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[Starchasing]

Go ahead and write-off diminishing returns all you like, but the fact of the matter is that once you hit the threshold of "good enough", most people won't bother upgrading without significant new features, or significantly cheaper cost.

thats very easy to see when you look at the VHS transition to DVD... people assume dvd was popular because it looked better. That is not what happened. Some people say dvd was popular because it had no competition, but they forget DIVX...

DVD was better than VHS in many many things... BR is just a DVD with better image.

A better image that most people dont even care

 

[Pureauthor]

I honestly think if there would have been no Wii the PS3 wouldn't have sold faster, it would mostly help GameCube and PS2 sales. For the long run I think the Wii may even be an advantage for the PS3's long term perspective as the console intoduces many new people to gaming.

You're contradicting yourself. If the Wii has the incentives in it to draw new people to gaming, then these new people wouldn't have bought a PS2 or a Gamecube regardless. The lack of Wii would thus not have affected PS2/GCN sales a whit.

 

[MikeB]

You're contradicting yourself. If the Wii has the incentives in it to draw new people to gaming, then these new people wouldn't have bought a PS2 or a Gamecube regardless. The lack of Wii would thus not have affected PS2/GCN sales a whit.

Not really, some compatible statements:

- Wii introducing many new people to gaming (I'm not saying all Wii users are new gamers, certainly many Nintendo fans bought a Wii considering Mario Galaxy and Zelda, Paper Mario, Smash Bros, Metroid Prime sequels are available)
- Having no Wii would benefit PS2/GameCube sales more => GameCube not discontinued, PS2 no real competition for the low end market
- Not competing much with PS3 at this point, due to pricing, due to totally different bestsellers, very different featureset, form factor and specs.
- Benefits PS3 for the long run => middle aged people who didn't play games before, wants a Blu-Ray player in 2010, prefers PS3 as it has many good games available as well.

Just some examples of how my statemtent doesn't have to contradict.

 

[Pureauthor]

Not really, some compatible statements:

- Wii introducing many new people to gaming (I'm not saying all Wii users are new gamers, certainly many Nintendo fans bought a Wii considering Mario Galaxy and Zelda, Paper Mario, Smash Bros, Metroid Prime sequels are available)
- Having no Wii would benefit PS2/GameCube sales more => GameCube not discontinued, PS2 no competition for the low end market

Concerning the Gamecube, this works only under the ridiculous assumption that if there had been no Wii, Nintendo would simply sit back and ignore the 7th generation of consoles. The Gamecube was a dead a system for a while, regardless - it was in Nintendo's best interests to remove it as quickly as possile.
The PS2 already does not have any competition for the 'low-end' market. The people currently buying Wiis and the people currently buying PS2s have very little intersection.

- Not competing much with PS3 at this point, due to pricing, due to totally different bestsellers, very different featureset and specs.

Yet selling to the same market?

- Benefits PS3 for the long run => middle aged people who didn't play games before, wants a Blu-Ray player in 2010, prefers PS3 as it has many good games available as well.

You assume that these middle-aged people would give a fig for the games the PS3 offers. And if that's the case, why didn't they buy a PS2, which basically has everything the PS3 does?

 

[MoogPaul]

So after reading the entire original post, I believe this topic name should be called: Playstation 3, or How I Learned To Stop Fearing Nintendo.

No where is the mention of the upcoming Grand Theft Auto Wars. This thread reaks of fanboyism.

 

[Xyphie]

I am not the only one who believes this...

 

[MikeB]

Yet selling to the same market?

Not really targetting the same kind of audience at this point, this will change in the future with Slimline products and such. Wii owners who like Playstation style gaming or multifunctionality can buy a PS3 next to owning a Wii.

You assume that these middle-aged people would give a fig for the games the PS3 offers. And if that's the case, why didn't they buy a PS2, which basically has everything the PS3 does?

Many people think games are too complex for them, they may start with Wii Sports and eventually move onto more complex games like Mario Galaxy => They may not think games are that hard anymore. Wii warming more people up for gaming is IMO an advantage for the game industry in general.

 

[Starchasing]

- Benefits PS3 for the long run => middle aged people who didn't play games before, wants a Blu-Ray player in 2010, prefers PS3 as it has many good games available as well

Sorry pal... New gamers are buying Wii because it is not like the PS2 or PS3.

Even thou they are gaming machines they have been designed very differently. People love Wii for reasons that the PS3 can not offer. Thats why what you say wont happen. This new gamers will keep playing on the machine they like, and if they want a BR player they will buy a stand alone one.

Wii warming more people up for gaming is IMO an advantage for the game industry in general.

people seduced by Wii are more likely to buy videgames but only if they follow the same philosophy. They would buy a Nintendo DS but rarely a PS3. Why?

Because they entered the market after this new philosophy appeared. PS3 follows the same philosophy of PS1 and PS2 which they didnt like.

 

[kiUNiT]

There were a few tests recently (Cnet?) that proved DVDs up-scaled looked better than 360 market place HD movies. Just watch a DVD on your PS3/360 (I recommend the PS3) and you have cheap as chips movies at even better quality than the online HD stuff.

It's the best upscaller I've ever used, Just watched the devils rejects and FromHell last night. Awesome visual experience although very greusome.

 

[kiUNiT]

Sorry pal... New gamers are buying Wii because it is not like the PS2 or PS3.

Even thou they are gaming machines they have been designed very differently. People love Wii for reasons that the PS3 can not offer. Thats why what you say wont happen. This new gamers will keep playing on the machine they like, and if they want a BR player they will buy a stand alone one.

I diasagree many people old and young are buying the PS3 as a Bluray player. It's what I and most bigbox sales people I've seen suggest.

 

[Starchasing]

I diasagree many people old and young are buying the PS3 as a Bluray player. It's what I and most bigbox sales people I've seen suggest.

He and I were talking about the future not right now, when cheaper BR exist

 

[gtj1092]

Sorry pal... New gamers are buying Wii because it is not like the PS2 or PS3.

Even thou they are gaming machines they have been designed very differently. People love Wii for reasons that the PS3 can not offer. Thats why what you say wont happen. This new gamers will keep playing on the machine they like, and if they want a BR player they will buy a stand alone one.

So you dont think these customer are going to want to play different games and have new experiences. Im not saying they are gonna buy a Ps360 or what not but even on the Wii I got to believe they are gonna want to try other styles of games. If this is what you believe then thats not a good thing for Wii only gamers who started playing games b4 wii sports, or for big game third party publishers.

 

[PantherLotus]

:lol :lol

 

[Starchasing]

So you dont think these customer are going to want to play different games and have new experiences. Im not saying they are gonna buy a Ps360 or what not but even on the Wii I got to believe they are gonna want to try other styles of games. If this is what you believe then thats not a good thing for Wii only gamers who started playing games b4 wii sports, or for big game third party publishers.

What im saying is that new gamers are atracted to wii and ds for reasons that other consoles cant replicate.

 

[StevieP]

So you dont think these customer are going to want to play different games and have new experiences. Im not saying they are gonna buy a Ps360 or what not but even on the Wii I got to believe they are gonna want to try other styles of games. If this is what you believe then thats not a good thing for Wii only gamers who started playing games b4 wii sports, or for big game third party publishers.

You know, the Wii has these different styles of games as well. As good as No More Heroes is, though, the people that bought the system for Wii Sports (and invested in accessories and controllers) are far more likely to buy Smarty Pants or Guitar Hero, or even Mario, and not another $300-500 system with its own set of accessories and controllers. Go look at NPD and Media Create for more.

 

[acm2000]

i was gonna read this untill i saw who the OP was :lol

 

[MikeB]

What im saying is that new gamers are atracted to wii and ds for reasons that other consoles cant replicate.

Like what experience wouldn't be possible to replicate on the PS3? You mean Wii-mote, right? First of all you can download a Wii-mote driver for the PS3 under Linux, thus a similar controller is technically possible on the PS3. Some devs see more potential in motion capture however:

"Tim Sweeney, CEO of Epic Games and the man behind the Unreal, talked about the future of gaming in an interview and the subject of the Wii controls came up.

Speaking to TG Daily, he explained that the there needs to be a determination made between what is a fundamental change in gaming, and what is a gimmick. Sadly, he thinks that the Wiimote falls into the latter category.

"I still think that motion controllers, such as the Wii controller, have a limited purpose, sort of a gimmicky thing," he said.

"Standing there and holding a bunch of devices and moving them around wildly is great for party games, but I don't think that will fundamentally change the way people interact with computers," Sweeney opined.

He's more of a believer in the PS3 Eye school of motion sensing than having to hold a physical object or two.

"To me, it's more compelling to just use free-form movement and have computers recognize your gestures," he added."

http://www.nintendorevolution.ca/03132008/22/sweeney_dismisses_nintendo_wii_controls_as_gimmicky

 

[PantherLotus]

You still haven't answered how you can possibly ignore the current worldwide market leader. You're masquerading and equivocating this fanboyish jerkoff of minimized expecations into something that it could never possibly be: a reasonable, well-thought out analysis. It's really, really silly and does more harm than good.

The PS3 is an excellent console with fuck-awesome games but it sure as hell doesn't need your joke of an "analysis" to help. Take a class or something. You bring shame on sales-age. (and we don't need help doing that either)

 

[Narag]

Like what experience wouldn't be possible to replicate on the PS3? You mean Wii-mote, right? First of all you can download a Wii-mote driver for the PS3 under Linux, thus a similar controller is technically possible on the PS3. Some devs see more potential in motion capture however:

"Tim Sweeney, CEO of Epic Games and the man behind the Unreal, talked about the future of gaming in an interview and the subject of the Wii controls came up.

Speaking to TG Daily, he explained that the there needs to be a determination made between what is a fundamental change in gaming, and what is a gimmick. Sadly, he thinks that the Wiimote falls into the latter category.

"I still think that motion controllers, such as the Wii controller, have a limited purpose, sort of a gimmicky thing," he said.

"Standing there and holding a bunch of devices and moving them around wildly is great for party games, but I don't think that will fundamentally change the way people interact with computers," Sweeney opined.

He's more of a believer in the PS3 Eye school of motion sensing than having to hold a physical object or two.

"To me, it's more compelling to just use free-form movement and have computers recognize your gestures," he added."

http://www.nintendorevolution.ca/03132008/22/sweeney_dismisses_nintendo_wii_controls_as_gimmicky

Stuff like this is always gimmicky until a proper app comes along to push the issue. It very well could be tech similar to what is demonstrated with the PS3 Eye but we're not far along enough to say definitely one way or the other.

Who the hell thought people would be owning little toy guitars, let alone multiple versions, to play games?

You still haven't answered how you can possibly ignore the current worldwide market leader. You're masquerading and equivocating this fanboyish jerkoff of minimized expecations into something that it could never possibly be: a reasonable, well-thought out analysis. It's really, really silly and does more harm than good.

The PS3 is an excellent console with fuck-awesome games but it sure as hell doesn't need your joke of an "analysis" to help. Take a class or something. You bring shame on sales-age. (and we don't need help doing that either)

Ultimately its convenience and developing the analysis to fit the desired outcome. I know people bring up car/tv/audio markets when it comes to this but in those you're not limited to 6 total options through the entire combined market.

 

[PantherLotus]

Ultimately its convenience and developing the analysis to fit the desired outcome.

Clearly -- but I already arrived at that conclusion. I was hoping he would do it on his own.

 

[MikeB]

You still haven't answered how you can possibly ignore the current worldwide market leader. You're masquerading and equivocating this fanboyish jerkoff of minimized expecations into something that it could never possibly be: a reasonable, well-thought out analysis. It's really, really silly and does more harm than good.

The PS3 is an excellent console with fuck-awesome games but it sure as hell doesn't need your joke of an "analysis" to help. Take a class or something. You bring shame on sales-age. (and we don't need help doing that either)

The Wii isn't of much relevance with regard to the type of functionality the PS3 and 360 are pushing. The PS3/360 have far more overlap in terms of features as well as games. I don't see a need for adding the Nintendo DS into this high definition console analysis neither, IMO the NDS doesn't really directly compete with the PS3, IMO a touchscreen PDA would compete more with the NDS than the PS3 does.

Think about it like this, bicycles don't compete than much with a specific type of car as another quite similar car would compete. It's not uncommon to own both a bike and a car.

 

[kiUNiT]

Like what experience wouldn't be possible to replicate on the PS3? You mean Wii-mote, right? First of all you can download a Wii-mote driver for the PS3 under Linux, thus a similar controller is technically possible on the PS3. Some devs see more potential in motion capture however:

"Tim Sweeney, CEO of Epic Games and the man behind the Unreal, talked about the future of gaming in an interview and the subject of the Wii controls came up.

Speaking to TG Daily, he explained that the there needs to be a determination made between what is a fundamental change in gaming, and what is a gimmick. Sadly, he thinks that the Wiimote falls into the latter category.

"I still think that motion controllers, such as the Wii controller, have a limited purpose, sort of a gimmicky thing," he said.

"Standing there and holding a bunch of devices and moving them around wildly is great for party games, but I don't think that will fundamentally change the way people interact with computers," Sweeney opined.

He's more of a believer in the PS3 Eye school of motion sensing than having to hold a physical object or two.

"To me, it's more compelling to just use free-form movement and have computers recognize your gestures," he added."

http://www.nintendorevolution.ca/03132008/22/sweeney_dismisses_nintendo_wii_controls_as_gimmicky

Thats Bullshit, you would rather waive your empty hands in the air than have a remote to do it with. How do you shoot, stafe left crouch or feel the awesome Wiimote rumble. Don't try and say you pull an imaginary trigger then physically jump left and duck wih the same results on screen.
I m sorry but the wiimote is an exellent controller that is not going to be replaced by an eyetoy. The wimote is the main reason for the wiis great sales, my parents in their 50s bought one because all you have to do is point and push a button , it's as easy as watching tv.

 

[Narag]

Think about it like this, bicycles don't compete than much with a specific type of car as another quite similar car would compete. It's not uncommon to own both a bike and a car.

:lol

 

[J-Rzez]

DVD was better than VHS in many many things... BR is just a DVD with better image.

A better image that most people dont even care

Actually, BR is a DVD with a better image, better sound, and better durability.

And don't downplay the increasing interest of better image to people. My friend is an electronics manager for a store nearby me in backwardscity, and even he says more people are interested in HD, and how to get the most out of their newest investment. All ages of people at that. And many more now especially are interested in Blu-Ray.

 

[Narag]

Actually, BR is a DVD with a better image, better sound, and better durability.

That's the most appealing thing for me in regards to BR. Ugh, I hate how fragile CDs and DVDs are.

 

[ymmv]

Actually, BR is a DVD with a better image, better sound, and better durability.

And don't downplay the increasing interest of better image to people. My friend is an electronics manager for a store nearby me in backwardscity, and even he says more people are interested in HD, and how to get the most out of their newest investment. All ages of people at that. And many more now especially are interested in Blu-Ray.

I think this is especially the case in Europe where HDTVs have become very popular yet HDTV content is scarce. The biggest selling point for HDTVs is undoubtedly their size. A substantial portion of HDTV buyers will only watch SD content on their brandnew and expensive 1080p plasma, but that still leaves a substantial percentage of new HDTV owners who want to put their new TV through its paces with a Blu-Ray player. What's better than a PS3 that can also double as an HD games console and HTPC?

 

[Starchasing]

Actually, BR is a DVD with a better image, better sound, and better durability.

And don't downplay the increasing interest of better image to people. My friend is an electronics manager for a store nearby me in backwardscity, and even he says more people are interested in HD, and how to get the most out of their newest investment. All ages of people at that. And many more now especially are interested in Blu-Ray.

CD in theory sounds better than MP3, yet people are buying more and more MP3 players...

Once you figure why you will understand why BR will become irrelevant sooner than later.

 

[John_Doe]

@mikeb

"We've now got about two million PSN registrations. That's about 40 per cent of users.”


It means 40% of PSN users are from europe, not 5 million of PS3 owners in europe

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Just wait for GTA4/GT5P/MGS4/360 pricedrop/PS3 possible pricedrop to see how the market will go from june to october

By now PS3 is selling clearly better than 360. Far better in Europe and Japan and slightly better in the states

 

[PantherLotus]

Think about it like this, bicycles don't compete than much with a specific type of car as another quite similar car would compete. It's not uncommon to own both a bike and a car.

If bicycles were cutting into auto sales, this might be a less retarded comparison. If Goodyear made tires for bicycles, this would be less ridiculous. If Alpine made head-units for bicycles, this would be less absurd.

But your "analysis" would still be.

 

[J-Rzez]

CD in theory sounds better than MP3, yet people are buying more and more MP3 players...

Once you figure why you will understand why BR will become irrelevant sooner than later.

Cause it's easier to fit an MP3 player in your pocket while running, working out, waiting on public transit than having a lunky CD player which can skip?

MP3 players =/= Home Theater. And, oddly enough, there's more MP3 players surfacing with "Uncompressed Audio" as a bulletpoint now than ever though.

This is so not true about people wanting a "good enough" experience, it's convenience issue with MP3 players, which doesn't tie into a home theater experience.

 

[Pureauthor]

And, oddly enough, there's more MP3 players surfacing with "Uncompressed Audio" as a bulletpoint now than ever though.

I'm not sure how this proves anything. Conveniences rules uber alles, but most people would happily accept quality if convenience needn't be sacrificed.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Actually, BR is a DVD with a better image, better sound, and better durability.

And don't downplay the increasing interest of better image to people. My friend is an electronics manager for a store nearby me in backwardscity, and even he says more people are interested in HD, and how to get the most out of their newest investment. All ages of people at that. And many more now especially are interested in Blu-Ray.

People want gaudy, expensive shit to impress their friends with. They want big speakers that sound big and big tvs that look big. Increasing resolution is not only meaningless, but counter-productive.

 

[DevilWillcry]

The responses in this thread, serve as a nice summary for why I hate the internet. Bicker bicker bicker!

 

[donny2112]

@mikeb

"We've now got about two million PSN registrations. That's about 40 per cent of users.”


It means 40% of PSN users are from europe, not 5 million of PS3 owners in europe

That would indicate ~200K PSN users outside of the U.S. (SCEA territories?) and Europe (SCEE territories?).

 

[ComputerNerd]

This will probably be the PS2's last significant year on the market in western countries, the platform will probably still sell well for many years in regions and countries like South America and India after 2008, but worldwide is expected to drop sharply in significance next year.

The Nintendo Wii is expected to have a shorter lifecycle as demand and supply of HD content is growing rapidly. There is near to no overlap in game titles with regard to best selling games amongst the Wii and PS3 games, only Guitar Hero 3 is in the top 20 for both platforms. In terms of features and specs there are great differences as well, so they are two very different platform offerings. Personally I would say the Wii competes more with the PS2 at this point (despite martket saturation for the PS2, the PS2 is cheaper though and has a larger backlog of titles) than with the PS3.

Here's a hint. #1 consoles never have the shortest life cycles.

 

[MikeB]

If bicycles were cutting into auto sales, this might be a less retarded comparison. If Goodyear made tires for bicycles, this would be less ridiculous. If Alpine made head-units for bicycles, this would be less absurd.

Some roads are only suitable for either cars or bicycles. Biking can be a lot of fun with your family, especially with sunny weather, for some things bicycles can't keep up with cars, but there are advantages as well. It's certainly a different experience.

 

[PantherLotus]

^ oh come off it already. How I can get banned for suggesting that the Wii is a 3rd party that sells consoles and you aren't banned for this trash is beyond me. Good god.

Here's a hint. #1 consoles never have the shortest life cycles.

that would only matter in a quality analysis.

 

[MikeB]

That would indicate ~200K PSN users outside of the U.S. (SCEA territories?) and Europe (SCEE territories?).

Sony claims 3.3 million PSN users for North America, that would be the bulk of PS3 users according to Microsoft's NPD figures. The 2 million comment regards SCEE only, probably many Europeans set up a US account, some demos appear ealier there.

 

[donny2112]

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2008/03/best_of_gdc_making_games_for_p.php

2.8 million was quoted at GDC. It is unclear exactly what region that refers to, though Kotaku claimed it was for the U.S.

 

[Starchasing]

it's convenience issue with MP3 players, which doesn't tie into a home theater experience.

You got the first part, but i see you fail to see at home. Think harder. Think why would people want to get rid of physical disks...

hint number one... kids

 

[MikeB]

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2008/03/best_of_gdc_making_games_for_p.php

2.8 million was quoted at GDC. It is unclear exactly what region that refers to, though Kotaku claimed it was for the U.S.

BTW, the 3.3 million PSN figure for North America mentioned earlier originates from SCEA:
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/sony-on-february-npd-playstation-is-1/?biz=1

 

[J-Rzez]

You got the first part, but i see you fail to see at home. Think harder. Think why would people want to get rid of physical disks...

hint number one... kids

Naw, I don't fail to see anything. So what if it's digital? You want kids to mess around with any tech piece? No. BTW, Blu-Ray discs are nasty, you have to purposely try to scratch them in order to damage them. We're talking steel wool and stuff.

 

[Chrange]

I don't think that's per see the case. I think PS2 owners looking for a HD console upgrade will look at the type of games which can be expected, the most popular PS2 games will see more or less confirmed exclusive sequels on the PS3 including Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Jak & Daxter, God of War and Getaway.

I think this weighs stronger for most than an alledged superior 360 version. Reports however suggest the PS3 will have slighty improved graphics:

"Take-Two also said that both the 360 and PS3 version of the game be visually almost identical, with the PS3 coming out slightly on top in some areas. "

http://www.palgn.com.au/article.php...68291c79&title=Rockstar+sequel+coming+in+2009

Some say the "exclusive bonus episodes" makes the 360 more preferable. But something you have to pay for I wouldn't call a bonus, maybe a bonus to Microsoft's future profits. Many 360 users haven't even set up a free silver account yet for downloading demos and such, so it's anyone's quess how many people will actually buy this. DLC will be available for both platforms, only some additional episodes you have to pay for are exclusive. Personally I haven't even played through San Andreas yet.

There are also plenty of additional arguments which can be made for getting the PS3 version over a 360 version, including with regard to free online play, hardware reliability, disc scratching, drive noise and maybe even like this report suggests better graphics. Who knows, maybe GTA IV will offer nice PS Home specific additions and extras in the future as well.

Anyway GTA III despite improved graphics and extra content on the XBox didn't really sell that well. But now it's a simultaneous release and the entry price for the 360 is cheaper, in any case it will be interesting to follow. Microsoft will surely continue to hype up this future episodic content nobody even has a glimpse of information about.

Wow, how could I ever have suggested that there might be bias there.

By the way, the link you posted says Take-Two reports better PS3 graphics however their source link, from Gamasutra, has no such comment at all.

 

[MikeB]

Wow, how could I ever have suggested that there might be bias there.

By the way, the link you posted says Take-Two reports better PS3 graphics however their source link, from Gamasutra, has no such comment at all.

IGN in a hands-on stated PS3 version of GTAIV has less aliasing issues. So there may well be slight visual edge. Anyway I think the points I brought forward are solid ones and are sufficient enough to counter the 360 fans who are spreading the Microsoft gospel.

An additional point. Rockstar is also working on future PS3 exclusives, so for fans of Rockstar games that's also something to take into consideration when buying a 360 or PS3 for this game. Really there are so many arguments to be made.

 

[fortified_concept]

Oh, I read it.

It's a lot of work mystifyingly done when you consider how slanted the article is. Reams of data about how well the PS3 is doing and only concrete data about how the 360 is doing poorly, along with vague assessments of their current initiatives, like XBLVM, "probably not doing that great". That somehow Blu-Ray is definitively on the rise and yet simultaneously there hasn't been any evidence of Downloads gaining any traction. (AppleTV? Okay, but how about iTMS?)

But as a summary paragraph, this just about says it all:



It seems like the primary basis for 360 arguments is the "Early Shitcanning Of The Xbox" approach, which discounts the impact of games like Gears Of War 2 and new franchises that are either exclusive to the console or got their initial primary userbase there (Mass Effect, Rock Band, et al).

It seemed like a slanted look at the current landscape, but I'm sure there will be people who disagree.

I didn't see GOW1 or ME doing anything spectacular for X360 in Europe and Japan and I doubt GOW2 will save it from its dissapointing fate in those regions. You could use that argument for NA but not the rest of the world. And let's not forget that PS3's lineup this year is superior in both quality and quantity.

 

[pswii60]

I didn't see GOW1 or ME doing anything spectacular for X360 in Europe and Japan and I doubt GOW2 will save it from its dissapointing fate in those regions. You could use that argument for NA but not the rest of the world. And let's not forget that PS3's lineup this year is superior in both quality and quantity.

I love how people state this as fact. Especially when we haven't played through the final versions of any of the upcoming games on either platform, and we still don't know their full 2008 line-ups either.

Sure PS3 could have the superior games this year, but it also very well might not. Time will tell, but you can't state it as a fact either way. Too Human might be the second coming for all we know, same with Banjo Kazooie. Gears 2 might be deadful. Or maybe LittleBigPlanet and Infamous will actually be the best things since sliced bread. But MGS4 will be a big let-down. We just don't know.

EDIT: My point is, Bioshock wasn't even factored in to 360's "great 2007 line-up" last year, until the reviews started pouring in and word of mouth started spreading. New IPs have the potential to be every bit as big as the returning franchises. After all, they were new IPs once, too.

 

[Starchasing]

Naw, I don't fail to see anything. So what if it's digital? You want kids to mess around with any tech piece? No. BTW, Blu-Ray discs are nasty, you have to purposely try to scratch them in order to damage them. We're talking steel wool and stuff.

You have to get out of your tastes and try to think as a parent

 

[John_Doe]

not speaking about games being better, only about big names

 

[Son of Godzilla]

not speaking about games being better, only about big names

Ya, that KZ brand sure is huge.

Don't be preposterous. And saying that GeOW2 will save the system from a disappointing fate in NA isn't an argument, it's an absurdity.

 

[pswii60]

not speaking about games being better, only about big names

No, he said superior in quality, which is definitely an unknown quantity at this time.

Ya, that KZ brand sure is huge.

Don't be preposterous. And saying that GeOW2 will save the system from a disappointing fate in NA isn't an argument, it's an absurdity.

No one game will save any system from a disappointing fate in any territory.

Spoiler

With the sole exception of Wii Sports, that is.