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[a'la mode]

I've always said it would take a generation for this to catch up to them. The effect was never going to be immediate.

In a decade the core reason Nintendo will still have the best margins of anyone will still be because they never budged on exclusivity to start the erosion process.

They have it today because they didn't budge 10 years ago.

Nah, that's nonsense. Porting old games to PC is not erosion of exclusivity, it's just that there are two kinds of people - those who understand what market saturation is, and those who don't.

Nintendo's profit margins are what they are because they sell cheap hardware at a profit (and the lower price makes it an appealing platform for many), where the competition pushes more expensive hardware out at a loss to drive software sales. Their first party games are not that expensive to produce either while they're still sold at premium prices similar to higher end platforms.

They could port TotK to PC right now and print money and they would lose nothing in the process, but Nintendo will remain a stubborn old goat, leaving money on the table.

 

[BlackTron]

Nah, that's nonsense. Porting old games to PC is not erosion of exclusivity, it's just that there are two kinds of people - those who understand what market saturation is, and those who don't.

Nintendo's profit margins are what they are because they sell cheap hardware at a profit (and the lower price makes it an appealing platform for many), where the competition pushes more expensive hardware out at a loss to drive software sales. Their first party games are not that expensive to produce either while they're still sold at premium prices similar to higher end platforms.

They could port TotK to PC right now and print money and they would lose nothing in the process, but Nintendo will remain a stubborn old goat, leaving money on the table.

Agree to disagree

Imagine if BOTW had gone PC. Their Switch business might not even exist.

Edit: Nintendo can't get away with selling their hardware at a profit as you describe without strong exclusive games.

How many people bought a Switch in addition to a PC or PS5 because there was no other way to play a Nintendo game?

 

[Fabieter]

Agree to disagree

Imagine if BOTW had gone PC. Their Switch business might not even exist.

Edit: Nintendo can't get away with selling their hardware at a profit as you describe without strong exclusive games.

How many people bought a Switch in addition to a PC or PS5 because there was no other way to play a Nintendo game?

It's about providing something unique to your product. I dont know what people don't get about it. Sony just thinks they can have the cake and eat it too. This will backfire big time with ps6. Nintendo is the only one doing it right tho.

 

[Puscifer]

Sony would kill for Nintendo margins.

I mean it's pretty easy when you only give your games 5-10 dollar discounts

 

[Fabieter]

I mean it's pretty easy when you only give your games 5-10 dollar discounts

Sony also give less discounts this gen and they still have shitty margins compared to Nintendo.

I buy Nintendo games regularly for 30 to 40 bucks on amazon tho.

 

[FewRope]

Keep then coming Sony, I want to play my games outside upscaled 480p

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

Bring Day 1 PC and PS5 releases.

 

[BlackTron]

It's about providing something unique to your product. I dont know what people don't get about it. Sony just thinks they can have the cake and eat it too. This will backfire big time with ps6. Nintendo is the only one doing it right tho.

When PS6 has a strong launch and sells out like every launch does people will already be flooding in saying we were wrong...lol.

Eventually it's going to get as bad as watching the spin and denial of Xbox fans (well, ok, not THAT bad)

Sony is just being arrogant because Xbox abdicated and Nintendo is in remission cooking. They "coexist" now but I see them being almost Sega grade existential enemies in the future. Only Nintendo will neither run out of money like Sega nor collapse under their own weight like Xbox. Sony would be wise to clamp down their brand in a defensive posture of their IP but damage already done. The least bad thing they could do is reverse course now, the sooner the better for their future prospects.

It has nothing to do with fanboyism whatsoever. It's just a straight opinion on what makes healthy platform business. I don't even have a PS5 (guess why).

If Nintendo lost a million sales on PC but that meant people had to buy their console. And then because they have that console, that's where all the Fortnite mtx happened instead of PS or Steam. Then their first party games did their intended job. And should stay firmly planted there.

 

[Fabieter]

When PS6 has a strong launch and sells out like every launch does people will already be flooding in saying we were wrong...lol.

Eventually it's going to get as bad as watching the spin and denial of Xbox fans (well, ok, not THAT bad)

Sony is just being arrogant because Xbox abdicated and Nintendo is in remission cooking. They "coexist" now but I see them being almost Sega grade existential enemies in the future. Only Nintendo will neither run out of money like Sega nor collapse under their own weight like Xbox. Sony would be wise to clamp down their brand in a defensive posture of their IP but damage already done. The least bad thing they could do is reverse course now, the sooner the better for their future prospects.

It has nothing to do with fanboyism whatsoever. It's just a straight opinion on what makes healthy platform business. I don't even have a PS5 (guess why).

If Nintendo lost a million sales on PC but that meant people had to buy their console. And then because they have that console, that's where all the Fortnite mtx happened instead of PS or Steam. Then their first party games did their intended job. And should stay firmly planted there.

I fully believe every publisher is on board with switch 2 from the start and Sony will see stronger competition than ever before. Will be interesting.

 

[TrebleShot]

Every day we dont have GT7 on PC we stray further from god.

 

[a'la mode]

Imagine if BOTW had gone PC. Their Switch business might not even exist.

You can disagree all you like, but it only means you don't understand market saturation and how it applies in this case.

 

[bad guy]

Edit:
It's just a joke, don't take it too seriously.
Or ban me, whatever. d:

 

[FeralEcho]

"Releasing on PC does many things: it reaches a new audience who do not own consoles – especially in regions where consoles are not as popular. The idea is that those people may become fans of a particular franchise, and when a new game in that series comes out, they may be convinced to purchase a PlayStation.”

That's not how things work lol How do execs not understand such a simple concept.It's Shu so I give him a pass cuz he's a great guy but think about it,especially when he specifically mentioned regions where consoles aren't popular. It literally goes against what they would be trying to achieve.

No one is gonna go against the "normal" in a region where consoles aren't popular.Especially if you bring over the things you'd buy the console for in the first place....what kind of logic is that

How many PC players played GOW 2018 and then went out and bought a PS5 for Ragnarok instead of waiting for it to hit PC?

I'm not complaining though,bring them all over,make my PS5 as irrelevant as it can be so I won't have any need to get a PS6. Sound plan Sony!

 

[RickMasters]

Soooooooo, Bloodborne is next, right?

I’d prefer GT but that can work too!

 

[hinch7]

"Releasing on PC does many things: it reaches a new audience who do not own consoles – especially in regions where consoles are not as popular. The idea is that those people may become fans of a particular franchise, and when a new game in that series comes out, they may be convinced to purchase a PlayStation.”

That's not how things work lol How do execs not understand such a simple concept.It's Shu so I give him a pass cuz he's a great guy but think about it,especially when he specifically mentioned regions where consoles aren't popular. It literally goes against what they would be trying to achieve.

No one is gonna go against the "normal" in a region where consoles aren't popular.Especially if you bring over the things you'd buy the console for in the first place....what kind of logic is that

How many PC players played GOW 2018 and then went out and bought a PS5 for Ragnarok instead of waiting for it to hit PC?

I'm not complaining though,bring them all over,make my PS5 as irrelevant as it can be so I won't have any need to get a PS6. Sound plan Sony!

It might convince some but I doubt would covert a lot of people to console if they were just playing on PC.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Imagine if BOTW had gone PC. Their Switch business might not even exist.

I have to disagree friend. Those games are emulable on PC from a long time ago and the Switch still is a success.

It's just different demographics, some people just don't care about PCs.

 

[RickMasters]

Whatever…. I had my turn with that hoe before steam.

 

[Brigandier]

Y'all forget how to spell?

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

But they release them way after and in some cases poor ass quality ports.

 

[RickMasters]

Every day we dont have GT7 on PC we stray further from god.

It’s true. Father forgive Sony for the sin of not announcing GT7 for PC.


Jokes aside I think we will soon get it

 

[Astray]

Online PCMR types don't want to acknowledge that:

A) A COD or FIFA-only person won't necessarily want to drop a thousand to play the exact same game with mostly imperceptible improvements.

B) A guy who has a 2060 machine may balk at the pricing on offer for new parts and will probably find it cheaper to pick up a PS or Xbox machine to play newer AAA titles.

As long as these things aren't acknowledged, the PC vs Consoles discussion will never get anywhere useful imo.

 

[salyonara]

Let’s hear it from the console fans who keep claiming the Playstation PC releases is selling badly/is a bad move

If it prints money it is obvious they will invest more, and I'm a Console fan and I support this, because for them it is just business. I would do it too. I hope they will port Dreams on PC, because on console we can say it is dead, and porting it on PC so maybe the console version will resurrect.

 

[Gaiff]

Because that one is GAAS and these games are popular on PC.

It has nothing to do with the game coming out day 1, right. Let’s miss the forest for the trees.

Agree to disagree

Imagine if BOTW had gone PC. Their Switch business might not even exist.

Edit: Nintendo can't get away with selling their hardware at a profit as you describe without strong exclusive games.

How many people bought a Switch in addition to a PC or PS5 because there was no other way to play a Nintendo game?

Nintendo is different because their hardware is complete and utter trash. There would be a huge incentive to play it on PC because even a bottom tier PC would provide a far better experience. Furthermore, you’re going with the assumption that Nintendo would have released it day 1 when they would have delayed the game by at least a year.

Your post fails to acknowledge two of the biggest reasons this strategy makes sense for Sony. The way you frame this hypothetical scenario stacks major odds against Nintendo that don’t happen in the real world with Sony.

 

[Gaiff]

Double post. Please delete.

 

[Negotiator]

Then port Uncharted 2-3 (including the MP) to PC.

They don't want free money?

 

[BlackTron]

I have to disagree friend. Those games are emulable on PC from a long time ago and the Switch still is a success.

It's just different demographics, some people just don't care about PCs.

Being able to emulate the game isn't exactly a nothingburger but I think there's a massive gulf between that and actually selling it on PC. It's like a literal ad to either skip the console or pirate it altogether.

Selling it is straight up working PC port that does not even require emulation, with marketing. It's something you don't have to be "one of them" to notice. I also don't want to deal with emulation hassles in Nintendo games. Despite having TOTK preordered I impulsively pirated it immediately. When I realized there were issues and glitches I only started it to verify the file worked and waited for my real copy, bad perf and all. But if the PC port leaked I'd probably have just played it and put my sealed game on the shelf.

There will always be a base for those easy Nintendo handhelds just like there will always be a base for the traditional easy console. Doesn't mean they can afford to rest on that while dissipating their competitive advantages. I don't think resting on that base is smart while "expendable" customers expand PC. Console is shrinking and PC is getting bigger. In the context that Xbox died Sony should be absorbing more of that. Console shouldn't be ceding so much.

If Nintendo released BOTW on PC a few years after release. Yeah it wouldn't have impacted Switch 1 very much, but what about 2? We could say it didn't matter because it still topped 100m sales, without knowing the other timeline where it had 135m. That's a lot of money in systems, services and mtx. I'm getting Switch 2, because I know they have leverage on me and haven't once in 30 years questioned the abusive relationship where I even buy WiiU day one lol. Even if Sony reversed course now, I'd question bullshit (like, you know, all of America's allies at this point, which is why I'm dumping my anxiety on video game posts.)

 

[Mr Moose]

They have their own porting studio who they have to pay anyway, so yeah, easy money.
Still a stupid idea that devalues the console though.

 

[BlackTron]

Nintendo is different because their hardware is complete and utter trash. There would be a huge incentive to play it on PC because even a bottom tier PC would provide a far better experience. Furthermore, you’re going with the assumption that Nintendo would have released it day 1 when they would have delayed the game by at least a year.

Your post fails to acknowledge two of the biggest reasons this strategy makes sense for Sony. The way you frame this hypothetical scenario stacks major odds against Nintendo that don’t happen in the real world with Sony.

Failed to catch this before above post, should have answered all at once. You have some good points which I half-answered.

 

[MISTER INVEIGLER]

When a company produces significantly fewer games, it is natural for them to prioritize porting their existing titles to a new platform. This strategy can be seen as a lucrative endeavor, akin to printing money. This approach has become a hallmark of remasters and ports for Sony, indicating a shift in their priorities. They no longer seem to be focused on setting the standard with new first-party games. It's a terrible time to be a hardcore Playstation fan.

 

[sono]

Add ps3 ports to kill it

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It has nothing to do with the game coming out day 1, right. Let’s miss the forest for the trees.

No it doesn't.
Forest from the trees missing is comparing totally different types of games to a GAAS one.

 

[Three]

I've said the same thing for years. You have....

1. PC gamer that doesn't own consoles and will never buy a console
2. PC gamer that also owns a PS5
3. Console only gamer who will never own a PC

The first example, you are losing money by not offering them games. The 2nd example, you might even get them to buy it twice. The 3rd is going to buy your games on console. It's win/win/win. You might upset hardcore console gamers that want exclusivity but they aren't not going to buy your game because it's on PC. It's easy money.

This mass hysteria is driven mostly by fanboys and platform wars. During the xbox 360 MS would port their biggest games like Gears, Halo, etc a year or two later to PC. Nobody was complaining about there being lost 360 sales to PC and MS shooting themselves in the foot, nobody was suggesting 360 is dying, nobody was complaining about literally the only place you had to pay MS to even watch netflix let alone paid online. Now though, because xbox is not doing that well with their different direction these things that made 360 a success are the end of the world.

 

[Negotiator]

As Switch 2 approaches, original Xbox designer says console power doesn't matter anymore because content is king, and he "would not have done things the same way" Microsoft has

"How they managed that brand and the story going forward is not my f***ing fault," said Seamus Blackley

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Negotiator]

Online PCMR types don't want to acknowledge that:

A) A COD or FIFA-only person won't necessarily want to drop a thousand to play the exact same game with mostly imperceptible improvements.

B) A guy who has a 2060 machine may balk at the pricing on offer for new parts and will probably find it cheaper to pick up a PS or Xbox machine to play newer AAA titles.

As long as these things aren't acknowledged, the PC vs Consoles discussion will never get anywhere useful imo.

$800 PS5 Pro makes even nVidia's mid-range GPUs a more attractive proposition.

 

[Radical_3d]

They have their own porting studio who they have to pay anyway, so yeah, easy money.
Still a stupid idea that devalues the console though.

That money will come back to bite them like it did to Microsoft. It’s insane how short sighted the bean counters are.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

"Old" Ps5 games.

 

[daninthemix]

When PS6 has a strong launch and sells out like every launch does people will already be flooding in saying we were wrong...lol.

Eventually it's going to get as bad as watching the spin and denial of Xbox fans (well, ok, not THAT bad)

Sony is just being arrogant because Xbox abdicated and Nintendo is in remission cooking. They "coexist" now but I see them being almost Sega grade existential enemies in the future. Only Nintendo will neither run out of money like Sega nor collapse under their own weight like Xbox. Sony would be wise to clamp down their brand in a defensive posture of their IP but damage already done. The least bad thing they could do is reverse course now, the sooner the better for their future prospects.

It has nothing to do with fanboyism whatsoever. It's just a straight opinion on what makes healthy platform business. I don't even have a PS5 (guess why).

If Nintendo lost a million sales on PC but that meant people had to buy their console. And then because they have that console, that's where all the Fortnite mtx happened instead of PS or Steam. Then their first party games did their intended job. And should stay firmly planted there.

“Had to buy their console” - just how important do you think these games are, exactly? As a PC gamer I simply wouldn’t play (and pay for) their games. No great loss.

 

[BlackTron]

“Had to buy their console” - just how important do you think these games are, exactly? As a PC gamer I simply wouldn’t play (and pay for) their games. No great loss.

I was referring to those people who actually did have to buy a Switch in order to access titles they want, not all the hypothetical that didn't.

If you're a person who would buy a Nintendo game on your existing PC, but wouldn't buy a Switch for it --

The marginal benefit of such sales must exceed the combined monetary loss from all those who would otherwise purchased a Switch, along with other things on it possibly once they have it. Or, it's not worth it, a bad move.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Minus Helldivers 2 the port sales have paled(and sometimes greatly) in comparison to the console version sales.

Irrelevant. They're making money off them.

 

[Three]

$800 PS5 Pro makes even nVidia's mid-range GPUs a more attractive proposition.

It's $699 and no nvidias proposition is anything but attractive in terms of cost.

 

[Kvally]

Same day = old?

 

[Gaiff]

$800 PS5 Pro makes even nVidia's mid-range GPUs a more attractive proposition.

Good thing most people buy the $400-500 models then.

Online PCMR types don't want to acknowledge that:

A) A COD or FIFA-only person won't necessarily want to drop a thousand to play the exact same game with mostly imperceptible improvements.

Not sure who doesn’t acknowledge that?

B) A guy who has a 2060 machine may balk at the pricing on offer for new parts and will probably find it cheaper to pick up a PS or Xbox machine to play newer AAA titles.

As long as these things aren't acknowledged, the PC vs Consoles discussion will never get anywhere useful imo.

The consoles offer about 30% better performance than a 2060 and don’t have DLSS. You’re practically sidegrading. The experience won’t be very different. The one big plus is the much larger VRAM on consoles, but a 2060 can play all modern games, so there’s little reason to move to consoles if you’re a PC gamer who’s fine with low-end gaming which most are.

 

[Three]

Same day = old?

You clowns realise that the majority are anything but same day, right? Their GaaS is and always was, even in the days of SOE but you weren't even playing their latest releases like Astrobot, FF Rebirth, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin same day.

 

[Jakk]

I've said the same thing for years. You have....

1. PC gamer that doesn't own consoles and will never buy a console
2. PC gamer that also owns a PS5
3. Console only gamer who will never own a PC

The first example, you are losing money by not offering them games. The 2nd example, you might even get them to buy it twice. The 3rd is going to buy your games on console. It's win/win/win. You might upset hardcore console gamers that want exclusivity but they aren't not going to buy your game because it's on PC. It's easy money.

This makes sense, but some people from the 2nd group might decide they don't need PS6 when it comes out and they will just wait for the PC releases. Honestly, I think that is a more probable scenario than people buying a PS console because they want to play a sequel to a game they played on PC. I myself have both PC and PS5 and I'm not sure about buying PS6 anymore, at least not day one. Sure, they can still get money from those people by selling them PC games, but on PC they can't sell you as many accessories, it's not their store and they can't sell you PS Plus, at least not yet.

 

[Astray]

$800 PS5 Pro makes even nVidia's mid-range GPUs a more attractive proposition.

And who says that a normie consumer even buys pro?

That's like saying all PC users buy 5080s and 5090s. Most people live in the midrange and below.

The consoles offer about 30% better performance than a 2060 and don’t have DLSS. You’re practically sidegrading. The experience won’t be very different. The one big plus is the much larger VRAM on consoles, but a 2060 can play all modern games, so there’s little reason to move to consoles if you’re a PC gamer who’s fine with low-end gaming which most are.

%30 is quite a sizable margin at $500 or less. It's even less if you go with a Series S instead of a PS5/Series X.

Guaranteed support and guaranteed basic QA also matter and add to the value proposition.

(And no, a 2-hour guaranteed refund window doesn't pay me back for my time and bandwidth spent downloading and doing my own QA on my own machine).

 

[Gaiff]

%30 is quite a sizable margin at $500 or less. It's even less if you go with a Series S instead of a PS5/Series X.

The Series S is also a lot weaker than an RTX 2060. That 30% is also not as impactful when one machine uses DLSS and the other uses FSR. Furthermore, you'd be better off getting a $500 GPU instead.

Guaranteed support and guaranteed basic QA also matter and add to the value proposition.

(And no, a 2-hour guaranteed refund window doesn't pay me back for my time and bandwidth spent downloading and doing my own QA on my own machine).

Paid online and the inability to play older games remove the value proposition. If someone is comfortable gaming on an RTX 2060-powered rig, moving to a console would be a dumb move. If they were on an GTX 1060 or some outdated computer, sure, splurging for a better machine would make sense. The RTX 2060 is very much a low-end current-gen GPU...but so are the base consoles.

 

[MMaRsu]

It’s true. Father forgive Sony for the sin of not announcing GT7 for PC.


Jokes aside I think we will soon get it

Last I heard Gt7 for pc is cancelled

 

[Physiognomonics]

They still believe they will sell more consoles with releasing games on pc

Yep, they are deluding themselves. And like printing money actually strongly devaluates the money, this is devaluating their IPs and they are actually selling less of them on console, where they are making more profits. We can all see their latests numbers now that PS4 sales can't hide PS5 sales anymore.

They are selling more on PC, but much less on consoles. Overall they are making less money from their own games even if their games are on more platforms. It was predicatble and predicted by many.

EDIT: They think they are going to make billions on selling their single player games to China? China will not follow western copyright rules and are going to hack all their Single Player games to oblivion.

 

[Fabieter]

Yep, they are deluding themselves. And like printing money actually strongly devaluates the money, this is devaluating their IPs and they are actually selling less of them on console, where they are making more profits. We can all see their latests numbers now that PS4 sales can't hide PS5 sales anymore.

It's short term thinking. They will see in a few years.

 

[yamaci17]

Good thing most people buy the $400-500 models then.


Not sure who doesn’t acknowledge that?

The consoles offer about 30% better performance than a 2060 and don’t have DLSS. You’re practically sidegrading. The experience won’t be very different. The one big plus is the much larger VRAM on consoles, but a 2060 can play all modern games, so there’s little reason to move to consoles if you’re a PC gamer who’s fine with low-end gaming which most are.

meh ps5 and xbox's performance advantage over a 2060 or 2060 super is completely redundant now in my opinion

1080p dlss quality will provide much better image quality and clarity than most of the performance modes on consoles. not that it is console faults but in most games I've seen, dynamic resolution drops way below 1080p and FSR just cannot do well with it. DLSS could always do it decently but now it is at a new level, especially in motion clarity

it is quite ironic if it was the other way around, you would see people using it as an argument of how PCs are bad and how consoles are so future proof. 2020 console hardware is stuck with horrible FSR. 2018 RTX hardware gets an enormous increase in image quality ESPECIALLY helpful at lower resolutions. yet none of these people care when good things happen on PC. they just want to focus on bad sides of it all the time

anyways almost all of my RTX GPU owner friends are happy with what they have. I don't see any of them moving to consoles or anything. 2060 super gets like 75+ FPS at 1080p dlss quality in indiana jones with ray tracing settings that are higher than series x (series x equivalent ray tracing settings are lower than low)