brandonh83
Banned
Right, I'm confused about how it's incoherent. It was a planet that was part of Starkiller targeting multiple Republic planets... how doesn't that make sense?
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Film Crit Hulk: STAR WARS: THE FORCE ALLUDED TO
- Thread starter Nerdkiller
- Start date
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Right, I'm confused about how it's incoherent. It was a planet that was part of Starkiller targeting multiple Republic planets... how doesn't that make sense?
I mean, we're literally introduced to the planet seconds before it's blown up, and we don't even get the name of the group of planets until after it's blown up IIRC.
The movie gives basically no reason to care beyond the brief shot of the people. None of the characters are from that system of planets or have any connection to said system. Compare to A New Hope where Luke and co. were trying to get to Alderaan and the Empire used it as coercion on Leia.
brandonh83
Banned
Hux literally makes a speech right before that cues you in on how they're about to blow the shit out of the Republic. I don't really understand why we needed to know a bunch more details about each planet or whatever. The point is that bad guys use huge super laser to destroy planets associated with the Republic.
I don't really need justification as to why planets being blown up is a bad thing. I mean, it's kind of a given.
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
I agree with most of his points. Movie was unsatisfying as fuck on a narrative level.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
He's essentially elaborating on the "drama-like posturing" feel that frustrated me and caused me to do a lot of ranting 6 months ago. I called it the Marvel-movie effect... A series of events that approximate the feel-good elements of a classic adventure movie on the surface (to such a degree that a large percentage of the audience is pleased by it), but lacking in believable and rich characterization. A bunch of action figures doing their impression of moments in greater movies. Hulk blames JJ Abrams' trends for it... Maybe so, but I think it's the same facimile of drama that causes me to turn off every Marvel movie before its 3rd act is through.
But I'm not mad at TFA lately. I rewatched it and had fun. But yeah... I turned off my brain a bit to do so. I don't think it has the core of a truly classic adventure film (on the level of Empire or Raiders, for example)... But it's fun to see those action figures do Star Wars-like things.
But I'm not mad at TFA lately. I rewatched it and had fun. But yeah... I turned off my brain a bit to do so. I don't think it has the core of a truly classic adventure film (on the level of Empire or Raiders, for example)... But it's fun to see those action figures do Star Wars-like things.
The Force Awakens isn't a film I was entirely happy with in the theater, and it grows weaker the more I revisit it. The moment to moment was mostly pretty good (with the exception of that dreadful Rathtar sequence), but the whole felt very hollow: from the characters to the plot to the warring groups to the story beats. I'm not sure what was worse: the main cast of Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren or just how poorly the Resistance, the Republic, and the First Order were defined. It's not at all what I wanted to see in a Star Wars film, and not even being that good a film in general.
The problem is that the audience isn't given much reason to care about the planets getting blown up because the film itself does little to draw attention to how it's supposed to be a big deal. Sure, you can work backwards to figure it out, but you shouldn't have to do that, and it's a signature failing of the Force Awakens.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The planet thing is the same problem as every blockbuster movie that assumes we'll care about a city being destroyed because "hey I live in a city!"
brandonh83
Banned
You don't have to work backwards or forwards to figure it out. It's spelled out clearly. It's a big deal because entire planets are being destroyed. You got some quips about Alderaan but I don't see how that makes that any better.
To each his own I guess.
But what does it mean that the planets were blown up? Was that all of the Republic's power or just a little bit of it? Does it affect the Resistance? Does it mean that the First Order is going to take over everything? That these questions are unaddressed, and that the planets are so abstract in terms of emotional attachment is exactly the kind of problem the film has.
You can compare and contrast with Star Wars and Alderaan. The Empire isn't super well defined in the first film, but it's obviously very powerful and fully in charge. Blowing up Alderaan has an immediate impact on Leia, and it was where Obi-wan and Luke were going to get answers. More importantly, it was a novel event - something that was outside of the expectations of the characters and perhaps of the audience so it does things on several levels. In the Force Awakens it's far weaker because we've seen planet-destroying weapons in the series before, and this one is old hat.
Jest Chillin
Member
I mean, so I guess you can not care at all about multiple planets being destroyed and billions dying...
But the reason it happens is to illustrate, very very blatantly, that they are evil. Pure, classic, evil with no redeeming quality. There is no "depends on perspective" aspect to the factions in this movie. That's the point. Don't see how people could miss that.
But the reason it happens is to illustrate, very very blatantly, that they are evil. Pure, classic, evil with no redeeming quality. There is no "depends on perspective" aspect to the factions in this movie. That's the point. Don't see how people could miss that.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So why would Han Solo try to reason with pure, classic, evil with no redeeming quality?
Vincent Alexander
Member
I saw TFA 6 times in theaters. Absolutely love it. Not a fan of the planets being blown up. What it is doing is introducing a ticking clock for the heroes---they now only have so much time to wipe out the base before it wipes them out. The problem with this is it takes a focused, personal story about Rey and Finn and zooms out to a more global scale. It wasn't a smart move because I don't care about the planets or the people on them---even if they were amazingly well-fleshed out. What I care about is the journey of Rey and Finn.
Jest Chillin
Member
He didn't. Kylo Ren is not the Empire.
But then the "good guys" go and blow up a planet. So.
brandonh83
Banned
First Order blew up a handful of Republic-centric planets. That's what it means. It wasn't the entire Republic, but it was still multiple planets. Not a good thing. The Resistance is a small extension of the Republic led by Leia, and they're supported by the Republic, so I imagine that it would affect them. It means the First Order probably could have taken over everything, but the Resistance was able to destroy Starkiller base which took away their planet killer and a lot of their resources. The First Order crippled the Republic. The Republic/Resistance then turned around and crippled the First Order.
You know... Star Wars!
Exclusively owned and operated by the bad guys. I didn't get the sense that it was some big planet with other life on it. It was literally called Starkiller base.
This is really what is wrong with Starkiller Base. It doesn't tie in at all with the three main characters of the movie (Rey, Finn, and Kylo). We don't care because the characters don't really care. They could have used the time setting up Starkiller Base to instead do something more important, like give Rey some much needed fleshing out.
Well first, Kylo Ren's pretty obviously not pure classic evil. He's just a shitheel.
Second, Han's human and makes mistakes based on his emotions. This mistake ended with a lightsaber in his gut.
brandonh83
Banned
Which was pretty much the entire focus of the film. When this stuff is being discussed or happening, the story is still focused on Rey/the characters in general. It doesn't really set them aside.
Except it does. Starkiller Base has nothing to do with Rey or Finn or Kylo. Their goals, their motivations, are completely unconnected with Starkiller Base or the impact it has. The scene where Poe blows up Starkiller Base falls completely flat because it's not an emotional climax, just a flashy effects real. In contrast, the final lightsaber battle works a lot better because it directly involves all three major players and their motivations.
brandonh83
Banned
I'm not following at all, but that's alright. I said more but I edited my post as I don't really want to get into it any more. Just not seeing eye to eye, but like I said that's okay.
Booker Dewitt
Member
Haven't read the whole thing, but was actually rewatching the film last night. JJ Abrams understands the importance of character moments, and then gets them to the bare essential so you get the jist, and runs toward the next action beat.
He can craft a great action blockbuster, beyond that though he doesn't seem to care.
He can craft a great action blockbuster, beyond that though he doesn't seem to care.
Aurean_Mentat
Member
Honestly, I appreciated this review a lot, because I will be honest, I didn't like the new Star Wars movie. I hated it for a variety of reasons, a lot of which are contained and better articulated in this review.
But what really stood out is to me is his point that the movie should stand on its own. I shouldn't need anything else to understand everything that was going on in the movie. The Expanded Universe should allow for me to go deeper if I want. Whereas this new movie seems to be asking 'Wasn't that cool?' and handwaving away any concerns saying that its explained in this book, or I need to go back and watch older movies, or it will be explained in a future movie.
That's not a healthy trend anywhere, because I struggle with the feeling of completeness. The feeling of having had a complete experience that I can then put down, or engage with further if I want to. But there's a very real feeling with the new Star Wars movie that if I read this book, or that comic, or watch that show or this other movie, that I will have that complete experience which will then allow me to put it down that the other movies simply didn't have. The feeling of being unfulfilled, of still being emotionally engaged because I want that complete unit, has frustrated me to the point where I'm just done with the franchise in general.
The Force Awakens works as a movie, but it only works for me as empty entertainment. Having seen it once, I have no desire to see it again, nor will I get half of a solitary shit whatever they do with the next movies. Because I remember how I felt watching the original Star Wars movies, seeing those characters, and experiencing its story, and then I look at this movie both attempting to claw at that 'nostalgia' button in my brain and attempting to use intertextuality to try to evoke those same feelings for characters and a story that on their own deserve neither.
Episodes IV - VI earned those on their own, and if The Force Awakens is in any way representative of Disney's new direction, then I feel justified in going 'I have all the Star Wars I want. I'm done, and not buying in anymore'.
In short though, I thought it was a very good, thoughtful review, and I can't say I disagree with any of it. Actually reading through some of his other stuff now.
But what really stood out is to me is his point that the movie should stand on its own. I shouldn't need anything else to understand everything that was going on in the movie. The Expanded Universe should allow for me to go deeper if I want. Whereas this new movie seems to be asking 'Wasn't that cool?' and handwaving away any concerns saying that its explained in this book, or I need to go back and watch older movies, or it will be explained in a future movie.
That's not a healthy trend anywhere, because I struggle with the feeling of completeness. The feeling of having had a complete experience that I can then put down, or engage with further if I want to. But there's a very real feeling with the new Star Wars movie that if I read this book, or that comic, or watch that show or this other movie, that I will have that complete experience which will then allow me to put it down that the other movies simply didn't have. The feeling of being unfulfilled, of still being emotionally engaged because I want that complete unit, has frustrated me to the point where I'm just done with the franchise in general.
The Force Awakens works as a movie, but it only works for me as empty entertainment. Having seen it once, I have no desire to see it again, nor will I get half of a solitary shit whatever they do with the next movies. Because I remember how I felt watching the original Star Wars movies, seeing those characters, and experiencing its story, and then I look at this movie both attempting to claw at that 'nostalgia' button in my brain and attempting to use intertextuality to try to evoke those same feelings for characters and a story that on their own deserve neither.
Episodes IV - VI earned those on their own, and if The Force Awakens is in any way representative of Disney's new direction, then I feel justified in going 'I have all the Star Wars I want. I'm done, and not buying in anymore'.
In short though, I thought it was a very good, thoughtful review, and I can't say I disagree with any of it. Actually reading through some of his other stuff now.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Granted I only saw the movie once, and it was awhile ago, but I was really confused as to which characters you were describing until I figured out that both of your descriptions are about Finn, I guess? Like, he was scared a couple times in the beginning, but I wouldn't have said fearfulness was a part of his character. Same thing with self-preservation. Wait actually I'm still confused. Is your self preservation description actually about Rey? She seems like she fits that better, her life alone on the desert is all about self preservation, but she wants companionship from her lost family.
Edit: Now I read in your post that yes you were describing Finn. But having overlooked that part of your post, my confusion was genuine.
thehypocrite
Member
He's right. TFA it's pop corn cinema taken to its most disgusting zenith. It's not a movie that cares about what actually worked on Star Wars. It concerns itself with surface level mimicry cause it knows the general audience was waiting with their mouths and their wallets ready to consume whatever had the name while displaying some level of competence.
Time won't be kind to that example of trite cinema.
Time won't be kind to that example of trite cinema.
TFA was one of the biggest disappointments, the fan service went too far into spoof territory. I hated the direction the story took. It was a mediocre popcorn action flick, but a terrible Star Wars film.
I don't get the love from its fans.
Maybe a fan edit could save this film.
I don't get the love from its fans.
Maybe a fan edit could save this film.
SomeRandomWeirdGuy
Member
I pretty much agree. I was really down on the movie before I watched it (primarily because of how much of an OT retread it was according to spoilers, plus Finn not being the Jedi in the end), but as I was watching it I found myself really enjoying it. I left the theater with some complains but I quite liked it.
Then within a few hours, as I reflected on it, I found myself really disappointed. And that only grew the more I thought about it. It really was all flash and nostalgia. It didn't feel like it was trying to do its own thing.
Then within a few hours, as I reflected on it, I found myself really disappointed. And that only grew the more I thought about it. It really was all flash and nostalgia. It didn't feel like it was trying to do its own thing.
Green Embers
Member
This is exactly my opinion of JJ Abrams. He is a mimic. Perfect way to describe him.
Okay, I laughed a bit at this, it reminded me of Alias. So maybe that's JJ's thing, creating a confusing mystery. Still think the mimic description is apt though.
And I agree with Film Crit Hulk on this. I enjoyed the movie but it really does seem to fade quickly after watching.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
That's part of the reason but the #1 reason was just to recreate the Alderan destruction scene but "bigger and better". Not only is it a planet sized death star, its shoots 4 beams at once! Problem is all the reasons of why you should care about those planets are in Hux's speech that he delivered a minute ago vs the importance of Alderan being well established(its the home world of Princess Leia and where Obi Wan was meant to take R2) long before it happens.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Also if we're talking about that laser scene will someone for the love of god tell JJ Abrams how far apart solar systems are?
I swear this is not a nitpick, its an actual problem with both his Star Trek movies and TFA, the way he presents space makes it feel incredibly small. Planets feel next door to each other, everyone bounces around in flights that take 5 minutes
If he directed Episode IV they would have literally seen the destruction of Alderaan from Tatooine
I swear this is not a nitpick, its an actual problem with both his Star Trek movies and TFA, the way he presents space makes it feel incredibly small. Planets feel next door to each other, everyone bounces around in flights that take 5 minutes
If he directed Episode IV they would have literally seen the destruction of Alderaan from Tatooine
broncobuster
Banned
A point the author touches on is being directed to outside sources to fill in those gaps. Asking that question in the past led to explanations on light speed space magic making it visible. Wouldn't know that from watching the film.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
I can't really disagree with much of what he says. I liked those Star Trek movies in the moment, but I remember almost nothing about them except Chris Pine on a motorcycle at one point. Also, jumping out of a window onto a space ship with explosions going on; I think that was the plot of the second one.
Force Awakens inspired such reverence, but I walked out of the theatre thinking "that's it? Huh." It just felt like a bunch of Star Wars stuff in a row...this seemed to resonate with enough people, but it felt like a bunch of vaguely empty callbacks to me. And he's right, the characters' competency and confidence are completely unearned. They're just relatable down on their luck regular everypeople who are suddenly elite level at everything and capable of facing down armies because...yay heroism and empowerment? The original movie did that as well, but it didn't have Leia running around open battlefields or Luke holding his own against Vader right away; that came later, when we could expect the characters to have gained more competency.
Force Awakens inspired such reverence, but I walked out of the theatre thinking "that's it? Huh." It just felt like a bunch of Star Wars stuff in a row...this seemed to resonate with enough people, but it felt like a bunch of vaguely empty callbacks to me. And he's right, the characters' competency and confidence are completely unearned. They're just relatable down on their luck regular everypeople who are suddenly elite level at everything and capable of facing down armies because...yay heroism and empowerment? The original movie did that as well, but it didn't have Leia running around open battlefields or Luke holding his own against Vader right away; that came later, when we could expect the characters to have gained more competency.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Well Luke does go from driving the equivalent of a moped to surviving an intense space battle in three dimensions that claims the lives of almost every skilled rebel pilot.
SomeRandomWeirdGuy
Member
Luke flew the T-16, not just the landspeeder. So he was at least kinda experienced
Mr. Pointy
Member
I think you can ultimately boil down a lot of the problems people have with Rey, Finn, etc. to the fact that TFA is structured as the first part of a trilogy. A lot of Rey's backstory and characterisation is pretty much sequel bait. There are elements within TFA will probably be looked at in a slightly different light once VIII and IX are out.
While ANH is probably the only standalone film in the series. There are small sequel hooks in it, but the film is not reliant on needing ESB to hold itself up. You have to remember that Star Wars wasn't a sure thing back in '77. If it bombed back then, we'd only ever have ANH.
I've read a couple of Film Crit Hulk's arguments, and I have to agree, his shtick is annoying and it makes him a chore to read. Which I think tends to make his arguments go in one ear and out the other, which dilutes my ability to agree or disagree with them, because if I'm not putting 120% effort into reading him, it's as if I don't give a shit.
In this instance, I think reading him wasn't worth the effort. I don't think JJ is a perfect director, and I'm fine with people criticizing him/TFA, but I don't (currently) think his shortcomings are that big of a deal. At worst I think he's "not that bad".
I disagree with FCH on the oldschool Star Wars fanservice getting in the way of the movie. I think it was vital for JJ to draw a line connecting the Original Trilogy to the new Sequel Trilogy, in order to flush the Prequel Trilogy and bring the franchise back around again. You can't just make a great Star Wars movie that stands on it's own (if such a thing was even possible for JJ), because of the context of the franchise, it's history, and it's new owners. Fanservice was the right call.
I think Finn has some immediate character shorthand built into him, because he's a Stormtrooper. We've seen them everywhere and now we're looking at a humanized one.
When Finn went through that first battle with a bloody handprint on his face, and refused to shoot anyone (prompting his CO to assume his gun was broken, potentially getting him in deep trouble for dereliction of duty), I think it brought home the gritty reality of a Stormtrooper. I was reminded of something I've heard about drafted rookie soldiers, and how on their first day they always miss their kills on purpose.
One definition I like is that courage is the ability to do the right thing in the face of fear. If someone's not afraid, that's fearlessness, not courage. You need fear in order to have courage. Finn was clearly terrified, hyperventilating when he took off his helmet, but he put one foot in front of another and moved forward and rescued Poe Dameron so they could both get away together. Finn pretended to be a hero, but with his job done, he wanted to run away, and he wanted Rey to run with him. Rey wouldn't run, so Finn left her and ran. But then when she got caught, he overcame his fear and went after her. He faced down a Sith Lord and took a beating, which bought Rey time to get back up. Finn's great.
I don't believe Rey is a Mary Sue, but I think she's overpowered. Some of it was perhaps-misplaced female empowerment (not needing to be rescued by Finn), while some things like beating Kylo Ren's Force powers (twice) and Jedi-mind-tricking the guards felt unearned. Some things about her work though, like how effortless it was for her to steal the Falcon and escape. Finn was trapped with the Stormtroopers because he didn't have the means to escape. Rey had all the means in the world to escape (by way of working salvage, making her familiar with the pile of junk which is the Falcon), but she was mentally trapped working in a shithole, because she was left there by her parents, and she's still just a little girl waiting there for them to come back.
In this instance, I think reading him wasn't worth the effort. I don't think JJ is a perfect director, and I'm fine with people criticizing him/TFA, but I don't (currently) think his shortcomings are that big of a deal. At worst I think he's "not that bad".
I disagree with FCH on the oldschool Star Wars fanservice getting in the way of the movie. I think it was vital for JJ to draw a line connecting the Original Trilogy to the new Sequel Trilogy, in order to flush the Prequel Trilogy and bring the franchise back around again. You can't just make a great Star Wars movie that stands on it's own (if such a thing was even possible for JJ), because of the context of the franchise, it's history, and it's new owners. Fanservice was the right call.
I think Finn has some immediate character shorthand built into him, because he's a Stormtrooper. We've seen them everywhere and now we're looking at a humanized one.
When Finn went through that first battle with a bloody handprint on his face, and refused to shoot anyone (prompting his CO to assume his gun was broken, potentially getting him in deep trouble for dereliction of duty), I think it brought home the gritty reality of a Stormtrooper. I was reminded of something I've heard about drafted rookie soldiers, and how on their first day they always miss their kills on purpose.
One definition I like is that courage is the ability to do the right thing in the face of fear. If someone's not afraid, that's fearlessness, not courage. You need fear in order to have courage. Finn was clearly terrified, hyperventilating when he took off his helmet, but he put one foot in front of another and moved forward and rescued Poe Dameron so they could both get away together. Finn pretended to be a hero, but with his job done, he wanted to run away, and he wanted Rey to run with him. Rey wouldn't run, so Finn left her and ran. But then when she got caught, he overcame his fear and went after her. He faced down a Sith Lord and took a beating, which bought Rey time to get back up. Finn's great.
I don't believe Rey is a Mary Sue, but I think she's overpowered. Some of it was perhaps-misplaced female empowerment (not needing to be rescued by Finn), while some things like beating Kylo Ren's Force powers (twice) and Jedi-mind-tricking the guards felt unearned. Some things about her work though, like how effortless it was for her to steal the Falcon and escape. Finn was trapped with the Stormtroopers because he didn't have the means to escape. Rey had all the means in the world to escape (by way of working salvage, making her familiar with the pile of junk which is the Falcon), but she was mentally trapped working in a shithole, because she was left there by her parents, and she's still just a little girl waiting there for them to come back.
not psycho
Member
J.J. Abrams and Zack Snyder make me feel like I hate movies. But I actually like most of what I see... they're the exceptions.
I haven't seen Stars Wars yet, and I doubt I could be fair to it (just knowing who directed it makes me angry before it starts). Since I'm not intending to be fair, I may as well assume I'd agree with Hulk.
I haven't seen Stars Wars yet, and I doubt I could be fair to it (just knowing who directed it makes me angry before it starts). Since I'm not intending to be fair, I may as well assume I'd agree with Hulk.
The movie's end result as a $200 million fan film was an absolute inevitability once it was announced that JJ Abrams was directing it.
For once though, and in the moment, I found that TFA might have been what the franchise needed at that point though. Just a good old fashioned "tribute" to ease the lapsed fans back into the series before it can forge it's own path. The cinematic experience was definitely elating and enjoyable.
Problem is I don't find myself wanting to rewatch it at all with so many of it's layers that assumes investment (most of these entirely being by the hands of Rey) and despite being an enjoyable movie in it's own right it's probably going to be the most boring one in subsequent marathons.
It's basically Episode IV but with too much self-awareness, not just over being aware of that itself but also over the fact that it's actually getting more sequels; a fact which feels as if it's being sledgehammered onto the audience over the course of the movie (again, with almost all of the pivotal scenes exhibiting this being about Rey). It shows that it knows what the people want but not necessarily what the people need.
For once though, and in the moment, I found that TFA might have been what the franchise needed at that point though. Just a good old fashioned "tribute" to ease the lapsed fans back into the series before it can forge it's own path. The cinematic experience was definitely elating and enjoyable.
Problem is I don't find myself wanting to rewatch it at all with so many of it's layers that assumes investment (most of these entirely being by the hands of Rey) and despite being an enjoyable movie in it's own right it's probably going to be the most boring one in subsequent marathons.
It's basically Episode IV but with too much self-awareness, not just over being aware of that itself but also over the fact that it's actually getting more sequels; a fact which feels as if it's being sledgehammered onto the audience over the course of the movie (again, with almost all of the pivotal scenes exhibiting this being about Rey). It shows that it knows what the people want but not necessarily what the people need.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I think the sole reason why Finn is a Stormtrooper is because it's "cool." We haven't seen a Stormtrooper work for the good guys. It's a novel idea, but it's never really explored. We don't see him struggle with his identity and he's been a stormtrooper all of his life up until the beginning of the movie. It was definitely something that disappointed me.
I didn't feel the gritty reality of being a Stormtrooper. We don't see how they live or act when they're out of uniform. We just see them acting out orders. And I wanted to see that. I wanted to see how they go about their days, but we only get allusions to it. They're plucked from their families at birth. They're "programmed" by the First Order. Instead of telling us, show us!
Finn was a wasted opportunity.
It's not just that planets are being destroyed, but why were those planets destroyed? We didn't even know of their existence until the moments before their destruction and we didn't even know their names until AFTER. That's not how you get people emotionally involved with events like that.
Hosnian had no direct bearing on our main characters other it just being another cliche demonstration for the villains' power. How does Hosnian set back our heroes? It doesn't. Did they lose families they loved or friends they cared about? Nope. Were they on a mission to that planet? Not at all. Hosnian doesn't matter to our characters so why should it matter to us other than "Oh no, the bad guys did something that bad guys do!"
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I haven't paid attention to this guy since he called Mass Effect 3 the Citizen Kane of videogames and everyone was too stupid to realize it, but I feel he's pretty spot on here.
After reading it that's how it came off to me as well. A hulkified TFA would have been 40 minutes longer and very slow paced. No thanks you.
This is a perfect example of how 3 hour movies get made. You can criticize any movie this way. There wasn't time unless you want a slow moving all inclusive TV like pace. That's not what they were going for. TFA is a reintroduction to Star Wars.
Man I haven't seen an all caps review since the last time I read Ain't It Cool? back in like 2005.
QuantumZebra
Member
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Hard to take anyone seriously when their entire critique is written like an email from my grandmother.
And yes, I know the "dehulkifier" or whatever it's called is a thing. But I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to make his shit readable.
Also, JJ Abrams should've made a Star Wars movie that made you forget you were watching a Star Wars movie? Yeah okay. The entire point of making Episode VII the way they did was because of how wrong the prequels got it. Disney didn't spend billions to experiment on how they make their mainline SW movies.
They needed new that felt like old, and Abrams did that brilliantly.
And yes, I know the "dehulkifier" or whatever it's called is a thing. But I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to make his shit readable.
Also, JJ Abrams should've made a Star Wars movie that made you forget you were watching a Star Wars movie? Yeah okay. The entire point of making Episode VII the way they did was because of how wrong the prequels got it. Disney didn't spend billions to experiment on how they make their mainline SW movies.
They needed new that felt like old, and Abrams did that brilliantly.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I disagree.
Pacing wouldn't need to slow down to show any of that. Alderaan works because Leia's family is there and it's our heroes' main story goal for most of the movie. Did its inclusion slow down ANH? Meanwhile, TFA's frantic pace leads to the useless rathtar sequence which slows the pace down. It's high energy, but it has fuck all to do with the story.
The point that the writer of the article and the person you're quoting are trying to make is that we as viewers don't care about the planets blowing up. Yeah, it makes it obvious that these guys are evil but we already knew that. And aside from that why should we care about any of it? We don't know these planets, we don't know the New Republic, we don't know anyone who is from those planets. Even Leia and co. mention it once afterwards before forgetting about the entire thing. The star system blowing up is just a way for the film to say "See, these guys are even worse than the Empire, they only blew up one planet!"
Let's say we had a short scene earlier in the film where Leia was talking politics with some of the people we see right before Hosnian Prime blows up. Then we as the viewer would at least kind of know these characters and maybe feel something. Or let's say the writers went full evil and actually blew up Coruscant, that would've been far more powerful than just a random group of new planets we didn't know about until one scene earlier. The reason Alderaan's destruction was powerful wasn't because it just showed how evil the Empire exactly is, but because we knew the planet was important since our heroes were heading to it and Leia had just spent an entire scene begging Grand Moff Tarkin to stay away from Alderaan.
People don't miss that, of course it's to show how evil The First Order is. Thing is, we already knew they are very evil without them blowing up those planets. This is Star Wars, a film series that's built on very basic good vs. evil confrontations, literally the only time Star Wars has done grey morality is KotOR 2. From the very first scene the viewers know that The First Order is evil because they look like the old evil empire and they just massacred an entire village. There's no need to rub it in even more with later scenes. It's the same problem Game of Thrones had this season, everytime they showed Ramsay Bolton he was doing something evil. Many viewers were complaining about his scenes being meaningless because we already know he's evil.
[Insert token gripe about all caps]
With that out of the way, this is probably the most I've ever agreed with FCH. He gets needlessly sensationalist with the "it's a liar" and "it's a sociopath" stuff but the content does cut to the heart of Abrams' issues as a filmmaker and how they extended to Force Awakens.
With that out of the way, this is probably the most I've ever agreed with FCH. He gets needlessly sensationalist with the "it's a liar" and "it's a sociopath" stuff but the content does cut to the heart of Abrams' issues as a filmmaker and how they extended to Force Awakens.
heliosRAzi
Banned
People thought it was Coruscant when it happened. Mostly because they only mention Hosnian once after the planets got blown up.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Sounds exactly like what happened with the destruction of Alderaan in the first movie. Leia reacted for a second, and then nobody gave a shit. And we didn't exactly get to know the planet very well then either.
This critic is asking for high drama out of a Star Wars movie, which shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what Star Wars actually is.
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