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[STARSBarry]

But within a few hours of an MSRP announcement nvidia can change price?

It’s just a price war. They don’t have the war chest to do that with nvidia.

Yes everyone wants it except for AMD who really must be enjoying high margins too.

Nvidia don't have the stock, that's the issue, you can really capitalise on that. They are purposefully creating manufactured demand which can be abused, and then also have to try and argue with their share holders who have just taken a huge blow from the AI push backfiring with the new models why their profit margins are going to lower again.

There's not been a better time to make this move, high margins are better in 5 years time when you trippled your market share vs now when their 10%

 

[moogman]

Even at their most successful, like every stock flying off the shelves during COVID with RDNA 2, they didn’t make a dent in market share.

I don’t think peoples realize how much bigger the mindshare for nvidia is.

AMD would have to basically have truckloads of GPUs ready for any demand at any store for anyone to walk in and grab one at near MSRP and to make scalpers irrelevant and be very cheap for any of this to make a dent. They would take a huge risk of having overmanufactured and nvidia could just get whiff of this kind of production scale and prepare itself (no secrets of such remains a secret for long in this industry)

With how AIB MSRP leaks are looking I don’t think the plan is aggressive pricing. I think we can forgot those expectations

Yeah, I agree that AMD aren't in a position to price it too aggressively yet. but even if they did I'm not sure Nvidia would respond immediately as it would damage their brand. They'd probably get a Super on the market a bit quicker than planned in a few months rather than change MSRP of the current cards.

I do agree though, and when AMD took on Intel aggressively it was when their product was a tech that could really take it to the competitor for generations. The graphics side isn't there yet, and this opportunity is more Nvidia relaxing rather than gains by AMD (the 60 series is going to be impressive is my guess). I'm pretty sure they'll only go into full-on attack mode when / if they can get into a position like that against Nvidia.

 

[RCX]

Don't worry, if they launch at this price it'll be 250-300 off inside of 6 months. Nvidia owns mindshare. If AMD decides they want to be in this category at all they have to go for marketshare at the cost of profit. Once they have that customer loyalty they can work on their margins. But if they go with this possible pricing strategy its never even getting started.

Crazy how they can get the CPU side so right and proceed to constantly shit all over themselves in the GPU sector.

 

[Bojji]

Plenty of people hate him here of GAF, but he has a point. If you can lower the price and still turn a profit do it, it will create a huge wave of positive support and more importantly adopters who will have bought AMD for maybe the first time in decades. Like how much do these cards cost to make? Can you sell a 9070 XT for 550 and still turn a profit on it? Probably

So do it, get your foot in the door and people into your ecosystem. If I can pay slightly more for an Nividia cars that gives me superior performance in ray tracing and DLSS over FSR, most people are going to take it, you need to massively lower your price to combat this + brand loyalty.

And this is coming from someone who got a launch 5080, so I don't have a hat in this race I already picked a side. But your not going to sell more cards than Nvidia than announcing Nvidia -50$ whej the features between the two cards are not within striking range, and people are starting to care about ray tracing now.

The only way AMD is going to slow Nvidia and put themselves back in the market is by crashing it for Nvidia, not my tailing them.

Like I said in my previous post, it's great for consumer but for AMD? Not really.

They only get money once and if they lower their margins too much they will get marketshare, yes but at the same time they won't make much money. And unlike consoles marketshare means shit, AMD GPU users don't generate AMD any money after getting GPU. MAYBE they will buy another AMD GPU in the future but there is no ecosystem or anything (like PSN) that would guarantee it.

 

[Wolzard]

This. AMD says they want more dedicated GPU market share but are we REALLY sure they actually care that much?
They may just be content to hang around and (slowly) copy Nvidia’s innovations for use in their much more profitable custom SOC business.

Speaking with Paul Alcorn, AMD's Computing and Graphics Business Group head Jack Huynh, said that with its next generation, AMD will focus on gaining market share in the PC gaming graphics market, which means winning price-performance battles against NVIDIA in key mainstream- and performance segments, similar to what it did with the Radeon RX 5000 series based on the original RDNA graphics architecture, and not get into the enthusiast segment that's low-margin with the kind of die-sizes at play, and move low volumes.

AMD Confirms Retreat from the Enthusiast GPU Segment, to Focus on Gaining Market-Share

AMD in an interview with Tom's Hardware, confirmed that its next generation of gaming GPUs based on the RDNA 4 graphics architecture will not target the enthusiast graphics segment. Speaking with Paul Alcorn, AMD's Computing and Graphics Business Group head Jack Huynh, said that with its next...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[SolidQ]

won't make much money

it's cheap parts, they even at 400$ will get enough money, but Lisa love fat margin

The only way AMD is going to slow Nvidia and put themselves back in the market is by crashing it for Nvidia, not my tailing them.

AMD can't do nothing if avg consumer is retard and buying this sh*t. The average consumer deserves such prices.
Even of real price 800$ for RDNA4 compared 2k+ for 5070ti.

 

[FingerBang]

Yeah, I agree that AMD aren't in a position to price it too aggressively yet. but even if they did I'm not sure Nvidia would respond immediately as it would damage their brand. They'd probably get a Super on the market a bit quicker than planned in a few months rather than change MSRP of the current cards.

I do agree though, and when AMD took on Intel aggressively it was when their product was a tech that could really take it to the competitor for generations. The graphics side isn't there yet, and this opportunity is more Nvidia relaxing rather than gains by AMD (the 60 series is going to be impressive is my guess). I'm pretty sure they'll only go into full-on attack mode when / if they can get into a position like that against Nvidia.

This is not true. In gaming AMD was behind, but they were winning hard on pricing. They priced their CPUs to the point it was SO much cheaper for people to go with AMD. You'd get a CPU and MOBO and cooler for the price of a single Intel GPU. They got some market share there and AMD went from a sad joke to a serious contender. Things got great with Zen 2. The 3000 series offered a big jump up. It wasn't always the best, but now you has great pricing, tons of cores and in some games even beat Intel. With Zen 3 AMD managed to surpass Intel in basically every way, and you could upgrade the same motherboard you bought for your Zen 1 CPU! That platforms run has been legendary. The 5800x3D is still a fantastic CPU 4 years later.

Now, let's go back to the GPU market. AMD's problem is that they seem to lack a clear message and strategy. They seem happy to let Nvidia lead, by offering nothing groundbreaking like Zen 1 (many cores, chiplet based) nor seriously competing on pricing. RDNA and RDNA 2 started great, but the crypto boom made them very profitable with very little effort. It's clear that RDNA3 suffered not just fron technical issues, but from the inflated prices of the post-boom. They pulled an Nvidia by renaming cards that, by chip size, should have not being called what they were called. Those cards disappeared quickly from the radars once people realized that RT performance and FSR were way below what the greent team was offering. The 7900xtx was a really good card and would have destroyed the competition if it was called 6800xt and had launched at $700.

AMD has a shot this time, by offering a card that seems to be really close in performance to the tier ABOVE the one it's competing with, but it needs to be priced realistically. If this is not a Zen 1 moment, it might be closer to a Zen 2 one. Great hardware that doesn't claim the crown, but is priced so aggressively it doesn't make sense to spend more. But you have to ignore the shortages and the potential early high margins. You need your name to go around and people to take you seriously.

Tomorrow we'll know if AMD really cares

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

and last data
Cyberpunk 2077 (custom scene, 4K, no RT)
9070XT = 63FPS avg, 9070 = 52FPS avg (5070Ti scored 60FPS, 5080 scored 69FPS)
Alan Wake 2 (4K, no RT, custom scene)
9070XT = 59FPS, 9070 = 48FPS (5070Ti scored 55 FPS, 5080 scored 63FPS)

He's also saying 9070XT scales better with resolution, than XTX

It seems that the AMD 9070 XT will be faster than the RTX4080 / 5070ti and with such a huge OC potential, it could even compete with the 5080. Even $700 for such a powerful card will be quite cheap. I cant wait to see benchmarks and FSR4.0 comparisons.

 

[SolidQ]

Ma Su is posted

 

[moogman]

This is not true. In gaming AMD was behind, but they were winning hard on pricing. They priced their CPUs to the point it was SO much cheaper for people to go with AMD. You'd get a CPU and MOBO and cooler for the price of a single Intel GPU. They got some market share there and AMD went from a sad joke to a serious contender. Things got great with Zen 2. The 3000 series offered a big jump up. It wasn't always the best, but now you has great pricing, tons of cores and in some games even beat Intel. With Zen 3 AMD managed to surpass Intel in basically every way, and you could upgrade the same motherboard you bought for your Zen 1 CPU! That platforms run has been legendary. The 5800x3D is still a fantastic CPU 4 years later.

Now, let's go back to the GPU market. AMD's problem is that they seem to lack a clear message and strategy. They seem happy to let Nvidia lead, by offering nothing groundbreaking like Zen 1 (many cores, chiplet based) nor seriously competing on pricing. RDNA and RDNA 2 started great, but the crypto boom made them very profitable with very little effort. It's clear that RDNA3 suffered not just fron technical issues, but from the inflated prices of the post-boom. They pulled an Nvidia by renaming cards that, by chip size, should have not being called what they were called. Those cards disappeared quickly from the radars once people realized that RT performance and FSR were way below what the greent team was offering. The 7900xtx was a really good card and would have destroyed the competition if it was called 6800xt and had launched at $700.

AMD has a shot this time, by offering a card that seems to be really close in performance to the tier ABOVE the one it's competing with, but it needs to be priced realistically. If this is not a Zen 1 moment, it might be closer to a Zen 2 one. Great hardware that doesn't claim the crown, but is priced so aggressively it doesn't make sense to spend more. But you have to ignore the shortages and the potential early high margins. You need your name to go around and people to take you seriously.

Tomorrow we'll know if AMD really cares

My point was they had an advantage with Zen 1 as you say in your second paragraph. That advantage was something they could hit home on, whereas their GPU's marketing is "not quite as good as Nvidia but we can price lower"

AMD have a shot for this generation, sure but I'm certain that the strategy with CPU's was when they knew they were now a serious contender and could grow Zen into a competitor and I'm not sure they believe that's the case with their GPU's. Maybe Nvidia are going to put less focus on GPU's for good now, but the 50 series gives the signs of a company who knew they didn't have to do much rather than one who haven't got the resources to shift the market again if needed. Intel were in trouble against Zen, and I'd say that's not the case with Nvidia.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I was curious what the previous gen AMD cards were going for now so I went on Microcenter and wtf is happening with GPU stock right now? No Nvidia cards available above the 4060 and no AMD over the 6600

 

[SolidQ]

I went on Microcenter and wtf is happening with GPU stock right now?

All GPU since 7600XT is sold mostly

small update to specs. ROPS are add

 

[Luipadre]

Ma Su is posted

They know man... I usually dont give a shit about radeon reveals, but im tuning in tomorrow. I bet there are a lot of people like me so dont fuck this up

 

[StereoVsn]

They know man... I usually dont give a shit about radeon reveals, but im tuning in tomorrow. I bet there are a lot of people like me so dont fuck this up

Yep, I am willing to get an AMD card for the first time in a decade. Let’s see if AMD can pull this off.

I still think they will f up the price and availability.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Some benchs
And now for RT... Cyberpunk 2077 RT Ultra in 4K (custom scene)

9070XT gets 28FPS (no upscaling!) and 9070 gets 21FPS (5080 scored 33 FPS, 5070TI scored 29FPS)

PATH TRACING in 4K the 9070XT got 10FPS and the 9070 got 8 FPS (5080 scored 15FPS and 5070Ti got 12FPS)


OCing takes it to 5080 levels, but you can also overclock the 5080, that's true
Here is problem with 5080, it's cost much much more


Overall, with final data I gathered... 9070XT is a replacement to the XTX in raster, much better RT, losing some VRAM, but it didn't matter in testing for now... You get FSR4 and RT is just leagues ahead, it's a tier ahead of the XTX (с)

You can get a 5080 for the same price as some of the 9070XT models. Also where is the source for these?

 

[Bojji]

You can get a 5080 for the same price as some of the 9070XT models. Also where is the source for these?

Some guy on Reddit?

 

[SolidQ]

Not from RDNA4 event, but Ryzen AI Halo GPU

 

[ResilientBanana]

Some guy on Reddit?

Oh, so like every AMD release, it's bullshit. Guess we shall wait for real benches.

 

[Crayon]

You can get a 5080 for the same price as some of the 9070XT models. Also where is the source for these?

You can get a 5080 for the price of some 5070ti models, too.

 

[ResilientBanana]

You can get a 5080 for the price of some 5070ti models, too.

Agreed.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Its telling that it takes Nvidia to fuck up for AMD to even get a chance.

 

[FingerBang]

Its telling that it takes Nvidia to fuck up for AMD to even get a chance.

What's weird about it? The companies on top tend to fuck up and become arrogant. Intel did it. Sony did it during the PS3 era. Now it's Nvidia's turn.

In all fairness, so did AMD. They haven't raises core count and have slowly increased the price of their products compared to the previous generations.

The other companies can't compete until they can.

 

[thief183]

This is the first time I'm willing to jump ship, let's hope they deliver.

 

[FireFly]

Its telling that it takes Nvidia to fuck up for AMD to even get a chance.

AMD had more room to improve, since they seemingly weren't able to offer the clocks they wanted last time. This basically puts them back on par in performance per watt and performance per mm^2.

 

[Gamer79]

They will reveal it tomorrow I think. If it's a great price/performance metric, I may consider it. If it's another mediocre Nvdia -$50 price tag, I will pass with no regrets.

 

[SolidQ]

30+ games

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-fsr-4-coming-to-30-games-at-launch-heres-the-list

 

[Luipadre]

30+ games

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-fsr-4-coming-to-30-games-at-launch-heres-the-list

FSR4 manual toggle in the driver for FSR3.1 games? Nice

 

[Crayon]

30+ games

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-fsr-4-coming-to-30-games-at-launch-heres-the-list

So many things that remind me I'm not actually shopping for a card lol. That's the great divide in all of our chatter. I suppose what makes an exciting gpu is that it turns someone who wasn't planning to get anything into someone who is.

In this case, I'm looking at this list of games and it reminds me that my current card runs all of them great. The idea of paying 600-700 just to get a card that pounds them into dust is not too enticing when I step back and look at it.

FSR4 manual toggle in the driver for FSR3.1 games? Nice

This is a pretty great. With my viewing distance, I can set fsr3 to 1440p quality and it looks fine for most games. With fsr4, I should be able to push that down to balanced, which is a bonus chunk of fps on top of the real performance upgrade. Sort of makes the xt even more overkill, though.

.
.
.

The $50 spread between the dx and xt in these listings doesn't make sense at all. There's no way in hell that dx is coming in at $650.

Another eyebrow raiser - How much is a 9060xt supposed to cost? Thanks to their naming fuckery, that is going to be the successor to the 7700xt, which came out at $449. Do they really want a card with a 6 in the name on the shelf for $500? You know how people are with that. They think the name indicates some kind of hard spec.

 

[Schnauzer]

I hope this is not true. AMD has some potential to gain market share which would pay dividends in the long run.

As a 4090 owner, I will be skipping this generation. I would love to see AMD really capitalize on this opportunity. This generation has shown us that the market needs competition to correct itself.

 

[lachesis]

Well, at least some of the pre-built pc ones seem to fare much less than 5070ti.

So in IBUY Power's case (the one at bottom right - 1949.99 @ 9900x + 9070xt) with 5070ti + as cheap as possible parts came out to be about $2490.
That's about $541 dollar difference.

Sure there are so many variants you can consider - and not even sure how much they are putting in for the actual 5070ti (whether it's before premium/MSRP+labor cost only - or they are putting more labor cost & premium because this is 5070ti...) but it does look like 9070xt may be considerably cheaper than 5070ti.

Here's to the AMD hopium... lol

 

[CrustyBritches]

AMD needs to price these against the 5070's $550 price point. Forget the 5070 Ti. 5070 launches the day before 9070 series, and if it has decent availability then it could throw a wrench in the works for 9070 and 9070 XT. That's probably where Nvidia is wanting to push most gamers with the planned obsolescence 12GB VRAM. Despite that, it's going to have DLSS 4 transformer and MFG. That's why AMD needs to go hard with the price. Sandwich that card -$50 for 9070 and +$50 for 9070 XT.

 

[Puscifer]

Don't worry, if they launch at this price it'll be 250-300 off inside of 6 months. Nvidia owns mindshare. If AMD decides they want to be in this category at all they have to go for marketshare at the cost of profit. Once they have that customer loyalty they can work on their margins. But if they go with this possible pricing strategy its never even getting started.

Crazy how they can get the CPU side so right and proceed to constantly shit all over themselves in the GPU sector.

Just remember that the same group of engineers that dominated with the 7950/7970 all left around because AMD wouldn't invest money into the GPU division. Gamers Nexus even said yesterday in a great video that this an egg on Nvidias face moment that AMD can capitalize on like they did with the GTX 400 series (and boy did they, I remember the batmobile Radeon memes lol) that let them even out the GPU market to a 50/50 split. I want them to have a comeback, I've already said plenty times before I don't see myself investing in new consoles and my 4080 build is likely my last due to Nvidias price gouging but if they come out swinging tomorrow I'm all in baby. They have to be good

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

FSR4 compatibility "RX 9000 series graphics and above" . AMD folks were laughing at NVIDIA for restricting the FG feature to the RTX 40/50 series, but now AMD is doing exactly the same thing .

 

[kiphalfton]

Well, at least some of the pre-built pc ones seem to fare much less than 5070ti.

So in IBUY Power's case (the one at bottom right - 1949.99 @ 9900x + 9070xt) with 5070ti + as cheap as possible parts came out to be about $2490.
That's about $541 dollar difference.

Sure there are so many variants you can consider - and not even sure how much they are putting in for the actual 5070ti (whether it's before premium/MSRP+labor cost only - or they are putting more labor cost & premium because this is 5070ti...) but it does look like 9070xt may be considerably cheaper than 5070ti.

Here's to the AMD hopium... lol

So what you're saying is the 9070 XT should cost $200. Nice.

 

[lachesis]

So what you're saying is the 9070 XT should cost $200. Nice.

Wouldn't that be nice! lol. So that's what I meant by a lot of variables, including labor cost + markups or what kind of 5070ti they are putting in etc...

 

[MikeM]

FSR4 compatibility "RX 9000 series graphics and above" . AMD folks were laughing at NVIDIA for restricting the FG feature to the RTX 40/50 series, but now AMD is doing exactly the same thing .

They did mention that FSR4 variant may come to the 7000 series. I’m not waiting though- got my 5070ti on order.

 

[Bojji]

They did mention that FSR4 variant may come to the 7000 series. I’m not waiting though- got my 5070ti on order.

If it comes o RDNA3 it will be lower quality or require more performance.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Plenty of people hate him here of GAF, but he has a point. If you can lower the price and still turn a profit do it, it will create a huge wave of positive support and more importantly adopters who will have bought AMD for maybe the first time in decades. Like how much do these cards cost to make? Can you sell a 9070 XT for 550 and still turn a profit on it? Probably

So do it, get your foot in the door and people into your ecosystem. If I can pay slightly more for an Nividia cars that gives me superior performance in ray tracing and DLSS over FSR, most people are going to take it, you need to massively lower your price to combat this + brand loyalty.

And this is coming from someone who got a launch 5080, so I don't have a hat in this race I already picked a side. But your not going to sell more cards than Nvidia than announcing Nvidia -50$ whej the features between the two cards are not within striking range, and people are starting to care about ray tracing now.

The only way AMD is going to slow Nvidia and put themselves back in the market is by crashing it for Nvidia, not my tailing them.

None of this is remotely relevant when AMD can't actually produce enough product where they could outsell Nvidia even if the price was $50

 

[SolidQ]

If it comes o RDNA3 it will be lower quality or require more performance.

They will improve FSR3, might possible for RX 7xxx series is FSR 3.5 with some AI ench, but not fully

 

[MikeM]

If it comes o RDNA3 it will be lower quality or require more performance.

Obviously. 7000 series is lacking FP8 that 9000 series will have. It could still be good, but its all speculation right now.

Ps5 Pro uses FP8 going off memory.

 

[skyfinch]

PS5 owners, please buy this game. Sales will help fund Forza Horizon 6 and get that project off the ground.

 

[TheRedRiders]

PS5 owners, please buy this game. Sales will help fund Forza Horizon 6 and get that project off the ground.

wrong thread m8

 

[FingerBang]

PS5 owners, please buy this game. Sales will help fund Forza Horizon 6 and get that project off the ground.

Of course man, I'm going to buy 2 9070xt if that helps MS make Forza Horizon 6!

 

[SolidQ]

550\600 for both

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[CrustyBritches]

Are we going to do a reveal thread or use one of the existing threads? Maybe we should do a thread with a last minute poll guessing the price and then the mods can set it to live an hour or so before the reveal. I figure Draugoth AI should already have this preloaded and ready to go.

 

[Three]

Isn't that $686 USD? Plus there are no tarrifs in China

 

[Bojji]

Isn't that $686 USD? Plus there are no tarrifs in China

Without tariffs it looks "up to" 650USD MSRP (without tax obviously).

 

[SolidQ]

Without tariffs it looks "up to" 650USD MSRP

It's 550/600. Classic upsell tactics like was with 7700/7900XT

 

[Bojji]

It's 550/600. Classic upsell tactics like was with 7700/7900XT

Could be. But no matter MSRP, real life price for most models could end up being different.