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Newborn Baby-GAF: Sleepless Nights Deluxe HD Remix

One of my friends kids has severe separation anxiety caused by an illness which meant his mother spent a good few weeks having to comfort him constantly.

Having witnessed the hell she his going through I want to avoid that at all costs.
Well, an illness is an illness; it alters normal behavior. And I gather that the child was never calm unless the mother was in direct contact with him. While attachment parenting encourages frequent physical contact, that's not the case. It actually results, at least for us, in a relaxed, at ease baby.

Again I'm stressing, each set of parents and child have to do what's right for them. Not everything is for everyone.
 

mrkgoo

Member
Well, an illness is an illness; it alters normal behavior. And I gather that the child was never calm unless the mother was in direct contact with him. While attachment parenting encourages frequent physical contact, that's not the case. It actually results, at least for us, in a relaxed, at ease baby.

Again I'm stressing, each set of parents and child have to do what's right for them. Not everything is for everyone.

Every parent is entitled to raise their child as they see best. It's totally frustrating to want to do something for your child and have others look down their nose at you.

Our opinion is that habits start now, so having our idea of good ones will be hopefully more beneficial down the road. One that doesn't rely on us entirely for attention or comfort is something we'd like to encourage, which doesn't mean letting her cry, but rather considering when she needs the comfort and when she is just grizzly.

The 'let her cry' to sleep side of things (it wasn't that simple, it was a proper routine we established and a lot of hard work) only lasted one week, in regards to establishing a sleep routine.

Now she occasionally wakes, and can cry for a few minutes, but then settles herself. The key point for us was that she actually wants to be asleep, and the crying is just a discomfort thing, not a 'I need something' thing.

In the end, no-one can predict what will happen, and it's hard to say even that what we do has any real effect. After all, most of the things we try is an n=1 situation (just a single data point), so no real conclusions can ever be drawn most of the time, since every child and situation is different.
 
In the end, no-one can predict what will happen, and it's hard to say even that what we do has any real effect. After all, most of the things we try is an n=1 situation (just a single data point), so no real conclusions can ever be drawn most of the time, since every child and situation is different.
Yeah, I really hope that when Fitbits, et al get more advanced, and turn into skin implants or whatever, human kind will have some long term, data-driven info on how certain experiences affect children's development.
 
Time to wake up this thread. I guess this is fitting given my username. Anyway, 10 weeks!

mooglebaby.jpg
 
I meant to get back to this thread earlier, but today was the due date and nothing. So I figure with the time, I'd at least respond to some of the good advice given.

You're expecting a second? Wow, congrats!

Thanks!

Congratulations!

We have two 16 months apart, it's fun. The only advice I can think of is to make sure that you have a good, safe place to put the older one while you deal with the baby (we had a super play yard set up in one corner of the living room)

Thanks! That's a good idea. We mostly let her roam free, but having a place to contain/occupy her temporarily sounds like a smart idea.

Two is chump change, try three. :p The biggest thing we've done with our four year old was do things with him without the twins. Even if its as simple as taking him to the store, he gets some personal time without the twins and it doesn't feel like we are ignoring him. We also make our son involved. We let him play with the babies and he helps us with feedings and changes. Stress the big brother/sister aspect too. Our son loves the idea of being the big brother, it makes him feel apart of this whole thing. It will be stressful and you will be tired but don't let it get in the way of your relationship with your oldest child.

Finally, have fun with it try not to get too stressed out. In a few months the newborn will be old enough to make things easier and you'll get back into the rhythm of raising an infant.

Good tip with trying to have her help out all the time. It's not something I would have thought of but I'm definitely going to try that. We've been stressing the big sister aspect a lot to her and how great she's going to be. We also read her some stories about being a big sister with a new baby that she really likes. So hopefully that's helping. One tip I got from someone else is to give her a gift and tell her it's a gift from the baby to give to its new big sister and then take our girl out to let her find a gift to give to the baby.

Biggest thing would be to make sure you enjoy the second one as much as the first. It's too easy to forget that sometimes when you've done it all once before and things aren't as new the second time round.

Ya, I'm sure this is going to be something that I'll take for granted and it's going to be different when you can't focus 100% of your attention on them. It's going to be a tough balancing act. In my mind right now I keep telling myself that I can't neglect my girl because of the new baby. I have to make sure she gets plenty of attention too and that's what worries me more. I'm sure a routine will get set though and hopefully it's a good one.
 

mrkgoo

Member
I meant to get back to this thread earlier, but today was the due date and nothing. So I figure with the time, I'd at least respond to some of the good advice given.



Thanks!



Thanks! That's a good idea. We mostly let her roam free, but having a place to contain/occupy her temporarily sounds like a smart idea.



Good tip with trying to have her help out all the time. It's not something I would have thought of but I'm definitely going to try that. We've been stressing the big sister aspect a lot to her and how great she's going to be. We also read her some stories about being a big sister with a new baby that she really likes. So hopefully that's helping. One tip I got from someone else is to give her a gift and tell her it's a gift from the baby to give to its new big sister and then take our girl out to let her find a gift to give to the baby.



Ya, I'm sure this is going to be something that I'll take for granted and it's going to be different when you can't focus 100% of your attention on them. It's going to be a tough balancing act. In my mind right now I keep telling myself that I can't neglect my girl because of the new baby. I have to make sure she gets plenty of attention too and that's what worries me more. I'm sure a routine will get set though and hopefully it's a good one.

Cool idea about the gift.

What will the age gap be between the two? I guess you also emphasise that she is the bigger sister and thus has responsibility as well. Include her in the baby-rearing.
 

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Good tip with trying to have her help out all the time. It's not something I would have thought of but I'm definitely going to try that.

Be warned; a helpful child can make tasks a lot more difficult. :) I've developed a habit of inventing helpful tasks that don't actually impinge on my ability to do the job at hand with #2, but allow #1 to feel useful. Mostly fetching things that don't need to be fetched and holding things that don't need to be held. As long as it's a 'useful job', he's happy.
 

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
Our second was born on Oct 15th (our first is still a baby at 15 month)

1385504_10202377263412799_8463021_n.jpg


He's a cutie, but he is having a much harder time sleeping through the night than our first. Probably isn't helped that he already caught a cold, poor guy.

Between the no sleep, the colds running through the family, recovering from C-section, and the older guy getting jealous every time we feed him, my wife and I are worn out. I really hope this gets better, especially now that I went back to work.
 
Cool idea about the gift.

What will the age gap be between the two? I guess you also emphasise that she is the bigger sister and thus has responsibility as well. Include her in the baby-rearing.

The age gap is about 2 years and probably a few days shy of seven months.

Be warned; a helpful child can make tasks a lot more difficult. :) I've developed a habit of inventing helpful tasks that don't actually impinge on my ability to do the job at hand with #2, but allow #1 to feel useful. Mostly fetching things that don't need to be fetched and holding things that don't need to be held. As long as it's a 'useful job', he's happy.

Hah, I almost went down the wrong path. Thanks =)
 

mrkgoo

Member
Be warned; a helpful child can make tasks a lot more difficult. :) I've developed a habit of inventing helpful tasks that don't actually impinge on my ability to do the job at hand with #2, but allow #1 to feel useful. Mostly fetching things that don't need to be fetched and holding things that don't need to be held. As long as it's a 'useful job', he's happy.

Ah, fake help or placebo help...genius!
 
Welp, it looks like I have a new boy. Kinda glad to have one of each. He came 5.5 hours too early though =( It takes the pressure off of considering another one. Heh, already my girl was trying to help me swaddle her brother in the hospital. That "help" was certainly making it more difficult.
 

mrkgoo

Member
Welp, it looks like I have a new boy. Kinda glad to have one of each. He came 5.5 hours too early though =( It takes the pressure off of considering another one. Heh, already my girl was trying to help me swaddle her brother in the hospital. That "help" was certainly making it more difficult.

Congrats!

5.5 hours is considered too early?
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Any thoughts on organic whole milk vs regular? Of course on the internet you get a wide range or opinions with nut jobs at both extremes.
 

mrkgoo

Member
Any thoughts on organic whole milk vs regular? Of course on the internet you get a wide range or opinions with nut jobs at both extremes.

We still use formula.

But we've given her regular milk, mostly in cooked food.

I generally don't worry about organic produce, but we do use a brand of organic processes baby food.

Also, it might be different in the US, where they have different methods of raising cattle.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
We still use formula.

But we've given her regular milk, mostly in cooked food.

I generally don't worry about organic produce, but we do use a brand of organic processes baby food.

Also, it might be different in the US, where they have different methods of raising cattle.

yeah, that's the problem. they can say they're an organic farm but still buy non-organic cows and mix them into the herd.
 

aceface

Member
yeah, that's the problem. they can say they're an organic farm but still buy non-organic cows and mix them into the herd.

I just look for milk without growth hormones honestly and don't worry about organic. These days they pretty much all say they don't use the hormones.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
I just look for milk without growth hormones honestly and don't worry about organic. These days they pretty much all say they don't use the hormones.

Well that's what I mean, without hormones...I'll take a closer look next time. I got the Wegmans Organic which explicitly states that...

But at $6 a gallon compared to $2.19 for the regular stuff....damn.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
But at $6 a gallon compared to $2.19 for the regular stuff....damn.

It's a cost thing for me too, plus the availability of organic milk up here is really low. I know that the dairy industry is highly regulated in Canada, but holy shit.

Also jealous - a gallon of whole milk (not organic) is $5-$5.50 up here. Organic will run closer to $9. Granted, there probably are fewer hormones in the milk than US, I guess, but that's still a whack of change.

There are other options like goat's milk, but it's expensive too.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
It's a cost thing for me too, plus the availability of organic milk up here is really low. I know that the dairy industry is highly regulated in Canada, but holy shit.

Also jealous - a gallon of whole milk (not organic) is $5-$5.50 up here. Organic will run closer to $9. Granted, there probably are fewer hormones in the milk than US, I guess, but that's still a whack of change.

There are other options like goat's milk, but it's expensive too.

I'm curious what the costs are in other US states, but NY has a pretty healthy dairy industry and good distribution chain which probably accounts for the lower pricing. In addition, stores will often charge less for staples like milk, eggs, butter to get shoppers into the stores while gouging them on other things.
 

mrkgoo

Member
yeah, that's the problem. they can say they're an organic farm but still buy non-organic cows and mix them into the herd.

The term 'organic' is quite highly regulated I understand. Like wouldn't they not be allowed to mix the herd?

It's why the term 'natural' has been latched upon, because its use isn't regulated n
 

CrankyJay

Banned
The term 'organic' is quite highly regulated I understand. Like wouldn't they not be allowed to mix the herd?

It's why the term 'natural' has been latched upon, because its use isn't regulated n

I was under a different impression to be honest...I know of some farm communities that turn their noses up at other farms that claim they are organic for basically following the bare minimum which isn't all that much better than non-organic.
 

aceface

Member
Well that's what I mean, without hormones...I'll take a closer look next time. I got the Wegmans Organic which explicitly states that...

But at $6 a gallon compared to $2.19 for the regular stuff....damn.

Yeah just look at the labels. Around here even the generic store brands seems to say "from cows not treated with rBST hormones" these days.
 
Welp, I'm three weeks in to round two and it's been interesting so far. I still stand by my claim that babies are easy. In fact, in many ways it's easier the second time around since you don't triple check everything and are not as careful about what you do with them. I think the second kid might be slightly more challenging because the first kid ate predictably, never spit up, and didn't complain about dirty diapers. Despite things being different but easy, it's also harder the second time around. The baby gets in the way of taking care of the toddler. Before, it was all hands on to take care of the toddler, but now our attention and hands are divided. So while the baby caring is easier, having to deal with two makes it harder in the end. I still stand by my stance that babies are easy. It's toddlers that are challenging and hard, but also the most fun.

 

CrankyJay

Banned
my daughter is now pretty mobile and pulling herself up on things, including my tv stand...i really need to start tethering stuff. she's constantly reaching for the TV and the TV legs and i saw she pulled it a few inches towards the edge.

It's an ultra slim LED so it's only like 35 pounds and she's pretty strong, if I don't tether it she can pull that thing on top of her. Yikes.

She'll be walking any day now I can feel.
 

kitch9

Banned
Welp, I'm three weeks in to round two and it's been interesting so far. I still stand by my claim that babies are easy. In fact, in many ways it's easier the second time around since you don't triple check everything and are not as careful about what you do with them. I think the second kid might be slightly more challenging because the first kid ate predictably, never spit up, and didn't complain about dirty diapers. Despite things being different but easy, it's also harder the second time around. The baby gets in the way of taking care of the toddler. Before, it was all hands on to take care of the toddler, but now our attention and hands are divided. So while the baby caring is easier, having to deal with two makes it harder in the end. I still stand by my stance that babies are easy. It's toddlers that are challenging and hard, but also the most fun.

I've got 3 month old twins.

Its tough, Twin 1 had been through 3 outfits along with an emergency bath and we had to change our bedsheets due to projectile puke by 8am this morning, Twin 2 managed an explosive nappy escaping shit (Further emergency bath needed.) in between all the bedlam Twin 1 was creating because he eats like a goddamn machine and it needs to go somewhere.

I had a meeting at 9.30am which I struggled to get to even though I was up 3 hours early.

Thankfully they are sleeping through 9 hours at the minute, god know what this would be like if they were night screamers!
 

Selner

Member
Be warned; a helpful child can make tasks a lot more difficult. :) I've developed a habit of inventing helpful tasks that don't actually impinge on my ability to do the job at hand with #2, but allow #1 to feel useful. Mostly fetching things that don't need to be fetched and holding things that don't need to be held. As long as it's a 'useful job', he's happy.

The suggestion my wife's aunt made was to get our son a baby doll. Then whever we need to focus on the babies (twins are due late Dec/early Jan), we can tell him to do something with the baby doll (feed it, change its diaper, bath it, whatever).

Son likes to do whatever we're doing, so if he can play with the baby doll it'll feel like he's contributing.

And kitch, your little emergency bath and outfit story scares me. The logistics of changing/bathing two babies is a little frightening.
 
I've got 3 month old twins.

Its tough, Twin 1 had been through 3 outfits along with an emergency bath and we had to change our bedsheets due to projectile puke by 8am this morning, Twin 2 managed an explosive nappy escaping shit (Further emergency bath needed.) in between all the bedlam Twin 1 was creating because he eats like a goddamn machine and it needs to go somewhere.

I had a meeting at 9.30am which I struggled to get to even though I was up 3 hours early.

Thankfully they are sleeping through 9 hours at the minute, god know what this would be like if they were night screamers!

There are two things I have high respect for. 1) A single parent and 2) Parents with twins or more. Based on my experience, I can only imagine how much tougher it must be in either of those situations and the fact that they still make it through the day, I give a lot of respect to what one must go through.

The one thing about babies for me is, they're immobile and there's a very short list of things that they need when they're complaining. The combination of the two makes it way easier IMO than a toddler who is on the go, has desires, wants, dislikes, and a whole world of logic and illogical things that you have to wade through. A baby wants to eat, and they eat. A toddler told you they wanted peanut butter toast in two pieces and then two seconds later complains that it's not a big piece.

The suggestion my wife's aunt made was to get our son a baby doll. Then whever we need to focus on the babies (twins are due late Dec/early Jan), we can tell him to do something with the baby doll (feed it, change its diaper, bath it, whatever).

Son likes to do whatever we're doing, so if he can play with the baby doll it'll feel like he's contributing.

And kitch, your little emergency bath and outfit story scares me. The logistics of changing/bathing two babies is a little frightening.

Heh, I've tried this thanks to the previous suggestion of giving them something to do and I think our girl has seen through what we're trying to do. We used to do this with the kitchen when my wife was cooking and would tell her to go cook in her kitchen, I think now she sees it as not being the same and wants to do it on the real thing. So giving her a doll won't be up to par with working the real baby. Even real tasks versus fake tasks she's sometimes seeing through or at least realizing there's a more important task needing to be done on the baby.
 
This might just be me, but do any of you parents with twins get weirded out by the attention? Every time I take the twins to the store I get looks and I hear people whisper something about the twins. It's nothing bad, mostly just "Oh twins" or "How cute". I also get stopped constantly by people wanting to take a look. I know twins aren't super common, but people act like they are seeing twins for the first time. Like I said maybe it's just me, but it kind of makes me uncomfortable.
 

mrkgoo

Member
Welp, I'm three weeks in to round two and it's been interesting so far. I still stand by my claim that babies are easy. In fact, in many ways it's easier the second time around since you don't triple check everything and are not as careful about what you do with them. I think the second kid might be slightly more challenging because the first kid ate predictably, never spit up, and didn't complain about dirty diapers. Despite things being different but easy, it's also harder the second time around. The baby gets in the way of taking care of the toddler. Before, it was all hands on to take care of the toddler, but now our attention and hands are divided. So while the baby caring is easier, having to deal with two makes it harder in the end. I still stand by my stance that babies are easy. It's toddlers that are challenging and hard, but also the most fun.
Gorgeous pic!

Ive heard time and time again the second baby is easier - probably largely due to parental experience, even though every baby can be (WILLL be) different.

My daughter is reaching toddler age now, and basically walking/running around.

It's a lot more energy, but I felt baby time (which I actually miss) to be not so much tougher or harder, but mostly just different. It WAS hard, but in a very different way.

I still think that being a parent has two sides - how the baby behaves/acts and how the parents do. Because of that, babies can be a lot more difficult even though they only eat, sleep and poop.

I remember (and I also believe we repress a lot of the hardships from that time) baby needing feeding every 3 hours, practically on the dot, so if you were out and about and even 5 minutes late, you'd get an earful. Now, we can go quite a bit after time, or use snacks or whatever, time becomes much less managed and flexible. Feeding isn't always just "baby is hungry, baby eats", you get latching issues, bottle issues, reflux etc. Constant washing, burping, sterilising....

Of course, toddler's require much more attention and that in itself is tiring and relentless. But as you say, also a lot more fun. In my experience, baby was tougher, but toddler is more 'work'. As parents, we all have our own unique experience. A friend of mine has their second child and having a particularly tough time with teething - we had no such issues.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Joining newborn-GAF! On Day 5 here and have probably slept a combined total of 15 hours or so since my wife went into labor some 140 hours ago. Somehow, I'm handling it better than I expected.

Our son immediately went for the breast after being born, but my wife had trouble making breast milk and could only produce a few drops of colostrum per feeding. After a couple of days, we were almost about to start giving him formula when a very generous friend, who has a six-month old, offered to share some of her extra breast milk, so we've been using that to supplement. My wife's breast milk is starting to come in now, so I think (hope) we're mostly in the clear.

I got worried the other day after visiting the pediatrician, because it became clear that my son's jaundice level had gone into intermediate risk territory. 24 hours after he was born, his test results came back as being extremely low in terms of jaundice, but I think the lack of breast milk, and, as a result, a lack of stools, the jaundice worsened. He's feeding every 2 hours now, and finally pooped the other night, so I'm hoping things will improve soon. We're scheduled to check in with the pediatrician again tomorrow afternoon.

Anyway, this is where I'm at right now! I expected challenges, but this whole baby thing is a lot tougher than I expected! I'm sure I'll be in here asking for advice frequently in the near future.
 

mrkgoo

Member
Joining newborn-GAF! On Day 5 here and have probably slept a combined total of 15 hours or so since my wife went into labor some 140 hours ago. Somehow, I'm handling it better than I expected.

Our son immediately went for the breast after being born, but my wife had trouble making breast milk and could only produce a few drops of colostrum per feeding. After a couple of days, we were almost about to start giving him formula when a very generous friend, who has a six-month old, offered to share some of her extra breast milk, so we've been using that to supplement. My wife's breast milk is starting to come in now, so I think (hope) we're mostly in the clear.

I got worried the other day after visiting the pediatrician, because it became clear that my son's jaundice level had gone into intermediate risk territory. 24 hours after he was born, his test results came back as being extremely low in terms of jaundice, but I think the lack of breast milk, and, as a result, a lack of stools, the jaundice worsened. He's feeding every 2 hours now, and finally pooped the other night, so I'm hoping things will improve soon. We're scheduled to check in with the pediatrician again tomorrow afternoon.

Anyway, this is where I'm at right now! I expected challenges, but this whole baby thing is a lot tougher than I expected! I'm sure I'll be in here asking for advice frequently in the near future.

Congrats!

To be fair, though, resorting to supplementing breast feeding with some formula will not harm your baby. You sound as if "almost about to start feeding formula" as if it were some poison or something.

Do the best you can, and things will be fine. Man, our first few days were a needless nightmare, as we had elevated temperatures, suspected infection (although it just turns out someone forgot to turn the radiator in the room off), jaundice levels requiring rehospitalisation (which turned out to be unnecessary, but then, by that stage my wife and daughter weren't allowed to check out) etc etc.

As always, parent-GAF will offer advice as best we can.

The best advice I ever heard amounted to knowing that every kid is different, so all 'advice' are just guidelines. You are entitled to be the parent YOU want to be.

Also, take note that, IMO, the difficulties of being a parent to a newborn is two-fold - there is how the baby acts, and how you, the parent act. That is, YOUR attitude plays just as much a part in the hardship. You have a certain level of control in how you react and perceive things. YOU can make certain aspects more easy or more difficult, depending on who you want to see things.

It's ok to be a bad parent some of the time - it's normal to have minor lapses in decision-making, so don't beat yourself up over those moments, and always strive to move forwards.

Lastly, at times, it does seem like a baby is all take, take, take, with no give. But rest assured, those great moments you hear about ARE coming, and they ARE everything you had hoped for. In the meantime, your baby is still giving - because your son will be testing you. You will learn more about yourself than you have ever known, your limits, your patience. This is an amazing thing, so be thankful for it!
 
Congrats!

To be fair, though, resorting to supplementing breast feeding with some formula will not harm your baby. You sound as if "almost about to start feeding formula" as if it were some poison or something.

This. Breast milk for us came late, so we just loaded him up on formula and kept trying. The key is really just to keep the baby happy, and that means fed. Jaundice will go away; hunger will just drive you bonkers. Eventually the milk came in. These days I'm not sure if ours would even try formula.
 

mrkgoo

Member

Awesome, pretty much all of that is spot on. Thanks for posting.

I like the lobster analogy. I still think newborns a re a lot harder, but more because YOU as a parent are less prepared, and also much more anxious, but as they grow older and more demanding, you grow more and better at dealing with unexpected things.

Basically, you become an expert at it.

I like the positives too. Like I mentioned, it's not actually all take, take ,take. kids give you so much. They are little humans without the weight and pretentiousness of society upon them - they are 'pure' people, and that moment is a time when you can actually learn a lot about yourself and people in general.

And interesting about the movie thing. I have a friend who couldn't play Heavy Rain because of this, after they bought it. I still want to play it one day, and maybe the added emotion might make it stronger or maybe I wouldn't be able to bear it. I'd like to know.
 
I can still watch those kinds of movies but they definitely tug the heartstrings a LOT more. List was definitely on point though. Showed it to my wife and she agreed.
 

aceface

Member

GlamFM

Banned
16 month now. Time flies. First year was very stressful. She was born 10 weeks premature - we were constantly worried, now finally there is nothing left to be worried about and we can focus on having the best time of our lives.

sxVz3Hb.jpg
 

kitch9

Banned
16 month now. Time flies. First year was very stressful. She was born 10 weeks premature - we were constantly worried, now finally there is nothing left to be worried about and we can focus on having the best time of our lives.

sxVz3Hb.jpg

Yeah, my two were born at 31 weeks, it's tough going and endless hospital appointments. They are laughing and smiling now so it's all worth it. Just one more consultation to get a heart murmer checked out and hopefully that should be us fully discharged.
 

GlamFM

Banned
Yeah, my two were born at 31 weeks, it's tough going and endless hospital appointments. They are laughing and smiling now so it's all worth it. Just one more consultation to get a heart murmer checked out and hopefully that should be us fully discharged.

Yes, tough times. Our little one was so kind to develop at the right pace, so we knew or at least hoped early on that she was a fighter.
 

Shadowof

Neo Member
Currently posting from the hospital room. Wife 38 weeks and 3 has been in labor for 8hrs now. Tried some pushing giving her a rest. Nervous and excited cant wait to see our first. Having a baby girl!
 

Shadowof

Neo Member
Just a follow up post, little lady came into the world night of the 19th 7lbs 8oz. Love her to death and man show how badass women can be the wife is a super human very little sleep but still able to handle the feedings. We should be going home today both of my ladies have checked out just fine to all the med tests.

That comic had me laughing so hard. Partly as nervous fear that it is going to be just like that... So worth it though.
 

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
602137_10102637055501538_734129072_n.jpg


Here are our two boys, the younger one is about 2.5 months old, and the older one is 17 months.

they are actually pretty good, they both sleep through the night, although the older one has been trying to get what he wants just by pure screams at times, which stresses my wife out something fierce.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
My 2 and a half year old has gone from being am awesome sleeper to a nightmare. He refuses to go to sleep and we are having the hardest time figuring out what to do. We have an established routine, he is sleepy, but as soon as you leave the room he leaps up and follows you. We have tried leading him back to bed and having him lay down with a perfunctory goodnight, but he just gets up again - rinse and repeat for hours. After a week of 2 - 3 hour long stretches of this we put a barrier up in the doorway, with the intention of letting him cry it out, returning every ten minutes to 20 minutes, to reassure him and get him back into bed. We did this for 4 hours last night, he actually dozes standing up resting on the gate. Running out of ideas. Anyone got any suggestions? Meanwhile my 9 month old happily goes to bed at 8 and sleeps a solid 11 or 12 hours.
 
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