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Japan Studio closed because the double-A market has ‘disappeared’, says Shuhei Yoshida

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Shuhei-Japan-Stu-1024x576.jpg

Yoshida, who left PlayStation earlier this year after a 30-year career, has given several interviews about his time at PlayStation. The latest comes from the Sacred Symbols PlayStation Podcast.

When asked about the closure of PlayStation’s Japan Studio, and fan perception about PlayStation losing its Japanese influence, Yoshida claimed that it was the market that dictated Sony‘s shift in focus away from Japan Studio IP.
“During my time, people give me credit, but one of the things I was not successful at was having a successful service game, and the other thing is I was not able to have amazingly successful games made in Japan,” Yoshida explained.

“Other than Gran Turismo, we had many great products but didn’t really have many triple-A-level successful products. That became more and more important as the big games became bigger – the indies filled the gap and the double-A market seems to have disappeared,” he told the Sacred Symbols + podcast.

“Most of the IPs that Japan Studio had were in that smaller double-A sized group and the market became really difficult for these kinds of games. For example, after Gravity Rush 2, [director Keiichiro Toyama] tried to come up with a new concept, but we were not able to greenlight any of his new concepts, even though they were really interesting.”
Speaking more about Toyama, Yoshida said: “In my mind, I remember his product looked like something the company wouldn’t support, the company was looking for triple-A titles, and we really struggled to get the game going. So when Japan Studios was shut down and he became independent, he was able to create and release Slitterhead.”

Yoshida also cites the upcoming Patapon spiritual sequel Ratatan as the type of game that Sony wouldn’t currently make but continues Japan Studio’s legacy.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I think someone was giving me shit yesterday for saying that Sony doesn't really support AA currently like Xbox 1st party does. Glad I didn't have to wait 5 years to get validated this time.

It says it right there plain as day. Sony only wants to make AAA stuff currently. It's a different strategy from Xbox and Nintendo. Its just a fact.
 
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well, modern AAs have the budgets of yesterdays AAAs so that is probably gonna change because only the biggest developers can still do AAA anymore.
I´m curious how far this nonsense will go before it really crashes. How many Suicide Squads or Concords can the industry take before the reset button has to be hit? ......Or the western developers will simply be replaced with Chinese ones.
 
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RagnarokIV

Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
I think someone was giving me shit yesterday for saying that Sony doesn't really support AA currently like Xbox 1st party does. Glad I didn't have to wait 5 years to get validated this time.

It says it right there plain as day. Sony only wants to make AAA stuff currently. It's a different strategy from Xbox and Nintendo. Its just a fact.
Donald Trump Republicans GIF by Election 2016
 

Mr Moose

Member
I think someone was giving me shit yesterday for saying that Sony doesn't really support AA currently like Xbox 1st party does. Glad I didn't have to wait 5 years to get validated this time.

It says it right there plain as day. Sony only wants to make AAA stuff currently. It's a different strategy from Xbox and Nintendo. Its just a fact.
MicroSoft are making AAAA games these days.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
MicroSoft are making AAAA games these days.
Jokes aside, Obsidian, Double Fine, Undead Labs, inXile, Compulsion all are AA studios. Nintendo also puts out tons of AA stuff. It really is only Sony 1st party that doesn't. It shouldn't even be a controversial point since it's plainly there for people to see. But now at least we have the guy on the inside explicitly stating it for people that can't see.
 
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Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
So dumb. And completely false.

Shu baby... the amount of AA games that have been great far exceeds the aaa games that have been released in that time period.

Dredge, signalis, vampire survivor.... the list goes on. Massive shit in pants moment for Shu
Those are bad examples since they're all indie games. Signalis was made by 2 devs (husband and wife).
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
I think someone was giving me shit yesterday for saying that Sony doesn't really support AA currently like Xbox 1st party does. Glad I didn't have to wait 5 years to get validated this time.

It says it right there plain as day. Sony only wants to make AAA stuff currently. It's a different strategy from Xbox and Nintendo. It's just a fact.
And you know what? Good. We aren't paying half a grand for "AA" games. I would argue that such a market never existed in the way people think it did. And those all-mid games that did exist didn't sell.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Jokes aside, Obsidian, Double Fine, Undead Labs, Compulsion all are AA studios. Nintendo also puts out tons of AA stuff. It really is only Sony 1st party that doesn't. It shouldn't even be a controversial point since it's plainly there for people to see. But now at least we have the guy on the inside explicitly stating it for people that can't see.
Are Obsidian AA?
Yeah most of Nintendos are AA, they are lucky with the weak console.
 

Killjoy-NL

Member
I think someone was giving me shit yesterday for saying that Sony doesn't really support AA currently like Xbox 1st party does. Glad I didn't have to wait 5 years to get validated this time.

It says it right there plain as day. Sony only wants to make AAA stuff currently. It's a different strategy from Xbox and Nintendo. Its just a fact.
You leave out the most important key-factor:
The market dictated it.
Sony is currently adapting to it.

And it's true, look at sales of AA games, like Astro, Stellar Blade, Indy and now Avowed. They're not setting the world on fire.
It's not feasible to focus your business on that.
 
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Astray

Member
With the decline of western AAA, I wonder if there’s now a gap in the market for AA again.

Think about how many genres we’ve seen go away only to have big comebacks.
There isn't. The industry is trying to figure out how to make AAA cheaper, not make AA.
So dumb. And completely false.

Shu baby... the amount of AA games that have been great far exceeds the aaa games that have been released in that time period.

Dredge, signalis, vampire survivor.... the list goes on. Massive shit in pants moment for Shu
AA gaming has completely collapsed in recent years. The idea that people should fund these games with basically zero ROI is insane.
Astrobot was a AA game
That was a full-blooded AAA game.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Are Obsidian AA?
Yeah most of Nintendos are AA, they are lucky with the weak console.
Personally I would say so. Avowed is their best looking game by far but still made by less than 100 people. They automate things like animations for NPCs and facial lip sync instead of manually doing it and spending for all that staff. They've always been AA.
 
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Astray

Member
Personally I would say so. Avowed is their best looking game by far but still made by less than 100 people. They automate things like animations for NPCs and facial lip sync instead of manually doing it and spending for all that staff. They've always been AA.
Avowed is a full AAA game. It had Times Square advertising ffs!

Almost all of the stuff you like is either an outright indie or a AAA on the cheap side.
 

RedC

Member
What is considered AA...i mean where is the line to AAA? Is there any standard?
It's usually considered by overall budget, but where the lines are drawn is always in flux.

Personally I think if your game's standard version's price to the consumer is at the industry standard (right now it's $69.99), then it is operating in the Triple AAA space regardless of how big or small a game's budget is.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Yeah, and we'll see just how long Microsoft funds that mild success. Going "AA" worked very well for Tango Gameworks. Oh wait...
Part of the death of AA is the market leader only marketing the top of the top AAA budget stuff with their 1st party and skewing people's expectations. A lot of PS gamer taste has never been more conservative, so I agree with your previous post saying "good" in a sense. I think a lot of PS gamers do think that way, because they were taught to think that way just in the later PS4 / PS5 gen. Switch having a more broad selection of 1st party budget games I think also is what helps indie sales on that platform so much. The audience is more used to non-AAA games there.

I like AA and that's one of the main reasons I switched over to Xbox actually. I also got Slitterhead. All I can do is buy what I like, so the rest is out my hands. Bought Hi-Fi Rush as well, which was fantastic. Will buy the sequel.
 

Astray

Member
I won't tell you what to think, but I totally disagree. That's what the whole "mild success" and lasting for 100 years comment was about.
It just means they are keeping expectations and budgets manageable, which is sensible business and I said so in the thread.

But this idea that Avowed isn't AAA is delusion. AAs don't get anywhere near the press Avowed got, nor the amount of advertising it got either, you do this for your big tent-pole releases, not your small fry stuff.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
I think a lot of PS gamers do think that way, because they were taught to think that way just in the later PS4 / PS5 gen.
lol no
This is always the way tastes have been. For 3 gens we didn't even have indie games on console. PS1 and PS2 were both machines for AAA games. That's always been what's sold. Japan Studios games haven't been selling commensurate with other FP studios games since the PS3. Did you buy The Puppeteer?

The only people who have been "taught" anything are Xbox and Nintendo gamers by way of laziness and defeat. You guys were throwing around IndieStation 4 for the first half of the PS4's lifecycle. Now you're disingenuously twerking for subscription fodder you neither play in large quantities or would pay 60-70 bucks for.
 

pudel

Member
It's usually considered by overall budget, but where the lines are drawn is always in flux.

Personally I think if you're game's standard version's price to the consumer is at the industry standard (right now it's $69.99), then it is operating in the Triple AAA space regardless of how big or low a game's budget is.
I always thought that AA and AAA are related only to the budget of a game. The price doesnt matter at all imho. If GTA would be sold for 40 bucks (wishful thinking i know) it doesnt make it an AA title, right!?

Its just difficult for me to discuss something useful here if no one even knows how AA is defined compared to AAA. 🤷‍♂️
 

hemo memo

You can't die before your death
Shu's explanation for the decline of Japan Studio reeks of corporate deflection and a profound misunderstanding of the gaming landscape. His assertion that the "double-A market disappeared" is a lazy generalization, a convenient excuse for a failure to adapt. To claim that a market segment simply vanished ignores the vibrant indie scene and the countless mid-sized titles that thrive by embracing innovation and niche audiences. This narrative conveniently shifts blame away from Sony's internal decisions, suggesting that external forces, rather than strategic missteps, led to Japan Studio's demise.

His account of Keiichiro Toyama's rejected concepts paints a picture of a company stifling creativity in favor of safe, predictable AAA returns. "We were not able to greenlight any of his new concepts" is a bureaucratic platitude that masks a fundamental lack of vision. Instead of nurturing talent and taking calculated risks, Sony appears to have prioritized chasing trends, a strategy that ultimately homogenizes the gaming market. His following statement, that the company wanted only AAA titles, while also stating that Japan studio held many double A titles, shows a clear contradiction, and lack of clarity.

The claim that Sony exclusively sought AAA titles is equally flawed. Japan Studio's legacy is built on a diverse portfolio, and to suggest otherwise is a disservice to its creative output. Moreover, ignoring niche markets, as Sony appears to have done, disregards the passionate fan bases that can sustain and elevate a studio. In essence, Yoshida's statements betray a defensive posture, a reluctance to acknowledge potential internal failings. His narrative prioritizes corporate justification over a candid assessment of the factors that contributed to Japan Studio's unfortunate closure.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
How anyone continues to question the closing of Japan Studio after Astro Bot and Slitterhead released is beyond me...
Slitterhead was sick. Imagine how insane it would have been if it had the budget of Gravity Rush 2. Would have been one of the best games this gen. They literally self-published it as a new studio, so they didn't have access to that kind of upper AA budget even but it's still really fun. I'm sure you didn't play it.
 
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Astro Bot has +700 people credited on Moby Games.

Development of Astro Bot started almost immediately after Astro's Playroom was completed, and took roughly three years with a development team of around 60 people. It is reportedly the largest game that Team Asobi has developed.



A lot of that 700 is thanks, marketing, and admin listed as well. Over 200 is just thanks 😂
 
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RedC

Member
I always thought that AA and AAA are related only to the budget of a game. The price doesnt matter at all imho. If GTA would be sold for 40 bucks (wishful thinking i know) it doesnt make it an AA title, right!?

Its just difficult for me to discuss something useful here if no one even knows how AA is defined compared to AAA. 🤷‍♂️
I completely understand, but the lines have become so blurred between indie, AA, and AAA that they are often difficult to discern.

Combined with inflation, yesterday's AAA budget is today's AA budget

Not to mention there are a select few AAA games whose budgets dwarf the average AAA budget, so they should be put in a different category such as AAAA games.

So to me as a consumer, the best method I use is the industry standard pricing for the standard version of the game at $69.99. At that price, I don't care how small your budget is, consumers will have AAA expectations.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I’m

Development of Astro Bot started almost immediately after Astro's Playroom was completed, and took roughly three years with a development team of around 60 people. It is reportedly the largest game that Team Asobi has developed


It undercuts my own point, but I'd categorize it as AA as well. Maybe AA+ if you want to get nerdy. Hellblade 2 also is AA+. Space Marine 2. There are some AA budget games with enough focus on graphical presentation to pass for AAA, but they aren't. Maybe Sony will at least do that much in the future. AAA appearance, but smaller teams and smaller scope games.
 
It undercuts my own point, but I'd categorize it as AA as well. Maybe AA+ if you want to get nerdy. Hellblade 2 also is AA+. Space Marine 2. There are some AA budget games with enough focus on graphical presentation to pass for AAA, but they aren't. Maybe Sony will at least do that much in the future. AAA appearance, but smaller teams and smaller scope games.
As it should be. 8-16 hours games are perfect. Astro was what $60 at launch and was a 7-12 hour base game I don’t recall the price vs gameplay being an issue.
 
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ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
Moreover, ignoring niche markets, as Sony appears to have done, disregards the passionate fan bases that can sustain and elevate a studio.
The problem is that Japan Studio had been around for more than 20 years by the time they closed shop, and this passionate fanbase elevated not a single one of their games. Gravity Rush 2 sold less than 900k by all estimates. They took 10 years on The Last Guardian, and then the game bombed.
 
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