Support NeoGAF

[SmokedMeat]

The GaaS Evangelical is at it again.

 

[Gp1]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Panel 1: "The games industry is stagnating. They should make more AA games to spur growth."

Panel 2: "That doesn't work. They should explore P2W in a more player friendly manner instead."

Panel 3: (as pictured)

Panel 4: (as pictured)

If you can dish it you can take it! The truth makes it funny.

 

[Kumomeme]

Our favorite movies, TV shows, and books abide by Pay 2 Win rules. Darth Vader spends trillions building his Death Star. He has billions of white helmeted soldiers. He's bribing (I think) politicians across the galaxy. Luke Skywalker enters as a F2P player. Darth Vader has numerous advantages over Luke Skywalker but Luke still has "fun" fighting the empire. All of our favorite stories are asymmetrical. That's Pay 2 Win.

The problem with Pay 2 Win is that it's implementation has been garbage. Up until this point, pay to win has made not paying, unenjoyable. The asymmetry of going against a whale is miserable. So much so that it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the majority of the player base. The correction is simply making the experience fun for the player who doesn't pay anything. Star Wars becomes a much less enjoyable movie if the cheapo Rebel Alliance quite and go play another game. When developers figure out how to make the asymmetry fun...BOOM, there's your industry growth.

dear Rey Skywalker, thats why those company purposely make game not 'enjoyable' so they can push P2W smh

want to encourage P2W but know what gonna happen when experience is fun for those who dont pay anything? they end up wont pay a shit. a contradiction here.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

This thread was made by a crackhead

 

[bender]

This thread was made by a crackhead

Crackheads can be loveable though.

 

[LordCBH]

 

[drganon]

You should have your thread creating ability taken away.

 

[Danjin44]

You should have your thread creating ability taken away.

 

[avin]

I think you mixed up two different ideas.

avin

 

[MagnesD3]

I mean he is a Snake Oil Salesman after all..

 

[Stooky]

 

[sigmaZ]

We have thinking at home. Thinking at home:

 

[Damigos]

Andrew Wilson is that you ?

 

[_Justinian_]

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Yes, they should also try Communism again. The concept is not the problem, it's the implementation. The people who did this before are just stupid, but we are so much smarter than them so we won't make the same mistakes. Trust me bro.

 

[Kumomeme]

Yes, they should also try Communism again. The concept is not the problem, it's the implementation. The people who did this before are just stupid, but we are so much smarter than them so we won't make the same mistakes. Trust me bro.

The correction is simply making the experience fun!

 

[StueyDuck]

They should just skip all the middle bits and reach the ultimate final form where everyone literally pays and who ever pays the most gets a win screen.

That's what the tiktok kids seem to like these days.

 

[RickSanchez]

The correction is simply making the experience fun for the player who doesn't pay anything. When developers figure out how to make the asymmetry fun...BOOM, there's your industry growth.

Publishers will purposefully not do this. Only if the non-paying experience is miserable then will the average joe gamer pay. If the non-paying experience is enjoyable nobody will pay and the publishers will not make money. They want everyone to pay. Non-paying experience will keep getting worse.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

 

[AV]

There's maybe one scenario where this isn't insane: the ability to loot P2W stuff from whales.

If free players could kill PW2 players and take their shit, then yeah, you've created something worth playing. Just depends if you can convince whales to pony up for a game where they can lose it all.

(the answer is they won't)

 

[Danjin44]

There's maybe one scenario where this isn't insane: the ability to loot P2W stuff from whales.

If free players could kill PW2 players and take their shit, then yeah, you've created something worth playing. Just depends if you can convince whales to pony up for a game where they can lose it all.

(the answer is they won't)

You are asking the players to pay real money for digital item with possibility they can lose It in a match? I don’t see anyone do something like this!

 

[Guilty_AI]

You are asking the players to pay real money for digital item with possibility they can lose It in a match? I don’t see anyone do something like this!

That's not even the worst of it. Mechanics like that are essentially a huuuuge incentive to develop cheating and hacking tools, which can get bad enough as they are already. After all there'd be actual financial incentive thrown into the frey for cheating in such games.

 

[Danjin44]

That's not even the worst of it. Mechanics like that are essentially a huuuuge incentive to develop cheating and hacking tools, which can get bad enough as they are already. After all there'd be actual financial incentive thrown into the frey for cheating in such games.

Yeah it just ends up becoming complete shit show!

 

[Doom85]

Yeah it just ends up becoming complete shit show!

Hmm, a tournament where the losers have to forfeit a prized item useful in the game, and among the players are cheaters, err, I mean legit players using mystical artifacts and one of a kind cards that clearly break the meta but are “total legit, you guys! This game is totally balanced for all players!”……I think we just gave someone a brilliant idea:

 

[DragonNCM]

 

[Danjin44]

Hmm, a tournament where the losers have to forfeit a prized item useful in the game, and among the players are cheaters, err, I mean legit players using mystical artifacts and one of a kind cards that clearly break the meta but are “total legit, you guys! This game is totally balanced for all players!”……I think we just gave someone a brilliant idea:

With thread like this I’m start to think OP hates video games…..who actively wants to make gaming miserable?

 

[Doom85]

With thread like this I’m start to think OP hates video games…..who actively wants to make gaming miserable?

I’m hoping the reason there hasn’t yet been a thread title change making fun of OP’s crazy ass take is that the mods are cooking up a particularly clever new thread title (maybe even a new tag for OP?). Can’t wait to see what they come up with!

 

[Lucifers Beard]

You are completely off your fucking tits.

 

[Guilty_AI]

With thread like this I’m start to think OP hates video games…..who actively wants to make gaming miserable?

He doesn't hate videogames, he just doesn't understand people thus the gaming marketing by extension.

 

[Danjin44]

He doesn't hate videogames, he just doesn't understand people thus the gaming marketing by extension.

Problem is he pretends his expert at it and genuinely gets shocked when he sees most people reject his so called “brilliant” ideas.

 

[newtypepilot]

 

[Bartski]

How about P2L? Pay to lose. MTX regres boosters. The ultimate challenge

 

[Guilty_AI]

Problem is he pretends his expert at it and genuinely gets shocked when he sees most people reject his so called “brilliant” ideas.

I have to respect his resilience tho, remaining confident in his bullshit after seeing it turn out to be wrong over and over again can't be easy. A true talent for snake oil sales.

 

[Roman Empire]

Another Men in Boxes thread... How bad can it be?

 

[FunkMiller]

Jesus

If he existed, this thread wouldn't.

 

[AV]

You are asking the players to pay real money for digital item with possibility they can lose It in a match? I don’t see anyone do something like this!

I'm not 100% certain, but I think you might already be able to do this in GTA Online.

 

[Puscifer]

OP is off the gas

 

[Wildebeest]

Star Citizen is pay to cope. Most of the "content" is consuming previews of features that will never be added to the game and looking at spaceship showrooms of things you can buy.

 

[Hugare]

I entered this thread for the dogpilling

Men_in_Boxes never disapoints with the shit takes

I love that you just say that the implementation has been shit without giving any insight about how to fix it

You gotta try harder than this, c'mon

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yes, they should also try Communism again. The concept is not the problem, it's the implementation. The people who did this before are just stupid, but we are so much smarter than them so we won't make the same mistakes. Trust me bro.

Interestingly enough, Communism resembles the current model of multiplayer more than the one I proposed. Take from the wealthy so the poor can feel a certain degree of equality and the government (developers) owns everything. That's what we currently play!

Don't you know Communism doesn't work HerjansEagleFeeder ?!

You are asking the players to pay real money for digital item with possibility they can lose It in a match? I don’t see anyone do something like this!

That would be a relatively simple fix. Your players would be paying for the production of something rather than the thing itself. You charge players $200.00 for the production of a Death Star type vehicle. That means the F2P players can steal the item, but would not be able to keep the item after it's destroyed. The players who bought the item would recieve a new one on a cooldown timer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I entered this thread for the dogpilling

Men_in_Boxes never disapoints with the shit takes

I love that you just say that the implementation has been shit without giving any insight about how to fix it

You gotta try harder than this, c'mon

The implementation wouldn't be that complex. Use Star Citizen as your framework.

Most of you guys like SP games. You already embrace asymmetry and power imbalances in those types of games. Link had to fight a giant flying centipede boss in Tears of the Kingdoms. No one in this thread complained about that interaction (except for me because it was lame AF) because the asymmetry made the experience enjoyable. What's the difference between an entity controlled by AI vs one controlled by an opposing player? The latter would be far more fun/interesting.

 

[existensmaximum]

Trolling, an attempt at humor or just drugs? Nobody knows.

 

[Hugare]

The implementation wouldn't be that complex. Use Star Citizen as your framework.

Most of you guys like SP games. You already embrace asymmetry and power imbalances in those types of games. Link had to fight a giant flying centipede boss in Tears of the Kingdoms. No one in this thread complained about that interaction (except for me because it was lame AF) because the asymmetry made the experience enjoyable. What's the difference between an entity controlled by AI vs one controlled by an opposing player? The latter would be far more fun/interesting.

Comparing to an NPC enemy (a very easy one to beat, btw) shows how lost you are

NPC enemies work because they are like chess pieces: they have limited move set, and the fun in beating them is all about memorizing patterns, predicting their movements and "outsmarting" them.

Online gaming is a completely different beast. Its all about twitch reflexes. COD, Fortnite, Apex, its 90% about being faster than your oponent, not smarter.

Now, imagine being faster than your oponent but still getting killed 'cause instead of dying in 3 shots like you do, it takes 10 shots to kill him. Your dopamine for being faster? Gone.

Now imagine a player that is already faster than you, and would kill you even without boosts, killing you even faster with boosts. You'll never play that shit again.

Your only example of a P2W game being Star Citizen says wonders about your argument

Pretty much everyone and their mothers are developing online pvp games right now. You not being able to find more examples of pay to win games says it all about how stupid the idea is.

 

[AJUMP23]

I disagree, just make good games that people want to play. Reduce some budgets too. Start offering games across a spectrum of price points.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Comparing to an NPC enemy (a very easy one to beat, btw) shows how lost you are

NPC enemies work because they are like chess pieces: they have limited move set, and the fun in beating them is all about memorizing patterns, predicting their movements and "outsmarting" them.

Online gaming is a completely different beast. Its all about twitch reflexes. COD, Fortnite, Apex, its 90% about being faster than your oponent, not smarter.

I really think you need to update your database on what multiplayer has become. They're far more varied than this post suggests.

You list 3 games that rely on twitch reflexes to different degrees. If you pull on that thread alone, you'll understand my position here.

This thread might be inducing poor responses simply because many people lack the understanding of multiplayer.

 

[hinch7]

Its bad enough as it is with games being stuck behind artificial paywalls that are DLC, MTX's, lootboxes (or gambling/gacha) and season passes. Now you want pay to win, which is already in a lot of live service games.... hahahaha. No.

The whales are destroying gaming as it is. Just look at the GPU market and how much graphics cards costs these days. Or people who are consistantly buying season passes and $20+ single DLC skins.

 

[Hugare]

I really think you need to update your database on what multiplayer has become. They're far more varied than this post suggests.

You list 3 games that rely on twitch reflexes to different degrees. If you pull on that thread alone, you'll understand my position here.

This thread might be inducing poor responses simply because many people lack the understanding of multiplayer.

Lots of words, zero examples of other pay to win games

No point in arguying

 

[Lunnarre]

I think this wins the battle for most braindead take I've ever read.

 

[Magic Carpet]

The need to bring back the old PC Console. You would press the '~' key and just type in a cheat, like God Mode, or Give Gold, Ammo.