-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Microsoft Closes Redfall Developer Arkane Austin, HiFi Rush Developer Tango Gameworks, and More in Devastating Cuts at Bethesda
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- News
Little Chicken
Gold Member
You're getting emotional.
nial
Member
Of course? They collaborated with Sony for a project that was having a hard time in materializing, which led to Sony stopping production of their game.
They were indie, Sony didn't have any say in their future. Unlike MS with Tango.
Last edited:
bitbydeath
Member
Knew this was coming but I thought they’d start with their other small studios first.
Compulsion, Double Fine, and the Initiative.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Ninja Theory is gone after Hellblade 2 releases as well.
Compulsion, Double Fine, and the Initiative.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Ninja Theory is gone after Hellblade 2 releases as well.
SportsFan581
Member
This kind of a broad statement is probably the perfect example of everything wrong with the gaming industry in one sentence.
Hi Fi Rush wasn't a game with a sky high budget, wasn't in the brightest burning genre (we all know how the rhythm genre is lighting up the sales charts), and it had a experimental launch that didn't give it a runnup.
It's not rocket science that the completion rates lower when games are on a sub service or given as a free game with gold or PS+. That's the natural thing that happens when players that might not have played it otherwise try it because it is there. We'll see how the PS completion rate looks, I'm sure it'll be fine. If we expect the smaller games to hit the numbers of huge AAA games, there won't be any smaller games. The developers have to learn to accept a smaller return in exchange for the lower dev costs.
The rhythm thing seemed to really turn off a lot of players on this one. It's too bad more didn't give it a shot because it is a great game and you can complete the game without being an absolute master of the rhythm genre. No need to put down a good game because it doesn't sell, that will just leave us with nothing but recycled junk that hits all the safest data points.
Buying studios and expect results? that's what lazy ambitious workers do, it's 2024 and that segment in the industry will vanish into the abyss, validation takes hardwork, there're no shortcuts.
Last edited:
Majukun
Member
This is not about gamepass, was about Microsoft's first party studios missing the mark more often than not and the company needing to restructure resources and teams so to make sure that every game they release is top notch.
Is exactly what Sony did during the ps3 era, and the result was an increase in quality, but also a lot of games canceled and Studios closed
It's still a fucking shame because they closed some of the more interesting parts of their portfolio of studios and left Bethesda proper that has been unexciting for a while.
Last edited:
SEGAvangelist
Member
He seemed pretty vocal right after he left the last time.
MrMephistoX
Gold Member
The shitty thing is even if Sony formed a new studio tomorrow with Tango staff MS would probably never sell them Tango’s franchise IP: not that it’s particularly well known outside of gamer circles. Would imagine the closure will also have a chilling effect on MS’ ability to buy any Japanese studio moving forward.
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
Was he? Maybe he wised up then.
GHG
Member
Me? Was it the early ABK days or did I not respond? I had the ABK thread and like 50 other acquisition threads on ignore until that circus was overWere just tiresome platform warring and people talking in circles.
I kinda think MS have enough money to deal with the costs. Just chop off some Excel team or something. HiFi is one of their highest rated and well-received games among both critics and gamers, seems absurd to close that studio. Give them more money to hire more people and let them do something bigger instead.
Yeh here is what I said:
And this is what you said in response:
|OT| - Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)
Exactly that. Woooof, you are setting yourself up for a classic L when Sony requires logins to their PSN network for their Gaas games on Steam or Epic launcher. Because you know its coming right? ? If it happens with games that I'm interested in purchasing then I'll complain about that...
As for the having enough money, they do but it's all an opportunity cost. They've already given a significant amount of money and leeway to the Xbox division over the years. It's totalled well over 80+ billion for acquisitions in recent years alone. Xbox sales are dwindling, the userbase aren't buying software on the platform and gamepass subs have stagnated. Meanwhile they have other divisions that they have been putting money in to and have been seeing near immediate financial results. Something has to give and I don't think we've seen the last of this fallout yet.
Last edited:
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Last edited:
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Everyone left will be moved to team Fallout
Topher
Identifies as young
He is planning his revenge for everyone who hurt his feelings today.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
yes
Topher
Identifies as young
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
So they can sabotage themselves like always
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Chances are it would have leaked before the showcase. Probably better they eat the shit sandwich now in one big gulp, and hope enough people will have forgotten about it.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Oh it definitely will. That Sega/Atlus acquisition so many fanatics have been praying for is dead. I imagine Platinum Games could still be on the table though
It is partly about Game Pass, though. If Game Pass sub growth hit MS's internal metrics on time, and was bringing in real substantial profits, and had strong projections for future growth...these studio closures and firings wouldn't be happening. It's also interesting how these are coming from the Zenimax side; MS completed that acquisition in early/mid 2021 so it's been a little over 3 years for them to produce results yet so far Zenimax as a whole hasn't done much.
So while it's definitely more at play than just Game Pass, we can't omit Game Pass's failure in growth completely. That is absolutely a component into what we're seeing today, and will be seeing more of over the next 12-18 months
Last edited:
rhodesianshepard
Banned
The whole point of gamepass is that the AA and smaller AAA games are supposed to lead to growth for the subscription service. Phil Spencer has been spouting for years about letting studios follow their own unique vision. Gamepass has failed. Microsoft is no longer interested in innovation. They are just trying to make games with the biggest IP's going forward
Last edited:
Topher
Identifies as young
Feels like they are doing a good job
Yeah, maybe that's the thinking. Just one hell of a downer and Microsoft is going to come out next month pounding their chest?
Unknown?
Member
They could have simply postponed the decision.
Banjo64
cumsessed
They should have done it during their showcase for maximum meme potential and signed it off with Wonderwall.
Woopah
Member
I don't think Nintendo has closed any studios that I can think of, and they've certainly had opportunities (NST, Retro, Monolith Soft).
Who would buy a closed studios?
The layoff situation between Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft is pretty different. And no they don't get a free pass, plenty of people criticised Sony earlier this year.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I bet if more PC gamers linked to Xbox accounts, these studios would still be open.
Topher
Identifies as young
Last edited:
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
I'd like to see the whole western branch of the industry crash and burn and I'm not joking. Let only ashes remain, and let a myriad of little indie and AA studios emerge from the rotting corpses of these companies.
Majukun
Member
Again, if gamepass was the issue and they know it, they would have changed the gamepass, not closed studios.
Ms left the studios follow their creative flow but in terms of critical acclaim (since sales count relatively with the gp model), really only hi-fi rush hit the mark... They needed to change something in how they were using their resources, because they certainly don't lack the money nor the time to make great games
My issue is mainly with them going through this by cutting some of the more 'fresh' parts of their portfolio, but hopefully they will absorb the right people into the teams that still survive and gave them the ability to make a difference.
sachos
Member
How the turn tables
Topher
Identifies as young
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Matt Booty - We're also closing down Alpha Dog Studio's
Phil Spencer Whispers: It's Alpha Dog Games
Matt Booty - Alpha Dog Games
Varteras
Member
Not to be contrarian, but this is exactly what I thought was going to happen. Zenimax was a $7 billion purchase and it was already commercially struggling before they were bought. Nothing they collectively produced amounted to much in the time Microsoft has owned them. Even Starfield missed the mark. This might have been something that they would have been given more time on. But then the Activision deal happened. It changed everything. The people calling the shots want to see money being made now. Microsoft is shifting to a handful of big franchises and they've little appetite for anything that isn't up there with them. Studios bought as part of a major publisher purchase were almost certainly going to be targeted first if they weren't already producing total bangers commercially.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
This kind of a broad statement is probably the perfect example of everything wrong with the gaming industry in one sentence.
Hi Fi Rush wasn't a game with a sky high budget, wasn't in the brightest burning genre (we all know how the rhythm genre is lighting up the sales charts), and it had a experimental launch that didn't give it a runnup.
Here's the credits for Hi Fi Rush...
Hi-Fi Rush credits (Windows, 2023) - MobyGames
The official game credits for Hi-Fi Rush released on Windows in 2023. The credits include 1,502 people.
www.mobygames.com
Doesn't look like a cheap indie game to me. Again, 3 million players (on GamePass no less) with a laughable completion rate is a Suicide Squad level bomb. We didn't want to act like it because some of us enjoyed the game.
Majukun
Member
Gamepass would be the issue if those games were critical darlings but still didn't bring new people into the ecosystem, but other than hi-fi rush, that it's still a new franchise from a relatively small studio in a genre that doesn't sell gang busters anyway, all the other games have been met as either a complete failure or just 'meh'.Oh it definitely will. That Sega/Atlus acquisition so many fanatics have been praying for is dead. I imagine Platinum Games could still be on the table though
It is partly about Game Pass, though. If Game Pass sub growth hit MS's internal metrics on time, and was bringing in real substantial profits, and had strong projections for future growth...these studio closures and firings wouldn't be happening. It's also interesting how these are coming from the Zenimax side; MS completed that acquisition in early/mid 2021 so it's been a little over 3 years for them to produce results yet so far Zenimax as a whole hasn't done much.
So while it's definitely more at play than just Game Pass, we can't omit Game Pass's failure in growth completely. That is absolutely a component into what we're seeing today, and will be seeing more of over the next 12-18 months
It's unsurprising Tha games like redfall, or starfield didn't bring a peak of subscription when they have been met by most gamers either as a failure or as a disappointment.
That's what needed to change in general, because regardless if the business model is gamepass or a more traditional killer app based one like Sony, all it counts is that you have good first party games on your system, and Microsoft was not making many at the moment.
Plague Doctor
Member
BUT GUYS... Phil is still trying to repair the damage from Mattricks fuck up from...
<checks notes>
2013.
Every CEO needs like 20 years to turn a ship around. This is an internet fact.
Extend that mother fucker's contract and give him a raise to acquire and kill more studios so finally... we can solve the problems of 2013.
We can't fire someone when they are just starting to initiate their own policies... after a decade... finally, everything coming out now will be Phil's golden touch.
<checks notes>
2013.
Every CEO needs like 20 years to turn a ship around. This is an internet fact.
Extend that mother fucker's contract and give him a raise to acquire and kill more studios so finally... we can solve the problems of 2013.
We can't fire someone when they are just starting to initiate their own policies... after a decade... finally, everything coming out now will be Phil's golden touch.
Last edited:
nial
Member
God, I always try to have level-headed discussions with Miku, but his pseudo-elitism over the slop produced by one of the biggest corporations in the entire world is so damn fucking cringe.
Bro be quiet. You were up in here vehemently defending and promoting Redfall, so much so that you even managed to get yourself banned over it.
Give it a rest.
He always treats shit like Redfall and Starfield akin to some JP-only avant-garde Dreamcast exclusives. It's so laughable.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
I've been wondering the same thing... as I watch their Psychodyssey documentary which covers the time period when MS purchased them.What are the chances they shut down DoubleFine?
Fess
Member
Yeah okay, I still think that way but much have changed to both the Xbox brand and Gamepass since then. I’m really just in shock right now. Can’t really think now so sorry if I’m rambling. I used to have a clear view of what Microsoft will likely do in gaming, but today I have no clue. They’ve completely lost their way if they think they can go hunt for big money from small studios while still trying to build a subscription service future with wide appeal. It’ll just end up with a CoD scenario and support studios for big IP sequels.Yeh here is what I said:
And this is what you said in response:
|OT| - Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)
Exactly that. Woooof, you are setting yourself up for a classic L when Sony requires logins to their PSN network for their Gaas games on Steam or Epic launcher. Because you know its coming right? ? If it happens with games that I'm interested in purchasing then I'll complain about that...www.neogaf.com
As for the having enough money, they do but it's all an opportunity cost. They've already given a significant amount of money and leeway to the Xbox division over the years. It's totalled well over 80+ billion for acquisitions in recent years alone. Xbox sales are dwindling, the userbase aren't buying software on the platform and gamepass subs have stagnated. Meanwhile they have other divisions that they have been putting money in to and have been seeing near immediate financial results. Something has to give and I don't think we've seen the last of this fallout yet.
I’d say that a game like HiFi Rush is more important for a service and the industry at large than a new Forza Horizon, and I say this as someone who loves FH and has barely even played HiFi.
The whole point of having smaller studios with odd ideas is to build a diverse library of games so people of all ages and with all interests can find something to play.
MS just made sure they’ll have a less diverse library with less games for all ages made mostly for people with samey interests.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
The closure of Tango pisses me off so fucking bad like you can't imagine.
The Evil Within is one of my favorite games from the last decade, I was always rooting for them, always knew it was a longshot, but everything seemed like it was going to be ok because of Hi Fi Gravity Rush.
FUCK Microsoft.
The Evil Within is one of my favorite games from the last decade, I was always rooting for them, always knew it was a longshot, but everything seemed like it was going to be ok because of Hi Fi Gravity Rush.
FUCK Microsoft.
Nydius
Member
The reason they haven’t done more sweeping changes to Game Pass yet is because they have painted themselves into a corner with Game Pass by committing, repeatedly, to put all first party games on the service “day one” and spending the last 6 years conditioning their most hard core fans to expect certain benefits from Game Pass.
If they try to make sweeping changes to it, they will face significant backlash, probably more than they get from closing developers. We saw how many torches and pitchforks came out when the price increase rumor of Xbox Live Gold came to light. Imagine what would happen if they came out and said “Game Pass Ultimate will remain the same price but you won’t get first party games day one and we’re ditching EA Play.”
