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[Busty]

I think it's more accurate to say the public hasn't been introduced to Wii U yet.

Is it that they haven't been introduced yet..., or that they simply don't care? I don't understand how some people can claim that the WiiU is this 'diamond in the rough' just waiting to be discovered by the great unwashed masses.

Wii U cannot compare to Wii, the latter had a ton of free marketing thanks to motion gaming. Wii U is more conservative in this sense as tablets are already in the market. Nintendo has to show what the tablet brings in a Nintendo console and also show Wii U has all that was great fun with the Wii. Problem is with no games Nintendo cannot push for this. Interesting times ahead.

It seems to me that the inescapable fact of the matter is that the WiiU's Gamepad gimmick (for want of a better word) simply isn't as compelling or appealing as the simplicity of the Wiimote.

 

[megabytecr]

Is it that they haven't been introduced yet..., or that they simply don't care? I don't understand how some people can claim that the WiiU is this 'diamond in the rough' just waiting to be discovered by the great unwashed masses.



It seems to me that the inescapable fact of the matter is that the WiiU's Gamepad gimmick (for want of a better word) simply isn't as compelling or appealing as the simplicity of the Wiimote.

Yes, there is a big difference, but I would not call it a disaster yet without a big marketing push from Nintendo and more games that show of the gamepad. Also they have to market the thing as a Wii succesor, I mean it has all the functionality from Wii plus the gamepad.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Is it that they haven't been introduced yet..., or that they simply don't care? I don't understand how some people can claim that the WiiU is this 'diamond in the rough' just waiting to be discovered by the great unwashed masses.

To be fair, I think the GamePad could generate more interest with a better ad campaign and perhaps a better game than NintendoLand that really brings the "point" of the device together in one compelling package. But that said, I largely agree with you. I think the GamePad could be more popular than it is, but I'm very skeptical that we're a relaunch away from it being the hot toy next holiday season. Though there is plenty of confusion out there in regards to what it is (is it a controller for the Wii, is it the system, etc.), I think people know enough that if they really cared at all, they'd have figured out what it is in the last three months. While some of the apathy can rightly be blamed on the marketing, I think a fair amount of it can be levied against the product itself just in that it doesn't really have a clear purpose.

Is it a mobile device? I sure hope not given the limited range. Is it a DS on the big screen? Maybe, but I don't know if that's a good call, and there certainly isn't a lot of software out there doing much in the way of meaningfully taking advantage of it. Is it a tablet you can only use in your living room? Not really. And so on. It's got some neat ideas at work, but I don't think it ever really comes together to form a coherent vision for what it's really supposed to be. For instance, I like it most for its off-TV play, but that doesn't really seem like a great universal selling point for an HD console that connects to your TV, particularly given that it only works reliably in one room.

 

[spock]

Is it that they haven't been introduced yet..., or that they simply don't care? I don't understand how some people can claim that the WiiU is this 'diamond in the rough' just waiting to be discovered by the great unwashed masses.



It seems to me that the inescapable fact of the matter is that the WiiU's Gamepad gimmick (for want of a better word) simply isn't as compelling or appealing as the simplicity of the Wiimote.

Well there has been very little software shown or created for the broad market to make them care. Software is that introduction...

That majority of people dont buy anything on features they buy on the benefits of those features. Meaning what it will do for them or what they will experience in return for their investment. In gaming the tech side deliver the features while the software side deliver the benefits.

In regards to marketing, traditional advertising as it relates to gaming has ceiling of effectiveness when it comes to appealing to the broad market. Most gaming advertising works best when it comes to appealing to existing gamers and the core. In this day and age to capture broad market interest you need mass media, free PR and social/word of mouth to do the heavy lifting for you. (again this seems to be how it is for the gaming industry in particular)

That is harder to do. Currently the most effective way to do that is to strike a cord with the broad market using innovate software experiences. Thats what nintendo has to and I'm betting will do in the next 16-24 months.

I also think that whatever those games are, the core is going to dismiss as crap or gimmicky trash anyway. But media and sales will say otherwise.

 

[donny2112]

Maybe Activision or EA? It will certainly be interesting to see how they handle Call of Duty and Battlefield this year as they will both certainly be cross gen games like Watch Dogs.

Using EA as a barometer of third-parties on Wii U has no credibility with me. EA at best may come around to giving "cautiously optimistic" support to Wii U, and that's even if Wii U started selling like Wii and selling core games like 360 right now, which isn't happening. They will not be supporting Wii U as a market leader (even if it started selling like one magically), just as they never supported Wii as a market leader, despite their blatant lies to the contrary last gen.

EA Shift Focus to Wii

Shifting to Wii , RIP February 2009 - March 2009

he was a good and friendly shift

Now that the EA red herring is thrown out, yes, there is plenty of evidence that other third-parties are shifting away from the Wii U, and that's more than enough evidence for me. Using EA as a barometer lessens the point, in my opinion, since they're such a far out outlier when it comes to Nintendo support. Not sure how Criterion managed to buck the overall EA trend (though NFS is still 6 months after the other versions), but at least it shows that EA isn't completely monolithic.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Is it that they haven't been introduced yet..., or that they simply don't care? I don't understand how some people can claim that the WiiU is this 'diamond in the rough' just waiting to be discovered by the great unwashed masses.



It seems to me that the inescapable fact of the matter is that the WiiU's Gamepad gimmick (for want of a better word) simply isn't as compelling or appealing as the simplicity of the Wiimote.

It isn't. The Wii offered something that was completely fresh and new, no matter how gimmicky, and that could easily be demonstrated through something like Wii Sports. My 60 year old father had never touched a video game controller in his life. He learned how to play Wii Golf and Tennis in about 30 seconds. The tablet is no only not a new concept (people have been using touch screen phones and tablets for the last 5 years) but there is nothing about it that has the same kind of mainstream appeal and simplicity as Wii Sports did, and I don't think the concept lends itself to EVER have that kind of appeal.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I also think that whatever those games are, the core is going to dismiss as crap or gimmicky trash anyway. But media and sales will say otherwise.

So, your argument is predicated on the notion that two years after the launch of the Wii U, Nintendo will release a bunch of software that you can't even begin to guess at what it might be that will sell the GamePad and drive big numbers? That even though they've failed to do it at launch and showcase anything in the near term, they'll still be able to rely on the disruptive Wii playbook and dazzle people with heretofore unseen experiences? Okay...

 

[Busty]

Is it a mobile device? I sure hope not given the limited range. Is it a DS on the big screen? Maybe, but I don't know if that's a good call, and there certainly isn't a lot of software out there doing much in the way of meaningfully taking advantage of it. Is it a tablet you can only use in your living room? Not really. And so on. It's got some neat ideas at work, but I don't think it ever really comes together to form a coherent vision for what it's really supposed to be. For instance, I like it most for its off-TV play, but that doesn't really seem like a great universal selling point for an HD console that connects to your TV, particularly given that it only works reliably in one room.

This is a good point. In an effort to appeal to the audience that bought into the genius like simplicity of the Wii they have created a system in the WiiU that somehow manages to be more complex and difficult to pin down.

I'm always surprised when I read about WiiU owners on GAF using the Gamepad exclusively to play games as if it were a handheld. To me that just smacks mixed messages. Is it a home console or a handheld?

Personally I would NOT want to play my PS3 on a tablet style device in my living room. If I could take it to other side of the house then maybe but it's my understanding the 'roaming distance' on the WiiU isn't great.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. To me the WiiU appeals to everyone and no one.

That is harder to do. Currently the most effective way to do that is to strike a cord with the broad market using innovate software experiences. Thats what nintendo has to and I'm betting will do in the next 16-24 months.

While I don't disagree with you game consoles really have to burst out of the gate running and WiiU's slow start is going to be very difficult to turn around.

If things continue the way they are what do you think Nintendo will do with the WiiU in the next 16-24 months? I feel that time is a luxury that the WiiU doesn't have and by Xmas this year we'll see whether Nintendo simply turn the 'money hose' on the problem and use cash to solve the problem or whether they'll simply accept the WiiU as a 'misfire' and move on leaving the system to the select 3rd parties that will support and the Nintendo first party faithful like they did with the Gamecube.

 

[spock]

So, your argument is predicated on the notion that two years after the launch of the Wii U, Nintendo will release a bunch of software that you can't even begin to guess at what it might be that will sell the GamePad and drive big numbers? That even though they've failed to do it at launch and showcase anything in the near term, they'll still be able to rely on the disruptive Wii playbook and dazzle people with heretofore unseen experiences? Okay...

I'd say sometime between the next 16-24 months nintendo will have created AT LEAST 1 title (perhaps from multiple attempts) that will have broad market appeal, get a fair amount positive media and free PR and start pushing a good amount of units to that broad market.

During that period they will still sell the more traditional and predictable sellers, but reaching that audience is not their primary goal. Its a secondary on going goal while they work towards something that hooks into the broad market.

Edit: I cant guess at the software outside of structural qualities I think it will have. Simply because in most cases its something new, fresh and somewhat unexpected. That is part of what hooks into the broad market. A new experience. That doesn't mean the idea it self is new, but the positioning, approach and experience it self feels new and is perceived as new.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I'd say sometime between the next 16-24 months nintendo will have created AT LEAST 1 title (perhaps from multiple attempts) that will have broad market appeal, get a fair amount positive media and free PR and start pushing a good amount of units to that broad market.

During that period they will still sell the more traditional and predictable sellers, but reaching that audience is not their primary goal. Its a secondary on going goal while they work towards something that hooks into the broad market.

Personally, if it's strictly that kind of game that we're talking about, I'm skeptical that there's a real market for such a breakout hit. The idea that they can go back to the DS playbook and watch things take off due to efforts like Nintendogs and Brain Age just seems much less plausible in the post smart phone/tablet world. In terms of just making a game that showcases the possibilities of the tablet, it already exists. It's called NintendoLand, and it didn't drive sales.

 

[Busty]

I'd say sometime between the next 16-24 months nintendo will have created AT LEAST 1 title (perhaps from multiple attempts) that will have broad market appeal, get a fair amount positive media and free PR and start pushing a good amount of units to that broad market.

During that period they will still sell the more traditional and predictable sellers, but reaching that audience is not their primary goal. Its a secondary on going goal while they work towards something that hooks into the broad market.

Again I just don't understand how you can claim with authority that Nintendo will develop a game that will not only become a massive break out hit but really shift units of the WiiU.

Is this some kind of odds calculation that if Nintendo throw enough shit at the wall (crude I know) some of it will stick? Nintendo have a great portfolio of first party developers so they can produce a great game...., in theory. But can they really make it some kind of gaming phenomena to turn the fortunes of the unit around when they couldn't do such a thing for the Gamecube or the Wii later in it's life?

 

[Dreaver]

So hypothetical: let's say the Wii U will continue to sell terrible and the average for the next 24 months won't be above 100k~/month. Nintendo decides to go handheld only, do you guys think that's profitable for them enough? I know the chances of this situation are very slim, but I'm just wondering if the handheld market is profitable enough for them? I have seen quite some posts implying that the 3Ds isn't doing that good (decent in Japan and bad in the west). I'm just really wondering this.

My guess for Nintendo is that they'll 'relaunch' near the end of the year with a cheaper SKU combined with a game and a lot of system sellers on the horizon (Mario Kart, Super Smash, 3d Mario). Re-market the shit out of it. As stated a million times before there's almost zero reason to own a Wii U right now. I bet it's just a waste of money to market the system right now with the next gen hype and nothing on the horizon. The new Xbox and Playstation 4 will steal the headlines for the coming months anyways.

 

[Kai Dracon]

So hypothetical: let's say the Wii U will continue to sell terrible and the average for the next 24 months won't be above 100k~/month. Nintendo decides to go handheld only, do you guys think that's profitable for them enough? I know the chances of this situation are very slim, but I'm just wondering if the handheld market is profitable enough for them? I have seen quite some posts implying that the 3Ds isn't doing that good (decent in Japan and bad in the west). I'm just really wondering this.

My guess for Nintendo is that they'll 'relaunch' near the end of the year with a cheaper SKU combined with a game and a lot of system sellers on the horizon (Mario Kart, Super Smash, 3d Mario). Re-market the shit out of it. As stated a million times before there's almost zero reason to own a Wii U right now. I bet it's just a waste of money to market the system right now with the next gen hype and nothing on the horizon. The new Xbox and Playstation 4 will steal the headlines for the coming months anyways.

I think much of the rational for Nintendo going handheld only is that all of their IP and development resources would be concentrated in one location. More or less Nintendo 1st party armageddon.

The way the mobile space is evolving though, a "handheld" in five years time could be indistinguishable from tablet devices and a primary game market. Nintendo would then face full competition from the wider mobile and table market for all of their earnings. Perhaps they could carve out their niche with all resources focused on that alone.

 

[Busty]

My guess for Nintendo is that they'll 'relaunch' near the end of the year with a cheaper SKU combined with a game and a lot of system sellers on the horizon (Mario Kart, Super Smash, 3d Mario). Re-market the shit out of it. As stated a million times before there's almost zero reason to own a Wii U right now. I bet it's just a waste of money to market the system right now with the next gen hype and nothing on the horizon. The new Xbox and Playstation 4 will steal the headlines for the coming months anyways.

I don't understand why people keep using the word 'relaunch' when talking about the WiiU. There is no such thing as a relaunch for a console already released. As I said before it's not as if the WiiU is some great secret that the public don't know about.

All Nintendo can do is throw more marketing dollars at the console and see if it gains any more traction with a particular title or if it can reach a new (family?) audience.

Come Xmas they'll have to compete against the PS4 and Durango and it means that Nintendo might have to change tact and perhaps chase another audience all together otherwise they might got lost in the 'gen 8' hype machine altogether.

 

[spock]

Personally, if it's strictly that kind of game that we're talking about, I'm skeptical that there's a real market for such a breakout hit. The idea that they can go back to the DS playbook and watch things take off due to efforts like Nintendogs and Brain Age just seems much less plausible in the post smart phone/tablet world. In terms of just making a game that showcases the possibilities of the tablet, it already exists. It's called NintendoLand, and it didn't drive sales.

Nintendoland showcased the tablet but fundemntally it doesnt have that new/innovative quality to it. To me Its more of a bridge title to potentially appeal to wii owners who are gamers but not necessarly the core. I dont think it was designed to have the same level broad market appeal that were discussing.

The thing is their past playbook is strong indicator not of their success per say but of their future potential actions. Odds are there going to try and repeat what works for them. Again they dont need a single huge breakout. To start they need 1 moderate breakout in the causal space. They can build from there.

AS I mentioned earlier the advantage of creating these types of games is fro ma development stand point they are cheaper and faster to produce. They can take more swings at the bat dollar for dollar and hour for hour in contrast to producing a core gamer game with big budget visuals.

Again I just don't understand how you can claim with authority that Nintendo will develop a game that will not only become a massive break out hit but really shift units of the WiiU.

Is this some kind of odds calculation that if Nintendo throw enough shit at the wall (crude I know) some of it will stick? Nintendo have a great portfolio of first party developers so they can produce a great game...., in theory. But can they really make it some kind of gaming phenomena to turn the fortunes of the unit around when they couldn't do such a thing for the Gamecube or the Wii later in it's life?

Dude, look at nintendos own track record in the wii/ds era. The are the only developer to create casual market success on multiple occasions. So yes, there is probability element to it. They have the best odds in the business of doing this. They have the most success, experience and a platform they designed with this exact idea in mind.

Does any of the above guarantee anything? No. But the evidence outside based on their history and what they have said and done is much more telling then all the doom and gloom bs based on poor sales so early in the life cycle.

People seem to be contrasting things to the past, which is fine but your contrasting it to past that was focused mostly on targeting the core gamer crowd with core games. This is not the same thing. The rules are different and not completely known yet. But the core foundation driving nintendo is aligned with a particular goal. (grab new and existing parts of the potential expanded audience)

The path to success with their approach is different, which means the measurements and time frames most here are working with while valid are limited since there are some different variables & strategies at play. (some known and some unknown)

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

I think much of the rational for Nintendo going handheld only is that all of their IP and development resources would be concentrated in one location. More or less Nintendo 1st party armageddon.

The way the mobile space is evolving though, a "handheld" in five years time could be indistinguishable from tablet devices and a primary game market. Nintendo would then face full competition from the wider mobile and table market for all of their earnings. Perhaps they could carve out their niche with all resources focused on that alone.

Nintendo's next hardware product is likely to be a full blown phone/tablet coming in different sizes. The normal size would be like a decent sized smart phone . The XL would be like a small tablet. For each size they could have a wifi only version as well as 4g version similar to many of the tablets today. They could use the foldable screens that samsung is showing now at the Mobile Word Congress to keep the clamshell style. It would look something like the Galaxy Q.

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...laxy-q-smartphone-could-unfold-at-mwc-1129279

 

[spock]

I don't understand why people keep using the word 'relaunch' when talking about the WiiU. There is no such thing as a relaunch for a console already released. As I said before it's not as if the WiiU is some great secret that the public don't know about.

All Nintendo can do is throw more marketing dollars at the console and see if it gains any more traction with a particular title or if it can reach a new (family?) audience.

Come Xmas they'll have to compete against the PS4 and Durango and it means that Nintendo might have to change tact and perhaps chase another audience all together otherwise they might got lost in the 'gen 8' hype machine altogether.

Why is there no such thing as a relaunch for a console? Is that some kind of commandment of the moses of gaming? Business is business. Relaunches can be an effective strategy for any product and are done ALL THE TIME in multiple spaces. You seem stuck on the idea that if its not how we have done it in the last 15 years then its wrong or cant be done.

That's dinosaur thinking dude.

You do realize that just launching a big enough game creates the effect of a mini relaunch? Its why we see bumps in sales when big games come out and draw in new buyers. What folks are talking about with nintendo is the same idea just expanded out abit.

You not only release a new game, you combine it with pr and media to sell the system it self. You modify existing perceptions or create new perception where non existed.

 

[jvm]

Just looking at consumer reaction (sales), the 40GB PS3 and Xbox 360 S model were both relaunches. My humble opinion, of course.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

I find it hard to speculate about the Wii U sales this holiday in part because the console simply isn't finished. And I don't mean the software library - The OS was rushed and is still unfinished, important apps are missing (and several current apps aren’t good), it still doesn't have a real virtual console store, the eShop is barren and poorly organized, Miiverse could be a lot better, an actual accounts system would be nice, better connectivity with the 3DS is needed, the Wii U is still missing numerous settings options, etc...

Honestly things could go either way. The system on sale later this year could be great or it could be barely better than what it is now. I will say in the few weeks I've had one some things have gotten better. Miiverse is adding options and the eShop is better organized

Games are part of it, but it’s not the only thing the Wii U needs IMO. That said, no matter what happens I agree that N64 numbers is the high end scenario for the Wii U

 

[Dreaver]

I don't understand why people keep using the word 'relaunch' when talking about the WiiU. There is no such thing as a relaunch for a console already released. As I said before it's not as if the WiiU is some great secret that the public don't know about.

All Nintendo can do is throw more marketing dollars at the console and see if it gains any more traction with a particular title or if it can reach a new (family?) audience.

Come Xmas they'll have to compete against the PS4 and Durango and it means that Nintendo might have to change tact and perhaps chase another audience all together otherwise they might got lost in the 'gen 8' hype machine altogether.

What I mean with relaunch is lower the price / add a game to the SKU with a massive (understandable) marketing campaign including a decent line-up for the next months. Not a 'real' relaunch but it's the best word the describe what I mean.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Just looking at consumer reaction (sales), the 40GB PS3 and Xbox 360 S model were both relaunches. My humble opinion, of course.

I would say the PS3-2000 model was the the relaunch. $299, a slimmer design, more aligned with PlayStation branding than with Spider-Man. The 40GB was just a price cut rather than a full relaunch.

 

[jvm]

I would say the PS3-2000 model was the the relaunch. $299, a slimmer design, more aligned with PlayStation branding than with Spider-Man. The 40GB was just a price cut rather than a full relaunch.

After sales in 2007, people figured Wii > Xbox 360 > PS3 for a long time. Then PS3 > Xbox 360 several times in 2008, IIRC. So I think it did a lot to ameliorate the situation.

That said, you're right that getting the $300 model out there was a huge boost. I should revisit the figures again.

 

[onipex]

Nintendoland showcased the tablet but fundemntally it doesnt have that new/innovative quality to it. To me Its more of a bridge title to potentially appeal to wii owners who are gamers but not necessarly the core. I dont think it was designed to have the same level broad market appeal that were discussing.

The thing is their past playbook is strong indicator not of their success per say but of their future potential actions. Odds are there going to try and repeat what works for them. Again they dont need a single huge breakout. To start they need 1 moderate breakout in the causal space. They can build from there.

AS I mentioned earlier the advantage of creating these types of games is fro ma development stand point they are cheaper and faster to produce. They can take more swings at the bat dollar for dollar and hour for hour in contrast to producing a core gamer game with big budget visuals.



Dude, look at nintendos own track record in the wii/ds era. The are the only developer to create casual market success on multiple occasions. So yes, there is probability element to it. They have the best odds in the business of doing this. They have the most success, experience and a platform they designed with this exact idea in mind.

Does any of the above guarantee anything? No. But the evidence outside based on their history and what they have said and done is much more telling then all the doom and gloom bs based on poor sales so early in the life cycle.

People seem to be contrasting things to the past, which is fine but your contrasting it to past that was focused mostly on targeting the core gamer crowd with core games. This is not the same thing. The rules are different and not completely known yet. But the core foundation driving nintendo is aligned with a particular goal. (grab new and existing parts of the potential expanded audience)

The path to success with their approach is different, which means the measurements and time frames most here are working with while valid are limited since there are some different variables & strategies at play. (some known and some unknown)

As someone that thought the launch would do fine because it launched with a sequel to a 20 million plus selling title I just don't see what Nintendo can pull out that could have even moderate appeal if it is not something new. Nintendoland is sort of new and fun but it is not catching one. This could partly due to Nintendo screwing up the marketing or the game just has a niche appeal. The only other software shown so far that could have that type of hook are more sequels with Wii Fit being the big one. I Agee that Nintendo has shown that they put out mainstream hit many times in the past, but they had just as many misses. Even during the Wii/DS era they managed to release games aimed at that audience that just never caught on.

In other news I just remembered that they released the ZombiU bundle in the US but I haven't seen any commercials to push it. I haven't seen any Wii U commercials period. I wonder if they are just on their hands until E3.

 

[megabytecr]

Think about it, the tablet in itself is not as innovative as motion controls were. But I think asymetric gameplay really is innovative and when even my kids 6, 8 and 14 pick it up so naturally and really enjoy themselves that much. They are always asking me to play with them Mario Chase and Luigis Mansion. The gamepad makes the games more fun and not repetitive as you get to experience tha same game in different ways. The problem is that people have to actually play it for themselves to actually see the hook as with Wii you just watch some imaginary people playing on a white background and get it.

Wii U launch really shows how 3rd party is really playing it safe. Asymetric gameplay is huge, imagine a coop game where the experience really changes a lot based on what controller you are using. Imagine an open world game where one player has to be someplace else in the world or execute other task but in the end both are playing for the same goal and both players have to sync their actions for the mission to succed. This is just coop, imagine other competitive asymetric ideas or suplementary roles another player can experience.

Nintendo Land was a sneak peak at possible asymetric gameplay options, but I would love 3rd partys would take a risk and build asymetric gameplay into their projects or new games.

 

[spock]

As someone that thought the launch would do fine because it launched with a sequel to a 20 million plus selling title I just don't see what Nintendo can pull out that could have even moderate appeal if it is not something new. Nintendoland is sort of new and fun but it is not catching one. This could partly due to Nintendo screwing up the marketing or the game just has a niche appeal. The only other software shown so far that could have that type of hook are more sequels with Wii Fit being the big one. I Agee that Nintendo has shown that they put out mainstream hit many times in the past, but they had just as many misses. Even during the Wii/DS era they managed to release games aimed at that audience that just never caught on.

In other news I just remembered that they released the ZombiU bundle in the US but I haven't seen any commercials to push it. I haven't seen any Wii U commercials period. I wonder if they are just on their hands until E3.

Indeed. Again i see nintendoland as one of those games trying to move people to more core like titles and show case some of the system.

I also agree about the misses. I also have no doubt they will release more then 1 casual focused game that flops for the wiiu. But that's part of the strategy I was talking about. They can probably give themselves an 80% chance of success with at least 1 broad market tittle just by releasing say 5 new titles to the broad market. Those 3-4 initial flops are less of a problem because development time and costs are not as high compared to core gamer games. They can afford it and actually strategize around it because of that fact.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo understands that perceived "newness" is a key. The fact they designed a new input mechanism for their console and made it a focal point once again is indicative of this. Otherwise they would have just stuck with something closer to an upgraded wiimote and nun chuck or traditional control mechanism.

This is a new paradigm. Unlike the core, its very unlikely you will tap the broad market if you just focus on the visual aspect of the gaming medium. (unless your talking occulus rift type stuff). This is why MS is hedging in kinnect. It will be interesting how that plays out. Kinnect is something thats not new, but the type of technology allows for potential new experiences that may or may not generate that "newness" factor. Its all in the perception and interpretation the user experience they generate. Personally I think its going to hit the middle ground. Enough newness to capture parts of the broad market especially when combined with media features.

But I dont think it has wii like potential. But that does not appear to be MS's strategy anyway.

 

[donny2112]

Just looking at consumer reaction (sales), the 40GB PS3 and Xbox 360 S model were both relaunches. My humble opinion, of course.

40GB PS3 was more impacted by just being $400 vs. the $500/$600 that it launched at. Therefore the increased sales had more to do with the price than a relaunch of the system, in my opinion. Would lean more toward official remodels being more "relaunches" in that case. PSOne, PSTwo (the slim one w/o HDD bay), PS3Slim, and 360Slim (aided by Kinect later in the same year), along with DSLite, and GBASP, for the handhelds. Basically something to get the initial owners to buy the effectively same system again (which would exclude DSi from the comparison, since it could play unique games in DSiWare). From that perspective, Wii U doesn't look likely to have a real "relaunch" since Nintendo tends not to redesign their consoles mid-generation. That just leaves it hoping for a 40GB PS3-type "price drop boost" along with some games to be released.

Edit:
While the main hardware doesn't leave a lot of room to be "slimmed", a redesign of the GamePad might qualify. Change the screen (quality and/or size, while keeping resolution the same), improve the battery life, etc. Then they could resell just the GamePad to existing owners, while not actually changing what games could be played. A GamePad redesign would be more than just a conventional controller redesign in price and in use, for reference. Just a thought, anyways.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I also agree about the misses. I also have no doubt they will release more then 1 casual focused game that flops for the wiiu. But that's part of the strategy I was talking about. They can probably give themselves an 80% chance of success with at least 1 broad market tittle just by releasing say 5 new titles to the broad market. Those 3-4 initial flops are less of a problem because development time and costs are not as high compared to core gamer games. They can afford it and actually strategize around it because of that fact.

I really can't say that I put a lot of stock in your blind faith analysis here that, so long as they keep spitballing, they're sure to strike gold on some wacky, innovative title. And I think the reason why I'm so skeptical is just that -- contrary to what proponents think -- I don't think that the Wii U truly brings anything new to the table in terms of game design possibilities. The DS has been around for 9 years. Tablets and smartphones have been making huge strides since 2007 (or 2010 for the iPad) in terms of catching on with the mainstream success. The "asymmetrical multiplayer" push as demonstrated in NintendoLand doesn't really create any sort of unique experiences that can't be replicated online.

The specific implementation with how the Wii U works is rather unique, but ultimately it's not doing anything that hasn't been done before. Not that there aren't always fresh new ideas to think of on any platform that can qualify as real gamechangers, but I don't think that the Wii U's GamePad really presents as many brand new opportunities for really thinking outside the box as some suspect.

 

[AzaK]

Actually I think they are banking on a casual runaway hit again. We just havent seen their attempts at hitting those kinds of targets yet. All it takes 1 game to hook into the broad market and begin the mass media attention grab. My gut tells me they have mutiple unannouced NEW IP's designed for just this. While they cant gurantee each one will be that kind of hit, they can greatly increase thier odds by simply making multiple new ip's to capture that market.

Thay have a proven track record of ability to do this on 2 platforms. Honestly its just a matter of attempts and time.

A price cut, etc are all secondary to their success. They need to capture lightening in a bottle again and the wiiu is their lightening rod.

Sequals to existing IP's will move units but that will only help with their core and expanded core. The broad market is most likely not buying a new console for any sequal IMO. The broad market will buy something if it its the new "thing". For that Nintendo needs a fresh angle and that is what the wiiu gives them in the context of a game development canvas.

I personally feel Nintendo is going to do quite well sometime in the next 24 months. People are calling them out cause they did not hit wii like success out the gate. Well know one said they had to launch with wii like success. They have time to get there. The console is brand new.

I think they may or may not hit wii levels but I think they will indeed be on the same trajactory at some point and begin massivly outsell the comeptition. Its just a matter of time & attempts...(broad market apeal software)

If they're gambling on a casual hit then they're no better than some idiot who goes to the poker machines expecting to win the jackpot. They need to get their known games out, fast. They need to get core gamers buying the machine to get word of mouth. They need third parties to release games. Then, maybe they'll get the cherry on top in the form of a casual hit.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I don't think Nintendo is banking on another casual hit, in the way that is sometimes defined: as a true "fad" with "non-gamers" that is by nature not really directly repeatable.

That they went so far out of their way to fold Wii support into the system, including not abandoning the Wii interface (wii remote, balance board, etc), makes me think they're fishing for a bridge audience between so-called casual (which has become the mainstream, playing games on every mobile device, tablet, browser) and core audiences. Even if Nintendoland isn't doing the trick yet, the director of Nintendoland stated as much: looking for a balance between overly simplistic games and games that would be considered oriented at enthusiasts or 'hardcore'.

Nintendo seems a lot more concerned about the long-term viability of gaming-focused hardware products and about there being an audience that sees the value in them. Their concerns could turn out to have merely been ahead of the curve (and regardless of whether they personally benefit from any potential solutions.)

 

[jvm]

40GB PS3 was more impacted by just being $400 vs. the $500/$600 that it launched at. Therefore the increased sales had more to do with the price than a relaunch of the system, in my opinion. Would lean more toward official remodels being more "relaunches" in that case. PSOne, PSTwo (the slim one w/o HDD bay), PS3Slim, and 360Slim (aided by Kinect later in the same year), along with DSLite, and GBASP, for the handhelds. Basically something to get the initial owners to buy the effectively same system again (which would exclude DSi from the comparison, since it could play unique games in DSiWare). From that perspective, Wii U doesn't look likely to have a real "relaunch" since Nintendo tends not to redesign their consoles mid-generation. That just leaves it hoping for a 40GB PS3-type "price drop boost" along with some games to be released.

Edit:
While the main hardware doesn't leave a lot of room to be "slimmed", a redesign of the GamePad might qualify. Change the screen (quality and/or size, while keeping resolution the same), improve the battery life, etc. Then they could resell just the GamePad to existing owners, while not actually changing what games could be played. A GamePad redesign would be more than just a conventional controller redesign in price and in use, for reference. Just a thought, anyways.

Good pionts all, donny2112. The DSi is pretty close to a relaunch, and did help sustain the system for another year, minimum.

If they did offer a new GamePad, would it be usable with the older one? I haven't kept up with whether anything is being done on supporting more than one GamePad per system.

 

[spock]

I really can't say that I put a lot of stock in your blind faith analysis here that, so long as they keep spitballing, they're sure to strike gold on some wacky, innovative title. And I think the reason why I'm so skeptical is just that -- contrary to what proponents think -- I don't think that the Wii U truly brings anything new to the table in terms of game design possibilities. The DS has been around for 9 years. Tablets and smartphones have been making huge strides since 2007 (or 2010 for the iPad) in terms of catching on with the mainstream success. The "asymmetrical multiplayer" push as demonstrated in NintendoLand doesn't really create any sort of unique experiences that can't be replicated online.

The specific implementation with how the Wii U works is rather unique, but ultimately it's not doing anything that hasn't been done before. Not that there aren't always fresh new ideas to think of on any platform that can qualify as real gamechangers, but I don't think that the Wii U's GamePad really presents as many brand new opportunities for really thinking outside the box as some suspect.

Well time will tell. My so called blind faith is more or less based on direct & indirect evidence based their current and past actions & results. Obviously nothing is guaranteed but I think the odds on the whole are in their favor.

If they're gambling on a casual hit then they're no better than some idiot who goes to the poker machines expecting to win the jackpot. They need to get their known games out, fast. They need to get core gamers buying the machine to get word of mouth. They need third parties to release games. Then, maybe they'll get the cherry on top in the form of a casual hit.

First your using "all or nothing". Trying to create titles with the intent to hook in the expanded market is not gambling. Its just a new business model they have been evolving from the last generation. Its more of a calculated risk with statistical odds from that past performance putting the odds of success in their favor. Calculated risk is pretty much part of who nintendo is these days.

What you seem to not realize is that if nintnedo put most of its focus on appealing to its core or the core audience in general then they almost guarantee that they lose this generation. Sure they will have some level of success but the upside of satisfying the core audience especially for nintendo is limited. Your basically telling them to revert to the n64 days intentionally.

Of course they need to feed the core but its very clear that due to the current gaming landscape and competition the core audience while growing, is growing slowly. But the bigger problem is that the core is being split up among to many platforms and this is becoming more and more of a problem. They cannot sustain any growth targeting the core. In reality this goes for all console makers. If they just focus on delivering only core games to the core audience. There business will shrink and decline even if they do well in general.

Its a numbers game.

You cant just sell to your crowd any more. Expanding your customer base is a requirement going forward due to environment. This goes for all the players.

If we work with your so called gambling reference, it still makes sense for nintendo to dedicate a good amount of resources on that gamble. As i've said the odds are in their favor in creating those kind of titles moreso then any other developer. The time and money required in executing this model is minimal to low in contrast to core gamer type games. Its the type of gamble that makes sense.

 

[Fantastical]

What if Nintendo brought back the "We Would Like to Play", but made it "Wii U Would Like To Play" as part of a larger effort to relaunch their console against PS4/720 this holiday. If they dropped the price, made some great bundles, showed Wii Fit U, Mario games, new games that will be out this year, etc. I think there is the chance of having some great sales.

Maybe that's not the best idea though, I don't know. I just think there would be something powerful by hearing that music again and "Wii U Would Like to Play".

 

[metalslimer]

What if Nintendo brought back the "We Would Like to Play", but made it "Wii U Would Like To Play" as part of a larger effort to relaunch their console against PS4/720 this holiday. If they dropped the price, made some great bundles, showed Wii Fit U, Mario games, new games that will be out this year, etc. I think there is the chance of having some great sales.

Maybe that's not the best idea though, I don't know. I just think there would be something powerful by hearing that music again and "Wii U Would Like to Play".

Wii U would like to play sounds pretty terrible. Wii Would Like To Play....with U is also cheesy but sounds better emphasizing the social aspect of the console. Of course, it could come across as desperate and tacky and it also might just increase the confusion around the console being a Wii add on.

 

[Fantastical]

Wii U would like to play sounds pretty terrible. Wii Would Like To Play....with U is also cheesy but sounds better emphasizing the social aspect of the console. Of course, it could come across as desperate and tacky and it also might just increase the confusion around the console being a Wii add on.

Yeah I was thinking that at this point they might want to dissociate with Wii as much as possible.

 

[metalslimer]

Yeah I was thinking that at this point they might want to dissociate with Wii as much as possible.

Which is basically impossible due to the continued use of Wiimotes and the biggest one: the name. With the name being what it is, Nintendo is going to have a really hard time showing most people that the system is new. I honestly don't know how they could have thought not just putting a simple 2 on the end would be the end of the world but here we are.

 

[donny2112]

If they did offer a new GamePad, would it be usable with the older one? I haven't kept up with whether anything is being done on supporting more than one GamePad per system.

Yeah, they'll eventually support two GamePads per system (halving the framerate to 30 fps). Was thinking more like a replacement pad, and sell the old one (in case someone damaged theirs or wanted a used second pad for cheaper), but just outright buying a second pad (and only a second; no 3+ pad plans) would work, too.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The things, Nintendo has done it more then once. Enough to at least indicate some level of probability that their is strctural awarness in how they create those type of games. There is no other developer who has had as many broad market hits as Nintendo has. That is quite powerful and insightful.

Sony managed twice to capture about 3/4 of the games market, and it's a feat they'll never replicate. History can only tell us so much, as times change. There has been no "breakout hit" for the 3DS as far as I can tell. And so far as I can see, Nintendo Land was meant to be that drawcard on the Wii U.

The blue ocean is no longer blue.

Unless we are talking of crazy mega hits numbers of some DS/Wii games with that 'broad'

I thought we were, as I don't think anything short of that will provide a reversal of current fortune.

Just like the PS3, amirite?

The PS3 never in its entire lifetime has slumped to the low of 57K in the US.
The PS3 was $599, an easily identified deterrent to strong sales.
It, again, had the weight of the entire industry behind it; without which a recovery never would have occurred.

If you want an analog, look at Vita and then add Nintendo's first party strength. Or see the GCN.

Nintendoland showcased the tablet but fundemntally it doesnt have that new/innovative quality to it.

Perhaps, just maybe, because the tablet isn't fundamentally that new or innovative.

 

[big youth]

a lot of stupid ideas swirling around in this topic. Nintendo isn't going to drop the gamepad. it's the console's defining feature. games are out that use it, and games are in development that use it. it's a lot of peoples favorite thing about the console. Nintendo wants to avoid consumer confusion, not add to it.

the idea that Nintendo could choose to drop out of the console race is equally dumb. it would significantly weaken their brand, they'd lose talented employees, they'd stop making money on hardware, they'd be paying royalty fees rather than getting them (from 3rd parties), and worst of all they would be forfeiting all potential future profit in a growing market.

a lot of people quoted me saying "I think it's more accurate to say the public hasn't been introduced to Wii U yet." if you don't agree just ask around. I'd wager the majority of Americans still don't know, at least that's been my experience, and it's no surprise considering the lack of advertising.

 

[ffdgh]

Still getting updates yet no 3ds numbers? C'mon nintendo release them already.

Oh and go ps3 ofcourse.

 

[Version 3.0]

Even if Nintendoland isn't doing the trick yet, the director of Nintendoland stated as much: looking for a balance between overly simplistic games and games that would be considered oriented at enthusiasts or 'hardcore'.

If there's any logic to their decision of a target audience (always questionable with Nintendo), that would be it - that they should be targeting "former casuals", for lack of a better term; Wii owners who are in the market for games that are fun, but are now ready for games more complex than Wii Fit, Wii Sports, etc. Games like New Super Mario Bros (which they'd presumably played on Wii, and would want more) and Nintendo Land.

But they also seem to have assumed that they'd buy a Wii U, that they'd buy it for $400, and that they'd be aware of these games and the new system at all. All of those assumptions are now obviously not true, or at least partly so.

I guess they figured Zombi U and NSMBU would also attract the "core" gamers, along with the ports. Also clearly didn't happen.

 

[Cheebo]

Still getting updates yet no 3ds numbers? C'mon nintendo release them already.

Oh and go ps3 ofcourse.

We got 3DS numbers, about 140k. Nintendo wouldn't put them in a PR release because 3DS did pretty bad in Jan.

 

[ffdgh]

We got 3DS numbers, about 140k. Nintendo wouldn't put them in a PR release because 3DS did pretty bad in Jan.

Ahh thanks for the info.

...Owning most of the market is bad? but I digress since I'm clueless to economics.

140 seems good with a lack of new games at the time.

 

[Version 3.0]

a lot of stupid ideas swirling around in this topic. Nintendo isn't going to drop the gamepad. it's the console's defining feature. games are out that use it, and games are in development that use it. it's a lot of peoples favorite thing about the console. Nintendo wants to avoid consumer confusion, not add to it.

the idea that Nintendo could choose to drop out of the console race is equally dumb. it would significantly weaken their brand, they'd lose talented employees, they'd stop making money on hardware, they'd be paying royalty fees rather than getting them (from 3rd parties), and worst of all they would be forfeiting all potential future profit in a growing market.

a lot of people quoted me saying "I think it's more accurate to say the public hasn't been introduced to Wii U yet." if you don't agree just ask around. I'd wager the majority of Americans still don't know, at least that's been my experience, and it's no surprise considering the lack of advertising.

I don't think any of the ideas floated so far are as dumb as naming the thing "Wii U" instead of "Wii 2". Brainstorming is the right thing to do in these circumstances. Ideas like re-naming the Gamepad itself the "Wii U" and rebranding the console as "Wii 2", or shrinking the Gamepad screen to offer a cheaper unit, are a bit radical, but I like that type of thinking at this point.

 

[Version 3.0]

Ahh thanks for the info.

...Owning most of the market is bad? but I digress since I'm clueless to economics.

140 seems good with a lack of new games at the time.

Significantly down from last year is always considered bad in business, even though that's overly simplistic and silly.

 

[pieatorium]

Ahh thanks for the info.

...Owning most of the market is bad? but I digress since I'm clueless to economics.

140 seems good with a lack of new games at the time.

Um 3ds, wii and WiiU combined is probably lower than just the 360. Don't see how you can come to owning most of the market from those figures.

 

[big youth]

I don't think any of the ideas floated so far are as dumb as naming the thing "Wii U" instead of "Wii 2". Brainstorming is the right thing to do in these circumstances. Ideas like re-naming the Gamepad itself the "Wii U" and rebranding the console as "Wii 2", or shrinking the Gamepad screen to offer a cheaper unit, are a bit radical, but I like that type of thinking at this point.

is there any precedent for renaming a console (and the controller) this far after launch? I agree Wii U is a bad name, but don't see how Wii 2 is much better. Nintendo was smart to keep Wii in the name, given how strong the brand is.

Spending more money to develop and manufacture a smaller gamepad makes no sense to me. It would confuse retailers and consumers, and probably not save Nintendo any money when all is said and done. It seems you guys are looking for problems where they don't exist. Nintendo has the right idea in that they plan to have large advertising campaigns coinciding with their major game releases.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Nintendo was smart to keep Wii in the name, given how strong the brand is.

They left the brand to die for 2 years and expected it to still carry weight. Then thought it would be good to differentiate a new system with a meaningless letter. :/

 

[friz898]

lol well I didn't buy the Atari Jaguar because of how it looked...but I won't deny that I felt that the reg Jaguar logo, the Do the Math ads, and overall Atari attitude was icing on the cake with how the console looked.

At the time, the other new console was the 3DO and that did NOT look as cool.

 

[H_Prestige]

How will nintendo deal with the price issue? The system needs to be $200/250. They can't really slim down the console. The gamepad is a fixed cost. They really kind of fucked themselves with the gamepad. What was their cost reduction strategy on that thing?

 

[prag16]

How will nintendo deal with the price issue? The system needs to be $200/250. They can't really slim down the console. The gamepad is a fixed cost. They really kind of fucked themselves with the gamepad. What was their cost reduction strategy on that thing?

Uh, parts get cheaper over time? Like with everything else? It's not rocket science. It's this type of armchair analysis that makes these topics full of garbage.