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[Belthazar]

Depends on how many gamers leave the PS ecosystem and go PC.

I don't know. PS gamers seem pretty loyal to the console and brand. How many of you PS4 or PS5 gamers will abandon ship PS console gaming and buy a good PC to play their games?

The brand loyalists are very vocal on the internet but pretty much a minority on the real world.

Yes, playstation is probably the most recognizable brand for videogames in the world and the default choice for many but... you can't ignore the guy who most plays his FIFAs and GTAs, but buy a playstation because they also think they might miss out on games like Spider Man and God of War. If those people take their business elsewhere Sony loses 30% of the obscene amount of money they spend on FUT and GTA Online. They definitely don't want that.

If that's their plan, which it very well may be. It's dumb. Very few people are gonna be so enticed by Days Gone that they drop PC gaming and buy a playstation to buy multiplats there. People like me are probably not that valued by Sony. I bought a ps4 last gen and played bloodborne, god of war, spiderman, odin sphere, a few other things. Never bought PS+ and never bought anything multiplat. THey are not making money selling hardware, or very very little. The money is in software sales and services. MS is making money hand over fist on steam and obviously Sony sees this.

I predict by the end of the gen we'll either get a Sony launcher and day/date releases. A partnership with Epic to make EGS a second home for their stuff. Or they just end the PC ports altogether. I really doubt they continue this slow trickle they're doing now.

I can only see them doing Day 1 releases on PC if they expand their ecosystem to the PC through a Playstation Store client (including selling multiplats there). But that would also take a hefty push to become a viable competitor in that space.

 

[DrAspirino]

Sorry but its pretty hard to buy that. Sony, alongside Nintendo, doesn't sell just games. They sell hardware as well. Making day one for PC would be an incredibly stupid move, devaluating PS5 consoles and acessories as whole.

Video Game Prices: When Do Games go on Sale? | Game Design Lounge | Video Game Level, Character, and Story Design

If you're like me, there are probably more than a few video games always on your wishlist. But video games prices aren't always accommodating…

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Using the same exaple on that site: God of War 2018 launched at US$60. In 2019, that same game retailed at US$29.58. If the game is good enough for PC people, they'll buy it at launch, as well as PS4 people. Instead of making US$30 per-game, Sony makes US$60 per-game.

And no, PC people don't buy consoles. Sony knows that, Microsoft knows that, and Nintendo knows that. Since the 3 of them know that, but also want to make money (let's face it: they're greedy), they'll want PC players money as well.

Remember, Saber: it's not about the consoles or hardware. It never was, and never will be. It's ALWAYS about the software.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Because it will take away from having a Playstation console.

Not being on PC has worked for Nintendo and Playstation, no need to change the model they have been using.

Its fine to make an extra 1-2 million sales a couple years later from 1st party games, but no need for it on same day launch.

It they do same day release, after while like it or not, 10-20% of Playstation owners will just move to PC where the rest of the games are cheaper and Playstation will lose out on alot of money they make on PSN store. People will buy cheaper 3rd party games on steam instead of the Playstation store.

And if it launch's same day on PC, people who already have a PC will buy 1st party PS5 games on Steam instead of PS5. Which means Playstation will lose a percentage to the middle man ( Steam )

Next there will be dummies saying it won’t make a difference if Playstation games will release on Switch and Xbox day 1, more sales blah blah blah blah… pretty stupid to think it wont effect the Playstation Console brand.

 

[FStubbs]

Depends on how many gamers leave the PS ecosystem and go PC.

I don't know. PS gamers seem pretty loyal to the console and brand. How many of you PS4 or PS5 gamers will abandon ship PS console gaming and buy a good PC to play their games?

Console gaming isnt big in every country either. But if that region has a PC focus, that's a lot of potential PC games sold vs. consolers switching over.

I've owned the PS2, 3, 4, PSP, and Vita. Right now I don't see a reason for me to own a PS5. A gaming laptop and a Switch are sufficient right now. Almost every third party game that skips Switch is hitting the PC I already own.

Of all things, if any company gets me onto PS5 it would be Falcom, but if their stuff continues to eventually see PC ports even that might not be enough.

 

[Lognor]

That's fine. I'll wait. I got to play hzd on pc. I'll get to play uncharted 4 on pc. I'll wait for their other titles to come. No need for me to buy a ps5. I know not all games will come to pc, or even most of their games. That's okay. I had no intention of playing uncharted 4 until it was announced for pc. Now I will!

 

[Hoppa]

I believe this will change in less than 10 years

 

[Saber]

Remember, Saber: it's not about the consoles or hardware. It never was, and never will be. It's ALWAYS about the software.

Stop fooling yourself. Its aways both of them. The reason Sony and Nintendo(specially Nintendo)are on the top is NOT only because of software. They both sell their consoles and acessories as well. Seriously, ask anyone if they would still buy a Switch if it wasn't for their games being close there, the hardware itself is not of much quality.

This is nothing but a daydream of PC users, nothing more. If Sony launch day one on PC theres no reason for the consumer to spend money on PS5, let alone its acessories(Dualshock 4 works perfectly on PC, no reason to buy a Dualsense in this case as well). Which btw is selling alot although not better than Switch, so yeah who cares about hardware right? They didn't born yesterday.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

PC releases of PS exclusives are 100% targetted at deeper penetration in China, non-Japanese Asian markets, and other growing important foreign markets like India.

It's the same with Capcom and almost every other mainstream publisher that sees the amount of potential money that can be made in those regions.

 

[Swift_Star]

Well, why would they? But releasing them a few years down the line makes total sense

 

[Buggy Loop]

Ever?

I mean... yea, that typically doesn't age too well.

Just how far back do we go for everyone to say you're batshit insane to think Sony will ever release games on PC to begin with? Not long ago...

 

[Portugeezer]

Shawn Layden clearly hasn't been on NeoGAF after a PS4 port is announced for PC.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

As kyliethicc posted last page, Sony already released a day one PC game - that recent Predator game.

No doubt, that's not a AAA game. It's barely a single A game, but you can see Sony is testing out releases.

Horizon ZD (PS4 release Feb 2017, PC Aug 2020)
Days Gone (PS4 release Apr 2019 , PC May 2021)
UC4/LL (PS4 May 2016 + Aug 2017, PC Early 2022)

So you can see the popular games they choose for PC are all over the place in terms of which ones and timing, which is no doubt what they want to do (not give gamers a predictable schedule they can guess). DG is a 2 year gap and most recent game. But Horizon ZD was the first game on PC, but an older game. UC4 is even an older game, but coming out in 2022.

Their next port can be anything from LoU 2 to old LBP3.

 

[lh032]

of course they wont, Sony still need to sell Playstation....

 

[kevm3]

He's right. Why would Sony release exclusives day one? Why would they undermine you buying a playstation? Microsoft doesn't care because they own Windows, so the more pc gamers, the more Windows users. Unlike Sony, MIcrosoft doesn't actually need you to buy their box to dive into their ecosystem.

 

[Saaleh]

Porting uncharted 4 instead of a collection is a clear sign that they are using these ports as [ads for the PS5] and for extra buck. If you are impressed with Uncharted 4, you would probably start to get excited to play TLOU2 or any new upcoming Playstation game. If you are excited for something that is already available [or coming soon], would you wait for it for another [year+] ? Probably not.. If you wait, sony/ND will get some money from you instead of nothing.. It's suicide if sony port everything to pc. It will influence everything [development and customer mentality]. Eventually Pc will catch up with the ps5 tech too and i won't need a ps5 and without their exclusives there is 0 reason for me to own a ps5 or buy anything in it. So sony will get less money from me. So i doubt sony is that stupid.

Sony is still in a safe margin of error. hahaha. This is a lot safer than the [greedy cross gen decision/sacrifice]. High gain for sony but HIGH sacrifice from consumer point of view. I would slap the greedy idiots who decided to implement cross gen, but i wouldn't for this topic. They really killed the mood for 2 years, cross gen = crossing the line ..

 

[Warnen]

few years ago they wouldn’t port there games to the pc period, never say never.

 

[supernova8]

Oh look yet another thread about Shawn Lyden talking about Playstation.

You don't work there anymore let it gooooooooooooooooo

 

[BaneIsPain]

Not. If they can make money even after years of release, better keep the same sop.
The thirst for good games is real for all systems.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

1) Are you sure about that? Because from where I see it, software profit maximizes the very first 6 months from a game release, and from then on is just going downward. If you want to squeeze as much profit as possible from a PlayStation Studios title, the obvious thing would be to release it day-one on PS4/5 and PC. Also, you have to consider that PC releases don't have any physical media, so Sony doesn't have to spend even a dime on physical distribution. It's a win-win situation for them.

Why do you think they bought Nixxes in the first place? To release games 12 months later? Ha!

2) Never, and I mean NEVER underestimate the greediness of gaming companies. They will change the distribution and release model as they see fit in otder to maximize their profit until Cloud gaming becomes viable in more regions of the world.

You take out the hardware sales in that equation. Sony wants to sell PlayStations to PC players. Sony began making money off of PS5 (physical) 5 months ago - which is a record for Sony - and the new 300 grams lighter PS5 Digital Edition is their entry to make money from all PS5 versions.

They bought Nixxes so they don't have to outsource their PC versions of games. You think Nixxes will be converting every 1st party title and will be able to release same day, as all the other studios? - nahh, sorry to burst your bubble - ain't gonna happen mate.

 

[Sorcerer]

Very bad business model to release games day 1 on PC, when you want PC players to buy a PlayStation. Those who doesn't buy a PS, can wait a year or two and get a better experience (maybe).
This is how it will work until everything is cloud gaming.

But what does it matter if Sony and Microsoft are taking a loss on the actual consoles? I would think it would only matter to Nintendo who will never take a loss on hardware. Wouldn't it be more ideal to sell your software without the console?

 

[bender]

I'd just port my previous generations catalog once new hardware is out if I were Sony. That preserves the value and appeal of your new hardware and let's you double dip on sales.

 

[Sorcerer]

edit

 

[sunnysideup]

Sounds like most games are going pc within an 2 year window of sort.

Ive been an console gamer for ages. Always owned all console. Last gen i did not buy xbox because it had no exclusives. This gen ill probably sell my playstation. Since it has no exclusives. Hardware boxes have little value. Software do. I always bought consoles because of certain software..

If i can just own a pc, that's is enticing in it self. I dont care about fomo day 1 stuff. I have so big of a backlog that i am always behind. I can wait a couple of months to play the definite version.

Comfy couch high end pc + steam deck in the bed. Is looking more and more like my future set up.

 

[Kagey K]

But what does it matter if Sony and Microsoft are taking a loss on the actual consoles? I would think it would only matter to Nintendo who will never take a loss on hardware. Wouldn't it be more ideal to sell your software without the console?

Double edged sword, you need to build loyalty to sell more in your ecosystem, you do that by creating software and selling consoles.

Like Nike would prefer you only shop at Nike stores to cut out the middle man, but they sell at Foot Locker and other shops to make sure their name is out there.

 

[DrAspirino]

You take out the hardware sales in that equation. Sony wants to sell PlayStations to PC players. Sony began making money off of PS5 (physical) 5 months ago - which is a record for Sony - and the new 300 grams lighter PS5 Digital Edition is their entry to make money from all PS5 versions.

They bought Nixxes so they don't have to outsource their PC versions of games. You think Nixxes will be converting every 1st party title and will be able to release same day, as all the other studios? - nahh, sorry to burst your bubble - ain't gonna happen mate.

You do realize that PC gamers won't play consoles no matter what, right?

If we, a bunch of business twats have figured out that long ago, Sony most certainly has. Right now, Sony is preaching to their own choir with their consoles (trying to convert all those PS4 users to PS5 users), but knows full well that strategy has its limits.

Microsoft realized that some time ago and that's why they don't care now where their players are, as long as they keep giving them those sweet monthly subscriptions. It's easier for a PC player to pay for a subscriptions for games than actually convincing it to purchase a console to play a bunch of exclusives.

So...the question comes again: why would Sony release their games on PC if they know full well they won't get a single console purchase from it?

Simple: software money.

So... Shawn Layden was removed for a reason, while they put Jimbo at the helm: Jimbo is simply the better bussiness man. Sure, it's a f*cking liar, an anti-consumer POC, not gamer at all...

...but he knows how to make money and rip us off, and THAT is what matters the most to Sony shareholders.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

But what does it matter if Sony and Microsoft are taking a loss on the actual consoles? I would think it would only matter to Nintendo who will never take a loss on hardware. Wouldn't it be more ideal to sell your software without the console?

Sony has made money from all their console sales - even PS3 made a buck in the last two-three years of it's lifecycle. Xbox has never earned anything from console sales. That's why Microsoft has changed their business model. Good for them - nice move to make more money. PC players won't be buying Xboxes - like always. PC players will be buying PlayStations - like always - and those who doesn't will (maybe) eventually be able to buy a PlayStation game for their PC.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

You do realize that PC gamers won't play consoles no matter what, right?

PC gamers play PlayStation like they've always done, lol.

 

[John Wick]

I don't believe him. It's a slow, but gradual transition into happening

I don't believe you. There is no way Sony releases day and date with PC.

 

[Kagey K]

You do realize that PC gamers won't play consoles no matter what, right?

If we, a bunch of business twats have figured out that long ago, Sony most certainly has. Right now, Sony is preaching to their own choir with their consoles (trying to convert all those PS4 users to PS5 users), but knows full well that strategy has its limits.

Microsoft realized that some time ago and that's why they don't care now where their players are, as long as they keep giving them those sweet monthly subscriptions. It's easier for a PC player to pay for a subscriptions for games than actually convincing it to purchase a console to play a bunch of exclusives.

So...the question comes again: why would Sony release their games on PC if they know full well they won't get a single console purchase from it?

Simple: software money.

So... Shawn Layden was removed for a reason, while they put Jimbo at the helm: Jimbo is simply the better bussiness man. Sure, it's a f*cking liar, an anti-consumer POC, not gamer at all...

...but he knows how to make money and rip us off, and THAT is what matters the most to Sony shareholders.

If you watch the actual interview at about 1 hour and 30 seconds Shawn says just that.

There is a 2 minute stretch there that covers the entire interview and the whole basis for this article.

Basically we are preaching to the choir and we have to get outside that circle. Doesn't mean PS games will come day and date but never say never.

The author Cherry picked what they wanted to hear.

 

[Sorcerer]

Sony has made money from all their console sales - even PS3 made a buck in the last two-three years of it's lifecycle. Xbox has never earned anything from console sales. That's why Microsoft has changed their business model. Good for them - nice move to make more money. PC players won't be buying Xboxes - like always. PC players will be buying PlayStations - like always - and those who doesn't will (maybe) eventually be able to buy a PlayStation game for their PC.

Well I am one of those pc players who brought Horizon, and I am grateful to for Sony for bringing it. A little bit harder for a PC player to want an Xbox as everything on Xbox is on PC anyway and there's always game pass on top of that.

 

[bender]

Sounds like most games are going pc within an 2 year window of sort.

Ive been an console gamer for ages. Always owned all console. Last gen i did not buy xbox because it had no exclusives. This gen ill probably sell my playstation. Since it has no exclusives. Hardware boxes have little value. Software do. I always bought consoles because of certain software..

If i can just own a pc, that's is enticing in it self. I dont care about fomo day 1 stuff. I have so big of a backlog that i am always behind. I can wait a couple of months to play the definite version.

Comfy couch high end pc + steam deck in the bed. Is looking more and more like my future set up.

And this is why I'd only release my back catalog if I were Sony. I'd be less concerned about trying to sell Playstations to PC only games and more concerned about atrophy of my current user base.

 

[DrAspirino]

I don't believe you. There is no way Sony releases day and date with PC.

Just like some people a couple of years ago that swore that PS exclusives would never come to PC...

....yet here we are.

 

[Kagey K]

Sony has made money from all their console sales - even PS3 made a buck in the last two-three years of it's lifecycle. Xbox has never earned anything from console sales.

*citation needed.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Well I am one of those pc players who brought Horizon, and I am grateful to for Sony for bringing it. A little bit harder for a PC player to want an Xbox as everything on Xbox is on PC anyway and there's always game pass on top of that.

I've bought every Xbox since 2001 - but just bought a nice gaming rig, so I don't have to have an Xbox anymore. I also have a PS5. Best of both worlds.

And sorry Nintendo, for emulating all your best games, lol.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

*citation needed.

Microsoft has never made a profit from the sale of an Xbox console, the company claimed in court on Wednesday.

 

[SantaC]

As long as jrpgs come to pc i am happy. Dont care about sonys generic western releases.

 

[Kagey K]

Microsoft has never made a profit from the sale of an Xbox console, the company claimed in court on Wednesday.

How is that calculated? Are they taking profits and writing off from carry forward losses? Or are they just continuing losses?

Did Sony actually make any money off the PS3 after wiping all the PS2 profits?

You make 2 very distinctive claims, but we have no idea about the accounting procedures done for either of them.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

How is that calculated? Are they taking profits and writing off from carry forward losses? Or are they just continuing losses?

Continuing losses. Earnings are only from software.

Did Sony actually make any money off the PS3 after wiping all the PS2 profits?

They never "wiped" the PS2 profits, lol. From 2010 they made profit from PS3.

You make 2 very distinctive claims, but we have no idea about the accounting procedures done for either of them.

How bout you start to backup your claims, instead of having me debunking yours

 

[Heisenberg007]

Would be interesting when the strategy was being developed.

He left in Sept 2019, and the first port was Horizon launching in Aug 2020. He was there a long time too. The PC strategy chat could had been in 2015 for all we know.

Horizon was the first "bigger" game, but there were ports/PC launches before Horizon.

Helldivers + Predators Hunting Grounds + Nex Machina, etc.

 

[Kagey K]

This is the same guy that says you need 5 billion/month to make gamepass work.

So it should all be taken with a pound of salt.

Even if he would understand the PS strategy better than MS.

 

[Heisenberg007]

From a business POV, Sony's strategy makes total sense to me.

• If they release the games on PC day one, they dilute the value of the PlayStation platform.
• If they do not release games on PC at all, they are missing out on easy money (Horizon port had an ROI of 250%), especially when their direct competitor is getting PC sales and revenue.
• If they release ports of games ~2 years later, they are double-dipping with no real consequences. Even if they port every single game, at any given point in time, PlayStation would at least have 5-6 big exclusive games. When those games are ported, new games take their place on PS as exclusives.
• After 2 years, PlayStation would likely be starting the marketing campaign of the sequel or the new game by that developer (assuming a 3-4 year dev cycle), which may amplify the renewed interest and lead to more sales on PC.

Now, whether this has any long-term negative effects or not remains to be seen. But I don't think there will be any big negative effects because of just how popular the PlayStation brand is.

Even if Sony ports 2-3 older games per year that, in total, sell 5-6 million copies at $60 each, that's almost $300 million -- enough to buy an Insomniac every year or to fund 3-5 new PS games.

 

[MaulerX]

That may have been the philosophy when he was there. But it's clear current Sony is slowly but surely prepping for day one PC releases just like Xbox.

Day one PC releases won't hurt one bit as they probably realized. People that want the console experience will continue to do so. Games going to PC is just opening your game to a new and broader audience which translates to more revenue and profits.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

From a business POV, Sony's strategy makes total sense to me.

• If they release the games on PC day one, they dilute the value of the PlayStation platform.
• If they do not release games on PC at all, they are missing out on easy money (Horizon port had an ROI of 250%), especially when their direct competitor is getting PC sales and revenue.
• If they release ports of games ~2 years later, they are double-dipping with no real consequences. Even if they port every single game, at any given point in time, PlayStation would at least have 5-6 big exclusive games. When those games are ported, new games take their place on PS as exclusives.
• After 2 years, PlayStation would likely be starting the marketing campaign of the sequel or the new game by that developer (assuming a 3-4 year dev cycle), which may amplify the renewed interest and lead to more sales on PC.

Now, whether this has any long-term negative effects or not remains to be seen. But I don't think there will be any big negative effects because of just how popular the PlayStation brand is.

Even if Sony ports 2-3 older games per year that, in total, sell 5-6 million copies at $60 each, that's almost $300 million -- enough to buy an Insomniac every year or to fund 3-5 new PS games.

 

[Robb]

Yeah, I doubt they’ll go for Day-1-releases as long as their own hardware is their main platform.

 

[ZehDon]

Microsoft is using it's multiplatform approach to offset Sony's domination in the console space. If Microsoft's transition into a first party, multi-platform publisher/platform holder works out financially, you can bet Sony will follow suite - their shareholders will demand it. Will it actually work out well enough to force Sony's hand? I have absolutely no idea.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Their investor deck said they are gonna do it for GAAS games.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Microsoft is using it's multiplatform approach to offset Sony's domination in the console space. If Microsoft's transition into a first party, multi-platform publisher/platform holder works out financially, you can bet Sony will follow suite - their shareholders will demand it. Will it actually work out well enough to force Sony's hand? I have absolutely no idea.

I disagree. I don't think shareholders usually keep an eye out on such minor details and how things are executed. They will be happy as long as PlayStation/Sony continues to be profitable, no matter how it achieves that profitability. Xbox doesn't reveal the division's profit numbers so there won't be any data to compare it with.

 

[ZywyPL]

As always, time will tell, but I'm with Layden on that one, the difference in the API needs additional time to port games to PC, unlike MS who is using DX12 and UWP. Sony bought Nixxes for a reason, but again, depending on how often Sony's studios will launch their games, Nixxes might simply not be able to keep up with the job date and day.

 

[kyliethicc]

Their investor deck said they are gonna do it for GAAS games.

Well, they said they're planning on a lot more PC releases. That's for sure.

Never said anything about timing, like if PC will be day 1, specifically.

"Release both on and off console" is too vague to know if they mean "on the same day" or just ya know, a bit later. Helldivers and Death Stranding both went to PC about 6-9 months after console launches. I'd expect a similar timing, especially if they are going to have Nixxes / others do the ports separately from the original developers. Tho I'm sure they'll do a few day 1 releases on PC, like they did with Predator.

 

[Fess]

In general PC gamers aren’t interested in buying a Playstation. That’s where their strategy is failing. I don’t think they’re increasing their userbase much at all. They’re decreasing the potential for hype at launch, by not reaching out to more gamers, and they’re doing it so they can get a small amount of extra sales on what is essentially a definitive edition later, which lots of console gamers are double dipping on.

I think it’s quite clear by now that games can reach further on more platforms. But they’re afraid of what it could possibly change if they bring down the walls day 1 on their isolated ecosystem so this is what we’re getting.

As a PC gamer with a PS5 it’s leaving me confused. Do I buy their games day one on PS5? or could I endure the wait for what will likely be a better version a few years later on PC? or do I double dip?