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[Bernardougf]

At the risk of setting myself on fire here. He's not completely wrong.

People are already starting on Avowed simply because we now know you choose pronouns in the character creator.

The obvious solution is if that kind of stuff bothers you, ignore it, play something else. Leave it for people who want it. There's more than enough games for all of us out there. No need to set fire to it because it hurts your feelings.

But we're not ready for that conversation.

Nobody is going door to door threatening little jon doe or his mother if he buys this game ... anyone making youtube videos can only show pictures of previews, say the game has pronouns and at most show the racist devs twitter message.

And everyone in this forum can only say "Ill not buy this game" ... and move on

So how exactly are we preventing the success of the game ?

At some point you people will have to decide if we are just a bunch of incels in our basements in our little sad forum or if we have the power to prevent the poor multi-billion company of selling their highly acclaimed product to the masses.

Hint .. the woke media and resetera and youtubers did the most to push up a campaign and cancel hogwards.... did it work ? .. well thats the power that cancelation campaigns have when the product is good and have mass appeal.. NONE.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Yeah... How about, No. Fuck off, David Jaffe. Fuck you and your toxic positivity bubble. Fuck game journalism. Fuck. You. All.

 

[polybius80]

One side is saying people who want to make games with the content that Veilguard and Concord shipped with shouldn't be allowed to make games.

nop, nobody is stopping woke developer of making games, while the other side directly call names, make campaign to "cancel" people and even black mail developers there its simply no point of comparison with a random person in a forum saying "they shouldn't make games"

One side is saying things like "Pronouns in fantasy games shouldn't exist". Those sound like restrictions to me. What do they sound like to you?

again, you want to pass an opinion of random poster as equivalent as the cancel culture campaign?, you are 10 years late, those arguments worked back then, "nobody is coming for your games" and argument like that, not anymore, the public know about black rock, the ESG and their list, the UN agenda, the blackmail, the bonuses to push the agendas,ESG people are so low life that people already know how anita sarkessian stole money, you are not fooling anyone people already know the bait and switch tactic, people will buy a game if its good and not if its bad, famous names dont work anymore, people learned their tactics and buy after looking whats in the game, want to make a woke game? you can do that nobody stops yous and if its good its will sell like BG3, but generally woke games are horrendous and as a result they wont sell, by their own lack of merits, nobody restricst woke game from existing while woke press attacks not woke games

 

[Panajev2001a]

The reason why I say we're not ready to have that conversation isn't me being a dick. I honestly think we cannot have this conversation because both sides thinks the other side is the worst thing in society and there are actors in both camps actively and needlessly antagonizing the other group just for the hell of it or because they're genuinely misguided.

I'm not talking about anyone in here specifically. But you know who those people are. The ones saying things like "straight white men gamers are ruining video games", or "DEI kills art".

I'll say that I disagree with most of the more vocal people on here when it comes to this topic. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. For the most part, I feel like we're talking past each other and cherry picking what we respond to(I've been guilty of this too). That's unfortunately what debating online has devolved into. The sad thing is nowadays if we disagree on one thing, we automatically have to dislike each other. Another reason why we just can't have this conversation.


We'll know around mid December when the November sales numbers come out.

I do not dislike you, I dislike that point you made and I will admit there is resentment because when some of us opposed the earlier climate of online mobs / “with us or against us” / “part of the problem or part of the solution” / and judge/jury/executioner approach to thought policing we were worried for the practice to become established and normal way to handle discourse and how it would backfire on people and genuine progress made on certain progressive ideals which were good.

When the “it is not cancel culture, it is consequences culture” defense for destroying people or businesses was used quite a few people could see the pendulum swing to the other side and how vindictive it would become, it was wrong to pull the pendulum that far and not expect it to swing the other way, not to backfire and it would help the conversation if people that pulled the pendulum and that helped to normalise this very extremist, divisive, and aggressive public discourse did reflect and recognise it was wrong and a mistake.

 

[genesisblock]

At the risk of setting myself on fire here. He's not completely wrong.

People are already starting on Avowed simply because we now know you choose pronouns in the character creator.

The obvious solution is if that kind of stuff bothers you, ignore it, play something else. Leave it for people who want it. There's more than enough games for all of us out there. No need to set fire to it because it hurts your feelings.

But we're not ready for that conversation.

And nobody is stopping anyone from wanting it, how are these criticisms preventing anyone buying the game? I don't get this logic at all.

 

[Pandawan]

Why is it so complicated nowadays to just call a bad game a bad game? It sucked, get over it. I blame the studio for delivering a subpar product.

Gaming companies and journalists have become too accustomed to the idea that games are just content that simply needs to be bug-free and feature basic mechanics, and that's enough to be successful if the publisher has invested enough money into marketing.

 

[Starbuck2907]

When a woke product fails, they blame the consumer - not their inability to deliver what the consumer wants.

Typical woke lib. This is what Disney said after The Alocyte failed and some political commentators after Harris fails to win. There is a long list of wokies blaming the audience or consumer for failures.

 

[Hyet]

People choose what they like first, then rationalize it later. YouTube opinionators mostly reinforce the latter. There's more blame to be put into the debut trailer and previews, but it's all rooted in the game itself.

 

[Bernardougf]

Gaming companies and journalists have become too accustomed to the idea that games are just content that simply needs to be bug-free and feature basic mechanics, and that's enough to be successful if the publisher has invested enough money into marketing.

I think modern western devs are just out of touch with reality... seeing the dialog and interactions in Veilguard it really feels made by people that dosent have a single idea on how normal humans talk, and make friendship and start/conduct relationship...

Its the ultimate result of having social awkwards woke safe space weirdos who leave in their bubbles writing and making games surrounded by toxic positivity.

How you are going to write the real interaction between a straight guy and a woman if you dont have anyone present who know how it works ? Only young blue hair feminists, trans, beta males, etc... or how you put real friends talk in games when you only have people that have weekly group safe space positivity therapy sessions and not real world talk friendship and outside experiences ?

 

[SkylineRKR]

When a woke product fails, they blame the consumer - not their inability to deliver what the consumer wants.

Typical woke lib. This is what Disney said after The Alocyte failed and some political commentators after Harris fails mod to win. There is a long list of wokies blaming the audience or consumer for failures.

They pretty much always blame others and everything. Its never about the product being below par. Its not even under consideration.

 

[GymWolf]

i am in 55 hours in and i can tell you that grifters have nothing to do with the death of this franchise. Vailguard is possibly one of the worst written game ever and it never stops treating the player like an idiot. it is incredibly shallow and sadly very dull.

Only reason why i am this deep in the game is there are few reediming qualities and i always listen to podcast when i am playing the game therefor i can ignore the most infurriating part of it: the dialog.

Acting is awful
Combat is repetative
Story is boring
Characters are idiotic
Narrative is insulting
Side missions are neverending

I like the art style and world design and i am obsessed with taash. The worst written character in existance, completely moronic baffoon, devoid of any self awarness. Hillarious mockery of wokeness, while trying desparetly to be ultra woke.

Traash is such a weird case.

You would think they would make her super likeable so you can forget her crazy shit for a moment, but she is by far the worst character in the game even if you leave aside all the woke stuff, she is just fucking terrible...

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Wellp,

• 6,425 players right now

I guess not even the LGHD4k+ community is into it.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

When game developers announce a shift towards a 'modern audience,' it essentially means the new target demographic is modern leftists. It means that they have abandoned their traditional, authentic audience for one more curated, synthetic.. you know, ideologically aligned. Instead of producing content that is tailored towards the demographics most likely to buy fun games in a particular genre i.e. fps, rpg, action|adventure etc, the content is tailored towards people that care more about representation, diversity and inclusion at the expense of all else. That's how we get games such as Concord, Dustborn, and Veilguard.

When people say that some game developers hate you they are not lying.

 

[Hugare]

The irony

Seriously

Jaffe is a grifter himself 90% of the time (most youtubers are). Just playing a character sometimes and making 2-3 videos about the same topic 'cause its popular recently.

Not a person that I would base my opinion on, imo.

 

[neocycle]

No. The game director is a man who pretends to be a woman since 2020, who added an unprecented amount of transgenderism into the game.

 

[Skifi28]

So, do we have confirmation it's dead? I'd love to see some sales numbers.

 

[tommib]

So, do we have confirmation it's dead? I'd love to see some sales numbers.

People talk about this game as if it was a Concord-level bomb. A game that peaks at 90K on Steam isn’t a flop or “killed”. Is it going to sell as well as Inquisition? Big doubt though.

 

[RJMacready73]

The Game has nothing in common with the previous entries so theres the original fanbase alienated, the game looked like an ADHD Fortnite fueled nitemare, there's the adult casual audience alienated, it has pronouns and gender politics slapping you right in the face, there's the normal thinking adult audience alienated... So who the fuck was the game for?? The purple tards over at Reeee, well good for them, they deserve it after completing Dustborn and playing 5mins of Concord...

Oh wait theres only a few thousand of the cunts and not the millions who would've been into this game If it wasn't so monumentally shite.

I hope Avowed suffers the same fate, it even looks like its set in the same world FFS, the sooner these Devs realise that normal gamers don't want this shit in their games the better

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

How you are going to write the real interaction between a straight guy and a woman if you dont have anyone present who know how it works ? Only young blue hair feminists, trans, beta males, etc... or how you put real friends talk in games when you only have people that have weekly group safe space positivity therapy sessions and not real world talk friendship and outside experiences ?

 

[drganon]

Or maybe people wised up after the two previous games sucked.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Ha had problems with modern GOW becoming too parenting but doesnt see an issue in a game that had badass magical demons that now sound like a professor and telling me how i should behave in public? lol

 

[GHG]

I knew it, you haven't played the game I tire of people going off what YouTube tells me to think.




So You haven't played it either... Says so much about modern gaming.

Want to buy it for us then?

In fact, scratch that, I'd rather not boost their sales.

 

[Clear]

Just to stress the point:

The fact of the matter is that decades of study of media influence have never found a "Monkey see- monkey do" causal link between messaging and behaviour.
Not even hardcore propagandizing can do this.

The way it works is that it confirms inherent biases and conceptions, manufacturing consent and acceptance through the perception of majority or consensus belief.

In simple terms, no "grifter" or "activist" is going to turn people off from "woke" or "problematic" content, if the person already wasn't predisposed towards that belief.

Its a meritless argument.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I’m not fan of either Veilguard or Concord but devs have every fucking right to make those games.

I also don’t like the idea restricting devs, they should allowed to make whatever they want but us as consumer also allowed to like or not like them.

They can make whatever they want, and we can criticize it however we want and choose whether to buy it.

Elon was criticizing the idea of having pronouns in a fantasy RPG. Not advocating to make it illegal.

 

[Outlier]

Gaffers.

The guy has released one game in 12 years. Drawn to Death which got a 56/100 MC rating.

His days of GOW and TM were literally 10 to 30 years ago. He's now a streamer looking for clicks. Leave him be.

Damn.
When you put it that way, I just feel bad for him.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Damn.
When you put it that way, I just feel bad for him.

Most of his recent videos only get 2,000 views too. Only time it really perks up is it's a super old post that's been around for years or he does a God of War video.

During the 360 era, some friends put up a website and YT channel for their game site. It was literally for fun and they did random posts after dinner. Lots of their posts got way more than 2,000 clicks. And they were total nobodies, never told their real names, had day jobs and sometimes didnt post for days as they're married and busy.

 

[Bernardougf]

I knew it, you haven't played the game I tire of people going off what YouTube tells me to think.




So You haven't played it either... Says so much about modern gaming.

So did you enjoy eating shit ? Or drinking piss ? Dont complain until you try it my boy. All those people saying eating shit probably is awful should not influence your decision.

 

[Boglin]

Have the anti-woke people started trying to get the game canceled, or are they scrubbing through the developers' social media accounts to find out of context quotes to get them fired and blacklisted? Or is it that the "both sides are the same" people are being disingenuous again?

 

[Calverz]

These guys need to realise that generally these games fail because they aren't very good. Veilguard, Concord to name a few. If they were good, they would sell regardless of the DEI stuff. TLOU Part 2 is evidence of this and Hogwarts legacy.

You have to be a moron to think these games fail because of DEI. They fail because they are crap games first and foremost.

 

[Astray]

If you dislike someone and don't want them to get power, then don't prescribe power to them.

These grifters are not magicians, they simply claim everything under the sun as woke for the slightest reason and proclaim how it will fail super hard.. unless it succeeds, then they claim it was never woke and is the example that every AAA studio has to follow (and likely delete past claims of it being woke).

This is not rocket science, and acting like these guys have any kind of power when they're all middling-to-failing youtubers is just nuts to me.

 

[Roni]

At the risk of setting myself on fire here. He's not completely wrong.

People are already starting on Avowed simply because we now know you choose pronouns in the character creator.

The obvious solution is if that kind of stuff bothers you, ignore it, play something else. Leave it for people who want it. There's more than enough games for all of us out there. No need to set fire to it because it hurts your feelings.

But we're not ready for that conversation.

We've had the conversation and we've run the experiment.

Cue the headlines months down the line:

Give game X a chance
X missed sales targets
Developer of X hit with layoffs
X developer shutting down.

 

[Loomy]

We've had the conversation and we've run the experiment.

Cue the headlines months down the line:

Give game X a chance
X missed sales targets
Developer of X hit with layoffs
X developer shutting down.

That is also fine. That's how it should work. Developers make what they want to make. If people want to spend money on it, they get to stay in business to make more games they want to make. If people don't, they don't get money. No disagreement there.

 

[diffusionx]

Crazy how people with literally no institutional power in this industry - people who post on forums, people who make YouTube videos, people who don’t buy this or that video game - are the ones destroying gaming and the people who literally make, sell, market, snd write about them are the victims. All the people who work for these companies are defenseless against the chuds and incels.

 

[laynelane]

What is a "youtube grifter"?

It seems to be a descriptor for people who disagree with or portray an opposing viewpoint to the one doing the "grifter" labeling in many cases. More and more I've noticed people attaching labels to others in an attempt to dismiss them rather than addressing their arguments. This is one such case, imo - it wasn't that Veilguard was flawed and several people pointed out those problems in their videos, it's that they're grifters - farming views to bring down an amazing game like Veilguard.

That aside, I don't like this line of thought because the presumption behind it is that the majority of people are so easily influenced by youtube videos that they can't form their own opinions on games. In the rush to defend some games from the 'haters', people like Jaffe can comes across as very condescending and oblivious.

 

[diffusionx]

We've had the conversation and we've run the experiment.

Cue the headlines months down the line:

Give game X a chance
X missed sales targets
Developer of X hit with layoffs
X developer shutting down.

You missed step 5, “chuds killed X developer because of their hatred.”

Like literally all we can do is not buy a video game but apparently that is too much. We have to want and embrace all this stuff. It all has a very 1984 feel to it, in that it’s not enough to say you love Big Brotjer, you have to actually love him.

 

[MayauMiao]

Yes, I checked. Its real.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[Ulysses 31]

Yes, I checked. Its real.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yes, I checked. Its real.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

But what if the post is funny AND bigoted?

 

[VulcanRaven]

Someone that doesn't believe what they say but chases the algorithm for views. Rightly or Wrongly being anti woke on youtube can get you millions of views today.

If you want to see an absolutely shameless example see andypants gaming interview with The Act man

They can believe it and still be a grifter.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Yes, I checked. Its real.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

This game and its white knights have evolved from a clown show to the entire fucking circus.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yes, I checked. Its real.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

iT wAS tHe gRIftErs



LMAO he Joker'd them

 

[Northeastmonk]

The dialogue in this game was boring. Sure, it’s advocating being polite and respecting pronouns. What the freaking hell does that have to do with Dragon Age or anything else they’ve made? It got so tedious and boring. If you told a bunch of random people that this game lectures you on pronouns they probably wouldn’t buy it.

As a fantasy game I’d probably never play it again. It’s just dull. The combat gets old and the bosses aren’t anything special. This is not the Brood Witch or even the same Ogre. This isn’t KOTOR or even Mass Effect level of storytelling. Veilguard has guest appearances and good graphics. That’s about it.

God of War had epic locations to travel to. Jaffe should remember this quite well. The build up to kill certain people in God War was huge. Veilguard has none of that. It’s like BioWare keeps everything at this safe level. No going out of the human condition comfort zone without being given a lecture. That sucks. That might be cool for some Political Science or Women’s Studies major who wants a “vidya game” to talk about in class. As someone who has gamed for 30 years. That sucks. That’s not on v-tubers.

 

[ikbalCO]

Traash is such a weird case.

You would think they would make her super likeable so you can forget her crazy shit for a moment, but she is by far the worst character in the game even if you leave aside all the woke stuff, she is just fucking terrible...

I love taash for that. They’re max cringe comedy. I can not wait to reach the end game and just kill them

Also im romanticising with taash and its as terrible as you can imagine.

 

[GymWolf]

I love taash for that. They’re max cringe comedy. I can not wait to reach the end game and just kill them

Also im romanticising with taash and its as terrible as you can imagine.

Yeah i heard her\him\helicopter death scene is particularly satysfying

 

[Team Andromeda]

So did you enjoy eating shit ? Or drinking piss ? Dont complain until you try it my boy. All those people saying eating shit probably is awful should not influence your decision.

Never eaten shit, but drunk cammel piss during a club 18/30 holiday in Ibiza (honestly)

But be sure if I was to recommend food or a drink I would have tasted it 1st...

I don't need YouTube help on that or gaming thanks

 

[Dazraell]

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Yes, I checked. Its real.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

... and we're supposed to believe these people are inclusive?

 

[Last Hearth]

So we know now the game is bust, after all the insiders said 'it's meeting expectations'

They were very confident this game would do well commercially. With the BioWare name clout in the RPG fandom, the past success of the Dragon Age franchise, the access media all calling this a “return to form”.
They were convinced the criticisms would fizzle out like the “boycott” against Hogwarts. They can write off Concord’s failure as “not established IP”, and they were ready to, after the sales figures come out,like JS said, “dunk on the chuds”.

This game flopping is causing some serious head turning in the industry.

 

[deriks]

Wellp,

• 6,425 players right now

I guess not even the LGHD4k+ community is into it.

Little secret: they never are. They only know how to scream, not what to buy

@thread

 

[Zug]

Well it's quite easy : if you don't want your game to stir political debates and get shit-talked on Youtube, then don't put controversial real world political subjects into it.
But these delusional people can't help it.