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[duck_sauce]

There is another forum for you OP run by furries and purples. If GAF isn't for you and you want to just be told 'the other thing' all the time there is a log off button and if you ask they will also cancel your account.

I did not say that this forum is not for me. I been a member for a while now. I care about this forum. I just wanted to raise concerns and talk about it.
Not quite sure why a lot of people want to see me leave....

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

I did not say that this forum is not for me. I been a member for a while now. I care about this forum. I just wanted to raise concerns and talk about it.
Not quite sure why a lot of people want to see me leave....

I dont want you to leave - I just said if GAF wasn't for you there is an alternative.

 

[OverHeat]

I did not say that this forum is not for me. I been a member for a while now. I care about this forum. I just wanted to raise concerns and talk about it.
Not quite sure why a lot of people want to see me leave....

I gave you gold for the effort…but come on.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Is the OP banned? Is the OP being doxxed? That's the difference between the 2 forums.

It's about more than just moderation.

 

[duck_sauce]

I dont want you to leave - I just said if GAF wasn't for you there is an alternative.

I know you don’t want me to leave, but the amount of "goodbye" and "please go" gifs was more than I expected from a platform that centers around discussion.
I’m not that easily offended, and if I ever decide I don’t want to be part of this community, I’ll just quietly step away.

 

[XXL]

I’ve been a longtime (lurking) member and have always appreciated this space for what it is, a forum where gamers can discuss their opinions, insights, and sometimes, their frustrations. However, I’m beginning to notice a disturbing trend here. GAF seems to be morphing more and more into an anti-woke echo chamber, and I think this shift is undermining the integrity of our community.

Let me be clear – I’m not a fan of woke ideology. Like many of you, I have my reservations about how it’s shaping the gaming industry and media at large. The trend toward more woke-friendly narratives and content in games, at times, feels forced and often detracts from the quality of the experience. Criticizing this direction in game development is valid, and these are discussions worth having.

However, what’s worrying to me is how Gaf, in its criticism of "woke" culture, is starting to mirror some of the same behavior that people criticize on another more purple coloured forum, just from the opposite side. The intolerance, aggression, and outright hostility toward other viewpoints are becoming just as prevalent here, and it’s honestly a little disheartening. The constant attacks, labeling, and echo chamber effect are alienating people who might think differently or hold a more moderate view. It's almost as if you’re either all-in with the dominant stance here or you're simply not welcome.

I wish that discussions here were moderated a bit more to promote balanced viewpoints and discourage personal attacks. I’d love to see users show more self-restraint, critical thinking, and maybe even a bit of self-reflection before posting purely emotional outbursts. We don’t all need to agree, but we do need to recognize each other’s humanity, especially when we disagree. After all, we’re all gamers here and came to this forum because we care about gaming.

Tolerance is a two-way street. Just as we criticize certain movements for pushing one-sided narratives and shutting down dissent, we need to be careful not to fall into the same trap. Tolerance means accepting that others might hold views we don’t like or agree with. It means treating others respectfully, even when we fundamentally disagree. I worry that we’re losing that here on GAF.

In the end, we’re all gamers, sharing this space to talk about a medium we care about. We don’t have to agree on every issue, but we should be able to disagree without devolving into hatred or intolerance. I hope we can steer the community back toward a more balanced and respectful discourse before it becomes something unrecognizable....

There is a wide difference between here and Resetera.

For example, you would be banned for saying the opposite of what you're saying there instantly and the thread would have been permanently deleted.

On the flip side, actual racists and bigots get banned here quickly.....on Era they thrive and are celebrated.

 

[delfrickintree]

o

I've seen that here too as well. Is the thread On Topic, that's the question behind it. Derailing threads is common, but sometimes going off topic is because the main topic has run its course. If it has not and there is contention between main topic and off topic then another thread is called for to split those discussions.

In any case, being on topic or not does not an echo chamber make.


Ah yes, eternal September, I regret it and I was born after it. We really do need to make netiquette be required in schools. Here is how to get maximum use of forum conversations, how to not click banner ads, how to think critically, how to reply against ideas not personalities, how to see the best interpretation of posts, and when to spot and stop feeding a troll, etc.one of these days I'm going to write up a bunch of screens and publish them as a nonfiction book.


I agree we have been going in circles at best. And when you are going the wrong direction, turning backwards is the first step to going the right direction. Does that mean you go backwards all the way to where you started? No! But you do need to make some changes somewhere or else you end up right back here in this (currently left hand) dead end alley.


Postmodernism, insufficient advocacy for change is automatically supporting the evil oppressor status quo. I think western society at large is getting sick of the obnoxiousness of this worldview. I at least am.


Yeah postmodern arguments is only too willing to take liberal discussions and norms and use them against those well meaning classical liberals to try to advance their agenda. Just like how certain cultures have a "do unto others before they do unto you, if they are stupid enough to fall for it then that is on them". It's un-Christian behavior but even for those for whom that word is an allergic word, it's an un-charitable toxic behavior that corrodes basic societal trust and is therefore to be condemned even if you set aside the religious take on it as I expect (without evidence) most of thr members here would prefer.


I echo this, people express dismay at how the objects of their enjoyment are not only no longer targeted at them (meh we wish otherwise perhaps if we have good memories of a franchise), but weaponized against them and targeted at fictiously inflated parts of society called "the modern audience" so the creators of the newly targeted content can preen about how fashionable they are.

We don't want fashionable, we want good product!


Thanks for sharing this true and underappreciated view here in the West. I got to spend a year in a former Soviet country and while I only got to interact with those who spoke English, they were staunchly what would today be called anti woke because they apparently saw where what at the time we called political correctness was going.


Agreed, there can be too much attraction to woke stuff from a hate standpoint, it's worth remembering there are other aspects of games to talk about besides just how high the woke meter goes.


Everyone thought Dolores umbridge was a moral majority Bible thumper and it turns out she was just a time traveling mod from a certain purple site!


This is the meta discussion and I agree wokeness is a big tool of subversion today, but I'm not going to get into it beyond that because I know this is a gaming site not a politics site and I don't want to take things too off topic.


Being fair and balanced and looking at the ideas is well and good.

But I caution that we don't put that too high on a pedestal. I don't want what has happened in the past to other forums (where people took this attitude overboard and stuck with it so long that it chased away the point of the site itself in the name of looking polite) to happen to NeoGAF.

I joined here because this sites tone reminds me of my 06 heydays and I'm not wanting to be trapped with no choices except the Case Colt Ingersoll grandpas and the Agora Rd catboys (though you will find I have accounts on both sites), So I want to preserve the neutral tone where the focus is the games themselves, with proper discussion on even unpopular points of view without heavy-handed banning.

That is not and should not be seen as incompatible with having us be welcoming and cordial to users especially those with viewpoints we agree to disagree with.


I agree with this being the win. I'm new enough on the site that I don't know if the site is getting that win or not but I plan to continue trying to get us there or at least to do my part to do so.


I agree with your post, I would say this as "all private groups are characterized by common ground" such as in this case a shared viewpoint. An echo chamber is a phenomenon where one only ever sees agreeing opinions that reinforce your existing world view, I would not say that this site is that one-sided currently, So for the sake of being pedantic I would say that common ground is more precise than echo chamber.


I agree and I hope we all continue to appreciate the site culture being what it is and continue to help it move into a better future without falling to the left hand or the right.


Agreed! I looked here for about a week before opening an account just to see what the controversial discussions looked like and I liked what I saw.


Postmodernism is caustic to our modernist worldview and these are some of its children, and while I agree with your posts point, I won't add to it to try to stay on topic (is gaf too one sided in anti woke) vs the broader (why woke is bad).


And potentially sealioning, but until the OP insistently repeats their points whilst ignoring our rebuttals, I'm not seeing that on my mental radar just yet. But if they are, then we stop engaging and feeding the trolls....but my troll I meter hasn't gone off yet, though I am watching it like Spock does his tricorder, looking for troll signs.


I agree, it's the "low quality and expecting that because the subject of the low quality work is a favored or fashionable totem right now, it is therefore beyond criticism and you are required to support it and love it and advance it, anyone who gets in the way of the glorious revolution is therefore tarnished" toxic phenomenon which is what this site rebels against (from what I have seen so far) more than direct animus of the fashionable totems themselves.

1. Never mass reply like this again
2. Will you marry me

 

[Gonzito]

I did not say that this forum is not for me. I been a member for a while now. I care about this forum. I just wanted to raise concerns and talk about it.
Not quite sure why a lot of people want to see me leave....

Man dont take things so seriously, people here express their opinions, sometimes in good ways sometimes in bad ways, but just ignore those things you dont like and move on. You need to accept that sometimes things are out of your control and this one is one them.

I think every website is toxic, GAF is toxic, Resetera too, twitter, reddit....any place in internet where people anonymously participate and speak freely has toxicity

But I tell you something, to me GAF is the lesser evil, here at least you can speak your mind freely without getting banned. I cant say the same thing for the purple forum

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

Thing is,there are some things I won't tolerate,the mutilation of childrens bodies in the name of perverted ideologies is one of them.Comparing this place to resetera is nuts,interacting with the average person on here despite their views it's obvious they are pretty normal.....resetera is full of actual nutters and communists.Fuck that place.This forum is fine,there are plenty of people defending the Dragon Age game despite it's disgusting gender ideology bullshit,and they are allowed to do so even if I think it's fucking gross,lol.

Are we talking circumcision now?

 

[GymWolf]

Who said that? I asked you to define something to get a better sense of what you are talking?

I'm not gonna play this game with you, your first post was already pretty clear on what are your thoughts.

No doubt there is some real racist inbetween the anti-woke brigade exactly lile there are some rotten apples in every group, but most of the people just want this shit out of their entertainment products.

 

[duck_sauce]

I gave you gold for the effort…but come on.

Thanks i guess...?
Not sure what to respond to that.

 

[GudOlRub]

I, for one, hate everyone equally, I'll roll my eyes at both the people who say DA Veilguard is the best written game ever because of its inclusivity or that hot girls in games are bad because "mUh SeXiSm", but I'll also roll my eyes at the people who screeched like idiots and said AW2 is garbage because Remedy race swapped Saga Anderson from Quantum Break to Alan Wake 2, despite those games not even being set in the same universe so technically they aren't even the same character.

 

[XXL]

I know you don’t want me to leave, but the amount of "goodbye" and "please go" gifs was more than I expected from a platform that centers around discussion.
I’m not that easily offended, and if I ever decide I don’t want to be part of this community, I’ll just quietly step away.

No one wants you to leave.

Posters are just being edgy posting gifs, expect that everywhere on the internet.

90% of this discussion is explaining the differences between here and there.

 

[OverHeat]

John Marston lets make gold rain for that poor soul

 

[Palabragrís]

No one wants you to leave.

Posters are just being edgy posting gifs, expect that everywhere on the internet.

90% of this discussion is explaining the differences between here and there.

I don't stand for just posting gifs without adding an argument. Now, and I hate to be the old man here, but believe when I tell you it was waaaaaaaaaay worse in the 90s and early 2000s.
The Internet 1.0 was wild. And that's what amuses me the most: The people banning others just for their opinion wouldn't have survived a week back then.

 

[howitis3]

I identify as woke, but am anti woke.

 

[OverHeat]

duck_sauce

 

[FeralEcho]

Sounds like OP needs a playthrough of Dustborn to cheer them up a bit from all this GAF negativity.

 

[Aguero9320]

I agree with the OP, but this is not the place I want to debate it, and it’s infecting everything. I come here to read about games, and hopefully enjoy them. It’s getting harder and I come here less as a result - not asking anyone to care, it’s just a shame for me as I used to enjoy this place a lot more.

As a counter to the people saying ‘extreme right today was Everyman a few years ago’, it is so weird to me what people consider to be ‘extreme left’ these days, particularly in America… The democrats here are centre right, centrist at most yet the Republicans are frothing like Stalin would have considered them too extreme - it is, frankly, complete bullshit. The whole debate has been hijacked by people who, for some reason, cannot stand to let people just live their lives, and feel the need to inject themselves into matters that have no effect on them. Whatsoever. (And no, completely optional things in a character generator do not affect you in any way).

For me, being tolerant is the better of the two choices, so I try to do that. Whether it’s race, sexuality or politics. My opinion is just my opinion and not everyone needs to hear them. Hating everyone all the time is just exhausting, so I stay away from today’s Republican Party. Equally, I stay away from the democrats because they are useless, and just Diet Republican these days.

 

[Topher]

It's about more than just moderation.

Perhaps, but it is an important distinction and a valid one. The OP would already be banned on Era. That is a crucial difference.

 

[Felessan]

People just love to hate, be it a woke, gaas or CEO pay
And as they are emotionally invested, they are much more loud and noticable

 

[OverHeat]

None binary is fucking retarded you have a dick or not. End of story but in all seriousness who cares?

 

[Miggytronz]

People are gonna fight against the woke virus that is fucking up their hobby and trolling these retards activists is funny, and the real racists and bigots get the hammer ban pretty swiftly, i see no problem here.

This!

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Perhaps, but it is an important distinction and a valid one. The OP would already be banned on Era. That is a crucial difference.

Sure, but what he is talking about is the hyvemind and echo-chamber that's being created and he is 100% correct.

I've never been to Era, but every time I see a fellow Gaffer describe it, it's basically Gaf in a nutshell.
Or at least, Gaf nowadays.

Concord is almost like the final straw that has pushed anti-Woke (on Gaf) over the edge and effectively made them as poisonous and detrimental as Woke.

It's not like I never addressed this before and like clockwork, the reaction on Gaf to statements like these, ironically, is exactly like what you'd expect from the Woke-crowd and Cancel-culture.

 

[Hugare]

Sometimes people have shitty opinions. That's life in society. They have their right to express them. And here you can debate against them or ignore them.

About the echo chamber thing: well, one extreme will always result in the existence of an exact opposite. That's how it is. No forum out there other than GAF where they can habit, so here it is.

 

[Sentenza]

My personal "moderate" take on the topic is that
- on one hand I'd rather avoid the downward spiral of listening to every word coming from confirmed MORONS like Grummz, Endymion or Doctor Disaster (and the other half million dudes with the same anti-woke youtubers shitting the same headlines over and over), nor I want to spend my days crying every time a woman or some "ethnic" character shows up on the screen.
- On the other hand, fuck me if I'm going to go back to "fall in line" with the purple retards and start buying into every goddamn cry against "oppression" or their reality-warping claims about "sexual identity being a social construct", "gender being fluid" "trans people actually becoming people of the opposite sex", "women being the most victimized minority on the planet" and whatever other delusion the freaks love to push.

Sure, but what he is talking about is the hyvemind and echo-chamber that's being created and he is 100% correct.

I've never been to Era, but every time I see a fellow Gaffer describe it, it's basically Gaf in a nutshell.
Or at least, Gaf nowadays.

You clearly never witnessed the genuine BAD days of "GAF being an echo chamber".
When we had the stealth pedos like Opiate and Amirox claiming the moral high ground above everyone else and you could get banned on a whim for "wrong thinking".

 

[MarkMe2525]

I agree with 90% of OP. I am down with pushing back against many "design" decisions that these publishers and leads were forcing down our throat, but it's shifted into something I'm not comfortable with. Echo chamber vibes for sure. Not so much from moderation, and not from the majority, but from a very very vocal minority.

Edit: in a nutshell, I find myself often feeling the same cringe feeling that I used to get, when I used to pop on over to the other side.

 

[Topher]

I've never been to Era, but every time I see a fellow Gaffer describe it, it's basically Gaf in a nutshell.
Or at least, Gaf nowadays.

It isn't. You would have to have been there to understand, I'm afraid.

 

[MikeM]

I just wish people put this much energy and effort into things that actually matter as opposed to directing it to hating things that realistically have zero material impact on their daily lives.

 

[Decal4]

The woke crowd is intent on rewriting reality to suit and feed their bullshit. Anyone who disagrees with their thoughts is deemed to be a bigot or phobe. Thanks, but no thanks.

Agreed with your point.

As an aside, what is that golden Thrawn looking avatar from?

 

[Draugoth]

duck_sauce

Well, assuming this isn't a bait thread you are not wrong but as someone who had an account there i can tell you that Gaf is much more tame. A lot of people there were annoying and the mods were insufferable, despite some genuinely good people. I think it's good Gaf is somewhat the polar opposite.

 

[Decal4]

o
1. Never mass reply like this again
2. Will you marry me

1. Yeah once I posted this realized I should have done more individual replies, will do in the future
2. Maybe...ASLR?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It isn't. You would have to have been there to understand, I'm afraid.

Read what I said.

Every time I see someone describe Era, it's like they're talking about Gaf.
I don't need to visit Era for that.

You clearly never witnessed the genuine BAD days of "GAF being an echo chamber".
When we had the stealth pedos like Opiate and Amirox claiming the moral high ground above everyone else and you could get banned on a whim for "wrong thinking".

No idea when that was, but I can't remember that.

But like I said, it has less to do with moderation and more with hyvemind/echo-chamber. Which is what the OP was talking about as well.

 

[duck_sauce]

There is a wide difference between here and Resetera.

For example, you would be banned for saying the opposite of what you're saying there instantly and the thread would have been permanently deleted.

On the flip side, actual racists and bigots get banned here quickly.....on Era they thrive and are celebrated.

I get that there are definitely differences between here and that other place. But sometimes, it feels like NeoGAF is slipping into the same kind of echo chamber vibe, just from the other direction. I’m all for having a space where people aren’t banned for every opposing view, but I think we start to cross a line where criticism of certain ideas just leads to more hostility and anger instead of real discussion.

 

[MarkMe2525]

It isn't. You would have to have been there to understand, I'm afraid.

I agree in the sense that you don't generally have to worry about a ban for being a contrarian here. There are other differences of course, but this one sticks out, as moderation doesn't steer the conversation here, as it does on the other forum.

 

[Topher]

duck_sauce

Well, assuming this isnt a bait thread you are not wrong but as someone who had an account there i can tell you that Gaf is much more tame. A lot of people there were annoying and the mods were insufferable, despite some genuinely good. I think it's good Gaf is somewhat the polar opposite.

I know for myself, and I think many others agree, I'd rather the subject of "woke" was something that never had to even be brought up. On Era, I was banned for saying something similar about politics in general as a subject. Even the slightest hint of dissent on Era can be met with such action. If we are going to talk about a "hivemind" then that's what I think of. This thread wouldn't exist on Era.

Read what I said.

Every time I see someone describe Era, it's they're talking about Gaf.
I don't need to visit Era for that.

I did read what you said and I think you do for the reason I just said above

 

[XXL]

It isn't. You would have to have been there to understand, I'm afraid.

Omg. The tag! Lol.

 

[justsomeguy]

The major difference between here and rainbow forum... is here any1 can voice their views

Fuck off alt acount of retardera cuckmodteam,

Made me laugh

 

[Humdinger]

Exhorting an entire community to behave differently rarely works, unless you're Martin Luther King, Jr. or someone like that. I appreciate you expressing your opinion, but it won't change anything. People will continue to have their opinions and behave as they see fit.

I agree that the anti-woke stuff gets out of hand sometimes, but so does the anti-anti-woke stuff. I think it's better to deal with it case-by-case, one-on-one, rather than in a "message to the community" like this. You inevitably end up lecturing to people who have not done what you're accusing them of doing, producing backlash. Better to speak up individually and directly in the threads where you think it is happening.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

It would be great if there was less conflict, but the reality is that art and game creation has been taken over by poltical activism and infested by an ideology that many average people find repugnant. It breaks the immersion for many when they're trying to indoctrinate through art with modern American liberal values with Trans/Non-binary/"Anti" Racism shit. The art becomes lesser for it hence why once successful IPs are now really struggling and studios are closing.

Therefore as long as they try and shove it down our throats and continue their takeover of the arts then you're going to get a sizeable amount who will push back and its now a big part of the discourse whether we like it or not.

Obviously people do get carried away amongst that and we should take a step back more often, work on our lives rather than get carried away with this stuff and support the games and arts we think are doing the right things.

 

[NickFire]

If the people making games (or movies) had listened to posters here a few years ago they could have saved hundreds of millions (or way more) industry wide.

Sorry not sorry OP. This place is no echo chamber. It’s just more representative of the actual audience than anywhere else dedicated to gaming.

 

[OverHeat]

Topher lol identify as young

 

[darrylgorn]

Is the OP a paradox?

 

[AJUMP23]

I appreciate the honesty and I will say that while I agree with pushing back against the woke cultural shift is good it can be tiresome. That is why I like to joke about it. It keeps me engaged and not enraged and gets my point across. We have had some great members here that our Trans and probably WOKE too. No issue with it, I just think it is weird to shove it and shoe horn it into everything you consume. Like the news media always trying to find angle to add race to the discussion.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Can anyone give us a simple example of these types of cases OP is referring to, like when someone makes a balanced or non-anti-woke statement and gets insulted and attacked for it? I may not read enough shit on here, but I've never really seen that. What I do see instead is we sometimes get a couple new users that passive aggressively try to stir up arguments and needless discussions about woke related stuff. When you have a forum this big, statistically you catch a psychopath of massive narcissist once in a while, and they enjoy doing that. All i can see here is an exchange of differing opinions, but very rarely below the lines that should never be crossed.

 

[Decal4]

Concord is almost like the final straw that has pushed anti-Woke (on Gaf) over the edge and effectively made them as poisonous and detrimental as Woke.

It's not like I never addressed this before and like clockwork, the reaction on Gaf to statements like these, ironically, is exactly like what you'd expect from the Woke-crowd and Cancel-culture.

I would argue that GAFs delight at concord failing is while probably over the top and arguably tone deaf if you squint (due strictly to game developers who did not have creative control losing jobs) is not the site at its finest.

But I contend that until such a time as there are entire generations of game studios that are having games not sell because they are just so... Whatever an anti-actual woke game looks like, I guess a game that rewards players acting out the dictionary definitions of bigotry and prejudice? And there are so many of those games that nobody can just have escapism from the modern political tribalism going around, so they end up not purchasing those games because they are sick unto death of the bigotry being injected into every single game so as to attract reverse modern audiences, I would not say gaf is anywhere near there.

Probably that is missing the point of what you are saying. I only write all that to show my POV that gaf is while somewhat oppositional in terms of direction, in terms of absolute value distance from dead center, gaf is much closer to that than other sites around.

And as far as the unpopular reaction goes, I don't think that is unique to this site, I think there is definitely standard human behavior of jumping on the bandwagon or, conversely, walking into a room with an audience that has a common set of views and then directly challenging those views to the entire room.

I don't expect to get a good reaction if I walk into a given church and start conducting Satanist rituals.

I also don't expect to get a good reaction if I walk into a political office of party A and start arguing all the policy planks of party B.

So I guess I'm contending here to convince you not to lay that same behaviors happening here as being a symptom of a disease necessarily, but being a current state of play on the sites current user makeup, and just like how groups can change in opinions over time, if you fast forward a few years, the sites current consensus will probably look different.

 

[Arsic]

You can just add posters to ignore list if you see they are always posting stupid shit.

That’s why the feature is there so you can filter out the dummies and look at actual posts to engage with.

 

[shamoomoo]

I'm not gonna play this game with you, your first post was already pretty clear on what are your thoughts.

No doubt there is some real racist inbetween the anti-woke brigade exactly lile there are some rotten apples in every group, but most of the people just want this shit out of their entertainment products.

No. Because when I hear people used the world "woke" they don't care about it's origin and original usage and folks general idea of being "woke" is whatever I don't like shouldn't be in the stuff I consume.

Also, you can speak for everyone now? Unless others gave you the right to speak for them, you can only speak for yourself.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I did read what you said and I think you do for the reason I just said above

And I'd file a reaction like this under lack of self-reflection.

One being worse doesn't mean the other is much different.

 

[GymWolf]

No. Because when I hear people used the world "woke" they don't care about it's origin and original usage and folks general idea of being "woke" is whatever I don't like shouldn't be in the stuff I consume.

Also, you can speak for everyone now? Unless others gave you the right to speak for them, you can only speak for yourself.

From the number of likes i'm getting, the number of woke projects that are failing compared to the successful ones and the very incipit of this topic that talk about gaf being mostly anti-woke to a fault, i can safely say that a lot of gamers are on my side, of course i can't speak for everyone, dah.