MS shares new Xbox app mock up with a “Steam” tab

memoryman3

Neo Member
Fwiw, in a leak/rumor several months back, Sneakers indicated that the PC hybrid version would be priced at $1000 or more, intended only for an "elite" niche willing to pay that premium, and expected to sell very modest amounts during its lifetime.

I heard his rumors. A $1000 Xbox console with pulled back third party support would not even break 5 million lifetime. Even 1 million would be optimistic. As we know for certain that the silicon is custom, this would mean millions in lost R&D and a store of backwards compatible games that could actually cost Microsoft millions to run instead of turning a profit. I would disregard his rumors entirely as fan-fiction.
 
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Astray

Member
I heard his rumors. A $1000 Xbox console with pulled back third party support would not even break 5 million lifetime. Even 1 million would be optimistic. As we know for certain that the silicon is custom, this would mean millions in lost R&D and a store of backwards compatible games that could actually cost Microsoft millions to run instead of turning a profit. I would disregard his rumors entirely as fan-fiction.
Why are you assuming the silicon is custom? And why are you assuming native backcompat?

All assumptions about what this box is to offer need to be thrown out the window because this is a pivot happening in real-time and even the execs don't necessarily know where they will eventually end up.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
Unless Steam games have Xbox achievements and shared libraries, Xbox cloud streaming and other features, it's basically the same as GOG Galaxy 2.0 for Steam.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
I’m at the point i just hope microsoft will release a steambox and undercuts nvidia with their fucking bullshit.. so they can’t flip their overpriced cards anymore
 

Astray

Member
Microsoft were hiring for silicon engineers to work on the next-gen Xbox platform as recently as last month.
If they are still hiring then we really are miles away from release.

I don't think making custom silicon will turn out to be worth their while, not when they're downsizing their distribution like this.

Doing small runs with custom SKUs is a recipe for sky high component prices. This device will %100 be expensive.
 

RafterXL

Member
Either this is fully integrated Steam, which just makes this a cheap PC, or it's not integrated, which makes this window dressing and mostly useless. And even if it is integrated, it completely ignores the multitude of things that PC gaming is about more than just having games available, stuff like variable graphics and performance settings, modding, etc. I'm trying really hard, as someone who owns every Xbox console, to see what a Steamified Xbox offers either Xbox players, or PC gamers.
 

djjinx2

Member
But it's no longer a "console" in the traditional sense. These are going to be primarily PC devices, just heavily customized in the frontend & integration for console-like gaming.

Basically, they're gonna be Windows PCs with frontend/UIs heavily borrowed from Xbox OS's UI, console-like form factors and (MS would like to achieve) ease-of-use.

Isn't current gen just PC like hardware with a heavily customised frontend slapped on?

We just get marketed "consoles" as a means to a walled garden right??


Screenshot-20250321-144131-com-sec-android-app-sbrowser-SBrowser-Main-Activity.jpg
 
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Isn't current gen just PC like hardware with a heavily customised frontend slapped on?

We just get marketed "consoles" as a means to a walled garden right??

Yes, the main difference is software.

PC has an open model, you can get games from any digital store, but as the manufacturer doesn’t get that £30 cut of software sales they have to sell hardware at a profit

Consoles are a closed model, you can only get digital games via Sony or Nintendo, they take a £30 cut so can sell the hardware at a loss.
 

jwaxeman

Member
This post sums it up good:


It would be MS effectively throwing in the towel. What to watch for: will MS support their games better on other platforms vs Xbox platforms. This happened with Windows Phone/Mobile. Skype support was better on Android and iPhone after the acquisition.
Currently PS5 Pro is the best console to play a number of Xbox games on.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
I heard his rumors. A $1000 Xbox console with pulled back third party support would not even break 5 million lifetime. Even 1 million would be optimistic. As we know for certain that the silicon is custom, this would mean millions in lost R&D and a store of backwards compatible games that could actually cost Microsoft millions to run instead of turning a profit. I would disregard his rumors entirely as fan-fiction.

Sneakers has a good reputation and track record, so I give his reports some credibility. It's worth more than the armchair experts who speak with certitude. Usually that's just Dunning-Kruger.

He suggested MS expected lifetime sales of the upper-end unit to be maybe 10 m.. That seems realistic to me, although perhaps a bit of a stretch. There will be many millions of hardcore Xbox fans who will want a next-gen machine but will be unsatisfied with the compromises entailed in a handheld. They will want a full-fledged machine with strong tech. Assuming there is Steam integration, you will also have console gamers from the PS or Nintendo camps who are interested in that feature.

Any of this could change, though. The hybrid PC thing is years away, and MS is nothing if not unreliable. They are continually contradicting themselves. What was true 6 months ago may be false a year later.
 

Lillie

Member
Will be annoying to have multiples for each platform show up with different achievements and save progress
 

BlackTron

Member
Steam on Xbox hardware is a nightmare scenario for some it seems.

If you could actually play both Xbox and Steam games on the same hardware that would be pretty great, but I have a strong suspicion that anything that can run PC games will be limited to PC versions of console games as a sort of pseudo-Xbox without BC (so uh, just another PC, but this time with a redesigned Xbox launcher).
 
That don’t make sense how are they gonna get our steam library on Xbox series consoles , someone messed up😂
 
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Killer8

Member
This post sums it up good:


It would be MS effectively throwing in the towel. What to watch for: will MS support their games better on other platforms vs Xbox platforms. This happened with Windows Phone/Mobile. Skype support was better on Android and iPhone after the acquisition.

It's throwing in the towel as far as console warring goes but i'd be willing to bet that in 10 years time Microsoft will be making more money than ever from gaming.

Selling to PS5/6, Switch 2/3 and PC, with a combined userbase in the hundreds of millions, is simply better business than selling to 30 million or so Xbox only holdouts. Forza Horizon 5 is one the highest charting games on PSN right now and it's a 3 year old game. Just think how the situation will look when future games like Halo or Gears drop day-and-date as true multiplatform titles (yes, it's going to happen). A dollar from a PS user and a dollar from an Xbox or Switch user are all still a dollar to MS.

There's some concern that it's the Xbox console keeping Game Pass afloat, and so if Xbox goes belly up then MS also lose Game Pass too, but I don't think that necessarily needs to happen. MS are probably doing the wise thing by releasing another generation of hybrid hardware to try to transition more users over to the Ultimate sub for PC, which supposedly grew by 30% in Q2 FY2025.

They can also attempt to get some cut down form of Game Pass onto PlayStation, much like Ubisoft+ or EA Play. At the end of the day though, Microsoft will likely need to face reality that Game Pass is going to make up a smaller chunk of the pie than they envisioned. They already massively missed their subscriber expectations for 2025 by about 23 million:

wY397ty.jpeg


The financial bright side for Microsoft is that by selling premium hardware, they should no longer have any hardware losses to offset. They lost $200 on each $299 Series S and $100 on each Series X this gen, and unfortunately for them it was the S that outsold the X.

There is also the elephant in the room: they bought Activision. People still stupidly say this was a bad tactical move as it didn't end up benefitting Xbox in the console war. "Put COD on Game Pass exclusively", people said. Microsoft bought a money printer though - why stop the presses? Activision is a company that takes in a couple of billion dollars of revenue in a quarter. MS basically secured their long-term existence in gaming by buying them.

Microsoft do not want to be the last Japanese soldier still fighting WW2 in the jungles, they want to be living in the Japanese economic miracle once the war is over.
 

memoryman3

Neo Member
He suggested MS expected lifetime sales of the upper-end unit to be maybe 10 m

10 million would be seriously optimistic for a device that has no use for productivity and unaffordable for families and low-income gamers. I don't even think the PS5 Pro will reach that figure, lifetime, at $700
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
10 million would be seriously optimistic for a device that has no use for productivity and unaffordable for families and low-income gamers. I don't even think the PS5 Pro will reach that figure, lifetime, at $700

Yeah, it's optimistic. To clarify, the 10 m. figure was MS's thinking, as reported by Sneakers; it wasn't Sneaker's own estimate. And MS does have a habit of over-estimating potential sales, as they did with Xbox One, GP, and Xbox Series consoles.

I can see them hitting 10 m. lifetime, if the hardware was truly souped up and had good Steam integration. As I said, there are millions of hardcore Xbox fans who will want powerful next-gen hardware, and the handheld option will not satisfy them. Good Steam integration could be a selling point, too. Also, "lifetime" might be a very long time, in this case. This might be MS's last console-ish hardware.

Anyhow, it's impossible to realistically estimate sales for a product when we don't know what the product is. We'll have to wait to see what is actually on offer first.
 
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Ritsumei2020

Who did they think I was shilling for?
It's throwing in the towel as far as console warring goes but i'd be willing to bet that in 10 years time Microsoft will be making more money than ever from gaming.

Selling to PS5/6, Switch 2/3 and PC, with a combined userbase in the hundreds of millions, is simply better business than selling to 30 million or so Xbox only holdouts. Forza Horizon 5 is one the highest charting games on PSN right now and it's a 3 year old game. Just think how the situation will look when future games like Halo or Gears drop day-and-date as true multiplatform titles (yes, it's going to happen). A dollar from a PS user and a dollar from an Xbox or Switch user are all still a dollar to MS.

There's some concern that it's the Xbox console keeping Game Pass afloat, and so if Xbox goes belly up then MS also lose Game Pass too, but I don't think that necessarily needs to happen. MS are probably doing the wise thing by releasing another generation of hybrid hardware to try to transition more users over to the Ultimate sub for PC, which supposedly grew by 30% in Q2 FY2025.

They can also attempt to get some cut down form of Game Pass onto PlayStation, much like Ubisoft+ or EA Play. At the end of the day though, Microsoft will likely need to face reality that Game Pass is going to make up a smaller chunk of the pie than they envisioned. They already massively missed their subscriber expectations for 2025 by about 23 million:

wY397ty.jpeg


The financial bright side for Microsoft is that by selling premium hardware, they should no longer have any hardware losses to offset. They lost $200 on each $299 Series S and $100 on each Series X this gen, and unfortunately for them it was the S that outsold the X.

There is also the elephant in the room: they bought Activision. People still stupidly say this was a bad tactical move as it didn't end up benefitting Xbox in the console war. "Put COD on Game Pass exclusively", people said. Microsoft bought a money printer though - why stop the presses? Activision is a company that takes in a couple of billion dollars of revenue in a quarter. MS basically secured their long-term existence in gaming by buying them.

Microsoft do not want to be the last Japanese soldier still fighting WW2 in the jungles, they want to be living in the Japanese economic miracle once the war is over.

Is it true that MS is losing $200 for S and $100 for X?

It seems odd that they are losing more money on the less powerful console?
 
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Topher

Identifies as young
HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4

Not sure if this was posted in the thread. Pretty much tells you what this is.

"While the image appears to be a mockup, with owned games listed twice as well as action-adventure titles, I don’t think the Steam label here is necessarily a mistake. Sources familiar with Microsoft’s plans tell me that the company is currently working on an Xbox app update that will show every game you have installed on your PC. That includes games from Steam and the Epic Games Store, and I understand Microsoft will label these games accordingly."

 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4

Not sure if this was posted in the thread. Pretty much tells you what this is.

"While the image appears to be a mockup, with owned games listed twice as well as action-adventure titles, I don’t think the Steam label here is necessarily a mistake. Sources familiar with Microsoft’s plans tell me that the company is currently working on an Xbox app update that will show every game you have installed on your PC. That includes games from Steam and the Epic Games Store, and I understand Microsoft will label these games accordingly."

That may very well be their first move is update the PC app which it badly needs

Was trying to figure a way to word things but I will just say my position has not changed especially now
 

kevboard

Member
Colin wonders what's in it for MS.



so without watching the video... how does this not make sense?
1: they can sell a console that can claim to play PC games, which include Sony games.
2: they strengthen Windows as a gaming platform to counter the possible rise of SteamOS.
3: they possibly increase the market share of the Microsoft Store on PC by fully fusing it with the Xbox.

so it makes sense. the real question is, will it work? and that's a much bigger unknown.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Colin is just too stuck in the past. MS is thinking 3 steps ahead with this move.

He answers his own question near the end of the video after rambling about the NES for 10 min.
 
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Durin

Member
Colin thinks Steam makes no sense for MS.



He makes some valid points, but Microsoft is not sustaining it's own closed box, and the console industry is stagnating in growth like other parts of the industry.

Similar to Nintendo just combining their portable and console markets together, Microsoft needs to make a better value-add somehow, and leveraging the benefits of Windows could help.

If they can de-bloat the background resources of Windows 11, provide a working game suspend feature, price it well and have a REALLY good controller front-end UI...they could hold off SteamOS pushing people away from Windows, and then push their services front and center on the device. That requires a bunch of work to transform Windows that I question they can pull off in just the next few years.
 
so without watching the video... how does this not make sense?
1: they can sell a console that can claim to play PC games, which include Sony games.
2: they strengthen Windows as a gaming platform to counter the possible rise of SteamOS.
3: they possibly increase the market share of the Microsoft Store on PC by fully fusing it with the Xbox.

so it makes sense. the real question is, will it work? and that's a much bigger unknown.
This x a million.

Folks forget if crazy Ken did not state they could go up against msft if they included an os in PlayStation due to 100m in sales. Aka Ken K statement led to Xbox.

Gamepass = console rivals cannot have an open browser.

Msft goal is to eliminate closed storefronts aka epic vs apple. This only makes sense if msft truly only sees big tech and tencent as competitors aka t2/Ea pubs have zero chance of market domination. Thus if all Xbox devices are windows based then only min spec matter and msft reduces hardware r&d while spreading risk to OEM.

Software co is going to software. Recall folks the goal is to take your library anywhere thus hardware becomes useless in the sense of console cycles. They were right on console costs the question is what do they see for pc costs?
 

Fess

Member
so without watching the video... how does this not make sense?
1: they can sell a console that can claim to play PC games, which include Sony games.
2: they strengthen Windows as a gaming platform to counter the possible rise of SteamOS.
3: they possibly increase the market share of the Microsoft Store on PC by fully fusing it with the Xbox.

so it makes sense. the real question is, will it work? and that's a much bigger unknown.
3. Will that ever happen with Steam right there on the UI if all the games are on Steam?

Why would people buy the games on Microsoft Store over Steam? There needs to be some upside to it.


I think they would need to start doing Microsoft Store exclusivity, timed exclusivity, like Sony do it on PS.
But they’ve already tried that, didn’t work.


In the end I’m thinking it’ll be exactly like it already is on regular PCs. People buy games on Steam and at best use the Xbox App to browse and install Gamepass games.
And that’s it.

Gamepass Ultimate would be pointless too, the console+PC Ultimate combo bonus wouldn’t make any sense if there is no traditional console. So 99% would swap to the cheaper PC Gamepass.
And third party games and dlc purchases wouldn’t earn Microsoft any money if it’s done on Steam.


Idk, the money flow equation just doesn’t add up.

As a consumer I would like it though. Having Steam, Epic, Gamepass on the same UI is a great thing. You can add games from other launchers to Steam but they go under a separate non-Steam menu and don’t show playtime or achievements or art.
 
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Colin is just too stuck in the past. MS is thinking 3 steps ahead with this move.

He answers his own question near the end of the video after rambling about the NES for 10 min.

I don’t think they are doing anything but giving a chance for thier current base to stay in the ecosystem.

It’s not going to change their hardware numbers and it does pose a real threat to their store. I remember during the Dreamcast everyone was pirating games in my school. One kid was selling them for $5-$10 a game.

it’s possible the Xbox community start spreading word on installing steam and saving money or switch to pc gamepass to save money further hurting thier store sales. Imagine if Epic starts advertising installing their store to play Fortnite instead of using the Xbox store?
 

kevboard

Member
3. Will that ever happen with Steam right there on the UI if all the games are on Steam?

Why would people buy the games on Microsoft Store over Steam? There needs to be some upside to it.

well, Microsoft Store games can be specialised console versions when played on Xbox. so no PC nonsense.
but also crossbuy so that on a normal PC you still can download a normal PC version with full cross compatibility.

also if it is the default store on the system and is the optimised way to play games, people will buy from there and build up a library. once someone is accustomed to an ecosystem they are more likely to stay in it.

I think they would need to start doing Microsoft Store exclusivity, timed exclusivity, like Sony do it on PS.
But they’ve already tried that, didn’t work.

yeah, that won't work no. but slowly getting people used to buying from their store by fully combining console and PC libraries could work.
especially if their plans for their big picture mode, which they are clearly planning to accommodate PC handhelds, also prominently features this storefront by default and has good integration with games installed from their store (friends list, achievemnts etc.)

see it like a Trojan horse. slowly getting people used to it.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Imagine if Epic starts advertising installing their store to play Fortnite instead of using the Xbox store?
I think that's the eventual end goal for everyone now but Sony and Nintendo. If over the next 10 years consoles keep losing a grip on their ability to enforce a closed ecosystem, then every one of the top mega publishers would be encentivized to have their own store. Why keep giving 30% to Steam, Epic, Sony or anyone? Smaller publishers and indies would because its easier. Everyone else could just run their own tab in the multi-store. Turns out MS is now the biggest 3rd party publisher so they'd take that. Epic can take their 1 game. Sony only puts out maybe 2 or 3 games a year so they don't really have the scale to match that but they will have their own store too. Huge brand loyalty and tons of people with libraries already built. All the stores will just be apps on a TV, and integrated into multi-stores on streamlined PCs with multiple tabs like the mockup. Multiple stores can compete on price instead of locking everyone else out.

Nothing will really change except 3rd parties will keep more of their own money. Sony and Nintendo will have to shrink a tiny bit to adjust to that loss. Nintendo will explode in popularity on all devices and they make many AA games so they will come out ahead. Sony is barely making margins even with all the 30% cuts they take from everyone so they will have to radically adjust their business. MS is mostly going to be the exact same and has already transitioned and has GP.
 
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If they can de-bloat the background resources of Windows 11, provide a working game suspend feature, price it well and have a REALLY good controller front-end UI...they could hold off SteamOS pushing people away from Windows, and then push their services front and center on the device. That requires a bunch of work to transform Windows that I question they can pull off in just the next few years.
Whatever they end up doing, version 1.0 will not release as the best version of it, but it will at least be a start.

And a start is all people are asking for.
 

Fess

Member
well, Microsoft Store games can be specialised console versions when played on Xbox. so no PC nonsense.
I don’t see the selling point then. Needing specialized versions would imply that regular Steam versions won’t run well. Then what’s the point? Only a tiny fraction of games would get that treatment. It needs to be a normal Windows device, but in a console case.
 

Dorfdad

Gold Member
I’m at the point i just hope microsoft will release a steambox and undercuts nvidia with their fucking bullshit.. so they can’t flip their overpriced cards anymore
The reason nvidia is expensive is because no one comes close to top end performance for gaming sadly. Also it’s not all about brute strength as others could do that, but it’s the tools, drivers, and support for platforms and partnerships. No AAA studio is building games api’s etc around Intel gpus.
 

bender

What time is it?
so without watching the video... how does this not make sense?
1: they can sell a console that can claim to play PC games, which include Sony games.
2: they strengthen Windows as a gaming platform to counter the possible rise of SteamOS.
3: they possibly increase the market share of the Microsoft Store on PC by fully fusing it with the Xbox.

so it makes sense. the real question is, will it work? and that's a much bigger unknown.

#1 is the problem. Microsoft can try to sell anything but you need people to actually buy it.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
so without watching the video... how does this not make sense?
1: they can sell a console that can claim to play PC games, which include Sony games.

But those games are ones they'd normally sell on the Windows store and make 30% on. Now they won't make a dime on them (if they go through Steam).
 
Colin is just too stuck in the past. MS is thinking 3 steps ahead with this move.

He answers his own question near the end of the video after rambling about the NES for 10 min.
you can't look at the future without looking at the past. this is the main reason why Xbox people suck at "predicting" the future.
 
A dollar from a PS user and a dollar from an Xbox or Switch user are all still a dollar to MS.
MS only gets .70$ on these dollars gamers spend on the other platforms.

Your point about the user base still stands, at some point big budget titles will not make that much profit if the user base is not high enough, especially after they trained them not to buy their games to play on GP.
Microsoft do not want to be the last Japanese soldier still fighting WW2 in the jungles, they want to be living in the Japanese economic miracle once the war is over.
There is a war because running a succesful platform (be it a games console, a phone OS, etc.) with an online store where you get roughly 30% of every transactions made on it is very good business — but you need scale if you want to absorb a company like Activision, or you have to expect their output to sell SH!T TON OF CONSOLES so you offset the purchase with sales of their software on your platform, and other software that gets sold because the user base grows. MS as a whole obviously does not believe this, because they would have made the Activision stuff exclusive, at least for a year or tow.

Imagine, the CoD bros having to buy xboxes (that was the wet dream of the fanbase).

There might be a world where that worked out and made xbox relevant in gaming, but that does not seem to be the case now.
 

jm89

Member
Colin thinks Steam makes no sense for MS.


Some good points he raises.

Losing Xbox customers to steam will be hilarious, the most idiotic self destructive move since the Xbox one launch.

Promoting a much more popular platform that could cannibalise your sales is the 4d chess I expect from Phil.
 
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