Support NeoGAF

[KillerSloth]

I wouldn't say Sony has become complacent. They're in a very strong position worldwide and in the USA. They're consistently the number one selling home console in the USA despite being the most expensive. Sony have done exactly what they have needed to in order to gain a majority in the US.

What has been a concern for Sony is what Microsoft have done for the Xbox One over the past couple of years, removing Kinect, dropping the price $100, Additional $50 price cut and aggressive bundling, exclusive US content and other deals at a time when PS4 sales are at their peak. Microsoft have come a long way in turning around the Xbox One's fortunes in the USA but are unable to become the cumulative sales leader or even sell as well as the 360 did against the PS3. Sony have done well to maintain their lead and retain strongholds in pretty much every worldwide market.



I didn't say that.

Good points, I guess I am just surpised MS has made move after move and Sony, other then a couple bundles has stayed steadfast and really not done much of anything deal wise. I guess if you look at it another way it's impressive they are still outselling x1 most months. What happens when sony does make a a bigger push with a price cut, better deals? Sony in that regard is in a much better position. They have more cards t play.

 

[slavesnyder]

I am close to making myself a T-shirt with "next month will be interesting..." And wear it for GamesCom as an NPD thred member honeytrap.

Also (asking this every month) did we get results from our beloved betting game?

 

[slavesnyder]

Good points, I guess I am just surpised MS has made move after move and Sony, other then a couple bundles has stayed steadfast and really not done much of anything deal wise. I guess if you look at it another way it's impressive they are still outselling x1 most months. What happens when sony does make a a bigger push with a price cut, better deals? Sony in that regard is in a much better position. They have more cards t play.

Sony does not need to win the US to win this gen. microsoft, on the other hand needs the US market at all cost.
so, Sony is not urged to follow all crazy moves the Xbox division does to stay relevant. and instead play it cool and make money.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Sony does not need to win the US to win this gen. microsoft, on the other hand needs the US market at all cost.
so, Sony is not urged to follow all crazy moves the Xbox division does to stay relevant. and instead play it cool and make money.

Pretty much this to be honest.

It's a different strategy compared to PS2 but one that ultimately allows Sony to generate higher profit on both hardware and software whilst remaining the cumulative sales leader worldwide.

In the PS2 era it was very clear that Sony were sacrificing margin on hardware to become the cumulative sales leader and hoped to make the money back on software. A strategy that ultimately worked very well for them.

 

[Doctor Professional]

I think the holidays were a surprise to everyone.

But then again, Microsoft's strategy since the launch of Xbox in 2001 has always been to focus on the holiday sales period.

Right but see after losing part of the first holiday season and only winning the second due to stock issues, that combined with negativity, which even tf did minimal to recover, I expected holiday 2014 to be the end and I was thrown off guard quite a bit. I even though November was a fluke and they won December as well.

I mean My jaw was on the ground until January.

 

[Chobel]

Right but see after losing part of the first holiday season and only winning the second due to stock issues, that combined with negativity, which even tf did minimal to recover, I expected holiday 2014 to be the end and I was thrown off guard quite a bit. I even though November was a fluke and they won December as well.

I mean My jaw was on the ground until January.

Price matters, being at lower price than PS4 is working well for them.

 

[slavesnyder]

Pretty much this to be honest.

It's a different strategy compared to PS2 but one that ultimately allows Sony to generate higher profit on both hardware and software whilst remaining the cumulative sales leader worldwide.

In the PS2 era it was very clear that Sony were sacrificing margin on hardware to become the cumulative sales leader and hoped to make the money back on software. A strategy that ultimately worked very well for them.

In fact, Sony did not even know how they became US sales leader I guess. Microsoft served it on the silver plate. With higher price, bad communication and complete misunderstanding of the market's demand. Plus they lost the system specs poker.
So I guess they are happy about this gift they never expected but are not willing to sacrifice their strategy and profitability just for the sake to keep it.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Price matters, being at lower price than PS4 is working well for them.

Yup, whilst the Xbox brand has lost some its appeal due to the botched launch. The brand still holds a lot of power in the USA and is still the default gaming brand of choice for a number of people.

Take the average parent for example, they don't know about the Xbox One launch, they don't know about the games, they don't know about gaming in general. What they do know is that their child/family had an Xbox 360 and that this Christmas the Xbox One is at a good affordable price. Now that's just one example of many, but brand and pricr plays a big part among decision makers.

So I guess they are happy about this gift they never expected but are not willing to sacrifice their strategy and profitability just for the sake to keep it.

Yeh, pretty much

 

[Doctor Professional]

Yup, whilst the Xbox brand has lost some its appeal due to the botched launch. The brand still holds a lot of power in the USA and is still the default gaming brand of choice for a number of people.

Take the average parent for example, they don't know about the Xbox One launch, they don't know about the games, they don't know about gaming in general. What they do know is that their child/family had an Xbox 360 and that this Christmas the Xbox One is at a good affordable price. Now that's just one example of many, but brand and pricr plays a big part among decision makers.



Yeh, pretty much

Thong is though price originally didn't do much. I'd say price is the only thing that kept it alive until the holidays. Maybe not even that if they stayed at $400 instead of dropping an extra 50. It's amazing how they dodged death twice. Well, still would have sold more than the Wii u, but it could have been bad.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Thong is though price originally didn't do much. I'd say price is the only thing that kept it alive until the holidays. Maybe not even that if they stayed at $400 instead of dropping an extra 50. It's amazing how they dodged death twice. Well, still would have sold more than the Wii u, but it could have been bad.

It's all about perception of value as well.

A lot of people jumped on the $349 deal during the holiday to get the X1 for games they wanted to play. $499 or $399 just didn't have that same value perception as the competition was equally priced or cheaper.

 

[Game Guru]

Good points, I guess I am just surpised MS has made move after move and Sony, other then a couple bundles has stayed steadfast and really not done much of anything deal wise. I guess if you look at it another way it's impressive they are still outselling x1 most months. What happens when sony does make a a bigger push with a price cut, better deals? Sony in that regard is in a much better position. They have more cards t play.

For Sony to start making moves against MS, XB1 would have to outsell PS4 for enough consecutive months in a row for it to outsell the PS4 in the US. PS4 already has everywhere else on lock. Otherwise, Sony will just work on their own schedule in terms of price drops and deals.

It's all about perception of value as well.

A lot of people jumped on the $349 deal during the holiday to get the X1 for games they wanted to play. $499 or $399 just didn't have that same value perception as the competition was equally priced or cheaper.

This is true. I imagine the majority of people who own an XB1 own it instead of a PS4 because they like the exclusives that XB1 has compared to PS4's. Conversely, people buying the PS4 don't care for its exclusives, but know that PS4 is the better machine for the multiplatform games they play and might pick up exclusives as well.

 

[Doctor Professional]

It's all about perception of value as well.

A lot of people jumped on the $349 deal during the holiday to get the X1 for games they wanted to play. $499 or $399 just didn't have that same value perception as the competition was equally priced or cheaper.

Well I think its more brand then value since at launch a $500 Xbox managed to gain over 3 million. I think the price was dropped at the right time before more people switched over. It worked, surprisingly.

Only question is will the early $349 drop hurt their ability to drop further? I mean say ps4 does $299, could ms drop to $299 or would they be forced to wait.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Well I think its more brand then value since at launch a $500 Xbox managed to gain over 3 million. I think the price was dropped at the right time before more people switched over. It worked, surprisingly.

The Wii U also sold in over 3 million (worldwide) in less than 2 months and look how that turned out. The reason the PS4, Wii U and Xbox One all broke records in their first couple of months was due to the pent up demand from the prior generation.

When you look at sales of the Xbox One after that initial period they're nothing special until we start seeing the price drops kick in. It's a mixture of both brand and value at play, but what caused the Xbox One to win the holidays was mostly price. Had the Xbox One been $499 then the brand aspect would not have been strong enough, in my opinion at least, for the Xbox One to exceed PS4 sales during the holiday in the US.

 

[Blanquito]

Note how he ended his last comment with "it's a misunderstanding and I apologize in advance". That is something Microsoft Chad said a lot before he got perma'd.

To be fair, MS Chad did win the month....

 

[slavesnyder]

Well I think its more brand then value since at launch a $500 Xbox managed to gain over 3 million. I think the price was dropped at the right time before more people switched over. It worked, surprisingly.

Only question is will the early $349 drop hurt their ability to drop further? I mean say ps4 does $299, could ms drop to $299 or would they be forced to wait.

No, I am sure they will wait and stay with $349 when PS4 drops to $299.

 

[KillerSloth]

For Sony to start making moves against MS, XB1 would have to outsell PS4 for enough consecutive months in a row for it to outsell the PS4 in the US. PS4 already has everywhere else on lock. Otherwise, Sony will just work on their own schedule in terms of price drops and deals.



This is true. I imagine the majority of people who own an XB1 own it instead of a PS4 because they like the exclusives that XB1 has compared to PS4's. Conversely, people buying the PS4 don't care for its exclusives, but know that PS4 is the better machine for the multiplatform games they play and might pick up exclusives as well.

I just see it as a missed opportunity to keep more momentum of their side, grow the user base in the most lucritive market. PS plus subs and software is where most of profits come from.

Sony does not need to win the US to win this gen. microsoft, on the other hand needs the US market at all cost.
so, Sony is not urged to follow all crazy moves the Xbox division does to stay relevant. and instead play it cool and make money.

But a bigger install base, taking more share from MS in their home country, would end up more profoitble in the long run wouldn't it? Neither company makes much on hardware.

 

[Doctor Professional]

No, I am sure they will wait and stay with $349 when PS4 drops to $299.

The most I think they may do is around $299 select holiday deals along with $329, but still keep the price $349. I mean looking at $400 fotr the 1tb instead of $350 to me shows they can't drop anymore in the near future.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

Yup, whilst the Xbox brand has lost some its appeal due to the botched launch. The brand still holds a lot of power in the USA and is still the default gaming brand of choice for a number of people.

Take the average parent for example, they don't know about the Xbox One launch, they don't know about the games, they don't know about gaming in general. What they do know is that their child/family had an Xbox 360 and that this Christmas the Xbox One is at a good affordable price. Now that's just one example of many, but brand and pricr plays a big part among decision makers.



Yeh, pretty much

The average parent probably also didn't know about the 180s on the whole DRM thing. That information seems to percolate slowly.

 

[KillerSloth]

The average parent probably also didn't know about the 180s on the whole DRM thing. That information seems to percolate slowly.

I think some of you are not giving playstation enough credit either...360 benefited greatly from having a full year on the market by itself, which gave it defacto exclusives for awhile, and a price advantage all gen...too big a hole to clinb out of for PS3...Launch the same time as x1 alone was going to give PS4 a much better footing then x1, Playstation dominated the US for over a decade before. That as well played a role.

Worldwide ps4 launching the same time as X1 was always going to be an uphill battle for x1.

 

[Chobel]

The most I think they may do is around $299 select holiday deals along with $329, but still keep the price $349. I mean looking at $400 fotr the 1tb instead of $350 to me shows they can't drop anymore in the near future.

Big part of why they're doing well now is because they have price advantage against PS4. They lose that and things could change dramatically.

And 1tb is $400 because they can't price it the same price as 500gb SKU, otherwise no one will buy 500gb SKU.

 

[PoweredByHentai]

I think some of you are not giving playstation enough credit either...360 benefited greatly from having a full year on the market by itself, which gave it defacto exclusives for awhile, and a price advantage all gen...too big a hole to clinb out of for PS3...Launch the same time as x1 alone was going to give PS4 a much better footing then x1, Playstation dominated the US for over a decade before. That as well played a role.

Worldwide ps4 launching the same time as X1 was always going to be an uphill battle for x1.

The PlayStation brand has always been strong. I don't think this was ever an issue. What mattered more was that the Xbox brand made some colossal mistakes that have lingering effects.

Put it this way, 2 years after MS's monumental failure at E3 2013 and my manager is still asking me if the Xbone is still a DRM machine from hell. This is considering that I work at a medical device company.

 

[Grimgrillz]

For Sony to start making moves against MS, XB1 would have to outsell PS4 for enough consecutive months in a row for it to outsell the PS4 in the US. PS4 already has everywhere else on lock. Otherwise, Sony will just work on their own schedule in terms of price drops and deals.

The bolded part. I think the UK PS Boss said something I found very interesting about EU but it got lost in the post E3 hype. He was talking about marketing but also let slip a nugget of sales percentage that I think deserves attention.

Certainly in the UK, it’s still rather close [when compared to Xbox One sales], but we have been edging ahead every month. But across Europe, it’s fair to say we’re beating [Microsoft] by a considerable margin. Once you get into that position, the popularity of a console can start to become its selling point. So when you look at what drives sales of a console, obviously exclusive games do help, but if you have 75 to 80 percent of the market, it makes the system easier to sell.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...her-thinks-considering-partnerships/#/slide/1

 

[Doctor Professional]

Big part of why they're doing well now is because they have price advantage against PS4. They lose that and things could change dramatically.

And 1tb is $400 because they can't price it the same price as 500gb SKU, otherwise no one will buy 500gb SKU.

No.

What I meant was 1tb being $350 and 500gb being $299, I'm assuming that didn't happen because they dropped the price to early.

 

[Chobel]

No.

What I meant was 1tb being $350 and 500gb being $299, I'm assuming that didn't happen because they dropped the price to early.

Many possible reasons why they're not doing this price cut now:

1) They already selling well, no need for more price cuts yet.
2) Summer is bad time for price cuts. Plus Fall is usually the best time to do it, so most likely their next price cut is around Halo 5.
3) PS4 is still $50 more expensive, so they're waiting for PS4 price cut before reacting.

 

[Doctor Professional]

Many possible reasons why they're not doing this price cut now:

1) They already selling well, no need for more price cuts yet.
2) Summer is bad time for price cuts. Plus Fall is usually the best time to do it, so most likely their next price cut is around Halo 5.
3) PS4 is still $50 more expensive, so they're waiting for PS4 price cut before reacting.

Selling well? I think that's an unknown until they finally release sales info. But otherwise I agree.

But I do wonder about a reaction though
I think doing it after the PS4 may not benefit to well. I think their best bet is to do it first. But not too far ahead.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Cross post from When can we reasonably expect a PS4 price drop?

For this FY Sony is forecasting increased hw sales (from 14.8 million to 16 million) with less than half of the profits of previous FY (from ¥48 billion to ¥20 billion). There will be absolutely a price cut this year. I will eat my hat if there isn't.

This is an interesting point. Not sure if sales and profits are directly related, or if some R&D is hitting the books this year that didn't last year.

I think doing it after the PS4 may not benefit to well. I think their best bet is to do it first. But not too far ahead.

Are you even bothering to read what you're writing or are you just going for the highest post count you can? This is gibberish.

 

[Doctor Professional]

Cross post from When can we reasonably expect a PS4 price drop?



This is an interesting point. Not sure if sales and profits are directly related, or if some R&D is hitting the books this year that didn't last year.



Are you even bothering to read what you're writing or are you just going for the highest post count you can? This is gibberish.

It's pretty clear to me, in the event that Ms saves a price drop until after the ps4 does for $299 that will probably end up not doing too much for x1. If they cut before they can gain momentum and it'll make sonys less impressive.

Basically if xb1 cuts last it'll probably do more harm then good given their position imo.

 

[Chobel]

Cross post from When can we reasonably expect a PS4 price drop?



This is an interesting point. Not sure if sales and profits are directly related, or if some R&D is hitting the books this year that didn't last year.



Are you even bothering to read what you're writing or are you just going for the highest post count you can? This is gibberish.

+28 billion yen (+$226m) in just one year seems like a lot for a new R&D.

 

[CrashSimonFaye]

Are there any ballpark WW LTD numbers for the systems anywhere by chance?

 

[theprodigy]

Are there any ballpark WW LTD numbers for the systems anywhere by chance?

probably aren't gonna get one for anything other than the PS4 (assuming you mean actual sellthrough)

....unless John Harker wants to help out here?

 

[A_Gorilla]

The fact that AC, Battlefront, and now even CoD have deals with Sony now instead of MS shows just how important the US market is for MS to hold on to.

 

[Doctor Professional]

The fact that AC, Battlefront, and now even CoD have deals with Sony now instead of MS shows just how important the US market is for MS to hold on to.

Please remember, In terms of cod, this is the same country where the 360 version of the game outsold all other versions despite a focus on next Gen and being 40% down.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Please remember, In terms of cod, this is the same country where the 360 version of the game outsold all other versions despite a focus on next Gen and being 40% down.

Doesn't matter now that PS4 & PS3 have 1 month exclusives for DLC and Beta so that's gonna change. People will shift, not because of the DLC but because of temptation of having everything first.

 

[slavesnyder]

Please remember, In terms of cod, this is the same country where the 360 version of the game outsold all other versions despite a focus on next Gen and being 40% down.

Seems like COD is played by a lot of people who did not yet update (or never will, who knows). But this was a year ago and I am sure things have changed. would be really strange if this happened once again.
I think that even with marketing deal, DLC and Beta the split will be very close between PS4 and XboxOne, with PS4 leading. But even if it was 50/50 at the end this should be frightening for Xbox as they lost one of their top-associated franchises.

 

[Game Guru]

The bolded part. I think the UK PS Boss said something I found very interesting about EU but it got lost in the post E3 hype. He was talking about marketing but also let slip a nugget of sales percentage that I think deserves attention.

Certainly in the UK, it’s still rather close [when compared to Xbox One sales], but we have been edging ahead every month. But across Europe, it’s fair to say we’re beating [Microsoft] by a considerable margin. Once you get into that position, the popularity of a console can start to become its selling point. So when you look at what drives sales of a console, obviously exclusive games do help, but if you have 75 to 80 percent of the market, it makes the system easier to sell.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...her-thinks-considering-partnerships/#/slide/1

Exactly, XB1 seems to only be selling to the most loyal Xbox fans which are mostly in the US and UK. Everywhere and everyone else has gone for the PS4.

 

[Chobel]

The power of 3rd party games marketing vs the power of Halo 5... who would win?

 

[Sangetsu-II]

The power of 3rd party games marketing vs the power of Halo 5... who would win?

Depends how hardcore fans of the Halo lore feel about Halo 5, have heard some mixed reviews about the campaign they showed at E3 that and the CoD MP feel.

343 has it's work cut out for them but if MS can promote it right it's probably gonna be tied.

 

[Welfare]

The power of 3rd party games marketing vs the power of Halo 5... who would win?

If this were 2007 I'd say Halo, but now... :/

Halo 5 will definitely pull in consumers but Black Ops 3 and Battlefront marketing for PS4 will be a blow, especially when a PS4 price cut is announced.

 

[Chobel]

If this were 2007 I'd say Halo, but now... :/

Halo 5 will definitely pull in consumers but Black Ops 3 and Battlefront marketing for PS4 will be a blow, especially when a PS4 price cut is announced.

I forgot about the pricing, and MS is gonna destroy Sony on that front. Damn it! We'll never know who wins: 3rd party or Halo 5.

 

[slavesnyder]

I forgot about the pricing, and MS is gonna destroy Sony on that front. Damn it! We'll never know who wins: 3rd party or Halo 5.

I will never doubt Sony 3rd parties again.

 

[Chobel]

I will never doubt Sony 3rd parties again.

I'll never doubt the Microsoft's "desperation".

 

[Sangetsu-II]

I will never doubt Sony 3rd parties again.

haha funny, wish people could have multiple tags instead of just one.

Edit: Teoridically it can be done if a mod leaves a line in between each tag

 

[Welfare]

haha funny, wish people could have multiple tags instead of just one.

Chobel
I will never doubt Sony again

All it needs.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Are there any ballpark WW LTD numbers for the systems anywhere by chance?

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/jabbamk1/WW 313_zpstzm0h8hn.jpg

 

[Chobel]

Chobel
I will never doubt Sony again

All it needs.

Oh I know what to do: I'll eat my hat if Sony wins November or December NPD.

I'm sure this one will get me that tag.

Spoiler

And yeah, I'm joking. So back off Sangetsu-II

 

[Welfare]

Oh I know what to do: I'll eat my hat if Sony wins November or December NPD.

I'm sure this one will get me that tag.

Spoiler

And yeah, I'm joking. So back off Sangetsu-II

Huh, what's that? I don't read spoilers

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Oh I know what to do: I'll eat my hat if Sony wins November or December NPD.

I'm sure this one will get me that tag.

Spoiler

And yeah, I'm joking. So back off Sangetsu-II

HAHA!, Will still get you the tag though, even if you don't wanna eat your hat xD

 

[slavesnyder]

I'll never doubt the Microsoft's "desperation".

Enough of this foolish foolishness.
Back to topic: I understand your line of thinking and I guess you are right.
If Microsoft sees that the gap they tried to close with all means is widening again faster than expected during off-season thanks to batman,
and if it appears that in the end many consumers think that if you have COD/Battlefront you do not need another 1st person shooter with Halo any more,
this will be interesting.

 

[Max_Po]

God damn, Splatoon. Legendary performance there.

Hyperbola..? nice "legendary" avatar ....

 

[Prototype Viktor]

haha funny, wish people could have multiple tags instead of just one.

Edit: Teoridically it can be done if a mod leaves a line in between each tag

If only animated tags existed here, he'd get the old PS3 ad for "Will never doubts ____" then it swaps out Sony IP's, Sony 3rd parties, MS desperation, Your love for me"