Devilgunman
Member
Hopefully VR and hentai simulator could bring Japan back on gaming market.
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Media Create Sales: Week 20, 2015 (May 11 - May 17)
- Thread starter hiska-kun
- Start date
I really love this idea that absolutely nothing could possibly have stopped the mobile revolution.
Things could have been done, but admittedly those things would have been very unappealing to "core" consumers. "Hardcore" consumers have by definition been highly inflexible to change or compromise with other groups' interests or needs.
SatoAilDarko
Member
SMTxFE at least has a December date. Interesting after years of no HD games there now have two coming out so close together.
Then whether it's fundamentally transforming the traditional dedicated video game system market so that it becomes unappealing for the enthusiasts, or the seemingly current transition of the video game market as a whole for mobile platforms, what does that change?
Are we certain that's internally developed?
Comgnet preorders are already higher than 3D World 8 days before launch and the game's been advertised like crazy in Japan. 100k shouldn't be too hard to reach.
Don't see anything there indicating such a confirmation?
Isn't Shinjiro Takada saying explicitly that Atlus is developing the game, expressing the hope that it conforms to what Intelligent Systems would have wanted? Even if there's any part of it being outsourced, it would still be a collaboration with a lot of investment from Atlus, just like the Persona 4 Arena series.
Oh, didn't know that. Hmm...I'm still a bit skeptical because of the nature of the game, but at least I can be a bit more optimistic, it seems.
I mean Vita has it's own little niche going but is that really what we want? That's the questions here, the gaming market exists, it's just on phones and is not particularly diverse in the ways most NeoGaffers would like it.
What we might have gotten would have been significantly compromised, no question. A $100 console (just as a very simple example here) would have been far lower tech, just for starters.
But the alternative appears to be that consoles won't really exist at all anymore (at least in Japan).
It reminds me of the discussions when Nintendo was entering mobile; many gamers bemoaned the choice and stated that if Nintendo went all mobile, they would just stop buying Nintendo products. It suggests a disposition that is unwilling to compromise. If they don't get exactly what they want (Not just Nintendo games, and not just classic Nintendo franchises, but specifically have those classic Nintendo franchises on home consoles), then they'd rather not have anything at all.
And that may be what they end up getting.
Of course Altus is leading the project, but they also produce a number of titles which are outsourced to other developers due to resource constrains or other reasons - the earlier EO games and SMT SJ were developed by Lancarse, the P4 fighting games are Arc System Works, the P4 dancing game was Dingo until they fucked up hard, EOMD is Spike Chunsoft. For #FE they haven't actually revealed any development staff other than the producer.
Prototype Viktor
Member
That1BlackGuy
Member
The traditional gaming market will continue to exist in some capacity, but the pie will be gradually smaller. Japanese houses that can sustain themselves or operate off of a core following (ala Compile Heart) should theoretically be fine as well as companies that can take advantage of digital distribution and easily move their games on many platforms (like Tecmo-Koei).
Well at least Sony didnt made a $600 console again this time...
I think Nintendo thought they could grab the casuals with the Wii and transform them into "core" gamers, hence why they when on a more traditional console like the WiiU, which obviously failed horribly.
I remember Yoshida saying that he wants to see Nintendo successful, as its formats will usher in new waves of younger gamers, ultimately benefiting the industry as a whole...
That's another problem, with Nintendo's failure to capture the younger demographics I wonder what that will mean to the future of gaming consoles. It might be that Sony could just get rid of the middle man (Nintendo) and try to bring younger audiences into their machines by themselves, but I dont see how they could compete with Mobile.
Yoshida: “We need Nintendo to be very successful to help induct as many consumers who like to play games with controllers, right? I have two Wii Us. I play Wii U games with my daughters, because they make pretty fun family friendly games.”
That quote was from November 2013 though, I wonder what he would say now, looking at the current games market on Japan.
I think that the decline in console development in particular in Japan is something which would have happened with or without mobile. The biggest factor is that the Japanese software development environment simply failed to scale when it needed to most. They had a unique way of developing games which worked very well in the 8-bit and 16-bit era, scaled surprisingly well into larger teams when they needed to make 3D games in the 32-bit era, and somehow still managed to cling on for most of the PS2 generation.
But once gaming became super big business with the explosion of the PS2 and Xbox worldwide, western publishers expanded their production pipelines in a much more efficient way than Japanese publishers did, and the added experience of dealing with PC-based architecture coupled with the popularity of the Xbox and 360 in the US in particular, meant that Japanese developers quickly found themselves outpaced. This hurt them really badly in both output and in perception, and all the big publishers are still feeling that hurt today.
So it's not surprising that when the option of making mobile which were cheaper and easier to develop for, requiring smaller teams and offering faster development cycles, they're so eager to jump onboard. Especially if they've been burnt hard during the PS3 generation. It's not unusual to read interviews where they talk about how much better it is to work in small teams again and have regular output.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Much of the problem to me is that it cuts both way (especially reguarding pricing cutting against games-as-we-know-them). And by that, I mean much of any pricing, which is only sloooooooooooooowly softening over there.
Maneauleau
Member
Last year same week, hardware 60k
It seems last year was worse
EDIT: Nirolak and Spiegel spotted my mistake
test_account
XP-39C²
Just wondering, how much did you expect Minecraft to push Vita hardware sales?
3DS is also declining even with a brand new game (Code Name S.T.E.A.M) from Nintendo themself :/
I'm also wondering about this.
You're looking at the last week column, which was also down from last year.
NeonZ
Member
Isn't the issue with mobile games exactly the compromise though? We can still get games from various genres on mobile, they just are compromised technically or have inferior input methods due to being touch screen based.
A mobile only future isn't really different from one where videogames basically became incompatible with classic inputs and hardware development.
There's also the issue of catching lightning in a bottle. Nintendo mishandled their launches, but, even a cheap "Wii 2" with "Wii Sports 2" wouldn't explode in the same way if they didn't have a new feature that caught people's interest like the Wiimote did originally, but they can't create something like that just because they need it either.
Worst weekly hardware number since 2005 definitely:
Code:
+------------+------------+--------------+
| Year | Min | Max |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2005 | 89,853 | 954,827 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2006 | 70,469 | 1,049,703 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2007 | 150,666 | 805,676 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2008 | 99,171 | 798,555 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2009 | 101,697 | 706,749 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2010 | 87,656 | 578,545 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2011 | 80,559 | 897,089 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2012 | 83,832 | 685,277 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2013 | 72,897 | 506,608 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2014 | 58,668 | 381,347 |
+------------+------------+--------------+
| 2015 | 48,508 | 301,922 |
+------------+------------+--------------+Does the PAD number include rerolls? Most of these mobile games do -- among the mobage ones I've touched, Rage of Bahamut is "4 million users!" with active user rates that are around 50k according to user research in events. Knights of Glory reached 1 mil users! and you have a hell of a time trying to get some of the multiplayer battles to work. Granblue Fantasy which I'm actively playing is about to reach "4mil users," a friend that started was acct# 39xxxxx. Definitely includes rerolls, and judging from ranking data in the major end-of-month GvG event you got max 100K users that are playing w/ some regularity.
I didn´t care about Minecraft so I had no specific expectation for its ltd, what I said is that it seems to be what keeps PSV afloat, but PSV is heading towards sub 10k regardless. Every system declined compared to last week but I´m more concerned about hypothetical new entries into the sub 10k-club.
I also love the idea where there's some sort of future where no one universally buys or owns a smartphone because Wii Cheap n' Easy Gaming Deluxe was created in some alternate universe.
Unless that future could be changed, nothing could be done. There is no dedicated console, much less software locked to a dedicated console, that can alter that whatsoever. Consoles cannot compete with a gaming-capable device that is on a consumer at all times no matter what software they could have made.
Actually that is kinda true i guess. Reroll is going to deceive tons of the DL number.
Chain Chronicle Global had 1 million Download and during Tower Event, it is found that active member is more or less only 40k? I mean DL number is not really important if u ask me. It is the revenue it brought and how many active player it had.
Its just sad to realize that we're really a minority -- a small enthusiast group clinging to an art form that no longer makes business sense. Many of us grew up on a certain type of Japanese console game. Its like telling someone who grew up listening to Jazz that all you get is Polka music or something. I'm not quite sure the correct comparison.
In a different era, games like Street Figther 4, Bloodborne, or Bayonetta 2 wouldn't need to partner up with a console manufacturer just to get made! I'm part of a niche at this point.
Having said all that, I would have absolutely NO problem if Nintendo released a set-top box for $100. I thought they should have gone that way from the start. They can STILL innovate in other ways, such as with miiverse, control schemes, and more.
Consoles are getting attacked from all sides. Fire TV and Roku from one side. High End PC and VR from the other. And Mobile and tablets right up the gut.
DeuceGamer
Member
These threads get more depressing every time I read through them...
The answer can be both. The fact that everyone owns a smartphone does not mean everyone plays games on them, or abandons other gaming platforms for them, as has happened worldwide and particularly in Japan.
I really think it's odd to suggest that literally nothing could have stopped this transition.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I don't know about P&D, but Monster Strike notes it doesn't count redownloads to the same devices with a pretty similar number of downloads.
Edit:
http://v4.eir-parts.net/v4Contents/View.aspx?template=ir_material&sid=39265&code=2121
Here we go, about 20 million in Japan and 7 million elsewhere.
It's not impossible Gung-Ho is padding their numbers.
This argument hinges on the idea all games are equal and that people don't have preferences.
Sure, not everyone. But is what remains large enough to support the industry?
The same thing could be said for print magazines and buggy whip makers.
I think print magazines are an excellent analog, because some of them are not only surviving, but thriving in the current landscape (if you need examples, a large scale one is VICE; it is also true that indie newspapers are thriving in a variety of niches).
Of course, most magazines and newspapers are dead or dying, no question. But what we're asking is whether it's possible to thrive in that industry, if you position yourself intelligently and plan for the future. As print clearly shows, it very much is -- but you better have a good plan. I don't feel that any of the three console manufacturers currently have a good plan for the future right now, and they've certainly failed so far in aggregate.
The argument hinges on the proven idea that the mass majority of consumers don't care about where their games come from as long as they are accessible and convenient to play.
That's why I'm laughing at the idea of compelling casual software stopping the trend.
No matter how open or casual or easy or accessible you make your console game it will never be as open or casual or easy or accessible as a phone game by virtue of the phone being on the person at all times, being used by that person at all times.
I'm not sure what you're arguing but what I'm saying in response to the first opinion is that the transition from consoles to smartphones had nothing to do with what casual console software didn't offer, but everything to do with the fact that from a casual standpoint smartphones will always be the superior option because you always have your phone and you already owned your phone because you need a phone.
There is no stopping this whatsoever unless you can outline an idea where a console can imitate a phone's convenience right down to the last feature, and at that point it's no longer a console.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
With the slide of portable consoles and the acceleration of growth in Mobile, it doesn't shock me what is going on.
Though I do find they denial funny, since the western market will head this direction too. We are already seeing a huge contraction in the console market, and the influence of mobile will be more apparent as it gobbles up more and more of North America and Europe.
So we are seeing our future, though it will take 1 or 2 more generations of home consoles until we see the same devastation of Japan.
With Chain Chronicle, the Selene event had very few active players because it was impossible to find, and Gumi did a horrible job marketing it to the Global user base. It isn't so much a function of a lack of user base, as it was for poor marketing and it was hard to find.
I know many many of my friends who play Chain Chronicle, and of my hundred friends who play the game, about 2 or 3 played it.
Though I do find they denial funny, since the western market will head this direction too. We are already seeing a huge contraction in the console market, and the influence of mobile will be more apparent as it gobbles up more and more of North America and Europe.
So we are seeing our future, though it will take 1 or 2 more generations of home consoles until we see the same devastation of Japan.
With Chain Chronicle, the Selene event had very few active players because it was impossible to find, and Gumi did a horrible job marketing it to the Global user base. It isn't so much a function of a lack of user base, as it was for poor marketing and it was hard to find.
I know many many of my friends who play Chain Chronicle, and of my hundred friends who play the game, about 2 or 3 played it.
Okay, I'll boil my argument down to a simple question: let's say you were the head of a major console manufacturer in, oh, 2008. How would you have approached hardware design and software acquisition such that you could compete with smart phones for casual consumers going forward? What changes would you have made in your approach to facilitate that?
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I think there's two interrelated concepts going on here.
Could anything have stopped the rise of mobile gaming? Probably not, it's a natural consequence of people buying high powered smart devices.
Could anything have stopped the fall of dedicated game machines? Yes, many mistakes by Japanese publishers and developers last gen and this gen could have been prevented.
Dedicated game consoles are still doing alright in the states, even as the mobile market grows. Common in both markets is the near complete bottoming out of the dedicated casual gaming market, though.
Could anything have stopped the rise of mobile gaming? Probably not, it's a natural consequence of people buying high powered smart devices.
Could anything have stopped the fall of dedicated game machines? Yes, many mistakes by Japanese publishers and developers last gen and this gen could have been prevented.
Dedicated game consoles are still doing alright in the states, even as the mobile market grows. Common in both markets is the near complete bottoming out of the dedicated casual gaming market, though.