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[RJMacready73]

I don't see anything wrong with these practices. Any businesses goals is to push sales at every possible opportunity....

If you are too stupid or naive to fall for these obvious traps and you can't use your brains, then you deserve to lose out.

Also, if someone enjoys a product and has the money to spend on it. That's their full human right to spend the money earned how they want. Stop fucking judging people so fucking much when it comes to their personal finance choices.

Someone is making 6K a month and has to live off that. Then there are people who barely make 3K a month and are trying to survive.

Then there are people who make 20-30K+ a month, are you seriously going to tell those people to stop buying $20 Fortnite skins ? Fuck off.

100% agree, we can't contently legislate for fucking morons, children yes, these things should be completely illegal for under 18's but grown adults, if you wanna gamble your house away, drink yourself into oblivion or get obese eating McD's you do fucking you but don't come gurning to me over it

 

[brian0057]

There are steps that regulators and platform holders should implement to limit the damage of the practice.
Only real world currency should be used.
Any paid lootbox game should at least be a minimum age, 14+? Higher?
Odds made clear and auditable.
Perhaps some caps on daily spend.

A kid maxing out the limit on their dad's credit card or some asshole blowing his entire savings are not valid reasons to want the govermnet to tell you how you should spend your money.

 

[Swift_Star]

Loot boxes regulate themselves. It's nature really. Someone with a proclivity for gambling is bound to lose all their shit. This just hastens that. Why protect them? Let nature take it's course.

Nothing regulates itself. That’s false by principle.

 

[nominedomine]

Nothing regulates itself. That’s false by principle.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[STARSBarry]

A kid maxing out the limit on their dad's credit card or some asshole blowing his entire savings are not valid reasons to want the govermnet to tell you how you should spend your money.

....

So I assume your against all current regulations of current casino gambling as those two things are actually regulated, kids arnt allowed to gamble under 21 and people do indeed blow there entire savings in real life, however there are regulations to help soften that, minimum payout rates, maximum bets for machines etc...

Are people just unaware of these?

 

[brian0057]

....

So I assume your against all current regulations of current casino gambling as those two things are actually regulated, kids arnt allowed to gamble under 21 and people do indeed blow there entire savings in real life, however there are regulations to help soften that, minimum payout rates, maximum bets for machines etc...

Are people just unaware of these?

I don't care if you go bankrupt while playing blackjack.
Blame your own stupid decisions.
And if a kid is gambling, he needs better parents... or he needs parents to begin with (i.e. not the government)

I hate gambling, so I don't engage with it. Apparently, this is extremely hard to do.
And if you give me the "Oh, the addiction is real" rejoinder. it's BS. You're just weak. At least drug users actually inject/inhale/smoke shit into their bodies that changes their brain chemistry.
I don't see people wanting to regulate extreme sports. You know? Activities that actually get people killed?

 

[Kataploom]

"How consumers let themselves get exploit by loot boxes".

Unless they're children, I won't feel someone spending shitton of money on loot boxes is a corporate exploitation... I'll just call it individual economical irresponsibility if it damaged the person somehow.

 

[Elder Legend]

Haha. I am not a developer dude, but I do own a business and also provide freelance digital marketing services. So I guess you could say I am a bit biased on that end but at same trying too see it from both sides.

tell me you are a developer without telling me you are a developer

 

[Zeroing]

Haha. I am not a developer dude, but I do own a business and also provide freelance digital marketing services. So I guess you could say I am a bit biased on that end but at same trying too see it from both sides.

I am just teasing

 

[Decontamination Silo]

Nothing regulates itself. That’s false by principle.

No way. Nature regulates every biome. Any being that makes decisions outside of their prime directive pays price for it. All we do is try to interfere. Which recently has just been gumming up works and causing worse outcomes.

 

[Fuz]

Are loot boxes still much of a thing? Seems like everyone moved to microtransactions.

 

[Elder Legend]

I am just teasing

Wow gg. I got cucked.

 

[Chronicle]

INSERT COIN - How the gaming industry exploits morons using loot boxes​

I came in to say this. It's really all there is to it.

 

[Zeroing]

Wow gg. I got cucked.

What does that mean? I do not speak internet.

 

[winjer]

Let's hope this brings in some legislation that curbs these in game scams.
Videogames should be about playing games. Not about obfuscated gambling and predatory schemes to to prey on the unaware consumer.

 

[STARSBarry]

I don't care if you go bankrupt while playing blackjack.
Blame your own stupid decisions.
And if a kid is gambling, he needs better parents... or he needs parents to begin with (i.e. not the government)

I hate gambling, so I don't engage with it. Apparently, this is extremely hard to do.
And if you give me the "Oh, the addiction is real" rejoinder. it's BS. You're just weak. At least drug users actually inject/inhale/smoke shit into their bodies that changes their brain chemistry.
I don't see people wanting to regulate extreme sports. You know? Activities that actually get people killed?

Thank you for posting this, I would like everyone to take the time to read this and fully understand this mindset.

I would point out that every example given so far including extreme sports are regulated. From companies that can provide the services that come under this, to the equipment sold and the shops that sell them, you can't just purchase a parachute that for example is guaranteed to fail legally and if you are regulations would hold the person selling you it responsible.

But thank you for summaring your point here, especially helping us understand that you know little to nothing about gambling or the effects of gambling as you dont engage, your opinion has been very helpful.

Anyway back to the paper by a group of professionals about the impact of gambling within gaming...

 

[Jaybe]

....

So I assume your against all current regulations of current casino gambling as those two things are actually regulated, kids arnt allowed to gamble under 21 and people do indeed blow there entire savings in real life, however there are regulations to help soften that, minimum payout rates, maximum bets for machines etc...

Are people just unaware of these?

Guy seems to be some anarchist, no government type. Probably has a problem with basic rules like speed limits and bylaws, and is simply applying his childish mentality to the case of loot boxes.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For the kids part, it really shouldnt be an issue at all. Even if a Lego game has the most mtx on Earth. If the dumbass parents didn't give their kids access to their credit card on the profile, they couldnt buy any mtx to begin with.

For general issues, I dont see how anything can be done for adults with freedom to use their own credit cards. It's no different than sports betting or going to the track. If someone wants to blow their money every night trying to pick winners, they'll do it.

Only way to prevent it is if you ban him. Casinos can ban gamblers for whatever reason they want. Game companies can be legislate to limit how much mtx you can buy similar to how a credit card has a limit.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Exploit? or "offers value" and 'surprise mechanics'?

 

[March Climber]

Wait until streaming replaces local files in our systems. It's going to get a LOT worse.

This can't happen until the US fixes it's entire internet, cable, and ISP infrastructure. It's in such a bad state that it might not happen in our lifetime. Also, if anyone here are one of the very few fortunate US residents who happen to have Google fiber or a similar option, I'm not talking about you.

 

[jaysius]

The gaming industry is exploiting morons with nostalgia more than loot boxes, selling old roms on collections for $30+ is exploitation.

You'll rebuy your childhood, at a higher price and love it.

 

[STARSBarry]

Guy seems to be some anarchist, no government type. Probably has a problem with basic rules like speed limits and bylaws, and is simply applying his childish mentality to the case of loot boxes.

I don't get it either, if you don't engage, or want to engage why defend? As a direct consequence of this you have a chance for especially the mobile space providing some gaming experiences that are actually good...

Imagine if people had to try and sell there games based on how fun they are to play, rather than how many whales they can net though addictive practices.

You could get some top quality premium titles... mobile has the power these days. I also want this shit gone from the console space, once you start getting lootboxes in your single player games you know its gone too far.

 

[strange headache]

I don't see anything wrong with these practices. Any businesses goals is to push sales at every possible opportunity....If you are too stupid or naive to fall for these obvious traps and you can't use your brains, then you deserve to lose out.

I don't care if you go bankrupt while playing blackjack.
Blame your own stupid decisions.
And if a kid is gambling, he needs better parents... or he needs parents to begin with (i.e. not the government)

These are the reasons why regulators are stepping in.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I mean, your argument can be used to legitimize any money-making scheme under the sun. I could use the same argument to defend pyramids, or drug dealing.

Thank you for a good take, the first replies in this thread are painful to read.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

And if a kid is gambling, he needs better parents... or he needs parents to begin with (i.e. not the government)

I mentioned it once today, seems like people are still not getting it - children are not property of their parents’. It’s precisely government’s role to protect kids from the stupidity of their parents.

 

[brian0057]

Guy seems to be some anarchist, no government type. Probably has a problem with basic rules like speed limits and bylaws, and is simply applying his childish mentality to the case of loot boxes.

I'm not an anarchist. I know government is necessary for society to function.
You burning your savings on a blackjack table will not make me take pitty on you and support government regulations.

 

[Jaybe]

I'm not an anarchist. I know government is necessary for society to function.
You burning your savings on a blackjack table will not make me take pitty on you and support government regulations.

Are you going to take up the noble cause to repeal the all the existing gambling regulations already in place?

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

more .gov involvement is NOT the solution

 

[brian0057]

Are you going to take up the noble cause to repeal the all the existing gambling regulations already in place?

Given that people, both on this forum and elsewhere, recoil at the mere thought of taking responsibility for their own decisions and actions, I'd say that's a fool's errand.

 

[Fuz]

What does that mean? I do not speak internet.

He found his wife in bed with another guy.

 

[rushgore]

Do you get a random different outcome each time you buy a GP sub?
Yes. Depending on when you subscribe you'll get different games.

Is the outcome of buying a GP sub not predictable at the time of purchase?
It definitely is not. You don't know the games that we'll be added to it over time. Can you tell me the game that will be added in August 2022?

Do you need to buy multiple GP subs in order to achieve a specific outcome?
Yes. For example, if you expected Starfield in 2022 as but it got delayed, your sub might have run out.

I wasn't the one who came up with the analogy, I just ran with it but the more I think about it the more sense it makes. I don't like either, be it loot boxes or library rental services, ultimately both come down to obfuscating what your are really paying for, just buying games is a lot more straight forward to me.

You are probably the first person to confuse subscription services with gambling.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Gov has a role to help protect people and be last line of defence to rely on for help. But most things like this are an individual's choice. This isnt out of nowhere cancer treatment needed. For adults, it really comes down to how much you want babysit them like morons governing to the lowest common denominator deadbeat.

If I open up a lemonade stand and some guy walks buy and spend $100 buying every watered down cup of Minute Maid I put out there, why is it my fault or the gov's responsibility if it turns out that's his last $100 in his bank account? Sounds like the guy is an idiot.

For kids it's different. Thats why kids cant even be held liable for contracts, and most things like that you got to be an adult for it to be legal.

But in any case of a kids using their parents' credit card buying $1000s of mtx, thats the parents faults. Not anyone else. You can prevent your kid from accessing it, do safeguards on your profile, and even just delete your credit card info. When I buy things online, I never save my CC info because you never know if someone will hack into my account. I'll enter my CC info manually each time when I buy something. If I can do that why cant someone else? And I dont even have kids to worry about doing dopey purchases behind my back.

Numb nut parents leave their online profile exposed with CC, and they assume their moronic kids dont hijack it and buy tons of mtx with it. Sounds more like a parenting issue than a gaming company or gov issue.

But as usual, extreme cases of idiocy force government to look into it, even though 99% of the people are ok.

 

[Zeroing]

He found his wife in bed with another guy.

Oh. That’s a weird name for it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

He found his wife in bed with another guy.

He wanted her loot box.

 

[Wildebeest]

Game industry needs to learn that if you want your gambling to be legal and for suckers to have no protection, then you have to grease the palms of politicians big time.

 

[DavidGzz]

People can't control themselves. It's obvious when I look around and see 75% of them are obese in my area. Easily manipulated by adds from fast food to loot boxes. Sadge

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Game industry needs to learn that if you want your gambling to be legal and for suckers to have no protection, then you have to grease the palms of politicians big time.

If gov really cares about the public's health and safety, they'd crack down on weekly Walmart and grocery store flyers (or as Yanks call them "circulars").

That front page of hot deals always has chips, cookies, pop and whatever other junky crap they can entice consumers to load up on. It works on me too and I work in the industry. When I see a good price on chips and sugary drinks I buy them too.

What they can do is legislate shit foods to be buried in the middle of the flyer so people miss it and only have nutritious foods on the front page, but good luck getting that passed. That would do wonders for public health as food items that are not front or back page have a fraction of the sales boost no matter what hot price you set it at.

 

[Elder Legend]

These are the reasons why regulators are stepping in.

So regulators are responsible now for their children or people who can't control gambling addictions? Yeah ok, it's not like psychologists or psychiatrists exist or anything. Moot statement trying to sound smart.

You know what separates successful people from not so successful people? I'll tell you what.

1 - Self control
2 - Discipline
3 - Focus

Why do addicts have issues in their life? No ability to think for themselves. They follow the sheep. Bad education or a lack rather. No self control of drinking, smoking or whatever. No discipline and understanding of time. Why should I feel bad for those people? Yes it sucks I get that, but if they truly cared for themselves then they are the only ones who climb out of that hole by either getting mental help or trying to better their lives.

 

[Boss Mog]

I don't have an addictive personality so I never really understood the problem with lootboxes since I've never bought any nor have I ever been tempted to buy any. But I can see how they could be a problem for some with no self-control and today's shitty instant-gratification generation.

 

[strange headache]

So regulators are responsible now for their children or people who can't control gambling addictions? Yeah ok, it's not like psychologists or psychiatrists exist or anything.. moot statement trying to sound smart.

Judging by the sheer ignorance of your comments, I'm not surprised to see you work in games journalism and digital marketing.

 

[Elder Legend]

Judging by the sheer ignorance of your comments, I'm not surprised to see you work in games journalism and digital marketing.

Wow.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don't have an addictive personality so I never really understood the problem with lootboxes since I've never bought any nor have I ever been tempted to buy any. But I can see how they could be a problem for some with no self-control and today's shitty instant-gratification generation.

Yup.

It's a triple dose of doom for many. Self gratification, got to keep up being competitive, and with the digital world you got super quick purchases with your credit card on profile. No wonder mtx revenue is through the roof.

For those of you raised during the internet age and online sales are the norm, back in the day when you wanted to buy an add on for a PC game (expansion pack, sports team/player discs etc....) you either had to be lucky and a computer shop carried it, or you fucking fill in a mail in card with a cheque or write in your CC info. Then wait forever to get it. Were talking the old days of mail order where shit from the US to hit Canada would be 6-8 weeks. No such thing as Amazon two-day delivery service.

So even if someone was an addict back then, the barriers to loading up on games and add-on content was a lot more work and waiting. It gets to a point me and my bros might see some PC games we can order from the US, but since it'd take up to two months to arrive, we'd just say forget it. Now, it's click "Congrats on our $5 purchase of an AK47 skin or EA Ultimate Card pack"

 

[Wildebeest]

If gov really cares about the public's health and safety, they'd crack down on weekly Walmart and grocery store flyers (or as Yanks call them "circulars").

That front page of hot deals always has chips, cookies, pop and whatever other junky crap they can entice consumers to load up on. It works on me too and I work in the industry. When I see a good price on chips and sugary drinks I buy them too.

What they can do is legislate shit foods to be buried in the middle of the flyer so people miss it and only have nutritious foods on the front page, but good luck getting that passed. That would do wonders for public health as food items that are not front or back page have a fraction of the sales boost no matter what hot price you set it at.

Food industry lobby has learned a lot from the tobacco lobby. Those dudes know what they are doing, and they are not passive.

Maybe life is just a little easier for politicians if they can show people that they are actually doing their job. That is why they need to be sweetened up a bit to even just look the other way and pretend nothing is happening. These game industry chuckleheads who are saying that everything is just hunky-dory with gambling in games need to remember, it is only obvious to them because they are incentivized with money and career success.

 

[strange headache]

You know what separates successful people from not so successful people? I'll tell you what.

1 - Self control
2 - Discipline
3 - Focus

In other news, water is wet.
This tautological argument adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and has no bearing whatsoever on the issues at hand.

Why do addicts have issues in their life? No ability to think for themselves.

So all addicts are stupid?
This is such a reductive take on the complex issue of addictive behavior, it is borderline insulting and shows absolutely zero respect and care for your fellow human beings.

Intelligence has nothing do to with addictive behavior. In many cases you are already born with genetical markers for addiction and depending on your life circumstances you have very little control over them. Intelligence might help you rationalize your behavior, but it is still a constant struggle. Not everybody has the same propensity for addictive behavior, but in the vast sea of different addictions, everybody is struggling with something to different degrees.

So no, addictive behavior is not just a mere question of discipline and self control. The reason why neuromarketing works so well, is because it is effective at sidestepping your cognitive decision-making capabilities and directly appeals to your impulsive sub-consciousness. There is very little that people, who are prone to these techniques, can do to protect themselves. Even people without notable addiction markers are finding it difficult to resist the temptations put forwards by neuromarketing techniques.

As a "digital marketing consultant" you of all people should be very well aware of the dangers of neuromarketing.

Modern society is based on the idea of solidarity, i.e. that we need to protect vulnerable groups from greater harm. Alcohol, gambling, tobacco... these things are regulated for good reasons and the same needs to happen to lootboxes and MTX.

Wow.

I'm sorry but the absolute uninformed stance in your posts is just stunning.

 

[Damigos]

I meant Season Passes, not Game Pass. My mistake

 

[RJMacready73]

I just downloaded this to see what all the fuss is about and I gotta say it's pretty class, graphics are brilliant, gameplay is Diablo and plays well on my S22 Ultra, what's not to like, the fucking thing was free and will give me a good few hours entertainment, the moment the game becomes a grind it's uninstalled and I move on... Hardly worth all the shite being flung at it tbh

 

[Daytonabot]

I'm glad a bunch of socialists are here to protect us from ourselves and play the roles of parents for kids.

 

[Swift_Star]

I don't care if you go bankrupt while playing blackjack.
Blame your own stupid decisions.
And if a kid is gambling, he needs better parents... or he needs parents to begin with (i.e. not the government)

I hate gambling, so I don't engage with it. Apparently, this is extremely hard to do.
And if you give me the "Oh, the addiction is real" rejoinder. it's BS. You're just weak. At least drug users actually inject/inhale/smoke shit into their bodies that changes their brain chemistry.
I don't see people wanting to regulate extreme sports. You know? Activities that actually get people killed?

that’s really bad approach. Fortunately in the real world and in decent countries, that’s not how it works.

On another topic, I’m glad to see there are people in GAF that understand that regulations are necessary. It’s amusing these people are the same that want to sue companies for some things, well you can only do that because of SURPRISE regulations.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

If publishers/developers choose not to sell games in those territories that would be there decision as well. If a consumer really wants to access to a game or a game's content they can acquire it any number of ways outside of normal distribution channels.