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[James Sawyer Ford]

Those games won't be vastly inferior. Most of these devs will start focus on switch 2 as their lead platform.

Yes they will be vastly inferior. PS5 will have likely 3x the performance in docked mode, not to mention better architecture for storage and RAM

These studios will not focus on switch 2 as a primary platform when it’s starting its userbase from zero, where PS5 will already have 70+M sold already, and where Japanese sales pale in comparison to the western US and European market

Your argument is a fantasy

 

[Fabieter]

Yes they will be vastly inferior. PS5 will have likely 3x the performance in docked mode, not to mention better architecture for storage and RAM

These studios will not focus on switch 2 as a primary platform when it’s starting its userbase from zero, where PS5 will already have 70+M sold already, and where Japanese sales pale in comparison to the western US and European market

Your argument is a fantasy

For 90% of the Japanese games these 3x in performance mode isn't even relevant. For the other 10% more modern feature set like dlss compared to shitty fsr will go along way.

Japanese software sales don't exist on ps5. Devs are in dire need for the ps5. And early ports will get big exposure and sales. So no it doesn't matter if they start from 0. Japanese software will fly of the shelves.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

For 90% of the Japanese games these 3x in performance mode isn't even relevant. For the other 10% more modern feature set like dlss compared to shitty fsr will go along way.

Japanese software sales don't exist on ps5. Devs are in dire need for the ps5. And early ports will get big exposure and sales. So no it doesn't matter if they start from 0. Japanese software will fly of the shelves.

I’m not arguing whether these games will sell more on switch 2 in Japan, they probably will

But the Japanese market is small. 90% of sales or more are outside of Japan

And that says nothing of the performance gulf which is massive. Ff7R will be a huge downgrade as an example

 

[Fabieter]

I’m not arguing whether these games will sell more on switch 2 in Japan, they probably will

But the Japanese market is small. 90% of sales or more are outside of Japan

And that says nothing of the performance gulf which is massive. Ff7R will be a huge downgrade as an example

PlayStation has become more of a Western-focused console these days, and even in the West, it's losing ground when it comes to Japanese games.

I don't understand why some Sony fans feel so threatened by the idea of strong Nintendo hardware. If anything, it might push Sony to reconsider selling us consoles for over a grand in the next generation.

 

[MrCunningham]

From what I have read on Famiboards there actually aren't any other examples of the number "8" being used in this way. At least if you can find one through ChatGPT, please cite it.

All ChatGPT is doing is summarising the speculation from existing sources. When I searched, it cited Computerbase.de. Then I asked:

Provide an another example of where a code like "SNW8VF" was used to designate a manufacturing process

And I got this nonsense answer:

"Codes like "SNW8VF" are commonly used in the semiconductor industry to designate manufacturing processes or specific chip models. A similar example is NVIDIA's "GP102-400-A1," which designates the specific GPU die used in high-end graphics cards like the GTX 1080 Ti.

Here's another example:

TSMC N7 Process Example

The naming convention "N7" is used by TSMC to represent its 7nm manufacturing process. While "N7" isn't exactly like "SNW8VF," it demonstrates how a code can succinctly describe the node technology used to fabricate the chip. This code appears on technical documentation, marketing material, and sometimes on the chips themselves.

These codes provide quick references for the fabrication technology or a unique identifier for engineers, partners, or industry insiders. While some codes are public knowledge, others (like "SNW8VF") may require context, such as leaks or product announcements, to interpret fully."

From what I have read on Famiboards there actually aren't any other examples of the number "8" being used in this way. At least if you can find one through ChatGPT, please cite it.

For me, this is the prompt that I used to get this answer from ChatGPT..

You said:​

s tw 24 snw8vf m0p

ChatGPT said:​

It seems like your message might have some typos or is written in code. Could you clarify or elaborate on what you're asking? I'm here to help!

You said:​

it is a chip made by nvidia , I want to know if you have any information on it. I think it is related to the nvidia Tegra

ChatGPT said:​

The chip labeled "S TW 24 SNW8VF MOP GMLX30-R-A1" is believed to be an NVIDIA Tegra system-on-chip (SoC) intended for the upcoming Nintendo Switch 2 console. The prefix "S" suggests that Samsung is the manufacturer, as NVIDIA has historically used "S" to denote Samsung and "P" for TSMC. The code "SNW8VF" indicates that the chip is produced using Samsung's 8nm process technology.
ComputerBase

It cited this German website called Computer Base. To be honest, I never translated the site, or checked into it deeper.

I did make a mistake and use a '0' instead of an 'O' in MOP. But ChatGPT seemed to catch on to that error.

You said:
SNW8VF

ChatGPT said:​

The designation "SNW8VF" is associated with an NVIDIA system-on-chip (SoC) believed to be part of the upcoming Nintendo Switch 2 console. The "SN" prefix suggests that the chip is manufactured by Samsung Foundry, as NVIDIA has historically used "SN" to denote Samsung-produced chips. The "W8" within the code is interpreted to indicate that the chip is produced using Samsung's 8nm process technology.
ResetEra

Which then hilariously cited Reset Era. So take it for what you will.

But ChatGPT seems pretty certain that the "W8" in SNW8VF is somme sort of code for it using 8NM. SN seems pretty clearly Samsung.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

PlayStation has become more of a Western-focused console these days, and even in the West, it's losing ground when it comes to Japanese games.

I don't understand why some Sony fans feel so threatened by the idea of strong Nintendo hardware. If anything, it might push Sony to reconsider selling us consoles for over a grand in the next generation.

Who is threatened?

You are just inventing false arguments hardly anyone is making

 

[Fabieter]

Who is threatened?

You are just inventing false arguments hardly anyone is making

Its just weird when all leaks point to an experience between ps4 pro and ps5 that specific people downplay that console. Some of them think Switch 2 is gonna sell like the wiiu. That's redoncilous.

 

[StereoVsn]

I do hope it’s at least 6nm process for efficiency. Either way it’s going to be interesting to see when Nintendo finally releases the info.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Its just weird when all leaks point to an experience between ps4 pro and ps5 that specific people downplay that console. Some of them think Switch 2 is gonna sell like the wiiu. That's redoncilous.

The leaks do not point to that, history points to the opposite

I think switch 2 will sell well, hard to know if it will sell like the original, especially if Nintendo games are cross gen. Nintendo likely won’t abandon switch 1

 

[Fabieter]

The leaks do not point to that, history points to the opposite

I think switch 2 will sell well, hard to know if it will sell like the original, especially if Nintendo games are cross gen. Nintendo likely won’t abandon switch 1

History also pointed at Sony not asking almost a grand for their pro console in Europe but here we are. If leaks are true this is gonna be a bigger leap than ps4 to ps5.

They ps5 had cross gen for years for most games tho. I know it had some exclusives but that's also gonna be true for Nintendo. I can't see mk9 releasing on the switch 1 for example.

 

[Buggy Loop]

But ChatGPT seems pretty certain that the "W8" in SNW8VF is somme sort of code for it using 8NM. SN seems pretty clearly Samsung.

Samsung 8nm does not fit with the die size we see

All estimates point to a near Series S die size, from the images leaked, we have the component sizes around the socket to compare.

Ballparks of this Nvidia socket is ~190-210 mm^2

Let's pick 200mm^2 for simplicity. The ±10mm^2 don't matter.


Orin: 16SM, 12*A78, 21B transistors, on samsung 8nm node is 455mm^2
T239: 12SM, 8*A78, 200mm^2

With the samsung density at 8nm, you would have 9B transistors

You do not cut an Orin from 21B transistors to 9B transistors with those T239 stats. So Samsung 8nm is eliminated. Not needing any precision in measuring die sizes or knowing in-depth the architecture changes. 21B→9B is too far a departure.

Samsung 7LPP & 6LPP are gone from the fabs.

It leaves Samsung 5nm node. I don't think Nintendo would go for 4nm for costs reasons.

Then rumour of 5nm

Thing is while Qualcomm left Samsung pissed off and went to TSMC, Nvidia is kind of a good match with Samsung as Nvidia does not go hyper dense in their architecture, leaving room for heat dissipation and stability. It's why nodes don't really matter in the end. The chip manufacturers all have vastly different coefficient targets when making their chipsets. Nvidia knows well their architecture and this fab.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

History also pointed at Sony not asking almost a grand for their pro console in Europe but here we are. If leaks are true this is gonna be a bigger leap than ps4 to ps5.

They ps5 had cross gen for years for most games tho. I know it had some exclusives but that's also gonna be true for Nintendo. I can't see mk9 releasing on the switch 1 for example.

History pointed to a ps5 that was still $500 due to inflation, and switch will certainly be $399 at a minimum for tech that will be nearly a decade old

I can totally see Nintendo supporting the next MK on switch 1

They won’t abandon that huge user base

 

[Fabieter]

History pointed to a ps5 that was still $500 due to inflation, and switch will certainly be $399 at a minimum for tech that will be nearly a decade old

I can totally see Nintendo supporting the next MK on switch 1

They won’t abandon that huge user base

The tech isn’t going to be a decade old. That’s not the point here at all. In fact, the tech is actually more advanced than what’s in the PS5.

And no, it’s not like Sony abandoned it for a few years. They still had exclusives during that time.

As for Nintendo, they don’t need the old console base for MK9. They’ve already sold around 60 million copies of MK8 Deluxe. Half the people buying a Switch 2 will likely pick up MK9 when they buy the new system. It’d be ridiculous to have it on the Switch 1.

 

[pulicat]

It seems many of you here were expecting Nintendo to manufacture a beastly portable machine and sell it at a cheap price at the same time.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You guys talking Switch 2 BC really comes down to how much the avg Nintendo gamers cares for playing old games. Switch didn't do BC for Wii and Wii U digital games. Nobody cared. Different format too. Cant even play the new media either. Nobody cared again.

Best thing to do for Nintendo is dont support it, or else it'll be expected in all systems going forward to max out sales of new Marios and Mario Karts.

 

[Fabieter]

You guys talking Switch 2 BC really comes down to how much the avg Nintendo gamers cares for playing old games. Switch didn't do BC for Wii and Wii U digital games. Nobody cared. Different format too. Cant even play the new media either. Nobody cared again.

Best thing to do for Nintendo is dont support it, or else it'll be expected in all systems going forward to max out sales of new Marios and Mario Karts.

You can't ignore bc in this day and age no matter how the average guy cares for it.

 

[AJUMP23]

As long as it plays Nintendo games.

 

[MrA]

RDR comparison shows the switch is only marginally more powerful than ps3

All of these games could be downported to ps3

Red dead runs at 40% higher resolution in handheld mode, and over 3x the resolution docked, coupled with significantly better draw distance and and a far more stable framerate, hardly a minor upgrade

For me, this is the prompt that I used to get this answer from ChatGPT..

It cited this German website called Computer Base. To be honest, I never translated the site, or checked into it deeper.

I did make a mistake and use a '0' instead of an 'O' in MOP. But ChatGPT seemed to catch on to that error.



Which then hilariously cited Reset Era. So take it for what you will.

But ChatGPT seems pretty certain that the "W8" in SNW8VF is somme sort of code for it using 8NM. SN seems pretty clearly Samsung.

8w doesn't appear on any of Nvidia's known 8nm chips, I'm not saying I know the node, but that 8w doesn't indicate node size, the same locations is occupied by different things on other known 8nm chips like zd or zc,

 

[KeplerL2]

Samsung 8nm does not fit with the die size we see

All estimates point to a near Series S die size, from the images leaked, we have the component sizes around the socket to compare.

Ballparks of this Nvidia socket is ~190-210 mm^2

Let's pick 200mm^2 for simplicity. The ±10mm^2 don't matter.


Orin: 16SM, 12*A78, 21B transistors, on samsung 8nm node is 455mm^2
T239: 12SM, 8*A78, 200mm^2

With the samsung density at 8nm, you would have 9B transistors

You do not cut an Orin from 21B transistors to 9B transistors with those T239 stats. So Samsung 8nm is eliminated. Not needing any precision in measuring die sizes or knowing in-depth the architecture changes. 21B→9B is too far a departure.

Samsung 7LPP & 6LPP are gone from the fabs.

It leaves Samsung 5nm node. I don't think Nintendo would go for 4nm for costs reasons.

Then rumour of 5nm

Thing is while Qualcomm left Samsung pissed off and went to TSMC, Nvidia is kind of a good match with Samsung as Nvidia does not go hyper dense in their architecture, leaving room for heat dissipation and stability. It's why nodes don't really matter in the end. The chip manufacturers all have vastly different coefficient targets when making their chipsets. Nvidia knows well their architecture and this fab.

First of all, Orin is 17B transistors:

Secondly, the math from that Famiboards poster is complete wrong. He is ignoring that T239 also cuts down memory bus width in half, cache sizes in half, removes the NPU (NVIDIA DLA) and removes automotive-grade RAS.

8nm is still the most likely node, even if we can't rule out something like 4LPP yet.

 

[blacktout]

I can totally see Nintendo supporting the next MK on switch 1

They won’t abandon that huge user base

OK, I will make a bet with you:

Name five high profile Switch 2 games that you believe will be cross-gen and I will tell you if I think they will be Switch 2 exclusives. If you get more correct than me, I will take a six month ban. If I get more correct, you take a six month ban.

If this doesn't seem fair, we can go back and forth until we decide on five games that you think will be cross gen and I think will be exclusive.

You guys talking Switch 2 BC really comes down to how much the avg Nintendo gamers cares for playing old games. Switch didn't do BC for Wii and Wii U digital games. Nobody cared. Different format too. Cant even play the new media either. Nobody cared again.

Best thing to do for Nintendo is dont support it, or else it'll be expected in all systems going forward to max out sales of new Marios and Mario Karts.

Nintendo has already confirmed that the Switch 2 will feature backwards compatibility. It's only the exact details that are ambiguous.

 

[Beechos]

Even if the tech is new, performance will suffer due to power, heat, size, etc etc... its like a mobile gpu vs a desktop one. It'd be very surprised if this ends up being anything slightly more powerful than a steamdeck all things considered.
I would actually bet itll perform worse than a steamdeck.

 

[existensmaximum]

Wow, people's expectations here are wild. Have you already forgotten the speculations surrounding the Switch and how that turned out?

If anything, expect to be disappointed about the hardware and then lower your expectations further. Great games are 100% guaranteed regardless but you need to get real. This is Nintendo

Wishful thinking and "what makes sense" need not apply.

 

[diffusionx]

Wow, people's expectations here are wild. Have you already forgotten the speculations surrounding the Switch and how that turned out?

If anything, expect to be disappointed about the hardware and then lower your expectations further. Great games are 100% guaranteed regardless but you need to get real. This is Nintendo

Wishful thinking and "what makes sense" need not apply.

people forget the speculation and get disappointed every single time there is new hardware. It just comes with the territory on this board.

Even if the tech is new, performance will suffer due to power, heat, size, etc etc... its like a mobile gpu vs a desktop one. It'd be very surprised if this ends up being anything slightly more powerful than a steamdeck all things considered.
I would actually bet itll perform worse than a steamdeck.

Steam Deck or slightly better is probably what we are going to see yea. But that is still a huge step up from what we have now.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Red dead runs at 40% higher resolution in handheld mode, and over 3x the resolution docked, coupled with significantly better draw distance and and a far more stable framerate, hardly a minor upgrade

It's a decent upgrade.

 

[diffusionx]

According to this video:



Nintendo Switch Docked: 1920x1080p | 30fps
PS3: 1152x640p | 30fps


It's a decent upgrade, but not 3X the resolution

yes it is. Well, just about.

1152*640= 737, 280
1920*1080 = 2,037,600

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

yes it is. Well, just about.

1152*640= 737, 280
1920*1080 = 2,037,600

True, I went back and revised my post.

 

[existensmaximum]

people forget the speculation and get disappointed every single time there is new hardware. It just comes with the territory on this board.


Steam Deck or slightly better is probably what we are going to see yea. But that is still a huge step up from what we have now.

Very true. I would be utterly shocked if the Switch 2 has better performance than the Steam Deck though but we'll see. Fun and interesting times ahead!

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Im ready for buy it

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

OK, I will make a bet with you:

Name five high profile Switch 2 games that you believe will be cross-gen and I will tell you if I think they will be Switch 2 exclusives. If you get more correct than me, I will take a six month ban. If I get more correct, you take a six month ban.

If this doesn't seem fair, we can go back and forth until we decide on five games that you think will be cross gen and I think will be exclusive.




Nintendo has already confirmed that the Switch 2 will feature backwards compatibility. It's only the exact details that are ambiguous.

I don't do bets of this sort, I could be wrong. I just don't think Nintendo will abandon Switch 1 players - I think MK8, MP4, Smash, Splatoon, and the next 2D marios are all going to be cross-gen.

 

[Robb]

I think MK9, MP4, Smash, Splatoon, and the next 2D marios are all going to be cross-gen.

Metroid seems like a given. I’d hate to see the rest follow suit though.. Would be very disappointing to me, but yeah, I wouldn’t rule it out either.

 

[Robb]

Not sure if this has been posted:

A patent filed in July 2023, but published on Tuesday, describes a system of machine learning that can convert images of one resolution into a higher one.

The new patent mentions using upscaling technology to reduce overall game sizes to fit a modern game onto “smaller capacity physical media,” for example, game cards.

The example given is that a game with native 4K textures might need a 60GB download, but a 1080 native version might only need 20GB (which would allow it to fit on a 32GB Switch Cart, the current max size Nintendo produces for Switch 1). The idea being to do a 4X upscale on the device in realtime.

All examples given in the patent talk about speeds and accuracy of either 540p to 1080p or 1080p to 4K upscales.

Sounds like Switch 2 games, at least from Nintendo, might still be fully available on-cart. Given that this is a patent that will actually be used.

 

[Kataploom]

Not sure if this has been posted:

Sounds like Switch 2 games, at least from Nintendo, might still be fully available on-cart. Given that this is a patent that will actually be used.

I came back to check if this was already posted. It sounds to me more than just DLSS, it's that AI texture supersampling Nvidia just talked about some days ago, I can see Nintendo, master of commission, definitely being interested on this

 

[Buggy Loop]

First of all, Orin is 17B transistors:

Secondly, the math from that Famiboards poster is complete wrong. He is ignoring that T239 also cuts down memory bus width in half, cache sizes in half, removes the NPU (NVIDIA DLA) and removes automotive-grade RAS.

8nm is still the most likely node, even if we can't rule out something like 4LPP yet.

First, 17B was the older number. When Orin showed up 2 years later the stats changed

Faraday Future Selects NVIDIA Drive Orin To Power Flagship FF 91 Luxury EV For Next Generation Autonomous Driving

Faraday Future announced today that it is deploying the NVIDIA Drive Orin platform in its flagship ultra-luxury FF 91 electric vehicle.

www.ff.com

21B

17B would put even less on T239 with 7.4B transistors. That's Tegra Xavier @ 7B territory with Volta based 512 cuda cores, no RT, no ML. Like cmon dude. I don't want to entertain wet dreams of Nvidia R&D'ing an Ampere chipset just to be wiped on the floor by almost everything else on the market for the same price range such as Snapdragon.

Not a single Ampere product line from Nvidia is close to those numbers. Not one.

Secondly, we have no clue what and if T239 cuts down on cache. Do you have a clue the size of the all-new file decompression engine? The Ada backported elements?

Remove the 4 SMs at the bottom and the 4 A78 at the bottom. You can think that memory width changes a whole lot of things but really it does not in the grand scheme of things on a GPU. You could strip all the surrounding 32-bit memory interfaces from Orin around and you would still never be close to 42% of the T234 area.

You can't rip out ISP, DSP, HDMI, NAND, USB, I/O (that one can be simplified but not much gain), video encode/decode processors. So really. Do tell how you get to 9B transistors.

 

[blacktout]

I don't do bets of this sort, I could be wrong. I just don't think Nintendo will abandon Switch 1 players - I think MK8, MP4, Smash, Splatoon, and the next 2D marios are all going to be cross-gen.

Fair enough. I agree that Metroid Prime 4 will be cross-gen. It's certainly going to the OG Switch.

I think Mario Kart 9 (or X or whatever they call it) will be exclusive to the Switch 2. I also think Splatoon 4 will be a Switch 2 exclusive.

I don't know about Smash. If the Switch 2 gets a true Smash reboot or sequel I think it will be exclusive, but that could be years away, and I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo releases Smash Ultimate: Complete Edition or something to fill time.

The next 2D Mario is probably the hardest call. If it's a remake of one or more New Super Mario Bros games, then it's 100% going to the OG Switch too. If it's a completely new game, I think it's probably at least four years off, since Wonder just released last year, by which point I doubt Nintendo will still be supporting the original Switch.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

RDR comparison shows the switch is only marginally more powerful than ps3

All of these games could be downported to ps3

Ah yes. The PlayStation 3. 599 crab munching king of the sea. Yes it's capabilities were so good it could run something like this.

In it's sleep, because CELL is always thinking. Yes it has no problems remastering 20 year old games like Shadow of the Colossus in high glory

I mean look at that detail. You can almost feel the PS2 console in your hand. Sorry I meant PS3.

Jaw dropping. The power of 599. Ludicrous to think it couldn't run something like this

Yes. Mind boggling that many do not agree with your wise spirit James. I mean the pure power of the PS3 on display here

Is simply so far above the heights of this

 

[Fabieter]

I don't do bets of this sort, I could be wrong. I just don't think Nintendo will abandon Switch 1 players - I think MK8, MP4, Smash, Splatoon, and the next 2D marios are all going to be cross-gen.

Its Nintendo. All those games will be every green. You would lose that bet and you know it.

 

[KeplerL2]

First, 17B was the older number. When Orin showed up 2 years later the stats changed

Faraday Future Selects NVIDIA Drive Orin To Power Flagship FF 91 Luxury EV For Next Generation Autonomous Driving

Faraday Future announced today that it is deploying the NVIDIA Drive Orin platform in its flagship ultra-luxury FF 91 electric vehicle.

www.ff.com

Why are you quoting some random company and not NVIDIA?

17B would put even less on T239 with 7.4B transistors

Different designs with different ratios of Logic/SRAM/Analog can have very different densities. Look at H100 vs AD102 as an example.

Secondly, we have no clue what and if T239 cuts down on cache.

Been a while since I looked at the hacked NVIDIA data, but IIRC it showed T239 having half the cache for both CPU and GPU portions.

Do you have a clue the size of the all-new file decompression engine?

No, but it's quite small on PS5/Xbox.

The Ada backported elements?

Clock gating adds minimal area.

You can think that memory width changes a whole lot of things but really it does not in the grand scheme of things on a GPU.

It definitely does.

You can't rip out ISP, DSP, HDMI, NAND, USB, I/O (that one can be simplified but not much gain), video encode/decode processors.

You can remove a lot of stuff. As I said it's already confirmed that T239 doesn't have the NPU and all RAS features. A lot of I/O can be cutdown, encoder/decoder can be simplified due to targeting a fixed resolution.

 

[PeteBull]

I don't think the comparison should be this straightforward.

I'm not saying Switch 2 is gonna be as powerful pixel for pixel as the XSS, but there are some key differences:

- x86 vs ARM
- AMD vs Nvidia
- GDDR5 vs LPDDR5X
- PCI-e vs UFS storage
- T239 is a custom chip created for Switch 2 which has everything not useful for gaming removed, contrary to the Tegra X1 un the current Switch

Also consider how much power draws Wii U vs Switch, or latest PS360 revisions vs Switch, yet Switch is much more powerful than those.

Node shrinkening slowed down significantly from that time period, series s is on 7nm node already, bro, switch2 being on tnmsc 6nm(not even 3nm like apple phones) wont make it crazy more power efficient unfortunately.
Believe me, i want switch 2 to be as powerful as possible, hell i would gladly give up on handheld mode just so docked is comparable to series x/base ps5, but cant be helped, physics is a nasty cold biatch
U can see it in my post u quoted, compare ps5base vs slim version, slim has higher powerdraw, precisely coz node shrinking slowed down big time, unlike how it was durning 7th gen console lifecycle.

Another example, and here i give u direct nvidia comparision, rumored(but basically certain) to be revealed in few days rtx 5090, new nvidia flagship gpu is supposed to have 600W powerdraw, im sure if nvidia could they wouldnt go above 450W like with 4090 but guess what- node shrinking got so slow that they need to make their new graphics card humongous both chip size and powerdraw to even have mild (30% improvement in raster most likely on avg) vs their previous BiS card.

Last comparision, just so u know how nasty it got, xbox 360, the launch model, was made on 90nm process node, ofc switch was faster and much more energy efficient, it was made on 20nm node after all

 

[Negotiator]

You guys talking Switch 2 BC really comes down to how much the avg Nintendo gamers cares for playing old games. Switch didn't do BC for Wii and Wii U digital games. Nobody cared. Different format too. Cant even play the new media either. Nobody cared again.

Best thing to do for Nintendo is dont support it, or else it'll be expected in all systems going forward to max out sales of new Marios and Mario Karts.

BC is confirmed by various sources.

Hell, there's even a motherboard photo with a Switch cartridge inserted...

Apart from that, Nintendo is not going to alienate Switch owners by not supporting their precious digital libraries.

We live in the era of digital ecosystems, so...

Even the 256GB NAND indicates that Nintendo wants people to buy/play digital games, unlike the small 32GB NAND on Switch 1.

Wii U had a totally different form factor and optical medium, so there's no comparison really. Nintendo is destined to stay with ARM/Nvidia for decades.

 

[Ogbert]

I suspect many will be just fine with a Switch 1

I'm actually curious how aggressive Nintendo will be on exclusives vs. simply doing cross-play.

Cross play?

Nintendo will do what they always do - churn out exclusives.

 

[Negotiator]

Not sure if this has been posted:

Sounds like Switch 2 games, at least from Nintendo, might still be fully available on-cart. Given that this is a patent that will actually be used.

Textures consume a lot of space.

Remember those rumors about Nvidia introducing neural rendering for textures?

There's a link which explains how they compress 256MB down to 4MB. 64 times smaller!

It could help both PC gamers with small VRAM and Switch 2 gamers with small cartridges.

So yeah, maybe RAM and ROM/NAND sizes won't matter at all for the Nvidia ecosystem...

 

[baphomet]

The amount of retardation in here is immense.

Thinking Nintendo is somehow using silicon from a nearly a decade in the future for the Switch 2.

 

[Astray]

The amount of retardation in here is immense.

Thinking Nintendo is somehow using silicon from a nearly a decade in the future for the Switch 2.

They probably used something that was 2 years old during the time they started working on Switch 2 (like 2021 or something).

Whatever will launch is not going to be a graphics powerhouse and will instead be carried by strong 3P support (particularly indies) and Nintendo exclusives, just like the Switch 1.

 

[Negotiator]

It's pretty amazing:

https://research.nvidia.com/labs/rtr/neural_texture_compression/

Switch 2 doesn't need raw power to compete, just smart tech.

Even on PCs, nVidia is more competitive vs AMD, despite boasting less TFlops.

 

[Luminoth-4545]

Open any Famitsu statistics for the last 2-3 years, Nintendo has practically squeezed out all competitors from the Japanese market, plus nowhere in the world are so many Switches sold as in Japan. And I can say with 200% certainty that they will not want to lose their positions in Japan and share the market with someone.

Aside from Nintendo's shipment data we also have Japan and United States sell through for calendar years (not fiscal). Figures are taken from Installbase and Neogaf that archive Famitsu and NPD/Circana data. I think the reason you may think Switch sells more in Japan is because most months it actually does but the U.S market is heavily tilted towards November and December for Switch, almost half of it's yearly total are from those 2 months and the reason the U.S market is bigger for Switch.

The Market

All active topics involving sales, industry news, financial reports, market research, predictions, and community hangouts.

www.installbaseforum.com

Media Create Sales: Archive Thread 2

2004 Media Create Sales: Week 01, 2004 (Jan 5 - Jan 11) Media Create Sales: Week 02, 2004 (Jan 12 - Jan 18) Media Create Sales: Week 03, 2004 (Jan 19 - Jan 25) Media Create Sales: Week 04, 2004 (Jan 26 - Feb 1) Media Create Sales: Week 05, 2004 (Feb 2 -...

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Famitsu Japan yearly sales for Switch (millions)

2017: 3.41
2018: 3.48
2019: 4.49
2020: 5.96
2021: 5.58
2022: 4.80
2023: 4.06
2024: 3.03 [1 Week remaining]
Total: 34.82

NPD/ Circana U.S yearly sales for Switch (millions)

2017: 4.87
2018: 5.64
2019: 6.48
2020: 8.98
2021: 7.61
2022: 5.83
2023: 4.78
2024: 2.41 [1 Month remaining]
Total: 46.60

 

[Kataploom]

Node shrinkening slowed down significantly from that time period, series s is on 7nm node already, bro, switch2 being on tnmsc 6nm(not even 3nm like apple phones) wont make it crazy more power efficient unfortunately.
Believe me, i want switch 2 to be as powerful as possible, hell i would gladly give up on handheld mode just so docked is comparable to series x/base ps5, but cant be helped, physics is a nasty cold biatch
U can see it in my post u quoted, compare ps5base vs slim version, slim has higher powerdraw, precisely coz node shrinking slowed down big time, unlike how it was durning 7th gen console lifecycle.

Another example, and here i give u direct nvidia comparision, rumored(but basically certain) to be revealed in few days rtx 5090, new nvidia flagship gpu is supposed to have 600W powerdraw, im sure if nvidia could they wouldnt go above 450W like with 4090 but guess what- node shrinking got so slow that they need to make their new graphics card humongous both chip size and powerdraw to even have mild (30% improvement in raster most likely on avg) vs their previous BiS card.

Last comparision, just so u know how nasty it got, xbox 360, the launch model, was made on 90nm process node, ofc switch was faster and much more energy efficient, it was made on 20nm node after all

I didn't mention node shrink, are you sure you quoted the right post?

 

[PeteBull]

I didn't mention node shrink, are you sure you quoted the right post?

Yes, u conviniently left out major difference between 90nm manufacturing process of x360 and 20nm manufacturing process of switch, which we wont have anymore in series s vs switch 2, difference in manufacturing process, that is crucial for powerdraw/performance ratio is very small between series s and switch2, while it was humongous between x360 and og switch, and that was major reason switch could be visibly more powerful from x360 even with its handheld powerdraw and formfactor.

From the leaks we got we know console is roughly on pair with ps4 when in handheld mode, ps4pr0 in docked mode( that doesnt mean exact exacly same tflop number on the gpu, switch2 will have weaker gpu, no doubts about it, just with much more modern features/archi it will be able to produce roughly similar quality of graphics).
Series S is stronger from ps4pr0 in every aspect, we know this not only by comparing specs, but by simply comparing same exact game that runs on both platforms, be it cp2077, hogwards legacy or jedi survivor, version for series S is always superior between those 2.
Switch2 will trade blows with ps4pr0 when docked, so will be 4sure weaker from series s, and it will be beyond any doubt.

 

[Solarstrike]

Is this good?

Comparable (if true) to an RTX 2080 or a stock PS4 if I'm not mistaken

 

[Shadowstar39]

uhh this is underwhelming, they must really want to hit that $400 price

its a nintendo console/portable hybrid. Its not a windows powerhouse, a psp or neo geo. They need to have the cost low, as

a. We are in a bad economy with horrible inflation and through the roof home, car and gas prices. This may not affect you but it affects most people who aren't wealthy, or people that are paying their own bills not living with mom and dad.
b. ITs a nintendo console/hybrid, needs to sell to most people.
c. It doesn't need the most raw power, it only needs to play ps4 level and have great battery life while keeping cost down. More power will bring the cost up and lower battery life
there is a trade off for portable devices (or any device really).

I don't understand why some people think this needs to compete with the ps5 or series x. Its a hybrid portable and its nintendo.

My biggest concern is it having complete backwards compatibility with digital games and physical carts.
Also that it is not too pricey.

 

[Astray]

My biggest concern is it having complete backwards compatibility with digital games and physical carts.
Also that it is not too pricey.

This part is already confirmed by their higher-ups.