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[ChorizoPicozo]

You could call it that, but the reality is that gaming is blending as a marketplace. Is the Switch a console or a handheld? Does it matter?

The distinction between PC gaming and console gaming has never been slimmer.

I think people have been so stuck in the mold of "console wars" that they've begun to think this is how the world works.

Imagine if Apple had said, hey we're good at making computers, let's not get into iPods or iPhones... even though that was a natural extension of computing and Apple was always big into music.

my boy. Herman and totoki implied what was their "business":

The core business will remain focused on the console, while also reaching outside markets, not just for extra revenue, but also in the hopes of attracting new consumers to its ecosystem.

 

[mckmas8808]

Astro Bot will be a cute AA game, but it's not one of the big ones and it won't have the same marketing budget that sells millions on it's own.
I expect it to score in the range of Psychonatus 2 which sold like shit btw. Sony has a much better hardware base than Microsoft, but it 100% won't sell anywhere close to Spider-Man, GOW, TLOU or Horizon.

Astro Bot was made by 60 people in Japan over a 3 year period. The game more than likely cost between $30-$50 to make (including marketing). They'll break even at or around 700,000 units sold at full price. This game will easily do WAAAAY more than that.

But it doesn't have to sell 20 million units either.

 

[HogIsland]

PC gaming
Steam gaming

 

[mckmas8808]

my boy. Herman and totoki implied what was their "business":

The core business will remain focused on the console, while also reaching outside markets, not just for extra revenue, but also in the hopes of attracting new consumers to its ecosystem.

I'm pretty such Mibu no ookami understands and agrees with the bolded here.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

my boy. Herman and totoki implied what was their "business":

The core business will remain focused on the console, while also reaching outside markets, not just for extra revenue, but also in the hopes of attracting new consumers to its ecosystem.

That's literally what I said...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

PC gaming
Steam gaming

Fortnite
Minecraft
Valorant
Roblox
WoW

Yes, tell me more about how PC gaming doesn't exist and that it is really Steam gaming.

 

[HogIsland]

Fortnite
Minecraft
Valorant
Roblox
WoW

Yes, tell me more about how PC gaming doesn't exist and that it is really Steam gaming.

I don't care about those games and if I did I wouldn't play them because they're not on Steam.

 

[DragonNCM]

I a lot of the media focus on PC is due to Helldivers being day and date release. It was, after all, their highest profile release this year.

I think Astro Bot may change things.

Astro bot is a filler game, it wont change anything.
Sony needs first party line up games but there is nothing confirmed in the making till now.
Sonyland is dry atm.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't care about those games and if I did I wouldn't play them because they're not on Steam.

And yet hundreds of millions of people do...

The biggest mistake people make in saying a Sony launcher/storefront would fail is in thinking that the only measure of success relates to becoming market leader against Steam.

It doesn't need to do that.

The only calculus for Sony is can they create enough of a userbase on PC that wants to buy their games and that they don't need to cut Valve 20%+ in royalties. Can they expand their PS+ subscriber base on PC? Can they sell more peripherals on PC.

All of this is operating income.

The biggest problem for every major storefront/launcher is that they don't make enough of their own games and none of them are really a proper platform. Epic has to pay to get other games on their launcher. Activision had the most self published games, but so many CoD players were already specifically on Steam, but then again ABK has been on a downhill journey for a very long time.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Astro Bot was made by 60 people in Japan over a 3 year period. The game more than likely cost between $30-$50 to make (including marketing). They'll break even at or around 700,000 units sold at full price. This game will easily do WAAAAY more than that.

But it doesn't have to sell 20 million units either.

I know, but the point was "change things" and in my opinion it's too small for that. I have no doubt it will be profitable, it looks very good. Just too bad it's not designed for VR.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

That's literally what I said...

it was weird the way you phrase it.

I think the distinction between PC gaming and consoles is as strong as ever, with PC gaming gaining popularity and accessibility.
They are closer competitors than ever, that's for sure.

the apple example is not quite right, I think. because they don't make content, they are not an entertainment company, movie/TV/videogame developer etcetera.

The Apple TV venture, on which they are spending a lot of money without much success, is a frivolity they can afford.

 

[HogIsland]

And yet hundreds of millions of people do...

The biggest mistake people make in saying a Sony launcher/storefront would fail is in thinking that the only measure of success relates to becoming market leader against Steam.

It doesn't need to do that.

The only calculus for Sony is can they create enough of a userbase on PC that wants to buy their games and that they don't need to cut Valve 20%+ in royalties. Can they expand their PS+ subscriber base on PC? Can they sell more peripherals on PC.

All of this is operating income.

The biggest problem for every major storefront/launcher is that they don't make enough of their own games and none of them are really a proper platform. Epic has to pay to get other games on their launcher. Activision had the most self published games, but so many CoD players were already specifically on Steam, but then again ABK has been on a downhill journey for a very long time.

Every other launcher is losing, embarrassingly. Few divisions at Sony have ever made quality PC application software. There is no reason to believe Playstation can do better than Epic Games, and Epic suuuuuuucks.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

it was weird the way you phrase it.

I think the distinction between PC gaming and consoles is as strong as ever, with PC gaming gaining popularity and accessibility.
They are closer competitors than ever, that's for sure.

Game development is as streamlined as ever. Porting games is a completely different science than it was in the 90s and 2000s. Engines are now multiplatform and all you have to do is compile against the platform you're looking to work with and optimize against the performance.

Ports used to be expensive and time consuming.

The architecture of consoles is nearly identical to that of PC, whereas consoles used to be entirely bespoke and custom made.

the apple example is not quite right, I think. because they don't make content, they are not an entertainment company, movie/TV/videogame developer etcetera.

The Apple TV venture, on which they are spending a lot of money without much success, is a frivolity they can afford.

Content is just another product. In fact, it's the easiest product to not have barriers involved depending on platforms. This argument is actually weaker.

Making hardware is FAR more difficult because markets are so different.

The laptop market is not the some as the portable music player market which is not the same as the smartphone market.

If you make content whether it is on HBO or AppleTV, doesn't change how you make the content. The same is true for Sony. Porting their games to PC doesn't change the content.

 

[Killer8]

Ah, Hideki Yasuda, the same dude who brought us this top tier analysis:.

Soothsayer, he tried to warn us.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Game development is as streamlined as ever. Porting games is a completely different science than it was in the 90s and 2000s. Engines are now multiplatform and all you have to do is compile against the platform you're looking to work with and optimize against the performance.

Ports used to be expensive and time consuming.

The architecture of consoles is nearly identical to that of PC, whereas consoles used to be entirely bespoke and custom made.

i was taking about the markets.

But even if we take what you are saying (wich is true) part of the conversation.

there are economic/market factors that make this conversation way more extensive.

while game development is streamlined as ever... development costs/time are higher than ever as well as complexity. which explains why so many AAA games come out in a poor/not optimal state on PC and Consoles.

here enters Sony, as a platform holder their incentive is to sell its console (which is of course just a market place)... and you sell the console by marketing games.

so, it's not a question of streamline development between console and PC but an strategic one between the value (monetary, cultural, desirabily) of an IP to your brand/platform

Content is just another product. In fact, it's the easiest product to not have barriers involved depending on platforms. This argument is actually weaker.

YET. Rings of Power is exclusive to Amazon prime

strangers things/squid game to Netflix

MCU to Disney+

Making hardware is FAR more difficult because markets are so different.

The laptop market is not the some as the portable music player market which is not the same as the smartphone market.

If you make content whether it is on HBO or AppleTV, doesn't change how you make the content. The same is true for Sony. Porting their games to PC doesn't change the content.

it doesn't change the content. it changes ITS
VALUE.

this is what a lot of people don't consider while talking about "business", how the emotional impact of art/entertainment almost like a "soft power" factor that businesses can use to be stronger.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

i was taking about the markets.

But even if we take what you are saying (wich is true) part of the conversation.

there are economic/market factors that make this conversation way more extensive.

while game development is streamlined as ever... development costs/time are higher than ever as well as complexity. which explains why so many AAA games come out in a poor/not optimal state on PC and Consoles.

here enters Sony, as a platform holder their incentive is to sell its console (which is of course just a market place)... and you sell the console by marketing games.

so, it's not a question of streamline development between console and PC but an strategic one between the value (monetary, cultural, desirabily) of an IP to your brand/platform

Games coming out in poor states has always been a problem. The inherent cost of not porting a game is much higher than keeping a game exclusive and Sony largely gets the best of both worlds by farming the work out to a studio that just ports games.

YET. Rings of Power is exclusive to Amazon prime

strangers things/squid game to Netflix

MCU to Disney+


it doesn't change the content. it changes ITS
VALUE.

Are they? It looks like I can get all of that on disc. HBO has started putting some of their shows on Netflix. The market changes and evolves, because these shows are also extremely expensive to make. You have to get all the revenue you can especially once something has outlived its usefulness as an exclusive. Which is how most tv shows traditionally ended up on other channels in syndication.

Sony has avoided most of the cost inherent to running a streaming service because they put their content on various platforms, while other streams are deep in the red.

this is what a lot of people don't consider while talking about "business", how the emotional impact of art/entertainment almost like a "soft power" factor that businesses can use to be stronger.

See above.

 

[mckmas8808]

YET. Rings of Power is exclusive to Amazon prime

strangers things/squid game to Netflix

MCU to Disney+

Sorry but Mibu no ookami just doesn't understand the point and power of exclusives. Not sure why the first 50 people to explain it to him, doesn't allow him to understand it. But maybe you can get through to him.

 

[DForce]

Hideki Yasuda... LOL

 

[BennyBlanco]

And yet hundreds of millions of people do...

The biggest mistake people make in saying a Sony launcher/storefront would fail is in thinking that the only measure of success relates to becoming market leader against Steam.

It doesn't need to do that.

The only calculus for Sony is can they create enough of a userbase on PC that wants to buy their games and that they don't need to cut Valve 20%+ in royalties. Can they expand their PS+ subscriber base on PC? Can they sell more peripherals on PC.

All of this is operating income.

The biggest problem for every major storefront/launcher is that they don't make enough of their own games and none of them are really a proper platform. Epic has to pay to get other games on their launcher. Activision had the most self published games, but so many CoD players were already specifically on Steam, but then again ABK has been on a downhill journey for a very long time.

You genuinely believe PC gamers will pay for Ps+?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Games..

let's make it easier

if PS becomes an app everywhere... the only differentiator will be exclusive games.

there is a reason why PS has the marketing rights for GTAVI.

 

[Banjo64]

Trend chasing never works. Look at Nintendo, even in their darkest days they deliver exciting and acclaimed experiences.

Can’t believe I’m saying this but even Microsoft with games like Grounded have more originality than PS5 era Sony.

 

[VitoNotVito]

I a lot of the media focus on PC is due to Helldivers being day and date release. It was, after all, their highest profile release this year.

I think Astro Bot may change things.

A game for kids will change what?

 

[{insert code here}]

Sony really about to fumble it. They're heading towards a cliff but their fanbase (fanboys) are screaming no, no, no the roads clear keep going.

 

[Astral Dog]

Sony will be fine, they are the most stable gaming company (outside the PSVita of course) , they make strong hardware and software that appeals to all groups, they have never 'lost' a generation, with the closest being PS3 but it recovered.

Right now they are in a stronger position than Nintendo even, unless they can make the Switch 2 as popular as the Switch,wich is always a risk for them

 

[Venom Snake]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sorry but Mibu no ookami just doesn't understand the point and power of exclusives. Not sure why the first 50 people to explain it to him, doesn't allow him to understand it. But maybe you can get through to him.

let's make it easier

if PS becomes an app everywhere... the only differentiator will be exclusive games.

there is a reason why PS has the marketing rights for GTAVI.

You just proved that you're wrong. The only differentiator is exclusive games, then what are marketing rights? GTA6 is not exclusive. Marketing rights are a SEPARATE differentiator.

You guys are being dense. There are limits to exclusivity and almost every content based business reveals that.

What are the big exclusives for Spotify and Apple Music? Again, if exclusives are so important why do tv shows go into syndication? If they're so important why do they hit home video/streaming?

The value of an individual exclusive diminishes overtime. There are multitude of other differentiators other than exclusivity. Pricing, UX, ecosystem, customer service, availability, marketing, performance, and on and on.

I'm not saying exclusivity doesn't matter, but what matters even more is the context of that exclusivity. I'm not sure why that's a difficult concept for you guys to understand given the myriad of examples proving otherwise across time and industry.

Sony has witnessed much of the industry pass them by, multiplatform publishers, multi device publishers. There are those who have the idea that Sony being essentially isolationist, is a growth strategy... it just isn't.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Typical media. It will be ok. People forget the stacked stable of devs that are working on a lot of unannounced games.

And this is coming from somebody who's taking a bit of a break from PlayStation and then focused this morning PC and even Game pass.

Typical slander hyperbole that gets people talking about things while they are running pretty solid operation. And nobody ever talks about the economy and inflation as well as people expect I guess the money tree to continue to grow worldwide while most of us are struggling more paying for taxes and everything else.

It all comes down to the games we want to play and how much money we have to invest in our favorite hobby.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Eh, the prices of ps5 and Xbox series x. Believe it gonna hurt ps5 long term. The pro made help. Really hurt the Xbox. For the ppl that would buy one when it first come out and then buy the other 3 year later when it cheaper. Is gone. Ps5 and XSX should really be 300 or less by now. Also, is it higher in some countries now then when it launched? Shit crazy.

I got both the first year they come out. But if any one of them crap out. I’m not gonna buy a replacement. Forget. Had to buy 2 ps1, 2 ps2, 2 ps3, 3 Xbox 360. Crazy enough, only had to buy 1 ps4 even tho it would sound like it could go any time, like my last 360 I had before I sold it. Shit be loud and only 1 Xbox one. All Nintendo consoles I have only have to buy once.

 

[Syphon Filter]

sony fanboys coping lol. there is some truth to it, its not a coincidence that sony is carefully choosing what games to make and the amount of games to put out.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Issues like storage capacity

Tom_cruise_what?.gif

investing in a business without a clear vision or purpose

They have a vision. It just doesn't work for them as it didn't work for MS.

Make sense, considering PC is a huge platform so its natural that PC is sustaining them at the moment.

My sarcasm detector just broke.

 

[Woopah]

Trend chasing never works. Look at Nintendo, even in their darkest days they deliver exciting and acclaimed experiences.

Can’t believe I’m saying this but even Microsoft with games like Grounded have more originality than PS5 era Sony.

Sony has still published/supported several new IP on PS5, I don't think they've been bad in that regard.

 

[Katajx]

Reads like a concerned citizen that recently bought an Xbox.

 

[SweetTooth]

Holy sh*t!! How can Sony "Gaming" be struggling while posting record revenues and profits?

What a reactionary and hyperbolic take, lmao

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You just proved that you're wrong.

explain this:

why GoW ragnarok made more revenue than Cyberpunk 2077?

dont ignore my point about the VALUE of an IP.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

explain this:

why GoW ragnarok made more revenue than Cyberpunk 2077?

dont ignore my point about the VALUE of an IP.

• First, I don't know that it did
• Second, Cyberpunk had a terrible launch
• Third, God of War Ragnarok was a follow-up to a game that sold over 20 million copies and a franchise that has been around since the early 2000s

This was a baffling response AND you ignored every point I made earlier.

 

[Little Chicken]

I'm highly concerned

 

[mckmas8808]

You just proved that you're wrong. The only differentiator is exclusive games, then what are marketing rights? GTA6 is not exclusive. Marketing rights are a SEPARATE differentiator.

You guys are being dense. There are limits to exclusivity and almost every content based business reveals that.

What are the big exclusives for Spotify and Apple Music? Again, if exclusives are so important why do tv shows go into syndication? If they're so important why do they hit home video/streaming?

The value of an individual exclusive diminishes overtime. There are multitude of other differentiators other than exclusivity. Pricing, UX, ecosystem, customer service, availability, marketing, performance, and on and on.

I'm not saying exclusivity doesn't matter, but what matters even more is the context of that exclusivity. I'm not sure why that's a difficult concept for you guys to understand given the myriad of examples proving otherwise across time and industry.

Sony has witnessed much of the industry pass them by, multiplatform publishers, multi device publishers. There are those who have the idea that Sony being essentially isolationist, is a growth strategy... it just isn't.

Yes, there are limits to exclusives. And THAT'S the point! Exclusives exist to increase the mindshare or sales of a platform. Sony can grow in many ways. Having ZERO exclusives isn't one of them.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yes, there are limits to exclusives. And THAT'S the point! Exclusives exist to increase the mindshare or sales of a platform. Sony can grow in many ways. Having ZERO exclusives isn't one of them.

Please show me where I said they should have zero exclusives...

 

[DragonNCM]

Astro Bot was made by 60 people in Japan over a 3 year period. The game more than likely cost between $30-$50 to make (including marketing). They'll break even at or around 700,000 units sold at full price. This game will easily do WAAAAY more than that.

But it doesn't have to sell 20 million units either.

Knowing Sony they maybe projected 20 mill sold & if it doesn't ?
Bend studio

You genuinely believe PC gamers will pay for Ps+?

They pay for Xbox game pass, they will surly pay for PS+ also.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

• First, I don't know that it did
• Second, Cyberpunk had a terrible launch
• Third, God of War Ragnarok was a follow-up to a game that sold over 20 million copies and a franchise that has been around since the early 2000s

This was a baffling response AND you ignored every point I made earlier.

let's bring this to earth:

so, we agree to this. right? so that's it

i think the misunderstanding is coming from your idea of equating different business models/completely different companies (with different business realities-expectations and metrics for success) to Play Station/videogames

Apple/Amazon/Google/MS have different core bussiness than Sony-Playstation.

sony in general is closer to an entertainment/art/consumer electronics business (like producing cameras/monitors used in film making for example)

while the other are tech focused, ecosystems and services. that use their insane amount of money to venture on entertainment just like billioners invest in the stock market for fun.


you can look at these:




completely different

Play Station business is about getting that 30% cut. their first party games are not the ones sustaining the company (it's nice that they are making actual profit) but that is not their main purpose.

the only thing I'm a saying (and you are not taking into account) is:


Play Station has way more to lose chasing more revenue from their games sold in other platforms (day one for sure) we still don't have enough data to know long term consequences of thrr current strategy than doubling down in its console business.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

let's bring this to earth:

so, we agree to this. right? so that's it

i think the misunderstanding is coming from your idea of equating different business models/completely different companies (with different business realities-expectations and metrics for success) to Play Station/videogames

Apple/Amazon/Google/MS have different core bussiness than Sony-Playstation.

sony in general is closer to an entertainment/art/consumer electronics business (like producing cameras/monitors used in film making for example)

while the other are tech focused, ecosystems and services. that use their insane amount of money to venture on entertainment just like billioners invest in the stock market for fun.


you can look at these:




completely different

Play Station business is about getting that 30% cut. their first party games are not the ones sustaining the company (it's nice that they are making actual profit) but that is not their main purpose.

the only thing I'm a saying (and you are not taking into account) is:


Play Station has way more to lose chasing more revenue from their games sold in other platforms (day one for sure) we still don't have enough data to know long term consequences of thrr current strategy than doubling down in its console business.

Would you agree that in 2006, smartphones were not a core business for Apple?

Would you agree that in 1998, movies were not a core business for Marvel?

Would you agree that in 2007, original content was not a core business for Netflix?

 

[yurinka]

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jp.gamesindustry.biz

(in japanese)
translated by Deepl

For the fiscal year ended in March Sony posted this:

And for the April-June quarter report the article says "It is true that the financial results are excellent with increased sales and profits".

But according to him PS is doomed because game units sold in this quarter vs the same of 4 years ago(randomly chosen, he skipped the most recent ones because results are similar) decreased (ignoring it was just a quarter with weak releases and that the revenue from addons and subs increased), because supposed "PS5 storage capacity problems", because they didn't achieve their hardware sales estimate for last FY, and because they can't price cut it and instead have to increase its price due to inflation, yen exchange etc.

This is a drunk shot of himselft that he forgot to include in the article, maybe because was too drunk:

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Would you agree that in 2006, smartphones were not a core business for Apple?

if I ask Chat GPT what is apple's core business:
Apple's core business is centered around creating and selling consumer electronics, software, and services that are deeply integrated into a cohesive ecosystem

so. Smartphones were indeed just and extension of Apple's core business.

but the question is:

Is Apple TV a core Apple business?

In other words: If Appe TV ceases to exists would Apple be in financial trouble?.... i don't think so

Would you agree that in 1998, movies were not a core business for Marvel?

Marvel was bankrupt and it had to sell the character rights for movies and TV. it was bad.

Would you agree that in 2007, original content was not a core business for Netflix?

If Netflix didn't have a strong original portfolio would you think they would be able to increase its prices or even reach the market share they have now?


but again, you are completely ignoring the PlayStation's core business: That 30% cut.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

if I ask Chat GPT what is apple's core business:
Apple's core business is centered around creating and selling consumer electronics, software, and services that are deeply integrated into a cohesive ecosystem

so. Smartphones were indeed just and extension of Apple's core business.

but the question is:

Is Apple TV a core Apple business?

In other words: If Appe TV ceases to exists would Apple be in financial trouble?.... i don't think so

Ask ChatGPT how many Rs are in the word Strawberry...

If smartphones are an extension of Apple's core business, certainly Sony entering PC and handheld would similarly be an extension of their core business.

Marvel was bankrupt and it had to sell the character rights for movies and TV. it was bad.

You're refusing to answer the question. Their core business was comics, which is why they sold movie rights.

Companies grow and evolve over time and they expand what they do and sometimes their focuses change entirely.

If Netflix didn't have a strong original portfolio would you think they would be able to increase its prices or even reach the market share they have now?


but again, you are completely ignoring the PlayStation's core business: That 30% cut.

You're still ignoring that Netflix never even did original content to begin with, that was a deviation of their business model.

PlayStation's core business is gaming.

 

[RoboFu]

As long as Nintendo is still going and I'm still alive I'll keep gaming. I actually do have a big soft spot for Sony .. going back to when they were just Sony image soft in gaming. I would be sad if they completely went under.

The one company that really makes me sad right now is Konami. Literal shell of their former selves.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ask ChatGPT how many Rs are in the word Strawberry...

If smartphones are an extension of Apple's core business, certainly Sony entering PC and handheld would similarly be an extension of their core business.



You're refusing to answer the question. Their core business was comics, which is why they sold movie rights.

Companies grow and evolve over time and they expand what they do and sometimes their focuses change entirely.



You're still ignoring that Netflix never even did original content to begin with, that was a deviation of their business model.

PlayStation's core business is gaming.

i don't know what is your obsession bringing companies outside gaming to make your flawed argument. we literally have two:

Xbox and Nintendo.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

i don't know what is your obsession bringing companies outside gaming to make your flawed argument. we literally have two:

Xbox and Nintendo.

Nintendo used to make card games.

Sony was not even a console gaming manufacturer until they jumped into the arena.

Companies take risks on new ventures all the time.

Not sure what to tell you buddy, you're dead wrong, and you know it.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Nintendo used to make card games.

Sony was not even a console gaming manufacturer until they jumped into the arena.

Companies take risks on new ventures all the time.

Not sure what to tell you buddy, you're dead wrong, and you know it.

 

[ArtHands]

He’s validated by what just happened to Concord

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Taking risks and going into new areas doesn't mean you give up on your core business. That being said, new areas of business can change your company forever and can result in new core business if successful.

Nintendo's core business is not cards anymore. Sony's core business is not music players.