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Sonys comments seem to get smaller as the months go on, they cant even use the usual year over year growth comment anymore

 

[LosDaddie]

I think the problem is that folks are putting too much faith in PS3 exclusives being system sellers when looking at sales of the system they really aren't. People are buying new systems mostly for third party games.

Indeed. This really should be clear to all by now.

To a certain extent, yes. But not to live and die by. I don't know if you noticed, but whether the PS3 sells good its always shrugged off because its not on PS2's level. The PS2 sold a ton, everybody knows that, let the PS3 stand on its own. .

But this is a sales thread. Again, it's the norm for sales to be judged on past precedent. These consoles don't exist in a vacuum. It's exactly why the 3DS was said to have a bad launch. And I guarantee the Vita will be compared to the PSP

 

[Massa]

I think the problem is that folks are putting too much faith in PS3 exclusives being system sellers when looking at sales of the system they really aren't. People are buying new systems mostly for third party games.

Who are these folks?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

The disparity in hardware sales between PS3 & 360 is wild. 14% YOY increase vs 5% decrease? Damn.

Also, one had a price cut and one didn't.

Right, that forward thinking set of decisions helped immensely, but would mean nothing in the end if MS hadn't continually been a good steward of their platform by always evolving it, even seven fucking years into its lifespan. Sony and Ninty need to learn this from MS if they want to be nimble enough to react to the competition and the market's desires.

There is also the fact that MS keeps adding features to their hardware and OS where as Sony keeps removing features.

Late launch compared to the competition, repeated inferior third party inferior versions of games, poor online system for the first year or so, and many other problems were the fatal problem. Playing catchup for an entire gen when you were the runaway winner with the hands down best console the gen before is not good.

Yeah, there wer a number of factors that produced the perfect storm for them.

 

[LosDaddie]

Right so read what I said, you in all seriousness think there would still be a gap of 11+ million between 360 and PS3 had the PS3 not released at $600? I would have thought what I said was pointing out the obvious .

What's obvious is that the ps3 wouldn't be the same console if it launched at a cheaper price.

 

[pixelbox]

are you implying 360 is a platform for shooters while PS3 is not? what's the difference between both to say that?

Controller, online...something something. But really, there isn't much difference. Online/controller still functions the same, what i'm implying is that headstart triggered a chain reaction of word of mouth that no exclusive could change. 360 is known for shooters and online and BF3 was released. Word of mouth is that one 360 has better online, two the controller is more suited for shooters and lastly, it's a cheaper console. BF3 might as well have called a 360 exclusive, it certainly had the effect. Advertising also helps. All and all that middle ground Sony tried to cover with it's $250 price tag was completely ineffective when the 360 could be sold @ 199 reguardless of HDD concerns and bundle kinects for $50 extra. It's makes $250 look like a bad deal. It's too close to $300 and too far from $199 and this day and age. MS knows how to play with numbers better.

 

[Limanima]

Unless Sony brings something really appealing in the PS4 they will be in trouble in the US in the next gen.

 

[CouchMaster]

Yeah. Gears dropped pretty far from last month. Very front loaded, it seems.
55k for Rage combined doesn't sound all that impressive.

550k

Unless Sony brings something really appealing in the PS4 they will be in trouble in the US in the next gen.

399$ launch or bust.

 

[pixelbox]

Unless Sony brings something really appealing in the PS4 they will be in trouble in the US in the next gen.

Nah

 

[Clear]

To be honest I think the English-language media's backing of 360 over PS3 has played a huge part in securing 360's dominance.

I'm not calling bias here but truthfully, if you can't see a disparity in the way the two platforms, and particularly multi-platform games are treated, you need to open your eyes.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

To be honest I think the English-language media's backing of 360 over PS3 has played a huge part in securing 360's dominance.

I'm not calling bias here but truthfully, if you can't see a disparity in the way the two platforms, and particularly multi-platform games are treated, you need to open your eyes.

Yep, anything that is not Microsoft is responsible for the 360s success. Got it.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[Clear]

Yep, anything that is not Microsoft is responsible for the 360s success. Got it.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Fact is the 360's success is not a global phenomenon. I think asking why they have done so well proportionately in the English speaking world is a good question.

Media influence is a good place to start.

 

[Megadragon15]

To be honest I think the English-language media's backing of 360 over PS3 has played a huge part in securing 360's dominance.

I'm not calling bias here but truthfully, if you can't see a disparity in the way the two platforms, and particularly multi-platform games are treated, you need to open your eyes.

The only desparity I see is that in recent years, quite a few western third parties are giving Playstation 3 version of games exclusive content. Examples: Batman Arkham Asylum, Mortal Kombat , Dead Space 2, and Portal 2.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

To be honest I think the English-language media's backing of 360 over PS3 has played a huge part in securing 360's dominance.

I'm not calling bias here but truthfully, if you can't see a disparity in the way the two platforms, and particularly multi-platform games are treated, you need to open your eyes.

Isn't it the English-language countries where the 360 is dominate in sales? It isn't any more biased than it was last gen with the PS2 getting all the attention. Even reviews of Xbox games were just copy and pastes of the PS2 one. The media covers what is popular.

 

[intheinbetween]

Controller, online...something something. But really, there isn't much difference. Online/controller still functions the same, what i'm implying is that headstart triggered a chain reaction of word of mouth that no exclusive could change. 360 is known for shooters and online and BF3 was released. Word of mouth is that one 360 has better online, two the controller is more suited for shooters and lastly, it's a cheaper console. BF3 might as well have called a 360 exclusive, it certainly had the effect. Advertising also helps. All and all that middle ground Sony tried to cover with it's $250 price tag was completely ineffective when the 360 could be sold @ 199 reguardless of HDD concerns and bundle kinects for $50 extra. It's makes $250 look like a bad deal. It's too close to $300 and too far from $199 and this day and age. MS knows how to play with numbers better.

well I get your point, but it's not that 360 is a shooter box because of its reliable or good (paid) online service or its controller (which is very comfortable for almost every genre), PS3 has similar features as well, PSN is a good(despite its flaws) and free online service (which should make a difference), and although DS3 is a good controller I agree it hasn't evolved in the right direction, making FPS control more comfortable and better, but I don't think that's the problem.

imho the difference could be because of the marketing. here in Spain you can see every FPS PS3 version doing much better than 360's one . you can see exclusive ads for PS3 versions in tv, magazines, bus stops, and so on. here we play with the same online services and controllers as people in NA do, so... in the end, which platform is the shooter one?

 

[H_Prestige]

MS is given way too much credit, they literally had to do nothing and just watch the PS3 burn with the infamous $599 price tag. Sony was fucked the day that price was announced, anyone whom thinks the outcome we have now would have been the same has PS3 released at the same price as the 360....well I don't want to make fun of the mentally challenged. That's just wrong. Sony just have to chalk this gen up to the 360, it's most simply the HD console of choice in NA. Since this is a NPD thread I'll leave it at that.

I see my darling (a racing sim) up there in the charts, any estimation as to how many Forza 4 has done? Would like some more numbers but looking at the charts Gears 3 looks to have dropped off like crazy. Rages not not deserve 550k for it was a shitty shitty little game.

Xbox Live plus lots of games. Price was just one of the reasons ps3 got beat, and that issue was fixed in 2009 anyway so it isn't even relevant to discuss now. MS designed a better product than Sony, at least for the NA market. They didn't do nothing.

Only way the ps3 would steamroll the 360 would be if it launched at a lower price and Sony somehow moneyhatted every single game.

 

[Sydle]

To be honest I think the English-language media's backing of 360 over PS3 has played a huge part in securing 360's dominance.

I'm not calling bias here but truthfully, if you can't see a disparity in the way the two platforms, and particularly multi-platform games are treated, you need to open your eyes.

That typically happens with good consoles.

 

[X26]

Unless Sony brings something really appealing in the PS4 they will be in trouble in the US in the next gen.

A sensible launch price and not giving MS a year headstart might help

 

[Clear]

The media covers what is popular.

Exactly.

But at what point does this become a self-fulfilling prophecy? The platform that gets the lion's share of coverage at the start gets an advantage in visibility, ergo it grows faster than its competitors, ergo the media continues to marginalize coverage of its competitors in order to focus/grow its audience...

As I was at pains to indicate, I'm not calling out bias here. What I'm getting at is the way things are increasingly presented as contests, where there has to be "winners" and "losers" (because that's a simpler and more compelling story than presenting things how they really are), is maybe not serving the audience the way it should.

 

[MikeE21286]

Wow, forgot this came out yesterday.

Only thing I have to say is that at least retail is up YOY.

November will be fun to see.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

To be honest I think the English-language media's backing of 360 over PS3 has played a huge part in securing 360's dominance.

I'm not calling bias here but truthfully, if you can't see a disparity in the way the two platforms, and particularly multi-platform games are treated, you need to open your eyes.

That's true, back at the beginning of the generation English-language media had the audacity to call Sony out on their bullshit. Then they proceeded to claim Xbox 360 was a better development platform (it was), had better versions of multiplatform games (it did), better exclusives (it did), better online service (it did), better online marketplace (yup) and generally, offered practically the same - or more - functionality as PS3, bar Blu-ray playback, for less money (it did). Really, now... You're confusing the cause and the effect. When things started becoming better for PS3, the media's attitude also changed (I still remember all those "PS3 is coming back!" features in Edge), but by then it was too late.

Fact is the 360's success is not a global phenomenon. I think asking why they have done so well proportionately in the English speaking world is a good question.

Media influence is a good place to start.

Or perhaps it has more to do with the fact that Xbox 360 does offer much, much more to its English-speaking customers than to anyone else (and for less money to boot). That's one thing Microsoft should work really hard on rectifying when the next generation comes around.

 

[X26]

That's true, back at the beginning of the generation English-language media had the audacity to call Sony out on their bullshit. Then they proceeded to claim Xbox 360 was a better development platform (it was), had better versions of multiplatform games (it did), better exclusives (it did), better online service (it did), better online marketplace (yup) and generally, offered practically the same - or more - functionality as PS3, bar Blu-ray playback, for less money (it did). Really, now... You're confusing the cause and the effect. When things started becoming better for PS3, the media's attitude also changed (I still remember all those "PS3 is coming back!" features in Edge), but by then it was too late.

You forgot all the extensive coverage on the 360's RROD


...oh, right

 

[TheNatural]

Fact is the 360's success is not a global phenomenon. I think asking why they have done so well proportionately in the English speaking world is a good question.

Media influence is a good place to start.

It's more like the fact that Microsoft has turned their online service into a competitive advantage. People know other people who play multiplatform games online on the 360, and not the PS3, and want to play with them. Microsoft has a better service and built their own franchises around Live to draw people in, and it snowballed into people buying 360's to play with them on even multiplatform releases.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

A sensible launch price and not giving MS a year headstart might help

Launching first means nothing as the President of SCEA Jack Tretton says:

"Well, we’ve never been first to market in any generation. It ultimately came down to the system and what consumers preferred. At the end of the day, what you do in the first year, and whether you do 6 or 10 million units does not determine whether you’re successful or not". -Jack Tretton, President SCEA

As Jack says... it ultimately comes down to the system consumers prefer.

 

[AndresON777]

Why is there no public outrage for the YLOD I wonder

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Why is there no public outrage for the YLOD I wonder

Or the PS2's DRE problems. Gaming media tends to sit out on big hardware problems. Consumer reports they aren't.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

You forgot all the extensive coverage on the 360's RROD


...oh, right

Are you suggesting there wasn't any? Microsoft had to publicly admit there was something wrong with the console, extend the warranty and put aside $1 billion for repairs because nobody called them out on it? There wasn't coverage of it even on normal daily TV in UK and elsewhere? Um, okay...

 

[ilikesanta]

So we all know the the Kinect has been a huge factor in the 360's success this year. I'm sure other people brought up this next point before (but i just thought of it this morning); Could a major part of 360's success be coming from Wii owners upgrading to HD? If this is the case, then a lot of parents could be upgrading for their kids this Christmas, which would mean supper crazy numbers for 360 in Nov/Dec NPDs.

Continuing on this thought, of the large causal market shifting to 360, when the 720 comes out, assuming MS doesn't axe the 360 like it did for XBox1, and the price is right, they could potentially see PS2 like sales for the 360 in the next generation. I don't expect as high of numbers or as long as the PS2 stuck around

Spoiler

I mean the PS2 was just crazy this gen

, but defiantly better then PS3 and Wii.

Causal market shift PS2 -> Wii -> 360? Could happen.

 

[X26]

Are you suggesting there wasn't any? Microsoft had to publicly admit there was something wrong with the console, extend the warranty and put aside $1 billion for repairs because nobody called them out on it? There wasn't coverage of it even on normal daily TV in UK and elsewhere? Um, okay...

it took forever for the gaming media to really cover it, despite it being such a huge issue

 

[offshore]

Why is there no public outrage for the YLOD I wonder

I know, it's pretty puzzling. I've been through three PS3's with YLOD.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

it took forever for the gaming media to really cover it, despite it being such a huge issue

Well, we obviously have different recollections of that period. I have no idea which media outlets you tend to follow, but by the time it became obvious it was a widespread issue (cca 2007), it was practically everywhere.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Fact is the 360's success is not a global phenomenon. I think asking why they have done so well proportionately in the English speaking world is a good question.

Media influence is a good place to start.

As Wii and handhelds have proven, media message doesn't really lead sales trends. Hell, even Kinect's shown this, the enthusiast press savages or ignores all these platforms regularly, and yet they all still sell huge.

 

[RETROEX]

OK, guys, stop it... I know it's NPD but you need to know XBOX 360 dominance it's not just UK and NA, it extends to a big part of the whole continent. How do I know?...well, since Mexico constitutes 66% of all latin american videogames marketshare, and up to 2009 xbox was by far the number 1 console with 61.2% of the market... and given that we are the 5th biggest market for Xbox 360 SO... it might very well be the no 1 console in many countries
what i'm saying is, the biggest chunk of sales for Microsoft comes from USA and UK, but the small markets in the rest of the continent makes up for a healthy leadership and probably makes up for the loses in japan.

They dont`t brag about it because of the amount of piracy (9 out of 10 units of software sold is pirated), but the truth is hardware sells quite OK and that's because the tremendous work microsoft has done

Now that i think about it, I believe we are included in NPD or it's just NA?

sources of info:

http://www.elsiglodetorreon.com.mx/noticia/442408.videojuegos-industria-rentable.html

http://www.niubie.com/2009/07/estadisticas-y-datos-sobre-los-videojuegos-en-mexico/

 

[Clear]

As Wii and handhelds have proven...

Wii and handhelds are/were globally successful in a way that the 360/Kinect isn't.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

That Sony PR is vapid to say the least, any wonder they were shouting about shipping so many Uncharted 3 copies recently.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Wii and handhelds are/were globally successful in a way that the 360/Kinect isn't.

Doesn't matter, they've also had a far rougher time with the press than PS3 ever did. Again, press doesn't set the trends.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Console warriors and fanboys be damned, this is the first NPD I can get behind. Great numbers for all!

New consoles in 2012 wha?

Wii-U is still coming...

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Exclusives don't really push hardware that much, but there is one game coming out on 360 in the next year that I believe will sell some systems for Microsoft.

Minecraft could be huge for the 360. I'd double dip in a second as the game is perfect for comfy couch / controller, but most importantly I'd assume setting up a server would be dead simple.

 

[TheOddOne]

Exclusives don't really push hardware that much, but there is one game coming out on 360 in the next year that I believe will sell some systems for Microsoft.

Minecraft could be huge for the 360. I'd double dip in a second as the game is perfect for comfy couch / controller, but most importantly I'd assume setting up a server would be dead simple.

 

[Clear]

Doesn't matter, they've also had a far rougher time with the press than PS3 ever did. Again, press doesn't set the trends.

Its not just about starting trends, its about propogating and following them. This is especially significant when faced with unusually equal opposition as we see between 360 and PS3.

Are you telling me that a situation where in a majority of cases (for multi-platform titles) the 360 version is the one reviewed, its surprising to you that the PS3 sku is losing out?

You can counter-argue that reviewing the version for the platform with the dominant marketshare best serves the interests of your readership, BUT again my issue is that it preserves the hegemony by precedent.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Really wonder how the Kinect games did this month. Also interested in AC Rev sales next month. Just Dance didn't decline, but I think Revelations is going to see a pretty big decline. And the 2K12 numbers would be interesting. Too bad the NPD sucks

 

[Xilium]

Why is there no public outrage for the YLOD I wonder

Anecdotal evidence but I would assume it is because it is nowhere near as prevalent as the RROD. Amongst the people I know with gaming consoles, I'm the only one that has had a ps3 die, and that was just a faulty power supply which was easily replaced (I did have to fix it myself though since it was a launch unit and I didn't want to lose my backwards compatibility). Contrast that with EVERYONE I know with a 360 having at least one fail, usually more. Those that decided to stick with the system (I didn't) all have 360S's now so they don't have to fear the system breaking down again.

No system is perfect and I've even seen a number of people here on GAF complaining about issues with the Wii (disc drive related IIRC) but they pale in scope compared to the 360 failure rate.

 

[AgentChris]

MS was really smart to get exclusive DLC for GTAIV and to partner up with Activision with Call of Duty related suff.

Next gen Sony needs to reteam with Rockstar for help in NA.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Anecdotal evidence but I would assume it is because it is nowhere near as prevalent as the RROD. Amongst the people I know with gaming consoles, I'm the only one that has had a ps3 die, and that was just a faulty power supply which was easily replaced (I did have to fix it myself though since it was a launch unit and I didn't want to lose my backwards compatibility). Contrast that with EVERYONE I know with a 360 having at least one fail, usually more. Those that decided to stick with the system (I didn't) all have 360S's now so they don't have to fear the system breaking down again.

No system is perfect and I've even seen a number of people here on GAF complaining about issues with the Wii (disc drive related IIRC) but they pale in scope compared to the 360 failure rate.

Eh? You would struggle to find a phat that hasn't been hit by the YLOD.

They are ticking time bombs just like pre-Jasper 360s.

 

[Jigsaw]

Fact is the 360's success is not a global phenomenon. I think asking why they have done so well proportionately in the English speaking world is a good question.

Media influence is a good place to start.

you can see it on gamerankings almost every day,many sites don't even review ps3 copies,for example dark souls,it's the freaking sequel to demon's souls,so how can the 360 version have more reviews than the ps3 version?or resident evil 5?or devil may cry 4?

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Nope, I'm serious. I'd put it in the same category as Just Dance. Minecraft.net has sold 4 million copies to people who have screwed around with getting the right version of java installed and running. I myself am having issues getting a server set up so my wife and I can play together. It's gonna be huge.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

Normally I don't participate in these threads due to the overabundance of fanboy bragging/bitter tears on all sides; However after reading the questions on the mystery of MS's success I'd like to interject with my own opinions on the subject. While there are many factors at play I am only going to list what I feel to be the most important.

I believe MS's success this gen can be attributed to a multitude of factors starting with being 1st to the party and @ the right price. Had the 360 launched when it did at PS3 price points I believe this gen could have been totally different as they would have severely limited the size of their potential customer net, thereby nullifying a great amount of brand loyalty they've earned. The larger install base also created a snowball effect at a certain point where people bought it because their friends had one, and so on.
Additionally, launching earlier not only gave devs more time to learn the system but also created a large enough install base that purchased a mind boggling amount of software publishers could not ignore. This leads us to...

Exclusives. In my mind MS's greatest strategical move this gen was their ability to take away a ridiculous amount of Sony's exclusives, deflating the PS3's appeal. Early this gen it happened so frequently Sony's execs must have felt as if they were back in school having their lunch money stolen whilst being forced to slap themselves in the face as MS stood over top repeating "Why are you hitting yourself? Why are you hitting yourself?". This happened on such a consistently basis it became not just an internet joke, but lead to numerous pure batshit crazy (and absolutely hilarious) PS3 zealots posting manifesto's on the evils of Microsoft and how they are ruining gaming. Had MS not been able to rob Sony blind, I have no doubts that this gen would have been very different. Speaking of differences...

The PS3 turned out not to be much different in the eyes of the consumer. Say what you will about the powah of the cell, bluray and "untapped resources", in the end more multiplats not only ran better on the 360, but in many cases looked just as, if not more, graphically impressive. Furthermore, early on and outside of very few exclusives, the PS3's main advantage of massively superior graphics and performance appeared in reality to be rather slight when compared to the MS exclusives Gears, Bioshock (at the time) and the original CODMW. All this made the talk about the PS3 being the powerhouse console that will put the inferior 360 to shame just short of fanciful imaginings and used car salesman like speak. Suddenly the PS3 appeared not to live up to its promises and its much higher price point was increasingly harder to justify to the impartial consumer. You see the thing about impartiality is...

'Murica, Fuck Yeah! Say what you will about the Japanese being nationalistic, Americans are just as nationalistic if not more in some cases. The 360 being an American console that catered to American tastes helped the brand immensely while giving the western gamer a louder voice in, what was until recently, a previously Japanese dominated industry. The only way MS could have tapped deeper into this aspect of the American consumers psyche would have been to name the 360 the "Ol' Glory" and have the word "Freedom" painted all over the console in red white and blue.

Edits made to reduce redundancies and a few grammatical errors

 

[pestul]

Eh? You would struggle to find a phat that hasn't been hit by the YLOD.

They are ticking time bombs just like pre-Jasper 360s.

Yeah, YLOD was a pretty big issue for all the early-adopter PS3 owners I know.

 

[Yopis]

Nice to see the numbers with Batman. Wonder if 360 will ever get sales in Europe. Guess price slash was not enough for Ps3 yikes.

 

[mujun]

To be honest I think the English-language media's backing of 360 over PS3 has played a huge part in securing 360's dominance.

I'm not calling bias here but truthfully, if you can't see a disparity in the way the two platforms, and particularly multi-platform games are treated, you need to open your eyes.

Guess what, there are a whole bunch of countries where one reason the 360 doesn't do well is because it's not made by Sony or Nintendo.

Bias or not it's up to the platform holder to overcome those sort of barriers.