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[Zathalus]

They were pushing the more expensive $1600 GPU in that article as the better alternative though.




They were more concerned about the price vs performance of that particular 80 series card (this was Nvidias shrinkflation at play of making a lower series underperform but charging more). This is different to making the case that GPU prices were getting out of hand in general. The latter would have been bad for PC gaming and nvidia. What they did there though is push people to a $1600 4090 as the better alternative.

They were pushing Titan X at 25% faster rendering for $500 more than the flagship GTX1080 (which was $600) too.
If you did the same price vs performance with a PS5 Pro then it would be pretty good for Pro with 45% but they're pushing the "consoles future pricing is bleak". never once complained about the bleak state of GPU pricing today though.

Never once complained about the bleak state of GPU pricing? I literally just linked a review where they did just that. Being concerned about price vs performance is complaining about the GPU price.

I'm not sure how your takeaway from the article is doubling down they have have never been critical of GPU pricing when you have quotes like the following:

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4080 review: a powerful GPU with a big pricing problem

Compared to RTX 3080 and RTX 4090, Nvidia's latest is just too expensive.

Pricing is a different matter, however. It's simply too high, even at its MSRP baseline and especially so with some of the third party partner cards we've seen.

It's overpriced compared to its direct predecessor, the RTX 3080, which delivers two thirds of the performance for 58 percent of the RTX 4080's cost.

It's rewriting the rulebook in a way that simply doesn't make sense to the consumer.

However, the price premium is difficult to justify with pressure coming from so many different directions

Nobody cares about Titan or 3090/4090 pricing because the cards the majority of people buy, namely the 60/70/80 product stack had okay pricing. Once the 4080 went to a rather ridiculous level DF had no problem criticizing the price, as can be seen from the above quotes.

 

[StereoVsn]

What is this logic that if you are going to spend over $400 then you might as well spend $1000? Hell, talk yourself all the way up to $3000 then.

It doesn’t make sense for regular PS5 certainly, but once you get to Pro, IMO, PC is much closer in cost.

You are looking at $780 with disk drive plus say 3 years of cheapest PS+ for MP and cloud saves. That’s $1K right there. At that point, bump your budget by $200 and build a very decent PC.

lol....check MY post history. I really don't.

Topher is a double agent for both MS and Sony! He sells to Phil and Hurst, damn him!

 

[Orbital2060]

Bro, relax with your lame creepy stalker vibes.

If you must ask, Topher shot me a text asking me where I've been. Real life has needs. Racing season starts, and I am heavily involved with that. He mentioned that a few were asking where I've been and that the Pro news was dropping so I figured there is some semblance of gaming interest when it comes to advancements in hardware tech in the sea of gaming mediocrity in arguably the worst modern software gen ever (minus Elden Ring and a very very few outliers).

Its no wonder if people think you are shilling for Sony. You have made a ton of accusations at people shilling for Xbox, as far as I have seen. In various threads, fx in the MS/CMA watch thread. And yet you are doing exactly the same thing you accuse others of.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Its no wonder if people think you are shilling for Sony. You have made a ton of accusations at people shilling for Xbox, as far as I have seen. In various threads, fx in the MS/CMA watch thread. And yet you are doing exactly the same thing you accuse others of.

How so? Show receipts instead of feelings.

Show post histories compared to how they post. I have no issues calling out Sony when they do dumb shit, those I laugh at and do it in jest, still can't ever blame their favorite brand when fucking up and just move the goal post. All unironically repeating the internet narratives from the horse's mouth at the exact same time like a legacy MSM script.

Now again, compare posts and not your feelings.

 

[GHG]

Its no wonder if people think you are shilling for Sony. You have made a ton of accusations at people shilling for Xbox, as far as I have seen. In various threads, fx in the MS/CMA watch thread. And yet you are doing exactly the same thing you accuse others of.

The difference is that there was evidence that various people were (and still are) shilling for Xbox/Microsoft.

You want people to not discuss it when it happens? Why?

 

[Orbital2060]

How so? Show receipts instead of feelings.

Show post histories compared to how they post. I have no issues calling out Sony when they do dumb shit, those I laugh at and do it in jest, still can't ever blame their favorite brand when fucking up and just move the goal post. All unironically repeating the internet narratives from the horse's mouth at the exact same time like a legacy MSM script.

Now again, compare posts and not your feelings.

No Im not going to spend an iota of energy quoting all of your posts that accuse others of shiilling for Xbox. Everybody knows.

I just want you to know that you cant go around blaming others of being a lame creepy stalker, when thats exactly how you act yourself.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No Im not going to spend an iota of energy quoting all of your posts that accuse others of shiilling for Xbox. Everybody knows.

I just want you to know that you cant go around blaming others of being a lame creepy stalker, when thats exactly how you act yourself.

You just made zero sense. Especially in context to this conversation.

 

[Orbital2060]

You just made zero sense. Especially in context to this conversation.

 

[DeepEnigma]

One thing ive always liked about the PS fanbase was that they were never afraid to call out Jimbo, and other Sony execs making stupid moves. So its disappointing to see so many here defend this ridiculous price. But thankfully the overall consensus in the media and in the gaming community on youtube, twitter and reddit is that this thing is way too overpriced and hopefully sony will pivot once they see the poor sales like they did for PSVR2 when they dropped the price by $200 a couple of months ago.

Yep. That's my biggest issue with it right now, is the price for what was once considered more budgeted gaming. Some will find it meets their value, others will not.

Sadly, it's the inflation catching up to our medium, since price increases during the gen (instead of traditional cuts) should have been a sign.

 

[Three]

Never once complained about the bleak state of GPU pricing? I literally just linked a review where they did just that. Being concerned about price vs performance is complaining about the GPU price.

I'm not sure how your takeaway from the article is doubling down they have have never been critical of GPU pricing when you have quotes like the following:

You missed the point I was making. Complaining about A single GPU price and pushing readers to an even more expensive $1600 4090 is not complaining about GPU prices. This is not the same as complaining about the state of GPU pricing in general. It would be like me saying Gamepass Standard offers little value for money get the more expensive Gamepass Ultimate Vs complaining about "The bleak future of Subscription service pricing"

Nobody cares about Titan or 3090/4090 pricing because the cards the majority of people buy, namely the 60/70/80 product stack had okay pricing. Once the 4080 went to a rather ridiculous level DF had no problem criticizing the price, as can be seen from the above quotes.

And the majority of the people would buy what, a PS5 or PS5 Pro?

Yet they did not see or mention that the 4090s and Titans pushed those GPU prices up, for the 4080/70s too. They championed and pushed those sales. They didn't use the much more expensive Titan or the 3090 as some kind of precursor for "the bleak future of GPU pricing". Do you see the difference?

 

[NEbeast]

$1000 PC > $700+ console
$1000 PC = 500 console
$1000 PC < $300- console


If you are going to compromise on hardware, you might as well take it to the extreme and not spend over $300 on it and enjoy the games, where a $700-800 console is trying to be something it isn't... out of place in my opinion.

The two consoles that make the most sense currently are:

PS5 slim no drive
Xbox Series S

If you want to go above that, might as well build that $1000 PC

 

[Zathalus]

You missed the point I was making. Complaining about A single GPU price and pushing them to an even more expensive $1600 4090 is not complaining about GPU prices. This is not the same as complaining about the state of GPU pricing in general. It would be like me saying Gamepass Standard offers little value for money get the more expensive Gamepass Ultimate Vs complaining about "The bleak future of Subscription service pricing"

And the majority of the people would buy what, a PS5 or PS5 Pro?

Yet they did not see that the 4090s and Titans pushed those prices up for the 4080/70s too. They championed and pushed those sales. They didn't use the much more expensive Titan or the 3090 as some kind of precursor for "the bleak future of GPU pricing". Do you see the difference?

The Titans and 3090 did not push the price up for 80 series. The 80 series only started getting out of hand in pricing with the 4090.

As for complaining about GPU pricing, they have been rather negative towards GPU pricing a a new fair directs.

But we’re basically moving the goalposts at this point, you claimed they never complained about GPU pricing when they clearly did.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yep. That's my biggest issue with it right now, is the price for what was once considered more budgeted gaming. Some will find it meets their value, others will not.

Sadly, it's the inflation catching up to our medium, since price increases during the gen (instead of traditional cuts) should have been a sign.

Is it inflation or is it the constant need for growth and maximizing profits? Sony themselves said that the PS5 is their most profitable generation so increasing the price of the base PS5 in europe and japan 4 years in, increasing the price of ps+ subs, increasing the price of the controller, and selling a pro model for almost 2x more than what you sold the last pro model is a very calculated decision to max out profits.

I think MS literally bowing out of the console race mid way through this gen didnt help. They have zero competition and i had always feared this would happen. Nintendo no longer competes with them, and anyone who wants to play the latest and greatest blockbusters now simply has Sony or PC to go to and PC is way too fucking expensive even for guys like me who used to pay $2k every 2-3 years to upgrade.

If they are pricing out people like me (im not rich but not poor either) then i fear that they might end up paying in the long run. Last year, PC GPU sales were down. This year PS5 sales have been down 2 quarters in a row. Xbox is in freefall and still raising price to $599. PSVR2 was a flop at $549 but sold really well at $349. So not sure how sustainable this profit first model really is.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is it inflation or is it the constant need for growth and maximizing profits? Sony themselves said that the PS5 is their most profitable generation so increasing the price of the base PS5 in europe and japan 4 years in, increasing the price of ps+ subs, increasing the price of the controller, and selling a pro model for almost 2x more than what you sold the last pro model is a very calculated decision to max out profits.

I think MS literally bowing out of the console race mid way through this gen didnt help. They have zero competition and i had always feared this would happen. Nintendo no longer competes with them, and anyone who wants to play the latest and greatest blockbusters now simply has Sony or PC to go to and PC is way too fucking expensive even for guys like me who used to pay $2k every 2-3 years to upgrade.

If they are pricing out people like me (im not rich but not poor either) then i fear that they might end up paying in the long run. Last year, PC GPU sales were down. This year PS5 sales have been down 2 quarters in a row. Xbox is in freefall and still raising price to $599. PSVR2 was a flop at $549 but sold really well at $349. So not sure how sustainable this profit first model really is.

It's all tied together. Inflation will cause the price of goods to go up to maintain growth and profits. Look at how much iPhones cost now. MS was increasing their prices instead of lowering them, and they're getting stomped this gen. Nintendo will come out higher, cars are higher, groceries, utilities, rent, etc., etc..

We can't expect what was the largest inflation increase in the world's history, to continue the same pricing models. That is not sustainable, sadly.

 

[Puscifer]

What a fucking moron

 

[Three]

The Titans and 3090 did not push the price up for 80 series. The 80 series only started getting out of hand in pricing with the 4090.

Says who? and could the same not be said for console pricing then? Why would the enthusiast highest end console have an effect on console pricing in general for DF but somehow highest end GPUs did not have an effect on GPU prices in general? The former hasn't even happened yet but they're jumping to that conclusion. You've witnessed the 4080 price at least, before even going into causation.

As for complaining about GPU pricing, they have been rather negative towards GPU pricing a a new fair directs.

But we’re basically moving the goalposts at this point, you claimed they never complained about GPU pricing when they clearly did.

Nobody moved goalposts. I said "not a peep from DF about how GPU prices got inflated to oblivion". Once again, showing them pushing readers to a $1600 4090 because the 4080 gives less bang for your buck is not the same as complaining about inflated GPU prices in general.

 

[Zathalus]

Says who? and could the same not be said for console pricing then? Why would the enthusiast highest end console have an effect on console pricing in general for DF but somehow highest end GPUs did not have an effect on GPU prices in general? The former hasn't even happened yet but they're jumping to that conclusion. You've witnessed the 4080 price at least, before even going into causation.

Nobody moved goalposts. I said "not a peep from DF about how GPU prices got inflated to oblivion". Once again, showing them pushing readers to a $1600 4090 because the 4080 gives less bang for your buck is not the same as complaining about inflated GPU prices in general.

Sure, complaining about a GPU price and how it’s rewriting the rulebook to the detriment of the consumer is not complaining about GPU prices. Got it.

 

[Three]

Sure, complaining about a GPU price and how it’s rewriting the rulebook to the detriment of the consumer is not complaining about GPU prices. Got it.

So you're not going to address anything I said regarding the relation between high end and mass market pricing that DF are using on one side only and just go with the same article pushing a $1600 4090 as better value than the 4080 as a general complaint about the GPU market. Got it.

 

[Zathalus]

So you're not going to address anything I said regarding the relation between high end and mass market pricing that DF are using on one side and just go with the same article pushing a $1600 4090 as better value than the 4080. Got it.

Because it’s a silly take on the article. If your read on that 4080 review was that the conclusion was spend more money on a 4090 and not the blindingly more obvious point that the pricing is so poor and so detrimental to consumers that it looses the price to performance criteria to its more expensive sibling, then we are at an impasse.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4080 review: a powerful GPU with a big pricing problem

Benchmarks, analysis and more - the Digital Foundry breakdown.

www.eurogamer.net

Won’t hear a peep you say?

TBF, everyone and their mother on the internet were calling this about the 4080 long before it even launched. GHG went in on it, I believe well before prices were announced and called it.

 

[Zathalus]

TBF, everyone and their mother on the internet were calling this about the 4080 long before it even launched. GHG went in on it, I believe well before prices were announced and called it.

Yes Nvidia took the piss with the 4080 pricing. The 4060/60ti/70 cards were all priced alright, but they had other issues with VRAM and absolute middling performance increases compared to the previous generation.

 

[GHG]

TBF, everyone and their mother on the internet were calling this about the 4080 long before it even launched. GHG went in on it, I believe well before prices were announced and called it.

Want to know something funny, I ended up buying one for my secondary PC.

Would never tell anyone it's good value though (it's really not), but short of buying another 4090, it was the only card that suited my needs at the time for that rig.

Yes Nvidia took the piss with the 4080 pricing. The 4060/60ti/70 cards were all priced alright, but they had other issues with VRAM and absolute middling performance increases compared to the previous generation.

Yeh the VRAM is a large reason why it still made sense for me, and I'm sure most other people who also purchased one were in the same boat.

Nvidia really put the squeeze on people with the 40XX series, everything outside of the top two cards were severely gimped in some way.

 

[Three]

Because it’s a silly take on the article. If your read on that 4080 review was that the conclusion was spend more money on a 4090 and not the blindingly more obvious point that the pricing is so poor and so detrimental to consumers that it looses the price to performance criteria to its more expensive sibling, then we are at an impasse.

My take on the article was exactly what it is, them complaining that the price of a lower end card released later that doesn't offer as much bang for your buck as a more expensive 4090. Not your take that it's the same as them complaining about a bleak future for GPU pricing using high end prices.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I have yet to see them concern about the state of 4090 prices and what that spells for 5xxx series and PC going forward. And I bet there won't be concerns when MS drops a much more expensive box in 2 years or so.

 

[Topher]

You just made zero sense. Especially in context to this conversation.

Jesus man.....give them something. Start a thread lavishing Sony with praise for everything they have done this generation and make excuses for all the bad stuff at the same time, like the folks you've called "shills". You have folks scraping the bottom of the barrel calling you out as a shill for NOT posting. They are chawing at the bit here.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Jesus man.....give them something. Start a thread lavishing Sony with praise for everything they have done this generation and make excuses for all the bad stuff at the same time, like the folks you've called "shills". You have folks scraping the bottom of the barrel calling you out as a shill for NOT posting. They are chawing at the bit here.

 

[XXL]

You have folks scraping the bottom of the barrel calling you out as a shill for NOT posting. They are chawing at the bit here.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I was helping Cerny put together that stand-less system selling presentation.

 

[bender]

Jesus man.....give them something. Start a thread lavishing Sony with praise for everything they have done this generation and make excuses for all the bad stuff at the same time, like the folks you've called "shills". You have folks scraping the bottom of the barrel calling you out as a shill for NOT posting. They are chawing at the bit here.

I bet The Division Bell is his favorite Pink Floyd album.

 

[mckmas8808]

I have yet to see them concern about the state of 4090 prices and what that spells for 5xxx series and PC going forward. And I bet there won't be concerns when MS drops a much more expensive box in 2 years or so.

And it's so clear too. I'm surprised they don't try to hide it more.

 

[rnlval]

Funny fact
When PS4 pro got out for 400$, 1080 was 600$ msrp
When ps5 pro gets out, 4080 is 1000$ msrp
It's clearly a time when console should be replaced by buying a gpu /s

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=542,567&sort=price&page=1

Certain RTX 4080 models are below $1000 msrp e.g. $959.99 for RTX 4080 Super.

Never once complained about the bleak state of GPU pricing? I literally just linked a review where they did just that. Being concerned about price vs performance is complaining about the GPU price.

I'm not sure how your takeaway from the article is doubling down they have have never been critical of GPU pricing when you have quotes like the following:

Nobody cares about Titan or 3090/4090 pricing because the cards the majority of people buy, namely the 60/70/80 product stack had okay pricing. Once the 4080 went to a rather ridiculous level DF had no problem criticizing the price, as can be seen from the above quotes.

RTX 4080 (AD103, 76 SM)'s and RTX 4080 Super (AD103, 80 SM)'s main advantage over RTX 3080 Ti (GA102, 80 SM) or RTX 3090 (GA102, 82 SM) is raytracing i.e. Ampere's BVH4 with 2 triangles RT core vs ADA's BVH4 with 4 triangles RT core per SM unit.

In heavy raytracing, AD103 shows its strength over GA102.

AD102 is a different-level CUDA GPU e.g. RTX 4090 has 128 SM and RTX 6000 Ada has 142 SM.

RTX 4070 Ti Super has AD103 with a 66 SM scale. RTX 4070 (46 SM) and RTX 4070 Super (56 SM) have a lesser AD104 design.

 

[welshrat]

Interested in the numbers on this going forward. I know I bought a drive before I even ordered a pro and now some friends of mine have ordered one and are on back order for the drive.

Honestly I don't really mind Sony splitting production like this, it makes sense however I do hope that enough people buy drives that makes them think twice about digital next Gen.

Still haven't bought Alan wake or wukong due to no physical release. Will have to wait for a decent sale.

 

[ArtHands]

At this rate i wont be shock if they exclude the controller in PS6, and you have to buy it separately

 

[PaintTinJr]

If you take just their AAA games and ones where they sell for over $50/£50/€50 it is going to closer to 50:50 in main regions if not favour physical. Selling 10 copies via humble bundles isn't keeping AAA games funded, and the stats quoted are done in a way to be completely misleading for the digital 90% they want, not the reality, which is shown far more in the UK physical game charts which consistently trend with games succeeding and failing.

 

[Gaiff]

Pretty sure this was debunked.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Pretty sure this was debunked.

I've surprised myself by not getting sucked in by the Pro FOMO - and you know how eager I am for a PSSR console. I want for the tech update even at that price, but I just can't bring myself to buy any PlayStation console that doesn't come with a drive Pre-installed. It just feels like more Hulst and Jim infused failed thinking, where they lack the consumer perspective to execute on a vision that a consumer wants and accepts.

I still expect to buy a Pro and give in to FOMO, but it will be pretty amazing if PlayStation don't provide the right SKU for me and I hold firm to the end of the gen and skip it completely.

 

[Gaiff]

I've surprised myself by not getting sucked in by the Pro FOMO - and you know how eager I am for a PSSR console. I want for the tech update even at that price, but I just can't bring myself to buy any PlayStation console that doesn't come with a drive Pre-installed. It just feels like more Hulst and Jim infused failed thinking, where they lack the consumer perspective to execute on a vision that a consumer wants and accepts.

I still expect to buy a Pro and give in to FOMO, but it will be pretty amazing if PlayStation don't provide the right SKU for me and I hold firm to the end of the gen and skip it completely.

Agreed. It's the first time ever I ever bought a console without a disc drive. I'm also not a fan at all of the thing where you have to connect to the internet to link your drive with the PS5. Is that the same thing if you buy the model bundled with a disc drive?

I would have simply preferred a Pro SKU with a disc drive, even for $780. I hate that they're separate.

 

[Javi97]

I think that the best thing Sony could do for the next generation is to copy Microsoft's strategy but with a bigger budget.

PS6 "Series S" digital: $400
PS6 :Series X" Digital: $600-700

 

[Little Chicken]

The people hated him for trying to tell the truth.

The definitive Xbox Gamescom interview

Earlier today I spoke with Xbox boss Phil Spencer to discuss the company's future in video games.

www.eurogamer.net

Phil is usually redeemed with hindsight, people just don't want to hear it at the time.

Plenty of instances where Microsoft have said one thing that is met with ridicule, only for the competition to say the same thing five years later.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Agreed. It's the first time ever I ever bought a console without a disc drive. I'm also not a fan at all of the thing where you have to connect to the internet to link your drive with the PS5. Is that the same thing if you buy the model bundled with a disc drive?

I would have simply preferred a Pro SKU with a disc drive, even for $780. I hate that they're separate.

It will still need internet access IMO to download UHD-disc codecs like the PS3 did for various codecs like WMV that they paid for only for customers that activated the feature.

I'll be shocked - and highly likely skipping the PS6 - if a PS5 slim disc bundle console won't play games in an offline state out the box without the internet.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

It will still need internet access IMO to download UHD-disc codecs like the PS3 did for various codecs like WMV that they paid for only for customers that activated the feature.

I'll be shocked - and highly likely skipping the PS6 - if a PS5 slim disc bundle console won't play games in an offline state out the box without the internet.

Given that patches are pretty much a necessity, OOTB aint happening. I suppose it's possible they change the policy with PS6 but on PS5 you could stay offline otherwise on the primary console.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I've surprised myself by not getting sucked in by the Pro FOMO - and you know how eager I am for a PSSR console. I want for the tech update even at that price, but I just can't bring myself to buy any PlayStation console that doesn't come with a drive Pre-installed. It just feels like more Hulst and Jim infused failed thinking, where they lack the consumer perspective to execute on a vision that a consumer wants and accepts.

Again, Sony makes more money off of PC now compared to physical.