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NPD Sales Results for August 2009
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Stoney Mason
Banned
Barrage said:
Wii Madden sold 67K so that gives you a rough idea of where the bottom of the top 20 is.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
-PXG- said:
The only "shit storm" that will happen is if the PS3 fails to outsell the 360 in next months NPD. Everyone expects the PS3 to lead next month. The only people expecting a shit storm are console warriors that never post in NPD threads and only come out of their sales age hole to post "I told you" to imaginary posters that don't exist.
D.Lo
Member
You could likely make a GOOD Wii Madden/Dead Space for less then half the cost of a PS360 version. With all the features, serious marketing, and at least better then XB1 graphics. And they could still take advantage of the Wii Remote in ways that made then a superior version to the HD versions in some respects (Motion or pointer controls in Madden ala Pro Evo soccer, IR Pointer FPS aiming in Dead Space).Sho_Nuff82 said:
Instead they've made misguided 'casual' versions with likely less then a quarter of the budget. Dumbed down games with simplified or even broken waggle controls, schizophrenic positioning (It's Madden, but Kiddy! It's Dead Space, but simple!) and worse then last gen graphics.
Can you see the difference?
Not really a big deal for me whether the PS3 and 360 match-up in sales or if the PS Triple supersedes the 360 going forward.
As long the systems succeed enough so I have my sweet exclusives to play, I am totally content.
But, then again, proving people wrong is a great thing and I'm sure that's why perusing the GAF on a daily basis entertains me so much.
As long the systems succeed enough so I have my sweet exclusives to play, I am totally content.
But, then again, proving people wrong is a great thing and I'm sure that's why perusing the GAF on a daily basis entertains me so much.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Where's Donny with the results thread? I think I was only around 70k off. My best month yet. Have a look at the HW predictions thread to see my comparison.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, the thing about a recession is that it doesn't actually have to move up or down...it can do its damage with the market sitting in a trough for long periods of time. And, no, looking at how people spend entertainment dollar isn't necessarily a good indicator of anything especially when you're seeing so many moves by industry players to get people to buy stuff all of the time leading to constant fluctuation with a lack of patterns signifying a trend.liuelson said:
charlequin
Banned
gerg said:
I would honestly argue that FPSes are fairly unique in terms of console genres: they've only flourished on consoles after what had become by far the most important element of the genre (multiplayer) in their PC home became significant on consoles as well.
elrechazado
Banned
Metroid trilogy crash and burn. I guess I was generous guessing 40k. And lol @ whoever I was discussing it with in the pre-npd thread who was claiming 400k, 200 at minimum :lol :lol :lol
AniHawk said:
it's interesting to note that 5th cell are really succesful too. they sold loads of drawn to life and both they and wayforward are really well liked
i get your point though about the lack of western third party support on ds though. it's the japanese who rule that platform, and they seem to be doing really well on it too.
AniHawk said:
i'll check it out, but still. it doesn't look like it's worth anywhere near full price, and if they keep iterating it the version i've got will seem outdated pretty quickly. at the end of the day it's a party game where you throw blocks at other blocks, not mario galaxy
i'd like to see them put some proper games on wii. not of this party game bullshit or outsourced, watered down, arcade game spinoff crap. a few new games from some of their decent teams. maybe some new ips or something. they could put a few mario style platformers on it or a survival horror game or a metroid prime type single player shooter or a new desert strike!
but they wont
Katana_Strikes
Member
jvm said:
Link to Top20 plz.
plagiarize
Banned
it didn't matter when the PS2 launched to see where it was trending. it didn't matter if it had been out one year, or twelve. i'm not saying you take a single month in isolation, just that you look at the recent history. you look at the current trends.poppabk said:
if the PS3 outsells the 360 next month developers aren't going to instantly switch, nor should they, cause one month doesn't make a trend.
that's why i was saying month on month.
all i am saying is that aligning the systems by launch date, or arguing about install base are irrelavent. they were irrelavent in 06 too.
plagiarize
Banned
there you go again. hang what anyone that has played the game tells you, you know better. it's another cheap party wii half assed game because you say so.Sipowicz said:
do you do this in every thread where the wii is discussed or just the ones i read?
AdventureRacing
Member
Sipowicz said:
This one of the most amazing things about the DS's success. That despite the lack of western 3rd party support it is still putting up numbers that make the PS2's look pathetic.
It also shows how much money 3rd party devs leave on the table. They have basically ignored the most successful console of all time, which also happened to have low development costs. They have also basically ignored the wii which will end up either the 2nd or 3rd best selling console of all time.
The DS will probably end up selling more than 150 million units (conservative) and the wii will surely pass 100 million units. So these devs have basically ignored this gigantic userbase in favor of developing for the HD twins which will be lucky to hit 100 million combined and comes with the added bonus of having FAR higher dev costs (especially compared to the DS).
With this sort of business strategy it's obvious why so many devs are struggling.
plagiarize
Banned
you're missing something else though that is less obvious. developing on the wii takes a very different mind set and dare i say it very different talents.AdventureRacing said:
Retro one of the most talented studios out there make a brilliant game like Prime 3, a follow up to a critically acclaimed series... and what happens? pretty little.
you can't just take a team that's great at making one kind of console game, and have them make a wii game and have it be a success it seems.
so yeah, the wii gets less games aimed at core gamers. aside from anything with 'Mario' in the title, which games aimed at core gamers have been hits on the scale of the best selling core games on the other consoles?
there's nothing to say that companies like Ubisoft could make a successful core game on the Wii with their existing talent, and when there's enough of a market between PC, PS3 and 360 to use their existing talent to the best of their abilities, is that really so wrong?
charlequin said:
I'm not denying this, but as I've mentioned before, I would still argue that, when offered the chance, most people who would buy an FPS would prefer one that features greater graphics over motion controls. Again, this is not to say that they value graphics for their own worth, but rather that they're disinterested in motion controls. As I've mentioned in the past, I would want to posit that were CoD4 released on the Wii, fully featured (in a hypothetical world where the Wii has a decent online infrastructure), it would still be outsold handily by its HD counterparts.
Overall, I don't want to say that the people who have traditionally bought Madden for the Wii are, again, the same group whom I would say have bought, for example, both CoD3 and any on-rails FPSs for the console. Regarding the latter combination, I'd feel confident that the Wii has the largest number of people who enjoy light gun games out of any of the current systems, thus creating a base where people might enjoy similar games (in this case, other FPSs). However, there doesn't seem to be this thematic link between on-rails FPSs and Madden, and thus it seems to be all too convenient to state that, yet again, it's just the same consumer buying a different game. I also don't want to categorise Madden fans as having values much distinct from other gamers in their demographic. As a result, is my earlier conclusion - that there would never be a strong market for FPSs (and games targeted at the same demographic) on the Wii - wrong? Or is this idea of an overlap, whilst a very easy conclusion to make, correct?
In short: why the hell have so many people bought Madden for the Wii in the past?
Cat in the Hat
Member
It's a shame, I really enjoyed itHaunted said:
Son of Godzilla
Banned
AdventureRacing said:
If the DS and Wii are attractive enough to become the best selling consoles without their support, exactly where are they going to get their shoe in the door with all those owners content enough with what already exists?
Son of Godzilla said:
Well it gets to a point where it is too late to get their foot in the door. I dont have any sympathy for Studios closing due to costs etc when they had alternatives. The Wii and its success was all but apparent at E3 06.
To continue to ignore from that point is their own fault. The door was wide open and they decided they couldnt fit without even trying.
plagiarize
Banned
which developer showed that you could make a core game on the system and do well?laserbeam said:
the only developers that have done well are i think the ones that showed they were willing to adapt to the strengths of the system and make appropriate games for it.
i really don't see some of the studios that closed taking their game to the wii and having success with it.
plagiarize
Banned
but you have no proof that making a wii game would have help save them from closure. no examples to point to.laserbeam said:
plagiarize said:
Well lets take Factor 5. Lair bombed and the company basically imploded now the remanents of the company are switched to pretty much 100% Wii development with titles like Rogue Squadron which will be a success.
Companies are developing games for systems they cannot afford to develop on the hopes if its a flavor of the month success we will be rich. Title fails and suddenly 2/3 of the studio is on its ass with an unemplyment sign.
What would have been the more logical thing to do. Take on a new Rogue Squadorn from the get go that would not bankrupt the company or Jump on the PS3 bandwagon and risk everything.
charlequin
Banned
gerg said:
While I think this might be true, I think the significance of this distinction is dwarfed by the analogous comparison between, say, people who have to choose either an FPS with only a single-player mode and the "same" game with only a multiplayer mode.
Historically, there really are examples of "hit" multiplayer shooters with quite poor graphics (see: Counter-Strike, especially, but also the new trend of browsergames, etc.) but not so much with single-player "experience" shooters. As I think about it more, I think the Wii might find itself in a double-bind on the shooter issue -- the type of shooter that Wii can handle (single-player, or local-multi-only which is essentially the same thing) due to its weak online infrastructure is also the far more graphically-dependent type.
I think there is probably a significant (but by no means total) overlap -- I certainly know a number people whose gaming consumption is primarily Madden or other equivalent sports games plus online FPSes -- but I think the underlying desires here don't necessarily overlap in a relevant way.
With Madden, the #1 primary appeal is the ability to simulate a game of American football. Either playing alone, or against an in-person opponent, or playing online, the experience is largely the same -- football is being played, plays are being called, and runs and throws controlled by the player.
The HD systems do provide more "graphical fidelity" to the game, but new console Maddens are often quite unattractive to start with, and this generation they actually lost features compared to the PS2/Xbox versions. Given this fact, I don't think there's actually any inherent reason that most Madden gamers (besides those heavily invested in online play specifically, which I suspect is a far smaller group than amongst FPS players) need to have HD-system versions. The primary determiner would almost certainly be features; in a situation with equivalent features, the mass market would probably be relatively agnostic in terms of what platform they wanted to play Madden on, with more people making the decision based on what console they would otherwise own than vice versa.
plagiarize
Banned
yeah erm, you might want to wait until their Wii game comes out and sells well.laserbeam said:
They risked everything because Nintendo was apparently holding them back. Nintendo is a rather conservative company and Factor 5 wanted to take their succes to the next level so they started expanding. They were working on a Pilotwings project for the GameCube and Nintendo kept delaying the game and eventually moved it to revolution(without Factor 5 or anyone knowing what that revolution would be). At that point they had bills to pay and Nintendo wasn't interested in multiple projects and they certainly wouldn't release Pilotwings on the GameCube. The game would've been a perfect fit for the Wii and would've sold quite a few copies but if I was Factor 5, I would've joined Sony as well. The $599 didn't even happen yet when they made that move.laserbeam said:
charlequin said:
I agree, but then this all feeds back into the discussion of whether or not Nintendo should have pursued third parties in order to produce these types of games. Unless I misunderstood you, when discussing the matter we eventually agreed that, if it were not profitable for Nintendo, Nintendo would be right not to attract third parties to make them. The conclusion that this move would eventually be unprofitable is based on the assertion that it would take a monumental move by Nintendo (paying for tons of exclusives and essentially stopping other games being released) to encourage consumers to buy a Wii for these games, rather than the relatively inexpensive move of changing their online infrastructure.
Is the weakness of the Wii's online infrastructure caused at least partially by its hardware?
So the conclusion would be that Madden sales would not be indicative of sales of, say, FPSs?
I agree that people determine what system they buy without considering Madden very much. It just surprises me that, apparently, 800,000 people (if not ever so slightly more) then decided to buy a Wii for other reasons. I'd expect the Wii to have say, a two to three million 18-35 male fanbase, this number seems rather large for such a small audience. Is Madden simply that popular? That the Wii would have the capacity to hold an audience (of that demographic) much larger than that would suggest to me that Nintendo was in fact wrong to ignore third-parties, and that it would have been possible to create a significant audience relatively easily (and certainly profitably).
AdventureRacing
Member
plagiarize said:
First of all i love how you just ignore the DS. Lots of the biggest games on DS don't use the stylus or it's barely needed (NSMB, pokmen, DQ, FF, AC, M64, YI, MKDS).
The fact is nintendo has had no problem adapting to the new control styles. There are 2 reason for this IMO:
1) They came up with the ideas for these new control styles
2) They are by far the best developer and they put everyone else in the industry to shame (barring a handful of developers i.e blizz, valve, maybe capcom).
plagiarize said:
Who said i was talking about 'core' games. I'm not a nintendo fan having a whinge about the lack of core games on nintendo consoles. I am just talking about the lack of support in general.
The DS and wii are selling so much software and a number of companies are just missing out. I just don't understand how they can basically just ignore these massive markets.
Also i would love to hear what your definition of 'core' games is. The biggest sellers on the HD consoles are games like halo, CoD, madden, GTA, AC, GoW. These are casual games, i want to know when these became core games.
Edit: unless you mean 'core' games as in the devs most important titles?
plagiarize said:
You have got to be joking, most devs ignore the PC to. Also there clearly isn't enough market between PC, 360 and PS3 otherwise 3rd party devs would be in so much shit.
Also ubisoft is a terrible example because they are actually making some money on the DS and wii.
laserbeam said:
The collapse of Brash had as much to do with the "fall" of Factor 5 as the lack of success of Lair. Indeed, they were already working on Wii titles before the "implosion".
The market and traditional retail model are increasingly challenging and unforgiving, regardless of platform. There is so much content on every platform and such restricted channels to market that any new game faces large hurdles. The fact that publishers are heavily influenced by wider credit and economic issues (predominantly stock price declines and less willingness to fund development) isn't helping either.
Consequently, there are just as many Wii and DS developers out there struggling as there are PS3 and 360 developers.
plagiarize
Banned
which is all well and good since the system has more buttons than it's predescessor. many of those games DIDN'T adapt a new control style.AdventureRacing said:
the fact is that Nintendo's development teams have no choice but to make games for Nintendo platforms. they had no choice, other developers have a choice.
no one, but the companies that are missing out have for the large part made core games in the past, and so would need to acquire new teams, or hope their teams don't mind making a completely different style of game.
erm... what? 'core games' are those that gamers play. all the games you listed are core games.
you want to know when Assassin's Creed stopped being a casual game? i'm sorry what?
i mention PC as most multiplatform games released on 360 and PS3 also come out on the PC. if you are making a 360/PS3 title, the amount of work likely needed in releasing a PC version as well is much less than it would be to custom build a Wii version. infact many developers use the PC as a good midway between the two HD consoles and focus most of their development time on that platform.
[Nintex] said:
Yes, Nintendo was holding them back with 3rd-person chase camera flight sims. They really wanted to show their versatility with a.... 3rd-person chase camera flight sim! And once they saw that Nintendo had a system with competent motion control.... well, eff that, they wanted theirs to have shitty motion control.
They gambled everything for the sake of high art and creativity, but like Icarus, flew too close to the sun.
boiled goose
good with gravy
markatisu said:
I agree completely.
Madden 07 on wii was even considered by some to be the most fun version.
EA built upon each Tiger woods release. Slowly building up quality to the point they made the definitive version with 10.
With madden they have gone up in some areas, down in others, changed the branding and visuals drastically, delivered less features than other versions, etc.
TW makes sense of wii cause of realism. people looking for that experience for football on the wii now have no option.
There are tons of cartoony sports games on wii. Family fun footbal, backyard football, etc. madden is now part of those as supposed to offering the realistic , full fledged experience.
While the visual style might get them more sales in the lower age groups, it will cost them sales in the older age groups. wii owners are from all age groups and a significant portion are >35 years old. now these gamers have no option for a football game.
boiled goose
good with gravy
2 WII SPORTS RESORT W/ WII MOTION PLUS (WII; Jul-09) 754,000
8 WII FIT* (WII; May-08) 128,000
9 MARIO KART W/WHEEL (WII; Apr-08) 120,000
10 FOSSIL FIGHTERS (NDS; Aug-09) 92,000
11 MARIO KART DS (NDS)
12 NEW SUPER MARIO BROS (NDS)
13 WII PLAY W/ REMOTE (WII)
14 POKEMON PLATINUM VERSION (NDS)
16 PROFESSOR LAYTON AND THE DIABOLICAL BOX (NDS)
17 MADDEN NFL 10 (WII)
19 EA SPORTS ACTIVE BUNDLE (WII)
20 TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 10* (WII)
Nintendo and EA on wii only
12/20
8 WII FIT* (WII; May-08) 128,000
9 MARIO KART W/WHEEL (WII; Apr-08) 120,000
10 FOSSIL FIGHTERS (NDS; Aug-09) 92,000
11 MARIO KART DS (NDS)
12 NEW SUPER MARIO BROS (NDS)
13 WII PLAY W/ REMOTE (WII)
14 POKEMON PLATINUM VERSION (NDS)
16 PROFESSOR LAYTON AND THE DIABOLICAL BOX (NDS)
17 MADDEN NFL 10 (WII)
19 EA SPORTS ACTIVE BUNDLE (WII)
20 TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 10* (WII)
Nintendo and EA on wii only
12/20
plagiarize said:
i'll play it when i get a chance, but i'm in no hurry and the wii has a whole host of similar games which i want to get to first. it is what it is though. i wouldn't ever qualify it or its sequel as "strong support" or "a show of faith" but it's fine if you do
AniHawk said:
i might get an xbox again, but there's too much overlap with the pc for me at the moment. im waiting to see what they announce at tgs
the reason i'd like to see half exclusive decent support on the wii from ea is because i own one and exclusives are what i bought it for. i dont have many multiplatform games for it ans they tend to be bad when they are there.
they're making a bit of money off it so it'd be nice to see some of it invested in the platform
Liabe Brave
Member
Well, there's prestige involved as well; while it may be hard to put a number on it, that's a real value for the perception of your products, and thus for resumés if you work on them.AdventureRacing said:
Just look at the film industry: there's plenty of demand for direct-to-video movies, their quality can be high, and lots of money is made by them. But all the best talent wants to work on theatrical films, even though they cost massively more and are riskier. It's because the prestige rewards are hugely greater.
It's loltaku, so take it with a bigass grain of salt, but supposedly the Wii is price dropping in the first week of October.
http://kotaku.com/5357766/wii-price-drop-looks-to-hit-first-week-of-october
http://kotaku.com/5357766/wii-price-drop-looks-to-hit-first-week-of-october
Liabe Brave said:
Not really, it's not about prestige, theatrical films gets to make money twice, in theaters and on DVDs. Budget and prestige in films doesn't correlate, you just need recognition.
If you compare it to IMAX though, maybe it's higher 'prestige' and higher quality and perhaps make more money through with more expensive tickets, but it still doesn't justify the higher cost in most cases.
Thanks, AniHawk.AniHawk said:
At first I was like ... cool, hard figures! Then I was like ... wait, it's AniHawk. He's cranky, and very sarcastic to boot. Then I thought ... wait, no way he'd joke about that. Then I thought ... wait, it is AniHawk.
Then I looked through the thread and found the GameSpot link. :lol
lowlylowlycook
Member
Liabe Brave said:
The difference is that the huge costs of AAA movies has a lot to do with having to pay actors that pull people to the theaters a ton of money for exactly that reason.
In the case of games, the connection between high cost AAA production values and sales is much more tenuous if it exists at all.
Stoney Mason
Banned
-x.Red.x- said:
?
What is so impossible?