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Gamers Nexus - The Problem with Linus Tech Tips: Accuracy, Ethics, & Responsibility

LMG update
















Billet Labs made a Reddit post:



  • LTT Insults Gamer Nexus and Hardware Unboxed over their testing methodologies.
  • Hardware Unboxed hits back. Gamer Nexus takes the high road.
  • LTT doubles down forcing Gamer Jesus to go full biblical on their ass.
  • Exposes shady practices like Linus reviewing merchandise he himself has invested $200k in.
  • Exposes shockingly inaccurate data in CPU, GPU and CPU Cooler benchmarks that are off by up to 300%.
  • Exposes Linux for saying that he purposefully puts out videos with incorrect data because fixing it would cost another $500.
  • LTT employees themselves say that they are burnt out on making 25 videos a week.
  • LTT is now run by a seasoned industry CEO. Worth $100 million and has 120 employees.
  • LTT reviews a prototype GPU cooler for 3090 using a 4090 then botches the install and proceeds to trash the cooler despite inaccurate testing methodology.
  • The developer of the prototype cooler points out that this was poorly tested and that they were never contacted with the bizarre findings by LTT.
  • LTT then auctions off the prototype despite the developer requesting it back months ago. This was the only working prototype which means the work has now stalled.
  • LTT's most recent review of a mouse was somehow even worse with them trashing a mouse they werent even given for review. All because they forgot to remove a plastic tape at the bottom of the mouse causing it to lag.
  • LTT has a habit of issuing half hearted corrections instead of taking down videos and then not pinning the comments so people watch videos that have clear errors.
  • Gamer Jesus sides with the developers of the mouse and GPU cooler for being wronged by LTT and points out that small developers' entire life work is ruined because Linux didnt want to spend an extra $400 to fix a video.
TLDR. LTT is the EA of youtubers.
Linus responded on the LTT forums:




"There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip. I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient.

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

Thanks for reading this."
JayzTwoCents responded in the comments:

"Steve and crew, I waited to watch this video until after finishing my creative for the day so I could go into it with a clear open mind. As someone who has made many many mistakes and honestly am working hard to limit them as much as possible have to say that I genuinely appreciated your attention to detail regarding examples and the insight not only from your perspective and expertise but the insight presented in various clips from LMG... but also your offering of advice on how to be a better reviewer overall. As someone who simply cannot provide the level of detail that you do it gives me something to constantly strive for. I sincerely hope that LMG doesnt take this as an attack but a real eye opener on a broader problem they may not be as evident from their end. As the Walmart Greeter to the tech world, Im glad you are managing the Service Department!"

7rOqOGM.png
 
Last edited:

Puscifer

Member
A lot of us have been saying this for years about Linus.
Linus popularized the unboxing tech trend and that's it, I've been saying forever beyond surface level that I have no idea why people take him seriously for any real depth to technology because the entire channel is "WATCH ME SHILL THIS PRODUCT" Him creating that entire warehouse was the first real step in mitigating this and that's a fact, but it's going to take several years before becoming the HardOCP/Overclockers UK he wanted to be. But judging by this video he may never from the response so far, can't wait to watch it because Steve doesn't do e-drama unless it's serious
 

Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
I like them both, Linus’s goofiness and Steve being more professional. Steve is right, if they going to lean into testing with labs the goofiness is unacceptable.

That said my fav Linus vids are the goofy ones (tech make over, doing stupid pc shit ect..). Labs might have been a waste on that front.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
I like them both, Linus’s goofiness and Steve being more professional. Steve is right, if they going to lean into testing with labs the goofiness is unacceptable.

That said my fav Linus vids are the goofy ones (tech make over, doing stupid pc shit ect..). Labs might have been a waste on that front.

Linus is definitely more entertaining. I like how he gets his staff involved. But GN gets much more into the weeds especially when it comes to thermals.
 

winjer

Gold Member
Started watching it now, but I can imagine Steve tearing a new one on LTT.

Personally, I stopped watching LTT a few years ago. Their content is very basic most of the time, and quite often not particularly good and factual.
It's the kind of company that is more interested in selling overpriced merch, than actually providing good information.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Started watching it now, but I can imagine Steve tearing a new one on LTT.

Personally, I stopped watching LTT a few years ago. Their content is very basic most of the time, and quite often not particularly good and factual.
It's the kind of company that is more interested in selling overpriced merch, than actually providing good information.
Could I interest you in a $70 screwdriver and a t-shirt?
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Who cares about any of them. Imagine giving a crap about YouTubers.

GN and HUB are about the most trusted hardware reviewers....if you care about hardware you should care about these reviewers.
LTT is "the biggest" PC hardware reviwer but I wouldnt say people in the know are very trusting of him and his group.
So yes it is relevant if you care about hardware at all, because if sources are giving you bad data, while also disparaging you from listening to site/people that give more correct data, its a big deal.

Misinformation can alter peoples purchasing habits.


P.S If you dont care about PC hardware at all, why would you even enter a thread about PC hardware reviewers?
detective-conan-shinichi-kudo.gif
 
Last edited:

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
I like them both, Linus’s goofiness and Steve being more professional. Steve is right, if they going to lean into testing with labs the goofiness is unacceptable.

That said my fav Linus vids are the goofy ones (tech make over, doing stupid pc shit ect..). Labs might have been a waste on that front.
I think that they're actively trying to better their processes. I think Linus is a busy father who has had an issue balancing the load of producing content for his growing company while trying to find better folks to alleviate the load of trying to do it all himself.

I can't lean into the negative hyperbole like internet does but it's a valid video by GN. I love both these channels for different reasons.

Maybe less content may help but I'm sure the more employees Linus has, the more human error takes place since Linus can't manage it all. He has a family and needs to balance his work load while trying to find better help.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
summary for those who cannot watch?
  • LTT Insults Gamer Nexus and Hardware Unboxed over their testing methodologies.
  • Hardware Unboxed hits back. Gamer Nexus takes the high road.
  • LTT doubles down forcing Gamer Jesus to go full biblical on their ass.
  • Exposes shady practices like Linus reviewing merchandise he himself has invested $200k in.
  • Exposes shockingly inaccurate data in CPU, GPU and CPU Cooler benchmarks that are off by up to 300%.
  • Exposes Linux for saying that he purposefully puts out videos with incorrect data because fixing it would cost another $500.
  • LTT employees themselves say that they are burnt out on making 25 videos a week.
  • LTT is now run by a seasoned industry CEO. Worth $100 million and has 120 employees.
  • LTT reviews a prototype GPU cooler for 3090 using a 4090 then botches the install and proceeds to trash the cooler despite inaccurate testing methodology.
  • The developer of the prototype cooler points out that this was poorly tested and that they were never contacted with the bizarre findings by LTT.
  • LTT then auctions off the prototype despite the developer requesting it back months ago. This was the only working prototype which means the work has now stalled.
  • LTT's most recent review of a mouse was somehow even worse with them trashing a mouse they werent even given for review. All because they forgot to remove a plastic tape at the bottom of the mouse causing it to lag.
  • LTT has a habit of issuing half hearted corrections instead of taking down videos and then not pinning the comments so people watch videos that have clear errors.
  • Gamer Jesus sides with the developers of the mouse and GPU cooler for being wronged by LTT and points out that small developers' entire life work is ruined because Linux didnt want to spend an extra $400 to fix a video.
TLDR. LTT is the EA of youtubers.
 
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