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[Jon Carter]

Is there any game on Amazon with a good review?

Puzzle & Dragons Z and the Youkai Watch games have better reviews (especially Youkai) and I think the game was trying to be a bit of both.

I expressed my concerns about the quality of the game and how that would impact any potential sequels before though so I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the game did end up underperforming. I did see the first game at least reach the million.

 

[Pennywise83]

It's funny to see how such a low-effort game reaching 750-800k can be considered as underperforming... Expectations through the roof?

 

[Vena]

What were the latest numbers for Xenoblade? Under 150k still? I really wouldn't call those sales ''fine'' for title like Xenoblade that by all means looks like rather high budget Nintendo game. Not FE# like bomb but not really that good either.

<150k, yes. But the budget is a bit of a toss up depending on how you read what Takahashi said on the subject. Either its a small budget game in general, or a small budget game for the type of game that it is (open world). But the game did roughly in-line with its predecessor in Japan, on a dead-end console, and is seemingly doing considerably better than its predecessor worldwide (which wasn't very hard to do, all things considered).

Its not like we're talking about an established, high profile brand on a healthy console (its performance on the original Wii should be evidence enough of that). Xenoblade is nothing of the sort, and as such its performance was "fine". Its not a tire fire bad, its not breaking records like Splatoon, its just "fine". But as I said, the statement was nonsensical for a variety of reasons, Xenoblade wasn't the center-point of that. It was just a bullet point.

"Nintendo audience" is vacuous.

 

[Oregano]

It's funny to see how such a low-effort game reaching 750-800k can be considered as underperforming... Expectations through the roof?

It's an underperformance because it looked like it had the potential to do more and it seems they definitely hoped it would. It doesn't mean it's a financial failure though.

 

[Jon Carter]

It's funny to see how such a low-effort game reaching 750-800k can be considered as underperforming... Expectations through the roof?

If retailers order 950k copies and can't sell them all or at least not without slashing the price then it is the definition of underperforming.

Still high numbers but Monster Strike is a hugely popular game and P&D Z was more successful. We should expect more from an IP like this on a system like this, but yes, it is low-effort and that was a big mistake in my opinion. It could have been something bigger.

 

[ZoddGutts]

SMTxFE died on April 1 when Nintendo released that colorful trailer. No amount of advertisement could save it.

It's just the way it is.

Yeah, the trailer was going to turn off fans of those ip's when you combine those two franchises and get that. I remember the trailer having a high dislike rate as well on Youtube.

 

[NeonZ]

What were the latest numbers for Xenoblade? Under 150k still? I really wouldn't call those sales ''fine'' for title like Xenoblade that by all means looks like rather high budget Nintendo game. Not FE# like bomb but not really that good either.

I really don't think Xenoblade is really that high budget. Now, I agree that it wasn't a big success, but the game's lack of budget clearly shows once you begin playing. The environments look amazing... sometimes- but that's pretty much the only part of the game that is really high budget looking. Monster models are often recycled, without even texture variations (most monsters seem to have one or two texture variations but 6-8 actual stat variations with different names).

There's no VA at all for sidequests outside of the main story and Affinity Quests. Even in the main story and Affinity Quests many "cutscenes" are just the characters talking with preset animations while the player moves the camera around.

In fact, the director has mentioned that budget was one of the reasons the game doesn't focus as much on a cinematic story, since that's usually the most expensive part of development for jrpgs.

 

[ivysaur12]

I really don't think Xenoblade is really that high budget. Now, I agree that it wasn't a big success, but the game's lack of budget clearly shows once you begin playing. The environments look amazing... sometimes- but that's pretty much the only part of the game that is really high budget looking. Monster models are often recycled, without even texture variations.

There's no VA at all for sidequests outside of the main story and Affinity Quests. Even in the main story and Affinity Quests many "cutscenes" are just the characters talking with preset animations while the player moves the camera around.

In fact, the director has mentioned that budget was one of the reasons the game doesn't focus as much on a cinematic story, since that's usually the most expensive part of development for jrpgs.

Also, Japan was never going to be Xenoblade's strongest region, while it probably will be for #FE.

 

[Vena]

I really don't think Xenoblade is really that high budget. Now, I agree that it wasn't a big success, but the game's lack of budget clearly shows once you begin playing. The environments look amazing... sometimes- but that's pretty much the only part of the game that is really high budget looking. Monster models are often recycled, without even texture variations (most monsters seem to have one or two texture variations but 6-8 actual stat variations with different names). There's no VA at all for sidequests outside of the main story and Affinity Quests.

Even in the main story and Affinity Quests, many "cutscenes" are just the characters talking with preset animations while the player moves the camera around. In fact, the director has mentioned that budget was one of the reasons the game doesn't focus as much on a cinematic story, since that's usually the most expensive part of development for jrpgs.

Right.

And I never said it was a "big success" to begin with. I said it did "fine".

 

[madstarr12]

1. [3DS] Monster Hunter X - 372pts
2. [3DS] Monster Strike - 206pts
3. [PSV] Kidou Senshi Gundam: Extreme VS Force - 185pts
4. [WIU] Splatoon - 138pts
5. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition - 104pts
6. [WIU] Super Mario Maker - 99pts
7. [3DS] Rhythm Heaven: The Best + - 91pts
8. [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam MIX - 89pts
9. [3DS] Yokai Watch Busters: Red Cat Team - 81pts
10. [3DS] Disney Magical World 2 - 80pts
11. [PS4] Fallout 4 - 78pts
12. [3DS] Yokai Watch Busters: White Dog Squad - 75pts
13. [3DS] Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer - 74pts
14. [3DS] Sumikko Gurashi: Omise Hajimerundesu - 58pts
15. [3DS] Dragon Ball Z: Extreme Butouden - 33pts
16. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Triforce Heroes - 24pts
17. [3DS] Famista Returns - 23pts
18. [PS4] Minecraft: PlayStation 4 Edition - 22pts
19. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 22pts
20. [PS4] Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 - 21pts

Japan failed U Atlus.

Flat FE confirmed....

 

[Scum]

Should have had Fire Emblem Musou instead.

 

[SuperLeviathan]

I don't think SMTxFE is going to be retail in the West. It'll probably be digital-only.

If its not selling well in Japan, then it almost certainly isn't going to in the States or Europe.

 

[Kid Ying]

No one can say xeno x was a success, but selling on par with what the first game did on the same timeframe in a much more successful console (with RPGs with higher sales to boot) is okay. No one should expect more, but expecting less was reasonable.

With #fe, selling even the xenox first week in its Ltd would be amazing by the looks of things.

Anyway, people should be happy with the game and play for what it is and dont expect for a sequel or a port to happen.

 

[KillerMan91]

<150k, yes. But the budget is a bit of a toss up depending on how you read what Takahashi said on the subject. Either its a small budget game in general, or a small budget game for the type of game that it is (open world). But the game did roughly in-line with its predecessor in Japan, on a dead-end console, and is seemingly doing considerably better than its predecessor worldwide (which wasn't very hard to do, all things considered).

Its not like we're talking about an established, high profile brand on a healthy console (its performance on the original Wii should be evidence enough of that). Xenoblade is nothing of the sort, and as such its performance was "fine". Its not a tire fire bad, its not breaking records like Splatoon, its just "fine". But as I said, the statement was nonsensical for a variety of reasons, Xenoblade wasn't the center-point of that. It was just a bullet point.

"Nintendo audience" is vacuous.

I just have very hard time to believe that it was low budget game no matter what Takahashi has said ( if he meant open world games in general then it's probably true). Objectively when you look at the game it has all qualities of rather high budget last gen PS3 game. Presentation from all angles looks like there has been some money spent and it was in development for years. It's not like the game was made in eastern europe either where wages are much lower than in Japan or in west. I guess Nintendo knows some secret stuff if they manage to develop HD era open world games in Japan that are successful with under 150k sales in Japan and under 1 million WW. I guess in vacuum you could say it sold fine for WiiU game but my definition of fine is that the game is actually going to make some money. I also realize that it was only bullet point in your post but it caught my eye so I replied. =P

 

[sörine]

I don't think FE is going to be retail in the West. At the very, it'll be digital-only.

If its not selling well in Japan, then it almost certainly isn't going to in the States or Europe.

That didn't stop Bayo 2 or Devil's Third. Meanwhile Fatal Frame did relatively okay in Japan by franchise standards but was digital only in America.

 

[Vena]

I just have very hard time to believe that it was low budget game no matter what Takahashi has said ( if he meant open world games in general then it's probably true). Objectively when you look at the game it has all qualities of rather high budget last gen PS3 game. Presentation from all angles looks like there has been some money spent and it was in development for years. It's not like the game was made in eastern europe either where wages are much lower than in Japan or in west. I guess Nintendo knows some secret stuff if they manage to develop HD era open world games in Japan that are successful with under 150k sales in Japan and under 1 million WW. I guess in vacuum you could say it sold fine for WiiU game but my definition of fine is that the game is actually going to make some money. I also realize that it was only bullet point in your post but it caught my eye so I replied. =P

It has none of the qualities of a high quality PS3 release. At all.

Every cutscene is "cutting corners 101" (the majority of them are talking heads with minimal animations), the majority of dialogue in the game is unspoken text, and there are... zero?... CGI cutscenes.

I also don't know why Takahashi would be lying about his budget (and I suspect much of their time was spent building the engine and tools, which data miners have discovered to be rather robust, rather than the game).

I honestly think people are greatly overestimating their budget with the game. I don't think a modern game needs to sell over a million to be considered successful, though, especially not for a hardware manufacturer.

But, again, all I said was "fine".

 

[SuperLeviathan]

That didn't stop Bayo 2 or Devil's Third. Meanwhile Fatal Frame did relatively okay in Japan by franchise standards but was digital only in America.

Bayo 2 and Fatal Frame did well for what they were. And the bath Nintendo almost certainly took on Devil's Third will probably make them gunshy on the matter.

If the #FE isn't doing all that well in the biggest market of both of its originating franchises, the costs of manufacturing discs for America will probably be hard to justify.

 

[Sterok]

Why is #FE like... that anyway? Atlus did most of the work right? It feels like a pet project of someone over there that was made without regard to how it would actually sell. If so, I know Nintendo likes to not interfere with other developers more than necessary, but maybe if they're going to keep funding these things they should do more than throw them some money and say have a nice day.

 

[Mory Dunz]

I really don't think Xenoblade is really that high budget. Now, I agree that it wasn't a big success, but the game's lack of budget clearly shows once you begin playing. The environments look amazing... sometimes- but that's pretty much the only part of the game that is really high budget looking. Monster models are often recycled, without even texture variations (most monsters seem to have one or two texture variations but 6-8 actual stat variations with different names). There's no VA at all for sidequests outside of the main story and Affinity Quests.

Even in the main story and Affinity Quests, many "cutscenes" are just the characters talking with preset animations while the player moves the camera around. In fact, the director has mentioned that budget was one of the reasons the game doesn't focus as much on a cinematic story, since that's usually the most expensive part of development for jrpgs.

The stuff listed seems to apply to most JRPGs imo. Even the higher budget ones. Pallete swaps for monsters, different tiers of cutscenes, etc.

Personally, there's a lot of VA to me. I guess it depends on what we're comparing it to. Compared to other JRPGs, I'd say there's a lot. Maybe not compared to some WRPGs though. Like most jrpgs imo, VA is used for certain NPCs and cutscenes. Also, I'd say Xeno has a ton more battle lines than other jrpgs. Due to the # of characters, and actions you're able to do in a battle. The cutscenes are definitely pretty static outside of some certain ones, but that seems pretty in line for jrpgs.

And the world is huge as you mentioned. I'm not a "dev" (just done rpg maker), but I assume that wouldn't be cheap. I always felt there was a difference in dev costs between a large detailed world.....say in a Mario Kart 8 track, versus in a game where you interact with every inch of that world....like in Xeno X. I mean, just doing collision detection for every piece of land in the game (so you don't fall through the ground or have things bug out) seems like an endeavor. Whereas in a game like Mario Kart again, you wouldn't need to worry about stuff like that. And being able to jump at any time in Xeno, which not every jrpg does obviously, would just add to that dev time and testing. So you don't get a glitchy mess. I could go on, but I don't to type too much
'

tl dr
I'm kind of delving a bit, but the point is that I don't fully agree with your reasoning behind Xeno being cheaper than originally thought. Playing it has made me actaully increase my initial "estimation" in my head. I'm not putting it near AAA tier of course though. And the dev did say it wasn't a super high budget, so who knows what that means exactly. And if the budget is decent, I don't think doing 100k in japan is acceptable. I wonder what NPD will bring.

 

[ivysaur12]

It has none of the qualities of a high quality PS3 release. At all.

Every cutscene is "cutting corners 101" (the majority of them are talking heads with minimal animations), the majority of dialogue in the game is unspoken text, and there are... zero?... CGI cutscenes.

I also don't know why Takahashi would be lying about his budget (and I suspect much of their time was spent building the engine and tools, which data miners have discovered to be rather robust, rather than the game).

I honestly think people are greatly overestimating their budget with the game. I don't think a modern game needs to sell over a million to be considered successful, though, especially not for a hardware manufacturer.

We'll have a better idea of how XCX is doing next month, anyway.

And if the budget is decent, I don't think doing 100k in japan is acceptable. I wonder what NPD will bring.

It's probably closer to 200k than 100k now in Japan anyway, and it'll do considerably better in America and probably Europe than Japan.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Why is #FE like... that anyway? Atlus did most of the work right? It feels like a pet project of someone over there that was made without regard to how it would actually sell. If so, I know Nintendo likes to not interfere with other developers more than necessary, but maybe if they're going to keep funding these things they should do more than throw them some money and say have a nice day.

I believe the story goes; the idea arrived during the development of Sparkle Snapshots 3D. Kaori Ando, the Nintendo development director on the project, presented the idea to collaborate with Atlus again on this type of project. Soo yeah.

 

[Oregano]

Takahashi never said it was low budget. He just said it wasn't AAA, the game still has the most text/spoken dialogue of any Nintendo game ever.

It is however important to note that it was in development when they hoped Wii U would be bigger AND first party releases don't have to pay license fees so you can sell less and still make the same amount compared to third party releases.

 

[Nibel]

Man, Nintendo just sold 2013 numbers of Wii U systems and the next system is right around the corner; I wonder how those people who bought all these bundles will react. I wonder how much this means for Wii U support in 2016/17

 

[Vena]

The stuff listed seems to apply to most JRPGs imo. Even the higher budget ones. Pallete swaps for monsters, different tiers of cutscenes, etc.

Personally, there's a lot of VA to me. I guess it depends on what we're comparing it to. Compared to other JRPGs, I'd say there's a lot. Maybe not compared to some WRPGs though. Like most jrpgs imo, VA is used for certain NPCs and cutscenes. Also, I'd say Xeno has a ton more battle lines than other jrpgs. Due to the # of characters, and actions you're able to do in a battle. The cutscenes are definitely pretty static outside of some certain ones, but that seems pretty in line for jrpgs.

Most of the jRPGs your relating to (ie. most jRPGs) are not high budget endevours.

And the world is huge as you mentioned. I'm not a "dev" (just done rpg maker), but I assume that wouldn't be cheap. I always felt there was a difference in dev costs between a large detailed world.....say in a Mario Kart 8 track, versus in a game where you interact with every inch of that world....like in Xeno X. I mean, just doing collision detection for every piece of land in the game (so you don't fall through the ground or have things bug out) seems like an endeavor. Whereas in a game like Mario Kart again, you wouldn't need to worry about stuff like that. And being able to jump at any time in Xeno, which not every jrpg does obviously, would just add to that dev time and testing. So you don't get a glitchy mess. I could go on, but I don't to type too much.

The game has barely any collision detection outside of terrain models. Its actually another examples of extreme corner cutting.

 

[sörine]

Bayo 2 and Fatal Frame did well for what they were. And the bath Nintendo almost certainly took on Devil's Third will probably make them gunshy on the matter.

If the #FE isn't doing all that well in the biggest market of both of its originating franchises, the costs of manufacturing discs for America will probably be hard to justify.

Bayo 2 did pretty bad in Japan, but surprisingly okay in America. If anything it's sales sort of imply the opposite of what you're suggesting, that Nintendo should probably consider more than just home region results when looking at western localization. And I'm sure they do.

I think your prediction is offbase anyway though since SMTXFE's been earmarked for western release for years now and (Splatoon surge aside) America has been Wii U's stringest region by far all along. Like XBX, Bayo 2 and most other core games, it's undoubtedly going to sell more overseas than at home.

 

[KillerMan91]

It has none of the qualities of a high quality PS3 release. At all.

Every cutscene is "cutting corners 101" (the majority of them are talking heads with minimal animations), the majority of dialogue in the game is unspoken text, and there are... zero?... CGI cutscenes.

I also don't know why Takahashi would be lying about his budget (and I suspect much of their time was spent building the engine and tools, which data miners have discovered to be rather robust, rather than the game).

I honestly think people are greatly overestimating their budget with the game. I don't think a modern game needs to sell over a million to be considered successful, though, especially not for a hardware manufacturer.

Bayonetta that was hack'n'slash game (so not even open world game) made by sweat workshop we call Platinium (regarded as making games with tight budget) with zero CGI shipped over 1.1 million and Sega deemed it such a failure that they never funded sequel. Also isn't creating engines pretty expensive and that is why you see most developers using licensed engines like UE nowadays? Maybe Monolith are the new cost cutting kings and Xenoblade will be successfull enough. I guess we will never know.

 

[Vena]

Bayonetta that was hack'n'slash game (so not even open world game) made by sweat workshop we call Platinium (regarded as making games with tight budget) with zero CGI shipped over 1.1 million and Sega deemed it such a failure that they never funded sequel. Also isn't creating engines pretty expensive and that is why you see most developers using licensed engines like UE nowadays? Maybe Monolith are the new cost cutting kings and Xenoblade will be successfull enough. I guess we will never know.

There's a variety of reasons why Bayonetta and its shipment (largely sold in the bins) are bad comparisons to Xenoblade.

I also doubt they created their engine from scratch, and its not like its not going to get used elsewhere. Nintendo doesn't make engines like SE to use them once then throw them out.

 

[sörine]

Bayonetta that was hack'n'slash game (so not even open world game) made by sweat workshop we call Platinium (regarded as making games with tight budget) with zero CGI shipped over 1.1 million and Sega deemed it such a failure that they never funded sequel. Also isn't creating engines pretty expensive and that is why you see most developers using licensed engines like UE nowadays? Maybe Monolith are the new cost cutting kings and Xenoblade will be successfull enough. I guess we will never know.

Uh, Bayo 1 had CGI and the big issue with it's "sales" is that it shipped those 1.1m retail upfront and then spent years trying to sell through those copies at deep discount.

 

[Mory Dunz]

It has none of the qualities of a high quality PS3 release. At all.

Every cutscene is "cutting corners 101" (the majority of them are talking heads with minimal animations), the majority of dialogue in the game is unspoken text, and there are... zero?... CGI cutscenes.

I also don't know why Takahashi would be lying about his budget (and I suspect much of their time was spent building the engine and tools, which data miners have discovered to be rather robust, rather than the game).

I honestly think people are greatly overestimating their budget with the game. I don't think a modern game needs to sell over a million to be considered successful, though, especially not for a hardware manufacturer.

But, again, all I said was "fine".

Cutscenes aren't everthing. I see it as a give and take.
Since we're talking PS3 high budger releases, what counts as one besides Final Fantasy?

And even with FF13, it had great cutscene quality and mouthing (from what I played for some hours before I got bored of walking forward lol), but couldn't one say it cut corners with its tiny playable world?

I'm not comparing FF13's budget to Xeno X, I'm saying games tend to focus on different areas. People aren't saying Takahashi is lying, but "not big budget" in this current world has a huge range. You mentioned overestimating, but I honestly think people are underestimating how expensive creating Xenoblade X's world would be.

I don't think it's a coincidence that in the HD era, a lot of JRPGs got "smaller" in my opinion. At least of the ones I played.

It's probably closer to 200k than 100k now in Japan anyway, and it'll do considerably better in America and probably Europe than Japan.

Oh yeah, Was it around ~110 retail when it disappeared? Maybe it's around 150k combined now. I'm not sure how close it can be to 200k though.

 

[ivysaur12]

Oh yeah, Was it around ~110 retail when it disappeared? Maybe it's around 150k combined now. I'm not sure how close it can be to 200k though.

It was only 110,000 physical when it disappeared. It's probably above 150k, but we won't know until Famitsu's top 100 next month. It was also never really destined to perform great in Japan.

 

[Sterok]

#FE isn't the only game Nintendo should've done a bit more guidance for. Off the top of my head W101 and Code Name Steam should've had Nintendo mandating that the games have a bit more mainstream, or at least focused, appeal. Bayonetta and Fatal Frame would also kind of have this issue I guess, though those two I guess already had established (if small) audiences, so it wasn't as necessary.

Nintendo themselves seems pretty good at attempting to make a game appealing. The Splatoon Iwata Asks noted that part of the early struggle was making an aesthetic that would actually sell (since obviously tofu wouldn't).

 

[ivysaur12]

#FE isn't the only game Nintendo should've done a bit more guidance for. Off the top of my head W101 and Code Name Steam should've had Nintendo mandating that the games have a bit more mainstream, or at least focused, appeal. Bayonetta and Fatal Frame would also kind of have this issue I guess, though those two I guess already had established (if small) audiences, so it wasn't as necessary.

Nintendo themselves seems pretty good at attempting to make a game appealing. The Splatoon Iwata Asks noted that part of the early struggle was making an aesthetic that would actually sell (since obviously tofu wouldn't).

says you

 

[KillerMan91]

Uh, Bayo 1 had CGI and the big issue with it's "sales" is that it shipped those 1.1m retail upfront and then spent years trying to sell through those copies at deep discount.

Actually looking at wiki they still shipped extra 250k copies (1.35 million shipped as of april 2010) even after that 1.1 million launch shipment. Don''t know how that is possible if they were trying to sell trough that early shipment for ''years''. Not to mention if Xenoblade X is success with something like 1 million sold Bayonetta should have been success even with less than a million sold as I don't know how anyone could conclude it cost more to make (cheaper genre, by cheap studio, developed in less amount of time). Yet it was deemed as a failure

 

[horuhe]

Rakuten Books Weekly is up, and won't post it because is incomplete, it needs the other stores sales data, and that takes two more days. However it shows really high bumps for Splatoon and Rhythm Heaven. These two games really had the biggest increases during this week. Gundam sold well but, of course, thanks to the pricecut in-extremis, and Wii U especially the Shiro Premium Set was very demanded.

http://books.rakuten.co.jp/ranking/weekly/006/#!/

The saddest part is #FE. Rakuten Books was the only store in the Shopping Mall that sold it, and it appears somewhere between #186 and #252, depending on the SKU.

 

[Ōkami]

Comeback inminent!?

Spoiler

Hourly chart, ke ke ke ke ke

 

[horuhe]

Comeback inminent!?

Saw it in the Rakuten Hourly also, haha. It was quite funny.

 

[Oregano]

Comeback inminent!?

Spoiler

Hourly chart, ke ke ke ke ke

Well if sales increase 115% every hour it won't be long until it dominates.

 

[L95]

I guess my question regarding SMT(Atlus)xFE/#FE was, "Is there an idol loving demographic in FE? Or SMT, for that matter?" That's what's always confused me. And, hey, if there is one, then, alright. (I really have no clue, but I didn't associate idols with either franchise...)

 

[Vena]

Cutscenes aren't everthing. I see it as a give and take.
Since we're talking PS3 high budger releases, what counts as one besides Final Fantasy?

And even with FF13, it had great cutscene quality and mouthing (from what I played for some hours before I got bored of walking forward lol), but couldn't one say it cut corners with its tiny playable world?

Crafting the world is demanding indeed, but they took a lot of shortcuts in said world building and populating. Nothing has collision detection except for the world itself (with most buildings and such, being just parts of the world and solid). My point was, largely, that the game is entirely stitched together with tape and corners were cut everywhere. Choreographing in-engine cutscenes is hard, CGI is expensive, extensive spoken dialogue is expensive, building a world is expensive, but Xenoblade only has one of those (as I said, the VO is actually largely small compared to the volume of straight up WoW-text presentation). Most assets and textures are largely low quality. About the only "big" thing they did was the open world.

I don't think the game was made on some 2$ budget, mind. I think it was made on a budget of realistic expectations, even back when the WiiU was still "alive". The original Xenoblade didn't light the world on fire, and I can't see a reality in which Nintendo greenlit its sequel with tens of millions in budget (and certainly not in marketing).

I may well be underestimating it, though.

 

[Jon Carter]

Comeback inminent!?

Spoiler

Hourly chart, ke ke ke ke ke

15 reviews for the Xbox One, 812 for the New 3DS AC adapter.

 

[NeonZ]

#FE isn't the only game Nintendo should've done a bit more guidance for. Off the top of my head W101 and Code Name Steam should've had Nintendo mandating that the games have a bit more mainstream, or at least focused, appeal. Bayonetta and Fatal Frame would also kind of have this issue I guess, though those two I guess already had established (if small) audiences, so it wasn't as necessary.

Codename STEAM was attempting to go for an arty style that they thought would be appealing for the west. Although, yes, it obviously wasn't.

The stuff listed seems to apply to most JRPGs imo. Even the higher budget ones. Pallete swaps for monsters, different tiers of cutscenes, etc.

Just to clarify... I mentioned palette swaps in the context that many monster variations aren't even pallet swaps. They just have different names and stats, but use the same model. Yes, that happens in other JRPGs, like Neptunia or something, but those games are clearly low budget.

 

[Nirolak]

I guess my question regarding SMT(Atlus)xFE/#FE was, "Is there an idol loving demographic in FE? Or SMT, for that matter?" That's what's always confused me. And, hey, if there is one, then, alright. (I really have no clue, but I didn't associate idols with either franchise...)

It's meant to appeal to people who like games like Persona. Take Rise, for example.

 

[L95]

It's meant to appeal to people who like games like Persona. Take Rise, for example.

Yeah, I got the persona connection now. I was just asking that question when they were still calling it smtxFE, it makes more sense since they've started calling it AtlusxFE

 

[jj984jj]

As was already said in this thread, the product was marketed. It just doesn't matter when no one seemingly wants the product.

I didn't say they didn't market the game. I said they did not have any real strategy behind it. There were plenty of ways Nintendo could've gone from the initial announcement of SMT x FE to the reveal of the actual game, but instead they revealed it in the worst way possible and left a bad impression even on people who might've still been interested in this type of game.

 

[randomkid]

It's meant to appeal to people who like games like Persona. Take Rise, for example.

What's the LTD on Persona 4 Dancing anyways? Or Omega Quintet? Is there even an audience for idol-focused RPGs (as opposed to the more natural genre fit of idol-focused rhythm games) on non-Wii U systems?

 

[Nirolak]

Yeah, I got the persona connection now. I was just asking that question when they were still calling it smtxFE, it makes more sense since they've started calling it AtlusxFE

I suspect they announced the partnership before they had a clear concept of what the game would be, but wanted to broadly indicate it would have something to do with the family of titles related to SMT.

I don't think they handled that part very well.

What's the LTD on Persona 4 Dancing anyways? Or Omega Quintet? Is there even an audience for idol-focused RPGs (as opposed to the more natural genre fit of idol-focused rhythm games) on non-Wii U systems?

I don't think they view this as an idol game so much as a game with idols. It's not a rhythm title or an idol simulator.

Similarly I doubt they were looking at Sengoku Basara and Samurai Warriors when making Shin Megami Tensei 4 because they're all "samurai games".

The idea of the project was to make a Fire Emblem game immersed in modern Japanese youth culture. They decided to go with modern day teens in Tokyo who have a connection to Fire Emblem characters (a la Personas in Persona) instead of sending Lucina and Chrom through a time machine to 2015. Atlus is a pretty obvious partner for that kind of thing since they're one of the few studios that really excel at this. The other option would have been signing a Nomura group at Square Enix or something, but that would probably be way harder than an independent studio whose parent company was going bankrupt.

 

[L95]

I suspect they announced the partnership before they had a clear concept of what the game would be, but wanted to broadly indicate it would have something to do with the family of titles related to SMT.

I don't think they handled that part very well.

Oh... I thought they actually said that (they didn't have a concept at announcement), though I may have assumed too hard lol

 

[randomkid]

I don't think they view this as an idol game so much as a game with idols. It's not a rhythm title or an idol simulator.

Similarly I doubt they were looking at Sengoku Basara and Samurai Warriors when making Shin Megami Tensei 4 because they're all "samurai games".

Haha, I mean, have you seen the game though? The focus on idols in all their forms is leagues beyond any samurai references in SMT4. They went IN and that's why you see so many who were turned off.

 

[Exterminieren]

Publishers need to stop revealing games so early in development.

The January Direct was a move borne of total desperation, and Nintendo have never tried anything else like it before or since.

 

[sörine]

Actually looking at wiki they still shipped extra 250k copies (1.35 million shipped as of april 2010) even after that 1.1 million launch shipment. Don''t know how that is possible if they were trying to sell trough that early shipment for ''years''. Not to mention if Xenoblade X is success with something like 1 million sold Bayonetta should have been success even with less than a million sold as I don't know how anyone could conclude it cost more to make (cheaper genre, by cheap studio, developed in less amount of time). Yet it was deemed as a failure

1.1m wasn't launch for the west, it was pre-launch. Sega booked that sell-in about a week before NA/EU street date in their IR reports. That extra 250k could've shipped before launch too, although it's not that much of a surprise some additional copies would be moved in the early window depending on regional distribution. And the fast and steep price drops (along with the NPD sellthrough figures we got) don't really paint the picture of a game that wasn't insanely overshipped. It's not like channel stuffed efforts never ship anything else either, Lost Planet 2 being another good example with even worse sellthrough/price slashing yet somehow higher shipments. Capcom used to really be the king of channel stuffing though.

You also have to consider more than development budget if you want to make a direct XCX comparison. Bayonetta was being heralded as the spiritual successor to DMC, it had a gigantic push in the enthusiast press, it was developed basically as a 360 exclusive and had to have a contracted PS3 port added to the budget... I don't think it's difficult to see how Sega might've had bigger expectations versus the results they saw with it. Meanwhile Takahashi's interview sort of implies and Nintendo probably had more managed expectations for his game and he was probably budgeted accordingly.