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[viveks86]

Influencers, streamers, gaming media...

Hmmm... I don't see how this analogy fits the rest of your post. But I agree with the rest of your post, so I'll assume that's my problem

 

[diffusionx]

Considering it was just a February SoP, it featured several great games plus many other games that may not be top quality games and aren't for everybody but will be loved by the niche/player type they target.

They can't drop a dozen megatons here because they also have to fill the 'E3' SoP, the September TGS SoP, plus give something to the Doritos Awards and Summer Doritos Fest, plus also to fill a few other SoP across the year. And well, this is only for this year: they obviously also have to same games for other years.

Even in that case, Xbox and Nintendo fanboys would still say that it was bad. And the Sony fans would like that SoP but would complain because after it, in the next 2-3 years they wouldn't have any great announcement in any event (this time for real).

Well, the recipe you describe is the recipe for a show that got bad marks from people and leads to people like Colin whining. If Sony is fine with getting bad marks and getting criticized all over social media, they can keep doing that.

I didn't say a dozen megatons. I said one. If you can't drop one megaton don't do a show. Again, it's what Nintendo does and why people like their shows. It’s about putting on a good show. Like MGS3 Delta is probably going to be good, people are looking forward to it but it’s appearance on a show is not going to impress anyone because we know about it and have known about it for years.

This is how it is and why Sony keeps getting crapped on for these shows.

 

[Punished Miku]

All to hide the fact that their output is mediocre.

All smoke and mirrors.

I mean people are discussing rating the shows themselves. A giant part of that is how well made the shows are. The Starfield direct was probably one of the best pieces of game marketing ever made. Its practically a short film. Theyre just much, much better at putting this stuff together. Personally I found it very transparent with lots of gameplay and detailed systems explanation throughout the dev direct. The opposite of smoke and mirrors. Felt like an old detailed magazine article we used to get back in the day in film form.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I mean people are discussing rating the shows themselves. A giant part of that is how well made the shows are. The Starfield direct was probably one of the best pieces of game marketing ever made. Its practically a short film. Theyre just much, much better at putting this stuff together.

Fair enough. In that regard I gotta hand it to MS.

Then again, I prefer straight to the point and simple game announcements and gameplay.
Don't care much about fat ladies and guys with pink hair and a nose-ring jumping around a well-lit office on a skippyball, talking about how easy going the team is.

But to each their own, I suppose.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Hmmm... I don't see how this analogy fits the rest of your post. But I agree with the rest of your post, so I'll assume that's my problem

Gaming media, influencers, and streaming are heavily negative regarding PlayStation. It gets more clicks than being positive.

If your barometer for a good show is whether Bloodborne or Parasite Eve show up, that's probably not a great barometer, but the thing is Sony has to do something to break the perception. Even more so than winning game of the year and ongoing game of the year in the same year.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Gaming media, influencers, and streaming are heavily negative regarding PlayStation. It gets more clicks than being positive.

If your barometer for a good show is whether Bloodborne or Parasite Eve show up, that's probably not a great barometer, but the thing is Sony has to do something to break the perception. Even more so than winning game of the year and ongoing game of the year in the same year.

Sony doesn't have to do much other than what they are already doing now.

The average consumer doesn't give a shit about any of this nerd-talk and likely isn't even aware.

 

[Felessan]

That's fair to each their own. Imo it's a big step down over previous generations.

Or step up, depending on your point of view and expectations.

For example I play gaas for 25+ years and like them. For me PS3 was a step up from PS2 with it's initial experiments over mmo-like games, PS4 was a step up from PS3 when a proper online games start to appear on consoles. And PS5 is a huge step up as a flood of quality games come to platform, and I am very gratefull to Sony that it's actively work to attract live services like ZZZ, Infinity Nikki, Endfield etc to the platform

Another point - personally I would rather see ps2/early ps3 genre diversity than ps4 era high profile games that looks and plays pretty much the same. GoW and SM are good, but Returnal, Stellar Blade and Astrobot feels much freshier.

but the thing is Sony has to do something to break the perception.

Or not.
There is no bad publicity (c)
And these topics of discussion are highly divisive that keep attention on topic and thus Sony/games for a long time, profiting Sony given that games are not inherently bad

 

[mckmas8808]

And Concord was the biggest flop in their history having to be pulled within weeks all in the same year.

Two things can be true at once.

Their sales are great but they absolutely have a perception, PR, and marketing problem.

Is this problem more due to Sony being bad at PR and marketing? Or does it speak more to how toxic the internet is?

 

[diffusionx]

Is this problem more due to Sony being bad at PR and marketing? Or does it speak more to how toxic the internet is?

Nobody except the most hardened troll is watching these things to get angry and give it a negative review. Most people are indifferent. If Sony isn’t impressing a bunch of people who are turning in hoping to be impressed, that’s a Sony problem.

This isn’t even hard, last Xbox show got raves for NG4 and stealth drop of NG2B. And NG2B really isn’t even that good. Doesn’t matter. I’ll say it again it’s about putting on a good show, which is different from having a preponderance of good games that gradually increment the score.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Is this problem more due to Sony being bad at PR and marketing? Or does it speak more to how toxic the internet is?

A third option has joined the fray.

Or maybe how toxic some developers are.

 

[Luc2010]

Didn't watch it but based on what was shown. They should have just pushed this show out and wait for better shit. I don't cover for shit shows, but some of you guys do! LOL

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony doesn't have to do much other than what they are already doing now.

The average consumer doesn't give a shit about any of this nerd-talk and likely isn't even aware.

Or not.
There is no bad publicity (c)
And these topics of discussion are highly divisive that keep attention on topic and thus Sony/games for a long time, profiting Sony given that games are not inherently bad

Is this problem more due to Sony being bad at PR and marketing? Or does it speak more to how toxic the internet is?

I think the internet is certainly a toxic place more now than ever, but I do think they have a real perception problem that can and will and has permeated into reality.

I think online trends can/do have an impact offline. I don't think it was a fluke that Concord failed the way it did. I don't think it was a coincidence that the PS5 Pro got as much hate as it did out of the gates.

 

[KimDongHwan]

We are 4 years in and we've had 2 spider-man games, a Ratchet and Clank game, a Horizon game, a God of War Game, and a full fledged AstroBot game. Not even counting non-franchise tentpole type titles and new IP (of which there's a lot)

I'm not sure what you meant by that statement, exactly.

Yeah maybe the problem the way I see it, is that some of us played those games and were disappointed by their introduction of politics into them, so even if by the numbers they are still that many first party games they do not compare to having the Uncharted trilogy, The Last of Us 1, God of War 3, etc .

I wonder if the perception of how Sony was doing today would have changed if Sony would have focused only on fun for Spiderman, Horizon and God of War. Maybe the discourse would be completely different. Anyways my only hope is that moving forward they refocus on that. (But the new Naughty Dog game is already putting me nervous that the lesson was not learned at all, but only time will tell)

 

[Fabieter]

We are 4 years in and we've had 2 spider-man games, a Ratchet and Clank game, a Horizon game, a God of War Game, and a full fledged AstroBot game. Not even counting non-franchise tentpole type titles and new IP (of which there's a lot)

I'm not sure what you meant by that statement, exactly.

Mostly crossgen. Looking at 2013 ps3 releases i prefer 2013 to 2016 by an insane margin.

 

[Sooner]

There were several very impressive new AAA IPs.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yeah maybe the problem the way I see it, is that some of us played those games and were disappointed by their introduction of politics into them, so even if by the numbers they are still that many first party games they do not compare to having the Uncharted trilogy, The Last of Us 1, God of War 3, etc .

I wonder if the perception of how Sony was doing today would have changed if Sony would have focused only on fun for Spiderman, Horizon and God of War. Maybe the discourse would be completely different. Anyways my only hope is that moving forward they refocus on that. (But the new Naughty Dog game is already putting me nervous that the lesson was not learned at all, but only time will tell)

Those games are all fun and sold double digit millions

“Perception” …more like fringe warped perception

 

[Three]

People are just tired of the current situation, Sucker Punch released Infamous Second Son, First Light and Ghost of Tsushima on PS4, Naughty Dog released Uncharted 4, Uncharted Lost Legacy and Last of Us 2, Guerrilla released Shadow Fall and Horizon Zero Dawn. The only studio whose output has remained pretty fucking amazing is Insomniac.
At this rate if the PS6 does release in 2027/8, most of playstation studios will only release 1 big exclusive for PS5 in its entire lifespan, cross-gen titles completely fucked people's perspectives on game development and now they use any excuse they can to lash out on these big developers due to the ever-increasing development times.

And I won't even bother ranting about the aversion to risk nowadays, it's either sequels, remasters or remakes, new IPs seem to be a dying breed.

I can see that games are taking longer to make nowadays but which studio outside of Sony is pumping out games like the PS4 era? Most studios cannot do this anymore. It's silly to be upset about that while ignoring the games that we get at the shows from several other studios.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Mostly crossgen. Looking at 2013 ps3 releases i prefer 2013 to 2016 by an insane margin.

Cross gen is an irrelevant dig at games that have sold mostly on the new generation. Nobody cares that BOTW and Mario kart 8 were also cross gen

 

[viveks86]

Gaming media, influencers, and streaming are heavily negative regarding PlayStation. It gets more clicks than being positive.

I don't think gaming media has much of an influence on the mainstream anymore. Or even amongst enthusiasts as they generally are antagonistic to the media. Outside of reviews and actual journalism, their opinions/editorials seem to be quite irrelevant to most gamers. If it had any effect at all, it would show in PS5 sales, which as we all know, isn't plummeting. They are just click farming for a payday. But they don't make a difference.

If your barometer for a good show is whether Bloodborne or Parasite Eve show up, that's probably not a great barometer, but the thing is Sony has to do something to break the perception. Even more so than winning game of the year and ongoing game of the year in the same year.

We can agree on that. I don't know if we agree on how to break this perception. But the perception issue exists for sure. Not because of the media, but because of poor management of expectations.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

. I’ll say it again it’s about putting on a good show,

Showing 20+ titles is a good show. That’s more than 4.

While the developer discussions are neat, that’s not why I watch a gaming direct / showcase / state of play

 

[March Climber]

The fact that he has to talk about "nonexistent" negativity, it shows that the negativity is real and "massively growing ".

Gamers are winning.

…Winning what?

What’s the end result of this?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I didn't say a dozen megatons. I said one. If you can't drop one megaton don't do a show.

Saros is a megaton. Just as much as any of those directs you reference.

 

[Fabieter]

Cross gen is an irrelevant dig at games that have sold mostly on the new generation. Nobody cares that BOTW and Mario kart 8 were also cross gen

Its about output and sonys output from 2013 to 2016/7 was arguably better than 2020 to 2024.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Showing 20+ titles is a good show. That’s more than 4.

While the developer discussions are neat, that’s not why I watch a gaming direct / showcase / state of play

Now the narrative is that the Xbox show was shot with a better camera. lol

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Its about output and sonys output from 2013 to 2016/7 was arguably better than 2020 to 2024.

Not arguable at all really, in terms of sales and metacritic ps5 smokes it

 

[DeepEnigma]

Now the narrative is that the Xbox show was shot with a better camera. lol

Probably a Sony Alpha or another brand with Sony's god-tier imaging sensors

 

[AgatonSax]

I didn’t absolutely hate it, and there were games I didn’t know about that may interest me. But the format was dire; just a blizzard of similar looking projects with insufficient time provision to make a lasting impression.

It’s just astonishing to me that there are so many established franchises left rotting on the vine whilst studios endlessly rework the same gameplay cycle. Where is the market for all this product?

 

[Fabieter]

Not arguable at all really, in terms of sales and metacritic ps5 smokes it

Uuh so prefer sales over quantity and quality now. Fifa and cod best games confirmed . We also don't know how the games from the SOP will sell.

Output got worse tho.

 

[EN250]

Oh fuck off, Colin

I've been watching these for years, and this State of Play was indeed one of the worst.

Returnal was niche, and I doubt Soros will hit big numbers (I loved Returnal).

The other 1st part announcement was freaking *Days Gone Remastered.

Sony is relying too much on 3rd party lately

Another one who's spot on, Sony thinking they can coast the gen thanks to 3P games and GTAVI is bad for the consumers, idgaf when Sony does gangbusters if I don't get anything in return, exclusives matter, and not just moneyhats or timed exclusives

(*loved that game tho)

 

[adamsapple]

Am I having a Deja vu?

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

What people, including Colin, need to realize is that this isn't a Sony problem: it's a fundamental problem with America's shareholder-focused model of corporate governance that has penetrated international corporations like Sony. You can't run a competent business if you're constantly cannibalizing yourself to juke the stock price or chasing fads to meet some quarterly report. Sony needs to purge itself of all American execs and issue all business reports monolingually in Japanese in PDF format.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Uuh so prefer sales over quantity and quality now. Fifa and cod best games confirmed . We also don't know how the games from the SOP will sell.

Output got worse tho.

I said metacritic as well, you literally have no objective facts at all supporting your argument

 

[KimDongHwan]

Those games are all fun and sold double digit millions

“Perception” …more like fringe warped perception

My bad, I should have said that for me they weren't, for instance I have never in my life dropped off from a God of War game (not even the lowest rated ones) but GOW Ragnarok I didn't even reach the 10 hour mark I think. Anyways all subjective, and again only time will tell if this has any repercussions at all in the long run.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't think gaming media has much of an influence on the mainstream anymore. Or even amongst enthusiasts as they generally are antagonistic to the media. Outside of reviews and actual journalism, their opinions/editorials seem to be quite irrelevant to most gamers. If it had any effect at all, it would show in PS5 sales, which as we all know, isn't plummeting. They are just click farming for a payday. But they don't make a difference.



We can agree on that. I don't know if we agree on how to break this perception. But the perception issue exists for sure. Not because of the media, but because of poor management of expectations.

I think if you're looking for diminished PS5 sales that could be a lagging indicator, even MAUs are historically high. That's not necessarily what I'm referring to.

I think this manifests in a few different ways

• Lower individual game sales on games that can't break through with hype
• Lower sales of PS5 Pro than otherwise could have been
• Increased adoption on PC, Switch, mobile, and tablet especially with a younger generation especially with things like Twitch and Youtube

I think Sony is confident and perhaps overconfident that GTA6 can act as a reset and while I wouldn't say they are coasting like the other article, I do think they aren't trying to control the media perception around them as much as they probably should, which could result in lingering issues

 

[Punished Miku]

Now the narrative is that the Xbox show was shot with a better camera. lol

I don't have a narrative. I'm a person talking about what I think, personally. Xbox has some smaller shows like the indie show coming up on 2/24, but the Dev Directs do have great production values. As I said, they shoot on location which means they went to Canada, Japan, the US South, Texas and France. It's just a higher level production. I personally wouldn't have even brought it up, but other people were talking about it and comparing it directly to that show so I just responded with my opinion. I think it's just an enjoyable watch. They also made a South of Midnight Direct a few months ago that went into actual swamps for various shots, showed the recording sessions for the OST, showed artwork shots and other neat little bits.

On some of the smaller Xbox shows, they usually get lower grades but they sometimes have tiny helpful elements that still help the pacing and framing of the show. They periodically stop and highlight a chart of the games in a menu format with logos showing which is on GP, which is a new announcement, etc. Nintendo Directs do this as well. The E3 shows also have a different format with a lot more back to back trailers, but they usually are pretty highly rated as well. They just know how to put on shows.

 

[viveks86]

I think if you're looking for diminished PS5 sales that could be a lagging indicator, even MAUs are historically high. That's not necessarily what I'm referring to.

I think this manifests in a few different ways

• Lower individual game sales on games that can't break through with hype
• Lower sales of PS5 Pro than otherwise could have been
• Increased adoption on PC, Switch, mobile, and tablet especially with a younger generation especially with things like Twitch and Youtube

I think Sony is confident and perhaps overconfident that GTA6 can act as a reset and while I wouldn't say they are coasting like the other article, I do think they aren't trying to control the media perception around them as much as they probably should, which could result in lingering issues

Fair. But I think they need to work on something more important - fixing gamer perception and expectations. If that is solved, media will eventually fall in line as they will always pander to whatever the prevailing sentiment is.

 

[Shubh_C63]

I didn't say a dozen megatons. I said one. If you can't drop one megaton don't do a show.

This is where I am at also. All the games they show could be really great but they fail to make me excited for them right now, which means - Bad Presentation.

Also people wanting a first party report card from Sony till 2027 and then being angry why they are showing games so early without a launch date. GaaS strategy fucked up Sony's entire pipeline.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Fair. But I think they need to work on something more important - fixing gamer perception and expectations. If that is solved, media will eventually fall in line as they will always pander to whatever the prevailing sentiment is.

What gamer perception?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You can say the same in reverse for you guys

When Colin says Concord cost $400M adamsapple gets a boner

When Colin says this State of Play was one of the best ever, adamsapple gets soft

 

[Pedro Motta]

I don't have a narrative. I'm a person talking about what I think, personally. Xbox has some smaller shows like the indie show coming up on 2/24, but the Dev Directs do have great production values. As I said, they shoot on location which means they went to Canada, Japan, the US South, Texas and France. It's just a higher level production. I personally wouldn't have even brought it up, but other people were talking about it and comparing it directly to that show so I just responded with my opinion. I think it's just an enjoyable watch. They also made a South of Midnight Direct a few months ago that went into actual swamps for various shots, showed the recording sessions for the OST, showed artwork shots and other neat little bits.

On some of the smaller Xbox shows, they usually get lower grades but they sometimes have tiny helpful elements that still help the pacing and framing of the show. They periodically stop and highlight a chart of the games in a menu format with logos showing which is on GP, which is a new announcement, etc. Nintendo Directs do this as well. The E3 shows also have a different format with a lot more back to back trailers, but they usually are pretty highly rated as well. They just know how to put on shows.

They're the biggest 3rd party publisher in the world and they showed 5 games. If the roles were reversed and Xbox presented 30 games with no bullshit in the middle it would have been praised.

I get people are salty about Sonys first party output (I am too), but their ecosystem is way bigger than that, they have an obligation to their third party partners, to make money and to make them money, that's how an ecosystem evolves.

Yet, you guys wonder why third parties don't care about Xbox.

You're probably one of the 5 people that thought the interviews with the devs are cool and not time wasters.

 

[Punished Miku]

You're probably one of the 5 people that thought the interviews with the devs are cool and not time wasters.

Well I never claimed to represent anyone other than myself. I've always liked that stuff ever since LOTR on DVD and the 9 hours of special features. I literally just got Braid's re-release just for the commentary track.

 

[Fabieter]

I said metacritic as well, you literally have no objective facts at all supporting your argument

With puppeteer, sly, last of us 1, bloodborne, ratchet 2016, uc4, gravity rush, hzd, the last guardian, uc lost legacy, nioh 1 etc. Idk man.

Most of those ranked really high and sold well. If you prefer current output fine. I dont like it as much as previous generations.

 

[GudOlRub]

I can see that games are taking longer to make nowadays but which studio outside of Sony is pumping out games like the PS4 era? Most studios cannot do this anymore. It's silly to be upset about that while ignoring the games that we get at the shows from several other studios.

Not trying to argue whether it's silly or not.
The fact is, genuinely great AAA games are becoming ever more sparse, AAA gaming in general is becoming less innovative and more predatory each passing year, couple this with the gigantic development times and people growing tired of the situation overall and they'll use any and every opportunity they get to throw shit at big publishers.
Just a few years ago people were shitting on Xbox for barely releasing any AAA games on the new gen, this time it's Sony in the crosshairs I guess.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Fair. But I think they need to work on something more important - fixing gamer perception and expectations. If that is solved, media will eventually fall in line as they will always pander to whatever the prevailing sentiment is.

They got zero good will for Helldivers 2 and Astro Bot.

I wonder how short lived their good will would be for Bloodborne. If they did it without Miyazaki, I think it would be very short.

Gamers don't really know what they want either which is a problem in breaking perceptions.

I don't think the media will ever fall in line. Being negative is way more lucrative.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You can say the same in reverse for you guys

When Colin says Concord cost $400M adamsapple gets a boner

When Colin says this State of Play was one of the best ever, adamsapple gets soft

These are fun,

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

With puppeteer, sly, last of us 1,

If you’re going to be disingenuous and include late Gen ps3 games, then I can list ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 as ps5 games in 2020 as well

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

…Winning what?

What’s the end result of this?

isn't obvious?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Mostly crossgen. Looking at 2013 ps3 releases i prefer 2013 to 2016 by an insane margin.

With puppeteer, sly, last of us 1, bloodborne, ratchet 2016, uc4, gravity rush, hzd, the last guardian, uc lost legacy, nioh 1 etc. Idk man.

Most of those ranked really high and sold well. If you prefer current output fine. I dont like it as much as previous generations.

Kind of wild that you're counting TLOU1 here despite it being cross gen... Ratchet and Clank being a remake and a poor one at that. Last Guardian was started as a PS3 game... What sly cooper game came out for ps4? Puppeteer was also PS3... I'm assuming you're referring to gravity rush 2, though 2 scored worse than 1... lost legacy was derided as glorified DLC at the time.

This is what I'm talking about when I say gamers are lying to themselves.

 

[Fabieter]

If you’re going to be disingenuous and include late Gen ps3 games, then I can list ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2 as ps5 games in 2020 as well

Ofc do it its about output. I will still go with 2013-2017 any day of the week.

 

[viveks86]

What gamer perception?

There is a prevailing perception that Sony isn't releasing a steady stream of exclusive titles or presenting them in SoP/showcases in a way that sustains hype and goodwill for the platform. Whether it's valid or not is a different debate, but the perception exists. You may not feel it. I may not feel it, but it's there.

I don't think the media will ever fall in line. Being negative is way more lucrative.

Also true. In the end, I don't think they are that relevant anymore. Sony just needs to fix their marketing cycles and have their studios firing on all cylinders. They are primed for it for rest of the generation. They just need to deliver.