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[Punished Miku]

The game was released with zero promotion. Twice!

Shadowdropped on Xbox Gamepass and tossed on PS5 in a press release + a cheaply-cut trailer.

Gamepass can be clearly attributed as a reason for Tango Gameworks' demise because MS catering to gamepass in that way is what fucked up what could have been their most successful launch. The game was ready for the Game Awards less than a month before release and they couldn't even be bothered to tease it.

Dumb management on all counts.

That's a fair critique. But honestly I don't think that's really the cause. Lots of games have gone on to succeed with little to no promotion, like Helldivers, Palworld, and Manor Lord. Hi-Fi Rush is only really going to appeal to the hardcore gamer crowd, and most of them had every opportunity to know it existed. It had a bit of a viral moment because of the shadow drop so people heard about it. They didn't promote it on PS at all, but then again they didn't promote Sea of Thieves either and look at that. I think it outsold Stella Blade on PSN which got a ton of promo stuff.

 

[Topher]

I'm wondering if Microsoft was setting all this up by separating out the ABK numbers in their last quarterly report. The numbers showed ABK was the only part of MS gaming that had growth in revenue, if I recall. Is that kind of breakout typical after an acquisition? If not, seems like MS might have giving stockholders a reason to be in favor of this decision. Gamers be damned.

The two are not comparable at all, one gives people a cheap and affordable way to get access to a large gaming library, the other was a move which would actively restrict people in 170+ countries from playing a game they already paid for.

He's not making that comparison. He is talking about using Game Pass as leverage the way Steam users used reviews/refunds. Doesn't matter though. The damage to Helldivers 2 was undone. Can't walk back closing a studio.

 

[Dazraell]

Remember that daddy EA meme where EA takes his young son to the graveyard to shoot him? Time to update it to Microsoft!

Not exactly what you mentioned, but this one is accurate too

 

[midnightAI]

Come on, let's not make a disrespectful generalization about Xbox consumers, especially when what you suggest they should do sounds quite unreasonable.

I think that a lot of Game Pass subscriptions were taken 1 or 2 years ago when there were really interesting deals. I am expecting this to naturally fall when these expire, because getting 3 years for 90$ isn't exactly the same as paying 15$ per month. I am never going to put that much money in any kind of subscription that's for sure.

But in any case, my subscription is paid for another full year, so I can't cancel anything and this is true for a lot of people. That's the first reason why what you say is not going to happen.

Second one is that these studio closures don't affect directly players short term. Nothing is being taken away from Game Pass, or from the planning until the end of the year. And a showcase is coming June. You can be sure that Xbox are going to announce things to reinject some energy into their business.

Many people here say that the consumers should take whatever decision fits them the best, without caring about brand loyalty or whatever, but suddenly when something happens that don't even affect their consumption (at least short term), they should sanction it ? These are unreasonable expectations.

One thing most people forget is that for every XBox sold they subsidise it, and it's estimated (nigh on confirmed by Spencer) that the Series S loses them around $200 per sale. So if you get 3 years of Gamepass for $90 they are still $110 in the hole after 3 years not even counting the amount of money it costs to run the XBox Game Studios and pay to have games put on Gamepass. This is why I don't think they are making any profit from Gamepass (without fudging the numbers)

Sony also subsidise the PS5, but that's now believed to at least break even, but even then, they get money through game sales as well as PS+ so they are in the green really quickly.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I think if their consoles didn't tank and GP saw a normal amount of slow growth, that would be true. That's why I think the sub model is so compelling, because if enough people do participate it is a safety net. Starfield not moving the needle at all in terms of console sales was clearly the end. There is no safety net because they're going 3rd party. The reason people expect cooler and more niche content sometimes from 1st party is because of their ecosystem funding. That's going to be gone and they'll be contracting. GP may or may not make it, but they're probably planning for minimum 50% decline in subs since a lot of Xbox gamers will go to PS5 / PS6. They may be able to land somewhere around 8-10 million subs on PC, so their safety net will be much smaller. We'll see if they decide to keep it going or not.

I, for one, couldn't be more grateful that Gamepass has been a complete and utter failure. It was destined to fail and in order for it to be successful it needed to bring in absolutely unheard number of people.

If Xbox had stronger first party development and more competent studio management, GP MIGHT have had a fighting chance. Thats a only a MIGHT.

But they let people like Phil Spencer, Bonnie Ross, Aaron Greenberg and Matt Booty stick around, while they let people like Rod Fergusson, J. Allard, and Pete Hines walk. Letting Pete Hines was one of the dumbest decisions ever made. Love him or hate him, he knows a thing about studio management and is a vet.

I was initially excited about Xbox acquiring Bethesda cuz I foolishly in that moment took it as a sign that Xbox was finally going all out and competing. Fucking stupid of me.

I quickly remembered that it was far more likely that Xbox would run these studios into the ground instead of allowing them to thrive.

Turns out I was right. I was fucking right and I hate it.

But so many Xbox fanboys decided they would rather be a whores to a piece of plastic than face the truth.

 

[Topher]

The game was released with zero promotion. Twice!

Shadowdropped on Xbox Gamepass and tossed on PS5 in a press release + a cheaply-cut trailer.

Gamepass can be clearly attributed as a reason for Tango Gameworks' demise because MS catering to gamepass in that way is what fucked up what could have been their most successful launch. The game was ready for the Game Awards less than a month before release and they couldn't even be bothered to tease it.

Dumb management on all counts.

I recall arguing with folks saying Hi Fi Rush would have done much better had it not been shadowdropped and actually had some marketing behind it. Hell, Microsoft put more money behind Redfall than they did Hi Fi Rush. If that doesn't highlight the utter cluelessness of MS Gaming leadership, I don't know what does.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Let all agree that it was Gamepass that fucked the sucess of Hi Fi Rush and Tango Gameworks?

No. Hi Fi Rush and Tango Gameworks f***** themselves.

 

[Astray]

That's a fair critique. But honestly I don't think that's really the cause. Lots of games have gone on to succeed with little to no promotion, like Helldivers, Palworld, and Manor Lord. Hi-Fi Rush is only really going to appeal to the hardcore gamer crowd, and most of them had every opportunity to know it existed. It had a bit of a viral moment because of the shadow drop so people heard about it. They didn't promote it on PS at all, but then again they didn't promote Sea of Thieves either and look at that. I think it outsold Stella Blade on PSN which got a ton of promo stuff.

Literally no to the bolded:

- Helldivers 2 was revealed in Sony's PS Showcase last year (May '23), got updated trailers as time went on, featured blogposts etc.
- Palworld was actually revealed at Summer Games Fest '23 in June 2023, 6 months before the early access release.
- Manor Lords was actually revealed 3 years ago, and steadily built its hype up.

Even a small company like Pocketpair managed to promote their game better than what MS did with Hi-Fi Rush, even the hardcore gamers need to be promoted to, it's Marketing 101.

 

[tommib]

I recall arguing with folks saying Hi Fi Rush would have done much better had it not been shadowdropped and actually had some marketing behind it. Hell, Microsoft put more money behind Redfall than they did Hi Fi Rush. If that doesn't highlight the utter cluelessness of MS Gaming leadership, I don't know what does.

I don’t understand how they’ve sent Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush to die on PS5. These are quality games that should’ve been heavily marketed. They just appeared there on the store. It’s utterly bizarre.

 

[cireza]

Sorry, but bullshit.

You can stop using your GamePass subscription any time. Some countries even allow for pro-rata refunds:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb...riptions-38c81df4-10c1-f3eb-8d2f-b04f980c435f

The excuse 'I've got a good deal, so I'm happy' is the worst kind of self serving horseshit.

Companies like MS don't give a shit as long as they know you're still supporting them. And you're still supporting them.

If you are expecting people to cancel an already paid subscription for a service they are happy with, because the company laid off staff, you are completely delusional.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I guess they could just refund everyone for the time they have on their account.

I wonder at what rate though? Would they give money or store credit?

EDIT: I know you're not talking about the process, but it did make me wonder.

You can only stack GamePass for 36 months. So, all they have to do is sunset it and say no new subscriptions after X date in the future. You wouldn't refund anything.

 

[Punished Miku]

Literally no to the bolded:

- Helldivers 2 was revealed in Sony's PS Showcase last year (May '23), got updated trailers as time went on, featured blogposts etc.
- Palworld was actually revealed at Summer Games Fest '23 in June 2023, 6 months before the early access release.
- Manor Lords was actually revealed 3 years ago, and steadily built its hype up.

Even a small company like Pocketpair managed to promote their game better than what MS did with Hi-Fi Rush, even the hardcore gamers need to be promoted to, it's Marketing 101.

Yeah maybe so. I still think it was cool and worth a shot. I heard 10x more about Hi-Fi Rush in the news than any of the 3 games you listed, so I don't really think it was not selling due to the marketing. It got a trailer at a Xbox event and the press ran with the story.

It Was Bethesda's Idea to Shadow Drop Hi-Fi Rush

A high-level source reveals that Bethesda Softworks was behind the decision to shadow drop Tango Gameworks’ animated rhythm action game Hi-Fi Rush.

gamerant.com

I think Bethesda was just wanting to try out a new marketing style for Gamepass.

 

[Astray]

I recall arguing with folks saying Hi Fi Rush would have done much better had it not been shadowdropped and actually had some marketing behind it. Hell, Microsoft put more money behind Redfall than they did Hi Fi Rush. If that doesn't highlight the utter cluelessness of MS Gaming leadership, I don't know what does.

I remember arguing this too, but people kept bringing up Greenberg's tweet and the 3 mil player figure like it mattered somehow.

Redfall was Microsoft's 1st $70 game.. Let that sink in, someone higher-up looked at their upcoming slate, and decided that Redfall needed to be the 1st $70 game, not an long-anticipated product (Starfield), not an established property (Indiana Jones or Forza Motorsport).. No, they chose Redfall.

Fallout TV show was known to all MS/Bethesda higher-ups ages ago, they knew how good it would be, and yet they chose to not have ANYTHING that financially capitalizes on the attention the franchise would get except for some shitty update that didn't even work right!

People talk about how MS aren't given a fair shot blah blah blah, but what can anyone do when they squander everything they get, even when fate smiles at them and hands them a W, they break it into two L's! If the train keeps getting wrecked in perpetuity, people WILL comment on it.

If you follow wrestling even tangentially, This is basically WCW/TNA all over again but in gaming.

 

[Edmund]

Maybe when Satya said *Let us compete!", what he really meant was let us compete and see who can shut down more studios.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If you are expecting people to cancel an already paid subscription for a service they are with, because the company laid off staff, you are completely delusional.

It was a nice idealistic thought. He's not expecting anything from consumeristic drones. Don't worry

 

[tommib]

If you are expecting people to cancel an already paid subscription for a service they are happy with, because the company laid off staff, you are completely delusional.

They should be cancelling because now there’s no hope for an Evil Within 60 fps patch or TEW3. I would cancel gamepass if I was subscribed. I would do it twice.

 

[jroc74]

History has not been kind to these people.

Everyone have a read of the first couple of pages of this thread:

Shuhei Yoshida: "We believe in the premium release of a title" before subscriptions

"The new PS Plus has tiers and essentially it’s like the old PS Plus, we still release two or three new games every month and a new tier, Extra, has a catalogue of hundreds of games for people to play. For Extra, our approach [is] we like to help the publishers [with] lifecycle management. I was...

www.neogaf.com

So many topics aging like milk, crows about to be on the endangered species list...

And yet you still see some ppl defending MS's decisions with Game Pass.

Game Pass itself isn't the problem, what MS tried/is trying to do with it is.

 

[cireza]

It was a nice idealistic thought. He's not expecting anything from consumeristic drones. Don't worry

They should be cancelling because now there’s no hope for an Evil Within 60 fps patch or TEW3. I would cancel gamepass if I was subscribed. I would do it twice.

Just like you, I sold my PS4 when Sony closed Japan Studio.

 

[Astray]

Yeah maybe so. I still think it was cool and worth a shot. I heard 10x more about Hi-Fi Rush in the news than any of the 3 games you listed, so I don't really think it was not selling due to the marketing. It got a trailer at a Xbox event and the press ran with the story.

It Was Bethesda's Idea to Shadow Drop Hi-Fi Rush

A high-level source reveals that Bethesda Softworks was behind the decision to shadow drop Tango Gameworks’ animated rhythm action game Hi-Fi Rush.

gamerant.com

I think Bethesda was just wanting to try out a new marketing style for Gamepass.

According to Phil Spencer.. whose word is probably as good as an old used shoe at this point.

Xbox head Phil Spencer shared in a new post on Twitter that publisher Bethesda Gameworks was behind the decision to do a shadow drop release for Hi-Fi Rush, stating that “it’s fun to have some positive surprises.”

Bethesda are no longer an independent entity anymore, things like marketing plans etc definitely have to go through the higher-ups like Greenberg etc, someone somewhere in MS had the opportunity to turn the prospective L into a W and they didn't.

 

[Unknown?]

Mircrosoft is such a disgusting company, haha. Pure, evil, soulless capitalism.

There is nothing capitalist about them. You could call it the old phrasing of fascism(merger of corporate and state power) but a more aptly named definition is corporatism. They use government to have an unfair advantage to crush competition.

 

[Punished Miku]

According to Phil Spencer.. whose word is probably as good as an old used shoe at this point.



Bethesda are no longer an independent entity anymore, things like marketing plans etc definitely have to go through the higher-ups like Greenberg etc, someone somewhere in MS had the opportunity to turn the prospective L into a W and they didn't.

I'm sure they worked together on it. It was at an Xbox event. I mean, duh.

 

[tommib]

Just like you, I sold my PS4 when Sony closed Japan Studio.

I’ll sell my PS5 the moment Housemarque is dismantled or is found out to be working on a GOW spinoff. My eyes are all on how Sony treats Housemarque. The last bastion of the old Sony.

 

[Roni]

Xbox will end up in the same place it was at the end of the 360 era: they'll hold valuable IP, but employ no one who can do anything with it. And then those IP will start rotting...

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Just like you, I sold my PS4 when Sony closed Japan Studio.

I'm tired of my sony fanboy shtick, just fyi before you clown yourself some more.

 

[adamsapple]

They should be cancelling because now there’s no hope for an Evil Within 60 fps patch or TEW3. I would cancel gamepass if I was subscribed. I would do it twice.

I'm not sure what game pass would have to do with a potential TEW 60 FPS patch. The game developers aren't the ones going back to do the FPS boost patches, that's done by the Xbox BC team.

There's no overlap there at all.

If you are expecting people to cancel an already paid subscription for a service they are happy with, because the company laid off staff, you are completely delusional.

Basically. It's a service and people are using it.

That photo of Phil Spencer gives me Kyle Rittenhouse vibes that little murdering prick. I think the the suit and neck mixed with punchable face

 

[Punished Miku]

I don’t understand how they’ve sent Pentiment and Hi-Fi Rush to die on PS5. These are quality games that should’ve been heavily marketed. They just appeared there on the store. It’s utterly bizarre.

They showcased Pentiment in a Nintendo Direct, and that is the smart play really. Much more likely to be successful there.

 

[Banjo64]

Definitely seems to have played a part according to Daniel Ahmad....

Yet more flip flopping however this is a natural course correction.

Microsoft backed the $80b worth of acquisitions based on laughable fudged projections like 70m subscribers by 2026. Obviously this was never attainable apart from in Phil’s wildest wet dreams.

Microsoft are now taking charge and going back to the traditional, proven, profitable model.

However the damage done to the brand is terminal.

The only thing I’m left questioning is how the Xbox leadership team is still employed after scamming daddy egg for $80b.

 

[tommib]

I'm not sure what game pass would have to do with a potential TEW 60 FPS patch. The game developers aren't the ones going back to do the FPS boost patches, that's done by the Xbox BC team.

Didn’t Bethesda just released a cross platform 60 fps next gen version of Fallout 4? That has nothing to do with the BC team. The dream of seeing The Evil Within running at 60 fps across consoles is beyond dead.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Didn’t Bethesda just released a cross platform 60 fps next gen version of Fallout 4? That has nothing to do with the BC team. The dream of seeing The Evil Within running at 60 fps across consoles is beyond dead.

They had that FPS Boost thing for backwards compatible titles. Thought they abandoned it though.

 

[adamsapple]

Didn’t Bethesda just released a cross platform 60 fps next gen version of Fallout 4? That has nothing to do with the BC team. The dream of seeing The Evil Within running at 60 fps across consoles is beyond dead.

True but TEW is even older than Fallout 4, you'd think if they intended to do a re-release of the game, they would have done that. At least Fallout has the excuse of capitalizing on a popular TV show that just came out.

They had that FPS Boost thing for backwards compatible titles. Thought they abandoned it though.

Yes, hoping they revive it. BC is probably one of the few things modern Xbox definitively outshines modern PS at.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yes, hoping they revive it. BC is probably one of the few things modern Xbox definitively outshines modern PS at.

Yeah. I'll always agree Sony's BC team looks amateur in comparison.

 

[Jesb]

Why wouldn’t they atleast sell the developer instead of just killing them off.

 

[diffusionx]

The concept behind GamePass is fundamentally flawed. Videogames aren't movies. People find a game they like and play it. If you are a big Age of Empires or Forza fan it makes no sense whatsoever to keep a GamePass subscription when you can buy the game for $50. GP only works for one specific type of gamer, a person with major case of FOMO who wants to play a lot of stuff. The sort of person who posts on a forum like this. It always had a ceiling.

Spencer's plan for quarterly releases to keep people engaged was also dependent on basically getting a blackjack every single year, it's really hard to ship a game and it's hard to ship four games and it's really really hard to ship four great games that will keep people subscribed to your service. MS shipped four "big" games last year, and three of them were underwhelming. They bought Activision for the content but look at that company - they basically ship one game a year at this point, all their studios work on it, and yet the past three games have been total, unequivocal shit.

That's why MS is (probably) abandoning this plan and as such is shutting down the studios that they had to set up that schedule.

Not exactly what you mentioned, but this one is accurate too

Lol at the "new controller available" sign

 

[Dazraell]

Lol at the "new controller available" sign

I also loved Toys for Bob portrayed as a rabbit that got away lol

 

[FunkMiller]

The two are not comparable at all, one gives people a cheap and affordable way to get access to a large gaming library, the other was a move which would actively restrict people in 170+ countries from playing a game they already paid for.

Indeed. What Microsoft is doing is far, far worse.

 

[FunkMiller]

If you are expecting people to cancel an already paid subscription for a service they are happy with, because the company laid off staff, you are completely delusional.

'If you are expecting people to ask for a refund for a game they really love and are happy with, because the company demanded a sign in account, you are completely delusional.'

Again... Microsoft will get away with this shit as long as people continue to support them.

The attitude of 'I'm happy, so it's all good' is exactly what got the industry to where it is - and they love you for it.

 

[Nonehxc]

You know what I'm waiting for?

Eventually, MS/Xbox will release something truly good, they can't keep fucking it up eternally, and I'm betting it may be Indiana Jones.

And all the zealots Holding the Door are gonna turn laughing mad trying to smear others with the shit they covered their faces with all these years when finally, FINALLY, Xbox gets a pure unadulterated win. And that win will erase for them all that's wrong, not that Xbox did something wrong ever in their entire history.

And they're gonna be insufferable.

Some people are just impervious to their own retardness.

 

[SaucyJack]

I, for one, couldn't be more grateful that Gamepass has been a complete and utter failure. It was destined to fail and in order for it to be successful it needed to bring in absolutely unheard number of people.

If Xbox had stronger first party development and more competent studio management, GP MIGHT have had a fighting chance. Thats a only a MIGHT.

But they let people like Phil Spencer, Bonnie Ross, Aaron Greenberg and Matt Booty stick around, while they let people like Rod Fergusson, J. Allard, and Pete Hines walk. Letting Pete Hines was one of the dumbest decisions ever made. Love him or hate him, he knows a thing about studio management and is a vet.

I was initially excited about Xbox acquiring Bethesda cuz I foolishly in that moment took it as a sign that Xbox was finally going all out and competing. Fucking stupid of me.

I quickly remembered that it was far more likely that Xbox would run these studios into the ground instead of allowing them to thrive.

Turns out I was right. I was fucking right and I hate it.

But so many Xbox fanboys decided they would rather be a whores to a piece of plastic than face the truth.

So much this.

Have been saying since the 360 generation that Microsoft 1st party was its Achilles heel - stating the obvious I know. They did pretty well in the first half of the generation with Halo/Gears/Forza/Fable complemented by a bunch of 3rd party exclusives whilst Sony was botching the PS3 launch - but they never built on that foundation and got absolutely spanked last gen.

Since making serious efforts to expand their studio system starting with Mojang in 2014 and then their 2018/19 splurge they haven't solved the problem because they've never sorted out their studio pipeline. This was unsurprising considering how they mismanaged Rare, but there are multiple studios founded/acquired in 2018 that still haven't released a game for Xbox. They've since made that issue exponentially worse by acquiring Zenimax and ABK. I just have no faith that they can actually manage the portfolio they have.

Compound all that with the well documented schizophrenia that they've shown in their Xbox/PC strategy over the years and none of what is happening is surprising at all.

 

[reinking]

okay but...

 

[tommib]

You know what I'm waiting for?

Eventually, MS/Xbox will release something truly good, they can't keep fucking it up eternally, and I'm betting it may be Indiana Jones.

And all the zealots Holding the Door are gonna turn laughing mad trying to smear the shit they've covered their faces with all these years when finally, FINALLY, Xbox gets a pure unadulterated win. And that win will erase for them all that's wrong, not that Xbox did something wrong ever in their entire history.

Some people are just impervious to their own retardness.

The only way for Indiana Jones to be a win is to release day 1 on PS5. Otherwise it’s another possible quality game engulfed by engagement metrics.

 

[diffusionx]

You know what I'm waiting for?

Eventually, MS/Xbox will release something truly good, they can't keep fucking it up eternally, and I'm betting it may be Indiana Jones.

And all the zealots Holding the Door are gonna turn laughing mad trying to smear the shit they've covered their faces with all these years when finally, FINALLY, Xbox gets a pure unadulterated win. And that win will erase for them all that's wrong, not that Xbox did something wrong ever in their entire history.

Some people are just impervious to their own retardness.

Hopefully Indiana Jones is good, I can always use a new PS5 game to play.

 

[Pedro Motta]

No. Hi Fi Rush and Tango Gameworks f***** themselves.

 

[FunkMiller]

You know what I'm waiting for?

Eventually, MS/Xbox will release something truly good, they can't keep fucking it up eternally, and I'm betting it may be Indiana Jones.

 

[demigod]

Seriously. Going to watch him next month and I'll be thinking "I can't trust a word this man says".

Time for Phil Spencer to go. Period.

Please stop advocating for this. He is Playstations Best CEO.

 

[GHG]

That's a fair critique. But honestly I don't think that's really the cause. Lots of games have gone on to succeed with little to no promotion, like Helldivers, Palworld, and Manor Lord. Hi-Fi Rush is only really going to appeal to the hardcore gamer crowd, and most of them had every opportunity to know it existed. It had a bit of a viral moment because of the shadow drop so people heard about it. They didn't promote it on PS at all, but then again they didn't promote Sea of Thieves either and look at that. I think it outsold Stella Blade on PSN which got a ton of promo stuff.

All of those games you listed had plenty of promotion at various game shows and manor lords even had a highly successful/popular demo on steam.

Manor lords:






Palworld (the trailer had 2 million views when it was revealed):





Helldivers 2 got plenty of coverage at multiple state of plays:






There's a lot more than you realise going on outside the Xbox bubble.

 

[ProtoByte]

I recall arguing with folks saying Hi Fi Rush would have done much better had it not been shadowdropped and actually had some marketing behind it. Hell, Microsoft put more money behind Redfall than they did Hi Fi Rush. If that doesn't highlight the utter cluelessness of MS Gaming leadership, I don't know what does.

Personally, I think it's just wishful thinking.
We always hear about "well they didn't market it enough", but there's 2 major problems with that.

First off, it's not like the people who say that don't know about the games. They get prime time showings at the major events that the whole gaming internet watches.

Second, more marketing = higher budget = higher break even point. How many more dollars of marketing would they have needed to spend to get more people to buy HFR? My guess is that the money they spent on the former would be larger than what they make on the latter.

Other than that Gamepass means that every game has to fight an uphill battle to justify getting bought, we need to admit that some games just aren't appealing to enough people, and that the gaming community talks a big game about wanting new stuff without putting the money behind the posts.

Pentiment and Pscyhonauts 2 fell in the same boat.

 

[Pedro Motta]

I recall arguing with folks saying Hi Fi Rush would have done much better had it not been shadowdropped and actually had some marketing behind it. Hell, Microsoft put more money behind Redfall than they did Hi Fi Rush. If that doesn't highlight the utter cluelessness of MS Gaming leadership, I don't know what does.

Remember when "shadowdrop" was the all new buzz word?

"what are they going to shadowdrop next??" "maybe it's a shadowdrop after the event!"

I guess they will now think 2 times before launching a game without marketing. So disrepectful for the devs.

 

[Little Chicken]

Remember when "shadowdrop" was the all new buzz word?

"what are they going to shadowdrop next??" "maybe it's a shadowdrop after the event!"

I guess they will now think 2 times before launching a game without marketing. So disrepectful for the devs.

And you know the devs weren't on board because...?

 

[Zheph]

Personally, I think it's just wishful thinking.
We always hear about "well they didn't market it enough", but there's 2 major problems with that.

First off, it's not like the people who say that don't know about the games. They get prime time showings at the major events that the whole gaming internet watches.

Second, more marketing = higher budget = higher break even point. How many more dollars of marketing would they have needed to spend to get more people to buy HFR? My guess is that the money they spent on the former would be larger than what they make on the latter.

Other than that Gamepass means that every game has to fight an uphill battle to justify getting bought, we need to admit that some games just aren't appealing to enough people, and that the gaming community talks a big game about wanting new stuff without putting the money behind the posts.

Pentiment and Pscyhonauts 2 fell in the same boat.

there is a gap between a shadowdrop and a bit of marketing but ultimately its not exactly a big seller genre/style especially on the platform it firstly arrived

 

[GHG]

And you know the devs weren't on board because...?

You say that as if they were given a choice.