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NPD Sales Results for December 2007
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, 121 titles over 100k means that it's at least somewhat feasible, provided that there were a few more Wii games that sold extremely well. I imagine a largeer percentage of those games were on the PS2 and DS, though, these being the holidays.Odysseus said:
perfectchaos007
Member
I think I have a lot of games for Wii. And I only have 8....
WTF? Matts smokin somethin
WTF? Matts smokin somethin
DeaconKnowledge
Member
10 Million is quite the number, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. Wii seems to have tons of smaller titles that sell a modest 100K to 200K. If true, good to see the console has some depth, and that's definitely a number that will get people talking.
Sir Alemeth
Member
I have 24 Wii games not including VC ones. Am I guilty?
Souldriver
Member
10 games for each bought Wii is insane! I'm with Odysseus here. Not believing it till we have a credible source. I never took Matt for his word anyway. Too many bullshittin.
AdventureRacing
Member
jarrod said:
Well people are using past performances of games like GTA and GT to suggest that they will sell more than halo 3 this gen, and i thought u were suggesting it as well which i can see now you weren't.
In the past games like GT and GTA have easily outsold halo but i really don't see that happening this gen especially GT. I think GTA will outsell halo 3 but not on 360 alone.
AlternativeUlster
Absolutely pathetic part deux
I own 26 games and haven't bought a new one since I got Mario Galaxy or Zack and Wiki. Can't remember which. It's been longer for a DS game actually but that will change next week with Advanced Wars though.
Captain Smoker
Member
Let´s merge the data we have:
Uncooked said:
No, actually it makes perfect sense. If Wii is the casual system we think it is, casual gamers are more likely to buy games during the holidays, so the December NPD period would favor those types of systems. Core gamers tend to purchase their games at launch, and look at what games released in December.... Yeah. I know I didn't buy one single game in December, but I bought something like 4 or 5 in November. It would not surprise me if 360's attach rate for November was actually higher than it's December attach rate if this is true though.
Not to say it's true mind, but it's not implausible.
mr_bishiuk
Banned
pswii60 said:
Why not count Wii Sports as 5 games while we're at it!
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Hell, it works for Ebayers.mr_bishiuk said:
We've been over this enough, we should all know it by now. If Matt is correct and getting his info direct from NPD, then Wii Sports and Link Crossbow Training would not count, nor would the 360 bundled games, or any downloaded games but Wii Play is.
I think the best confirmation for Wii software being greater than 360 software is the complete lack of mentioning the Wii software in MS' press release. They've never held back in claiming their dominance before, but this month they only copmpared themselves with the PS3 for monthly software sales.
I think the best confirmation for Wii software being greater than 360 software is the complete lack of mentioning the Wii software in MS' press release. They've never held back in claiming their dominance before, but this month they only copmpared themselves with the PS3 for monthly software sales.
Captain Smoker said:
So with the above data, we know the December tie ratios are at least this high:
HW Sales
System HW SW SW/HW
360 1260000 4,595,000+ 3.65+
Wii 1350000 4,493,400 3.33+
PS3 797600 1,855,650+ 2.33+
PS2 1100000 1,905,200+ 1.73+
NDS 2470000 1,162,400+ 0.47+
PSP 1060000 0+ 0.00+
Edit: Tried to format for better readability.
Eteric Rice
Member
Wii tie-ration is going up?
Really?
Really?
AnimeTheme
Member
Wii SW > XB360 SW for Dec alone may be possible (I still doubt it though), but the 10:1 Wii tie ratio thing is definitely total bullshit, no matter it's Dec or LTD.
Eteric Rice
Member
AnimeTheme said:
The only way I can see it is if the batch of people that bought Wii for Christmas were hardcore or something.
Which would be weird...
AnimeTheme
Member
Shiggy said:
That 10:1 claim is based on Matt's saying, NOT directly from NPD or any hard cold data we can count by ourselves. Are you so damn sure that he made NO mistake or spinning in his saying?
bishopcruz
Member
I decided to see what I could figure out from the known software we have whether or not this 10:1 for the Wii was probable. So here is the known software numbers for the Wii:
WII SUPER MARIO GALAXY 1.400.000
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 1.080.000
WII MARIO AND SONIC: OLYMPIC GAMES 613.000
WII GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK 500.000
WII MARIO PARTY 8 420.000
WII CARNIVAL GAMES 272.000
WII RESIDENT EVIL: THE UMBRELLA CHRONICLES 147.600
WII NIGHTS: JOURNEY OF DREAMS 60.800
This Equals:
Total software that we know at 4,493,400 for the Wii.
If we add another 1,350,000 for Wii Sports that gives us:
5,843,400 total.
The question then becomes can the rest of the Wii software out there make up 7,656,600 in sales in order to get a 10:1 tie ratio for the month. Assuming there are 100 other Wii games, that means that each one would have to, on average, sell better than Nights.
That just seems REALLY unlikely.
For comparison:
360 CALL OF DUTY 4: MODERN WARFARE 1.470.000
360 ASSASSIN'S CREED 893.700
360 HALO 3 742.700
360 GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK 624.600
360 ROCK BAND 463.000
360 MASS EFFECT 401.000
That gives us a total of 4,595,000 in sales for the 360 games that we know. That is with two LESS games known than the Wii. So in order for the Wii to beat it, the average Wii game would have to beat the average 360 title in sales. Not impossible. Though I would have to say that Matt's report seems kinda weird.
Now I don't know the ratio of Elites, Pro's, and Arcade units sold, nor what percentage of them were bundles, but even if 50% of Pros and Elites were unbundled, if we count the Arcade pack in as a game that leaves us with an average of 1 game per 360 (probably a little less due to the Halo 3 bundles).
So let's put it at .9 per 360 sold, that gives us 1,134,000 in software from bundles.
That would put us at 5,729,000 in 360 sofware including bundles. This gives the Wii a slight edge. Though this number is a little flaky as we don't know the percentage of bundles out there, as well as the number of Arcades sold in comparison to bundles, it is likely to be higher.
So with bundled games, and known games, the Wii has a slight software edge. This is of course, with two less known games for the 360 as compared to the Wii.
Bottom line, while it is possible, though IMO it could go either way, that Wii software outsold 360 software in December, the 10-1 attach for the month seems pretty unlikely.
Edit: Ok, so while I was doing this JJConrad mentioned that Matt wouldn't count Bundles in on the software sales. Would he count them for tie-in? Because without the bundles a 10:1 tie is even more unlikely.
WII SUPER MARIO GALAXY 1.400.000
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 1.080.000
WII MARIO AND SONIC: OLYMPIC GAMES 613.000
WII GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK 500.000
WII MARIO PARTY 8 420.000
WII CARNIVAL GAMES 272.000
WII RESIDENT EVIL: THE UMBRELLA CHRONICLES 147.600
WII NIGHTS: JOURNEY OF DREAMS 60.800
This Equals:
Total software that we know at 4,493,400 for the Wii.
If we add another 1,350,000 for Wii Sports that gives us:
5,843,400 total.
The question then becomes can the rest of the Wii software out there make up 7,656,600 in sales in order to get a 10:1 tie ratio for the month. Assuming there are 100 other Wii games, that means that each one would have to, on average, sell better than Nights.
That just seems REALLY unlikely.
For comparison:
360 CALL OF DUTY 4: MODERN WARFARE 1.470.000
360 ASSASSIN'S CREED 893.700
360 HALO 3 742.700
360 GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK 624.600
360 ROCK BAND 463.000
360 MASS EFFECT 401.000
That gives us a total of 4,595,000 in sales for the 360 games that we know. That is with two LESS games known than the Wii. So in order for the Wii to beat it, the average Wii game would have to beat the average 360 title in sales. Not impossible. Though I would have to say that Matt's report seems kinda weird.
Now I don't know the ratio of Elites, Pro's, and Arcade units sold, nor what percentage of them were bundles, but even if 50% of Pros and Elites were unbundled, if we count the Arcade pack in as a game that leaves us with an average of 1 game per 360 (probably a little less due to the Halo 3 bundles).
So let's put it at .9 per 360 sold, that gives us 1,134,000 in software from bundles.
That would put us at 5,729,000 in 360 sofware including bundles. This gives the Wii a slight edge. Though this number is a little flaky as we don't know the percentage of bundles out there, as well as the number of Arcades sold in comparison to bundles, it is likely to be higher.
So with bundled games, and known games, the Wii has a slight software edge. This is of course, with two less known games for the 360 as compared to the Wii.
Bottom line, while it is possible, though IMO it could go either way, that Wii software outsold 360 software in December, the 10-1 attach for the month seems pretty unlikely.
Edit: Ok, so while I was doing this JJConrad mentioned that Matt wouldn't count Bundles in on the software sales. Would he count them for tie-in? Because without the bundles a 10:1 tie is even more unlikely.
bishopcruz
Member
Luckyman said:
Yeah, edited my post at the bottom:
So without the games we know, in order to get a 10:1
We would need 9,006,600 in sales for all other Wii games.
This also then puts the 360 ahead in known software via my math. And with two less games known.
How many Wii games were on the market this Xmas? How many 360?
Sharp said:
Back of the envelope: known Wii software (SMG, WP, M&S, etc) is around 4.5 million. Software above 100k that we know of - around 20 or titles. That leaves, as a lower bound, around 100 titles at 100k for 10 million. The upper bound could be much higher, of course, since we don't have complete information outside of the top 10. But at least the lower bound estimate doesn't immediately rule it out.
bishopcruz
Member
JJConrad said:
But don't you think that Nintendo might have mentioned that? I mean hell my company beat the 360 in software sales overall I would have gone and told it on the mountain. If they did it it would be an impressive feat.
Surely if it were true Nintendo would've mentioned it in their press release. They had no problem gloating about software sales on the DS for example...
I just think someone else would've mentioned it, that is a pretty significant thing. My guess is Matt simply miscalculated something.
I just think someone else would've mentioned it, that is a pretty significant thing. My guess is Matt simply miscalculated something.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Raw64life said:
No major retailer did forced bundles I don't think, except maybe on their websites. But not in stores.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah, that's what I'd think.Sean said:
However, why didn't Microsoft boast that they sold the most software then? They spent their whole PR talking about the PS3 only.
Here's the recent PR history:
MS on October NPD said:
This 'combined' line was dropped in November as it was no doubt not true anymore:
Note only the combined hardware and software figure was supplied in November, with the Wii gaining ground month over month in dollar percentage (69% of MSes revenue for October compared to 76% in November).MS on November NPD said:
This figure is obviously the one that makes them look better (compared to the Wii, but not the PS3), since their hardware (and software) costs more, so even with the same number of actual units moved they would be ahead. And yet the Wii still made 76% of the revenue.
VERY ROUGH NOVEMBER SOFTWARE ESTIMATES: We know the 360 made around $289 million in console hardware revenue in November (based on a guess of a $375 average console price) and the Wii made $245 million console hardware revenue, which puts the companies software+controllers revenue at around $474 million MS to $342 million Nintendo. Ignoring controllers and pretending all games cost maximum US retail ($60 360, $50 Wii) , that would mean MS sold 7.9 million games and Nintendo 6.8 million games - pretty close even in November, although this is very rough considering so many unknown variables like software prices and controller sales.
Now we have December:
Their only mention of the Wii in the PR, and it was for the full year, not December. All reference to next-gen software sales for the month was completely dropped. The only reference to Wii software sales at all was indirect and irrellevant to the month, when they quote their console has the best lifetime attach rate (an incorrect term they they run with [it's tie ratio], but whatever).MS on December NPD said:
Why would Microsoft not tell us if they sold the most games? And this time they didn't even report the revenue, suggesting it was now too close to be a point to boast about.
HocusPocus
Member
Who actually didn't think Wii software would sell tons at Christmas? It's the other months in the year that the 360 has a dominant edge.
Souldriver
Member
NO WAI :Ofelipeko said:
It means that we should see total Nintendo domination in the software charts, and that's not the case. Wii software does well, but not 13.5 million well.
HocusPocus said:
It's quite backwards. Wii dominates the hardware charts by so much during the year because of its low price (people are far more forgiving spending $400-600 on something when it's during the holidays) while its software is what truly shines during the holidays and not so much during the year, that being because everybody and their mom (literally) getting Wii games for gifts.
Compare that to 360 who has such a hardcore base that will buy games all year long. However, the entry price is still too high to just go out and spend on any random occasion, which is why you'll never see hardware sales similar to Wii's.
PS3 and PSP are showing increases in hardware over last time, and Sony is halfway through their hardware comeback in Japan with the increased PSP sales (nearly matching DS) and normalized 30+k sales for PS3.
I told you guys that the tide was turning! It started back in Fall 2007 in Japan and it's slowly reaching the NA market. By 2008 winter, both PS3 and PSP will be outselling it's competitors in the hardware arena.
I told you guys that the tide was turning! It started back in Fall 2007 in Japan and it's slowly reaching the NA market. By 2008 winter, both PS3 and PSP will be outselling it's competitors in the hardware arena.
Eteric Rice
Member
Tabris said:PS3 and PSP are showing increases in hardware over last time, and Sony is halfway through their hardware comeback in Japan with the increased PSP sales (nearly matching DS) and normalized 30+k sales for PS3.
I told you guys that the tide was turning! It started back in Fall 2007 in Japan and it's slowly reaching the NA market. By 2008 winter, both PS3 and PSP will be outselling it's competitors in the hardware arena.
Oh God. :lol
I can't believe they let you back out of your kennel.
Sony isn't going to win, stop trying to cause a scene please.
Oh, and take your meds.
Golden.Tabris said:PS3 and PSP are showing increases in hardware over last time, and Sony is halfway through their hardware comeback in Japan with the increased PSP sales (nearly matching DS) and normalized 30+k sales for PS3.
I told you guys that the tide was turning! It started back in Fall 2007 in Japan and it's slowly reaching the NA market. By 2008 winter, both PS3 and PSP will be outselling it's competitors in the hardware arena.
:lol
:lolTabris said:PS3 and PSP are showing increases in hardware over last time, and Sony is halfway through their hardware comeback in Japan with the increased PSP sales (nearly matching DS) and normalized 30+k sales for PS3.
I told you guys that the tide was turning! It started back in Fall 2007 in Japan and it's slowly reaching the NA market. By 2008 winter, both PS3 and PSP will be outselling it's competitors in the hardware arena.