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[ChorizoPicozo]

damn, people are destroying Jezz on Twitter. the Xbox community is in complete chaos and somehow, still in denial.

 

[AtomicStarving]

Anyone can see that from miles away. Satya Nadella doesn't give a shit about exclusive shit...

 

[jwaxeman]

As we eagerly await and anticipate xbox to ride off into the sunset, we must now take this time to ponder and reflect

I know we all really wish it was this simple but they are going to keep making hardware and keep giving us wishy-washy answers for years to come.

 

[Banjo64]

damn, people are destroying Jezz on Twitter. the Xbox community is in complete chaos and somehow, still in denial.

There’s a fascinating case study somewhere in all of this. At this stage I can’t believe there’s still a hardcore Xbox contingent left at all. Not to say you can’t like some of the games, but going in to battle for them from a hardware perspective, why would you?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

damn, people are destroying Jezz on Twitter. the Xbox community is in complete chaos and somehow, still in denial.

Links to the funnies?

 

[ChoosableOne]

-Future Xbox-Hardware gonna be for fans who want it
- Xbox hardware will be niche like Steam Deck

 

[Wulfer]

Yea, it is and wait until you see what Forza Horizon does to Sony's leader board. Sony will just give up trying to top that one. If Sony Gets Horizon on Playstation its over for arcade racers, that game is almost damn perfect!

 

[Jaybe]

Wonder if they will bother porting Forza Horizon 5 to PlayStation or simply wait until Forza Horizon 6 is done and launch that day 1 on PS5 with the Xbox Series and PC versions. These Forza Horizon games always seem to get pulled due to car licensing issues after 4 or so years, so FH5 may not be worth it at this point.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Releasing an exorbitantly expensive console(depending when this thing hits) in an era where inflationary pressures are drowning many people, or also in a market where a certain price is expected(console-ish) is certainly a move.

Not sure if it's the right one, but we shall see.

Current model hasn't worked so time to try something different.

I would prefer they cleaned house and brought in people who actually can recognize a great game and make them Xbox exclusive but that model doesn't seem to being brought up in Xbox roundtable meetings.

 

[sendit]

Yea, it is and wait until you see what Forza Horizon does to Sony's leader board. Sony will just give up trying to top that one. If Sony Gets Horizon on Playstation its over for arcade racers, that game is almost damn perfect!

When has Sony tried to top Forza Horizon? Forza Horizon is an open world racing game. However, Microsoft has tried to top GT with Forza, which it's latest installment completely failed and pretty much killed the non-Horizon franchise.

 

[Varteras]

Current model hasn't worked so time to try something different.

I would prefer they cleaned house and brought in people who actually can recognize a great game and make them Xbox exclusive but that model doesn't seem to being brought up in Xbox roundtable meetings.

Do you think their stubborn refusal to find quality leadership is gonna bite them in the ass even as a third-party?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Yea, it is and wait until you see what Forza Horizon does to Sony's leader board. Sony will just give up trying to top that one. If Sony Gets Horizon on Playstation its over for arcade racers, that game is almost damn perfect!

What game/games have Sony put out that tried to compete with or top Horizon?

 

[Woopah]

Portable PC gaming is super important in Asia. Sony might have a big problem going forward. Switch 2 is gonna be stronger competition. I know alot of people who had ps3s and ps4s which don't buy sony consoles anymore because they get most japanese games on Switch now. Sony is also loosing more and more players to mobile and pc and I dont see that changing with their current strategy. So if Xbox is going this route it might steal even more of sonys cake.

And like we saw in the paramount rumor. Sony isn't willing to really help their gaming division dominate like it used to. Sony is gonna fuck this up big time.

A Switch 2 with stronger third party support would be a bigger threat to PlayStation in Asia. But Xbox doesn't have the software of brand power to be a threat there.

Why do people talk of the 360 generation as if it is the golden age of xbox? RROD and their subsequent lying about the matter was the true beginning of the end for the brand; console gamers got their introduction to the real msft. RROD followed by the xbox one launch reveal combined with PS learning their lessons from PS3 and it was game over.

That was when Xbox had its most critical and commercial success. 360 was very strong in the 2nd half of its life, way after RROD was known.

If this is true, it's the natural result of letting your existing exclusive IPs atrophy to the point of irrelevance, and not investing in big new system selling IPs. With what they paid for Bethesda and ABK, they could have funded more than a dozen big new AAA games, a bunch of $40-$50 AA games, a bunch of indies, and dropped the price on their multiplayer service.

If the goal all along was to get out of the walled-garden hardware game and become a software publisher, then bravo. Seems like Phil has steered the ship well. It just seems unlikely that was their intent at any point prior to 2022...

It doesn't work like that, as CapEx is different from OpEx.

Fundamentally it is pretty clear that the current console hardware strategy just does not work for anybody except those who want low margins (and Nintendo but that's only true for Switch for now). People can argue on "oh no people won't subscribe to Game Pass" or MSFT won't collect money from Xbox Live. Microsoft is not about high revenue, they are about high profits and that's not something available in pure hardware. Even with paid online. I mean SIE has like 30b revenue with 3b profits at best despite selling more consoles, having paid online and nickel and dime for everything.

I think the next gen hardware will be something Microsoft won't lose money on but won't care much (just like Surface). And that's fine because we clearly see from the market that people play COD, FIFA, GTA, Fortnite, Minecraft and Microsoft owns COD and Minecraft. I think the low margins and ABK process made Microsoft realise that the hardware by itself just not worth that much.

It is also interesting how it will play out for Nintendo as Super Nintendo Switch has a BC, meaning that a lot of people who owned Switch will buy Super Switch but they would be the same people. So unless Nintendo will sell consoles with a profit at once, it won't change much for them either. Same trap as PS4 and PS5 has where people move from PS4 and PS5 but those are the same people with the hardware that is less profitable than PS4.

A big chunk of PS5 owners were new customers. And even if they were existing customers, a new successful console will still lead to rising hardware and software sales.

My favourite Simpsons episode.

 

[IDappa]

Yeah, I think this is an almost impossible win for Microsoft.

They will be staring at a competition between them, Sony, Valve and Nintendo in the portable market, but Microsoft is essentially forfeiting their rights as a platform holder, they will just be a hub.

Valve, Sony and Nintendo will hold a much stronger position and if a portable version of a game is to be made, you can bet their platforms will be the focus of optimization, not Microsoft's. They will have an ecosystem, Microsoft won't, because we know Steam players won't migrate to the MS Store. What Microsoft's portable will be is just the next Steam Deck copycat, but with crazy levels of competition to go against, and not just the Steam Deck itself like it's now.

Who in their right minds will see the trifecta of Sony, Nintendo and Valve each with their own portable machines and their own ecosystems and go for the Microsoft one? What will that have to offer that the others won't?

Plus, not being a platform holder also means what someone else here said, they can't count on subsidizing their consoles anymore since they won't be getting their 30% cut. This strategy, to me, is bound to fail like all their other ones.

It’ll have gamepass, cross buy, cross save, instant resume among whatever else I’m missing. If you’ve already bought into Microsoft’s ecosystem you’ll still want access to your games plus you’ll have access to steam, epic launcher and most likely by default PlayStation exclusives that go to pc (imo will be day one eventually).

From what I’ve seen the steam deck and rog are great machine with some flaws. If Microsoft can make a machine that is boot up and play friendly with multiple storefronts then it’s a win. Would be the best place for pricing for any console player.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

There’s a fascinating case study somewhere in all of this. At this stage I can’t believe there’s still a hardcore Xbox contingent left at all. Not to say you can’t like some of the games, but going in to battle for them from a hardware perspective, why would you?

it's pretty damn clear.

Xbox took advantage of those kind of people to make Damage Control, Spin. (everething is ok, it's part of the plan, Xbox's domination is going to happen, just wait until next year...etcetera).
to appease or complete gaslit the average Xbox fan. and now that reality has sucker punched them some of them are still trying to recover.

Links to the funnies?

Spanish speaking people really hate jez. which is understandable. In Mexico Xbox is (was?) more popular than PS.

 

[ChiefDada]

I think that is code for saying this thing is going to be expensive and will sell a hell of a lot less units than Xbox consoles.

If someone can make sense of the economics of an ultra premium, manufacturing cost-heavy console from a company that's currently last place in the market, then I'm all ears. How will you price the games in order to have a hope of positive returns? What developer will be able and willing to code their game to spec to take advantage of the premium hardware with a presumably much smaller audience? They haven't even solved this equation for the relatively cheap 9th gen console they sell today.

 

[rm082e]

It doesn't work like that, as CapEx is different from OpEx.

True. Corporate math is silly.

 

[Topher]

If someone can make sense of the economics of an ultra premium, manufacturing cost-heavy console from a company that's currently last place in the market, then I'm all ears. How will you price the games in order to have a hope of positive returns? What developer will be able and willing to code their game to spec to take advantage of the premium hardware with a presumably much smaller audience? They haven't even solved this equation for the relatively cheap 9th gen console they sell today.

Replacing that console with a $1000 PC and competing against other PC manufacturers. Effectively removing themselves from the console war and trying to make money off the hardware. The rest of Microsoft Gaming will become a full-fledge third party publisher at some point.

That's my guess.

 

[THE DUCK]

If someone can make sense of the economics of an ultra premium, manufacturing cost-heavy console from a company that's currently last place in the market, then I'm all ears. How will you price the games in order to have a hope of positive returns? What developer will be able and willing to code their game to spec to take advantage of the premium hardware with a presumably much smaller audience? They haven't even solved this equation for the relatively cheap 9th gen console they sell today.

One would think at the very least that if they have a box that truely outperforms all others on the market, it will have at least some enhanced appeal over series X. Also likely why they might look at something like dual boot to steam, enhances its value and versatility. As to support, porting a game to this box wouldn't like cost much, with simular to pc architecture.

As to units sold, it's not going to be a ton, but perhaps they see this as an addition to console sales, expansion to other platforms, and perhaps a portable too. Maybe actually delivering on the "xbox everywhere" idea instead of all eggs in one basket.

 

[CLW]

I mean that’s been OBVIOUS to EVERYONE other than Colt Eastwood for at least a year now.

They devalued their hardware to nothing so of course NOONE is going to buy it

 

[Bry0]

Replacing that console with a $1000 PC and competing against other PC manufacturers. Effectively removing themselves from the console war and trying to make money off the hardware. The rest of Microsoft Gaming will become a full-fledge third party publisher at some point.

That's my guess.

Yup. The hardware won’t be subsidized, this is not the traditional console model anymore. If it can run a full desktop OS and play pc games or games from steam that would be a big value add over a closed platform like PS that may make the cost worthwhile for some, but their aim is clearly not to directly compete with PS if they go this route.

 

[Topher]

Yup. The hardware won’t be subsidized, this is not the traditional console model anymore. If it can run a full desktop OS and play pc games or games from steam that would be a big value add over a closed platform like PS that may make the cost worthwhile for some, but their aim is clearly not to directly compete with PS if they go this route.

It's like what HeisenbergFX4 and myself have been saying for a while now. What they are doing ain't working. They gotta try something else if they want to stay in the hardware market and clearly they want to stay in the hardware market.

 

[King Dazzar]

Wonder if they will bother porting Forza Horizon 5 to PlayStation or simply wait until Forza Horizon 6 is done and launch that day 1 on PS5 with the Xbox Series and PC versions. These Forza Horizon games always seem to get pulled due to car licensing issues after 4 or so years, so FH5 may not be worth it at this point.

Yeah I was surprised when FH3 got delisted. But I dunno, FH4 is still fine and it was released back in 2018 iirc. Its because FH5 is ageing, I think it the perfect candidate for bringing it across. It'd do really well I reckon. Its an interesting one about the licensing though....

 

[Bry0]

It's like what HeisenbergFX4 and myself have been saying for a while now. What they are doing ain't working. They gotta try something else if they want to stay in the hardware market and clearly they want to stay in the hardware market.

As a primarily PC gamer I find this concept really compelling tbh. I’m certainly interested to see more because there’s just too much smoke.
I just have this hunch maybe the windows “corepc” work to modularize windows has something to do with this. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[Oppoi]

damn, people are destroying Jezz on Twitter. the Xbox community is in complete chaos and somehow, still in denial.

The internal conflict at the heart of Xbox is real. I enjoy the comedy and I'm thankful for them providing me something to shamelessly hate and feel good about it.

 

[Crayon]

There’s a fascinating case study somewhere in all of this. At this stage I can’t believe there’s still a hardcore Xbox contingent left at all. Not to say you can’t like some of the games, but going in to battle for them from a hardware perspective, why would you?

Because ms is bravely leading us into the future, and the console (sony) market will die next year, next year, next year, next year, next year, next year, next year, next year.

The faith never falters for more than like two weeks, then it's back on Phil's nuts.

 

[Topher]

As a primarily PC gamer I find this concept really compelling tbh. I’m certainly interested to see more because there’s just too much smoke.
I just have this hunch maybe the windows “corepc” work to modularize windows has something to do with this. Pure speculation on my part.

Yeah....I can see a market for this especially if they are able to keep the small form factor. I'd love to install windows on my XSX. That would be a kick ass little PC.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

There’s a fascinating case study somewhere in all of this. At this stage I can’t believe there’s still a hardcore Xbox contingent left at all. Not to say you can’t like some of the games, but going in to battle for them from a hardware perspective, why would you?

They've switched to "consoles are dying everyone will go PC eventually...except Nintendo. But Sony should totally copy MS strategy and not Nintendo. No don't look at Nintendo profits!"

 

[rm082e]

If someone can make sense of the economics of an ultra premium, manufacturing cost-heavy console from a company that's currently last place in the market, then I'm all ears. How will you price the games in order to have a hope of positive returns? What developer will be able and willing to code their game to spec to take advantage of the premium hardware with a presumably much smaller audience? They haven't even solved this equation for the relatively cheap 9th gen console they sell today.

Hence it would just make sense if the new Xbox hardware ran PC games. Then no special work is required to get the games running on their hardware.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Yeah....I can see a market for this especially if they are able to keep the small form factor. I'd love to install windows on my XSX. That would be a kick ass little PC.

Imagine a 4070 Super (+/-) levels of power in a small form factor Xbox that can run Steam for around $1000 and launches close to GTA6 and is clearly the best place to play it

I wasn't going to buy the nextbox but would buy this

 

[BlackTron]

Why do people talk of the 360 generation as if it is the golden age of xbox?

Because they had a console that people actually furiously wanted to replace when it broke.

 

[bender]

It's like what HeisenbergFX4 and myself have been saying for a while now. What they are doing ain't working. They gotta try something else if they want to stay in the hardware market and clearly they want to stay in the hardware market.

And they'll call it PC2.

 

[jwaxeman]

I’m just here to remind everyone that they still never confirmed Blade as an exclusive lmao

 

[Bernoulli]

Ill only share this.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Hence it would just make sense if the new Xbox hardware ran PC games. Then no special work is required to get the games running on their hardware.

That's not really a console anymore though is it? It's just an extra storefront pre installed on your PC

 

[sachos]

Steam Deck can have pre compiled shaders thanks to being fixed hardware and that enables it to have less stuttering in some games like Elden Ring. If devs could do that to PC games coming to a $1k Xbox that would be pretty cool. There is also potential that it forces Sony to develop luxury $1k Playstations for their hardcore audience, so there is a plus there too.

 

[rm082e]

That's not really a console anymore though is it? It's just an extra storefront pre installed on your PC

That depends on what specific feature you (each individual) see as defining a "console".

If it's just a box you plug into your TV, it comes with a controller, and has a digital storefront where you can buy games, is it a console? I think most people would say yes. I think most people wouldn't care if the install is a PC game or a bespoke version developed for that box.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

That depends on what specific feature you (each individual) see as defining a "console".

If it's just a box you plug into your TV, it comes with a controller, and has a digital storefront where you can buy games, is it a console? I think most people would say yes. I think most people wouldn't care if the install is a PC game or a bespoke version developed for that box.

Exactly. If I can buy a box, that plugs into the TV, starts up and has a screen where I choose from storefronts, e.g. Xbox, Steam, Epic, etc. and I can buy / play games without messing around, am I going to not call it a console because of technical difference from a traditional console?

 

[Ashamam]

Imagine a 4070 Super (+/-) levels of power in a small form factor Xbox that can run Steam for around $1000 and launches close to GTA6 and is clearly the best place to play it

I'm having trouble imagining it launching so soon. Hardware wise, maybe if its basically a PC, but OS/software? A lot of work to get a hybrid machine up and running I would have thought?

If it had of been planned from this gen start, no problem, but wouldn't this really only have kicked into gear 3rd or 4th quarter last year.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Just looks like a bunch of Phil Spencer quotes to me.

Spencer is the least accurate leaker of them all.

 

[solidus12]

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Playing MLB the show over the week made me realize just how complacent sony can get, and just how lazy multiplatform releases can be. MS already struggles with quality (See redfall and forza's PC release), i dont know if i want their devs going multiplatform and chasing trends.

That said, the positive side of this is that MS could potentially release a powerful $1,000 next gen console with all kinds of fancy new tech for path tracing. it will appeal to the more affluent and older millennial userbase and there is plenty of them. if the economy doesnt crash, there will be a bigger market for it than either sony or ms think.

Sony might also ease up on signing up third party exclusives and maybe invest that money back into first party games. get those games out faster. im honestly baffled that sony spent god knows how many millions on buying up godfall, deathloop, ghostwire, forspoken, stellar blade, rise of ronin, ff7 rebirth and ff16. i dont think i love any of those games. i somewhat liked ff16 but the rest, thanks but no thanks. give me first party games instead. of course, if they have a monopoly would they continue to invest in those first party games? i honestly dont know, but im trying to look at the positives here.

Sony will charge more for their consoles now that they don't need to price match Xbox like they did this gen with the disc PS5.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Sony will charge more for their consoles now that they don't need to price match Xbox like they did this gen with the disc PS5.

when everybody pays, we all win.

 

[reinking]

I am not sure why there is a debate about what makes it a console or what makes it a PC. The test is easy. Do I have to pay-to-play multiplayer online?

 

[CityHunter1981]

This is the only logical route for XBOX and I predicted that a long time ago.
Xbox has the gamepass, so they can work on having a better storefront like Steam and go mainly software developer with a small console business on the side for the hardcore fanbase.

 

[havoc00]

This is our year xbros

 

[vaibhavpisal]

How will you price the games in order to have a hope of positive returns? What developer will be able and willing to code their game to spec to take advantage of the premium hardware with a presumably much smaller audience?

-Games can be priced lower. MS will get their cut at hardware sale. For Software they can reduce it to minimum like Epic does at 12%. Its upto them and what works out.

-If its getting steam support, they will have to ensure all games work on system. Xbox likely will have a team that will set optimised settings and ensure game works flawlessly to offer a console experience. Developers won’t have to do anything.

-Its a smaller audience, but it will be entirely core xbox fanbase. They are running the company, helping it achieve same revenue figures as Nintendo on much smaller install base. Its extremely valuable to preserve them.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This is the only logical route for XBOX and I predicted that a long time ago.
Xbox has the gamepass, so they can work on having a better storefront like Steam and go mainly software developer with a small console business on the side for the hardcore fanbase.

yeah. I don't think anyone can compete against Steam. In fact, I think after steam people think on Epic (cuz the free games) and then GOG (when people complain about DRM) but clearly don't give a shit about. then maybe dev/publisher specific stores and finally the Microsoft store.

Game Pass app should've been there store front but they fucked up.

 

[Wulfer]

What game/games have Sony put out that tried to compete with or top Horizon?

Drive Club is the only thing that comes to mind but, that's a sad example.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Do you think their stubborn refusal to find quality leadership is gonna bite them in the ass even as a third-party?

I can answer this one on behalf of the totally fake, imposter HeisenbergFX4

Yes! 100%.

XGS had an open ground on Xbox console. On PlayStation and Nintendo, they would be competing with God of Wars, TLOUs, Ghost of Tsushimas, Final Fantasies, Marios, Zeldas, and more.

People have limited money. What do you think they will spend their money on? A Starfield or a God of War Ragnarok?

Xbox will have to significantly up their game if they want to compete on PS and Nintendo. They can't do that under the current leadership stock of Matt Booty, Phil Spencer, Aaron Greenberg -- the usual suspects.