-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NPD Sales Results for November 2015 [Up3: Combined Hardware For PS4 + XB1 + Wii U]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Primethius
Banned
The Battlefront numbers seem to paltry, especially when compared to the big hitters from last gen.
Has anything really taken off this gen aside from CoD in terms of player count? I can't think of any title.
Has anything really taken off this gen aside from CoD in terms of player count? I can't think of any title.
Destiny
Primethius
Banned
Do we have player counts for Destiny?
I know it sold a lot, but I doubt the concurrent user numbers are particularly high/impressive.
Primethius
Banned
Oh sorry, I was thinking concurrent numbers (or even total daily users).
Since data tends to be limited, either one works for drawing comparisons.
Have discreet graphics card purchases gone down over the years, or what? As someone who used to play a lot of BF2, it amazes me how much the big shooters outside of CS have migrated to consoles.
It's more the type of game. Battlefield series is doing alright on PC.
I also think CS is bigger than ever. Even 10-15 years ago, which is what I would have considered the CS hey-day, it didn't pull those great numbers.
That's what he is saying.
With north of 125 million "active" Steam accounts (as of Feb 2015), that number seems really, really low.
And I'm saying that CS in 2015 is the anomaly when looking at concurrent users in shooters in PC history.
It wasn't 40 million FPS fans that migrated to consoles.
Doesn't it remain true that years ago, FPS used to be a genra associated to PC gaming, and now it is hugely lopsided in favor of consoles?
Wonder what triggered the switch? Exclusives like Halo3 (Halo 2 had its share of shennanigans with Win Vista), dedicated multiplayer options, or COD4 MW2 for some reason?
Genuinely curious, as I am not big into the FPS genra.
COD4 seems like the game that initiated the migration.
And I don't believe there ever was much of a migration. Microsoft created the majority of the packaged goods shooter buying audience and served it well on Xbox. (And they still do, even if Halo has been trending downwards for the last few entries.)
The numbers that COD and Halo 3 specifically pulled were not previously on another platform. They built that audience.
The numbers that COD and Halo 3 specifically pulled were not previously on another platform. They built that audience.
Racing is set for a huge resurgance with electric drone cars. People like crashes but not dead drivers. So I can see Robo-Forza selling big. It'll be kinda boring though because the cars will drive themselves.
The lack of RPG shit doomed it. AAA gamers are so addicted to the non-skill based randomized rewards of operant game systems that it was doomed.
It's not burnout in my opinion. There are more than enough gameplay and presentation differences between Horizon and Motorsport that they are pretty much two separate series. I relate it to NBA Street vs. NBA Live during the PS2 gen (two basketball game series that shared the EA name but had a ton of differences between each other).
As people have already brought up, the racing genre in America is simply going downhill in popularity. The Xbox brand pretty much only doing well in America (and U.K.) adds on to this fact even more. Forza wasn't a huge series last gen either (despite what some other people may say). Forza Motorsport 6 would more than likely be in its current sales position even if Forza Horizon 2 never released.
But, MS will keep on supporting Forza to help system sells as it makes the Xbox more attractive to people interested in racers (Xbox One is a great system if you are a racing game fan) and to simply have an answer to whatever Sony does with the Gran Turismo series.
I believe Sony's Paris Game Week conference pretty much confirmed that the game will be coming to Xbox One. They showed it off before the "PS4 exclusives" section. The PS4 version of Tekken 7 will have exclusive content though.
I will more than likely get it for PS4 simply for the bigger online userbase (though the extra content isn't going to hurt). Well, that is unless my friends get Tekken 7 too; Doubt it since they really aren't into fighting games that much.
slavesnyder
Member
This.
Problem is: Gran Tourismo is released two or three times per decade. Like this it stays an event fans can wait for impatiently.
Forza comes around every year, and if it's called this or that doesn't really matter. It's a car driving simulator. And if you miss it you might not have missed much compared to last year.
It is just not the same as with football, basketball, soccer or (sniff) tennis, where you have constantly new players, looks, teams and stats. This is what people convince to buy them every year.
People laugh at how long it takes to develop every GT game. In the end it's part of the fascination, keeps it rare and seems like the better strategy for me.
Forza could need a break (sic), mqybe let the team make a kart, boat or whatever racer for one year at least and really bring back something that feels fresh and exciting after that.
I disagree. There are enough differences between Motorsport and Horizon to cater to completely difference audiences. Motorsport is the true simulator. There are people who don't like sim racers that only enjoy Horizon and there are people who love sim racers/Motorsport and don't like the "hip" style of Horizon. The launch of Forza games are still events. I do agree that Gran Turismo launches are bigger events due to how long it takes for them to come out though. I view it as a good and bad thing since I love sim racers and would be pretty bummed out from waiting so long for a solid console sim racer if the PS4 was the only console I had. On top of this, Gran Turismo 5 was disappointing. Waiting so long last gen to get that wasn't a good thing in my opinion.
I simply just want good games. While Forza Motorsport 5 was a bit disappointing, it was still a decent game and Forza Horizon 2 and Motorsport 6 have completely blown that game away. I could live with a Forza break since those two games are so good. While there's not much room to make another Motorsport feel completely fresh, I feel that there is room to make a new Horizon feel fresh. I would be hyped if they put Horizon 3 in an open world that's based on areas like NYC or Tokyo.
If they truly release a good racing game there is really no need to release another two years down the line with minimal improvements. Instead they could offer updates to the game they have and save the retail release for major overhauls. The idea of releasing a game in the same franchise with very little on the way of advancement seems incredibly counterproductive to the health of the series. It makes it seem increasingly derivative.
But that's the model that FIFA uses. And very successful too.
Clearly Forza is not able to replicate the growth that FIFA has seen in the last 6 years but the model of releasing a new game yearly with minor improvements can work sometimes.
DriftingSpirit
Member
You have to remove what you like from the equation though. If it was truly just about releasing good games, the Forza series would surely be performing better. I do think there is something to the GT method that has proven more successful. The worst selling mainline GT is at 4.7M+ sold and I assume that is above anything Forza has done.
Making each release a big event that sees upgrades and what not over the years into the next major release may be a better model for racers now.
Making each release a big event that sees upgrades and what not over the years into the next major release may be a better model for racers now.
Traditional sports games get away with it because there is very little in the way of competition in the genre and they can claim they are the "official" game for the sport with all the perks that entails. Racing games have neither of these. There is lots of competition in the genre and no racing game can claim to be "official" with any sort of actual authority. I just don't see them as being comparable.
Well next year Gran Turismo can claim that because of the FIA association.
My point was more that in games there are various business models and associated release schedules.
I totally buy the argument that Forza is likely to use the wrong business or release schedule model for their reception. They claim a huge headcount whenever there is a PR cycle and they get 2 years per game in the US at this point, so it can't be cheap.
Maybe it's more optimal from a ROI perspective to switch to a DLC oriented model.
But I'm with Bgamer90 here, as long as they continue to make games that are good it doesn't matter. It still fills the software portfolio. If the teams that work on Forza like to work on Forza then let Spencer pay for more Forza.
If the team wants to try some new stuff, then I would of course rather that Spencer funds something that is a bit different. (Like Criterion that is being rebuilt with the extreme sports angle.)
Die Squirrel Die
Member
My gut feeling has always been that game representing team sports work withing this model because of the constantly updating team rosters. I don't know what the US or elsewhere is like but here in the UK transfer season in football is headline news, as players get bought and sold. I think that makes team sport videogames more resilient to franchise fatigue.
Taking individual sports such as tennis or golf, where the roster of players is more fixed year to year and they don't hold quite as well, although Tiger Woods had a strong run for a while, it's since faded.
Well next year Gran Turismo can claim that because of the FIA association.
Meh I still think it boils down more to franchise names than the actual sport itself. You have to establish and build a brand people respect in the genre because there is so much competition. Whereas traditional sports games tend to sell overwhelmingly to fans of the sports with very little regard to the game franchise involved with the caveat when the franchise obtains the "official" seal.
This is also a really good point. It hadn't really occurred to me but I think you're right. The only equivalent for roster updates in the racing genre would be new car models but oftentimes it's the older models that are the most used and desired and most newer models seem to have very little draw for the majority of fans.
Boombloxer
Member
You're probably going to have to buy one anyway, as that's where the most and best players will be.
GT releases are events. Gt5, as flawed as it was (and it still felt ridiculously robust even if it had some ps2 cars), was an event for me. It was like monumental. Just the timing of releases and the way polyphony covers all their games in classy jazz music made it feel so special.
GT6 was such a good game. Shame about the performance in 1080p but that game had so much packed in. Truly great.
GT6 was such a good game. Shame about the performance in 1080p but that game had so much packed in. Truly great.
Yeah GT is still the premiere racing game and the closest to the "official" racing game like with sports games. Hopefully GT 7 or GT sport will help bring back some of that racing audience in the west.
What do you consider as good racing games this gen?
Forza 6 is the best pure racer I've played, though admittedly I haven't played Project Cars.
Regarding your last points CoD is still holding on well despite a lot of competition in that genre.
My statement wasn't to imply that Forza is not a good game but to say that if they release a good game they don't really need to release an incremental follow up two years down the line. The business model just doesn't make any sense.
My points were all made in the context of games within the "sports" vein. Last time I checked shooting people in the face wasn't a sport.... Yet.
This could be said about many games that are not of a digital download only scale these days though. And Forza 6 made far more improvements from its predecessor than many other series with multiple sequels. The only games in the series that weren't huge jumps from their predecessors were Forza 2 and 5 in my opinion.
______________________________
GT has been a popular game brand worldwide since the 1990s. Same is true for PlayStation period. Forza is newer in comparison and it's an exclusive on the newer game brand that isn't popular worldwide. Really doesn't have a whole lot to do with game release methods/patterns in my opinion.
GT games would probably sell just as well if they released every two years. Maybe even better considering GT6 launching after the PS4's launch hurt it. Many people also feel that GT was better for its time 10+ years ago-- back when the series had pretty regular releases (pretty much one GT game every 2 years).
Such as? The only improvements I'm aware of were adding wet weather conditions and new tracks/cars. Consequently a competitor in the genre (Driveclub) released both of those things as updates to their game. The Driveclub model makes a lot more sense when you consider the shrinking market for these games. Most would be far more likely to plop money down for extra content on the XB1 Forza game than they are to purchase a new numbered sequel biennially. You can still have 2 or more Forza games over the course of the gen but unless it is a major revision or overhaul I just don't see why you couldn't offer these smaller updates/tweaks as part of premium Season pass program. It just seems far more appropriate given the size of audience. It maximizes the ARPU and further minimizes cost while also allowing for consistent development.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Regular predictable releases just do not have the same draw. Most do not get excited about getting an iterative follow up every two years. I believe that a longer development window accompanied by consistent content updates and support would be much more successful. There is a reason Forza is literally the only biennially released racing franchise nowadays. Everybody else moved away from that kind of model presumably because it just isn't feasible for the genre anymore.
But we will never know either way because it's never going to happen.
Thanks for clarifying.
Have you played the games? Car handling and the driving engine itself has been greatly improved over Forza 5. There's far more improvements that were made to Forza 6 than just what advertisers pushed to be used for the "back of the box". Revamped career mode (taking a few ideas/features from Horizon), double the amount of cars on tracks, improved A.I., car damage. It doesn't feel like a "Forza 5 update" at all in my opinion.
Not sure. Since the racing genre here in America is getting even more niche, it seems like most who are interested in racing games at this point are the bigger fans. I wouldn't mind updates at all but overall, I simply want good games. I wouldn't see much difference in (say) multiple updates that I have to pay for vs. a new $60 game every two years since I would pretty much be paying around the same amount of money in the end. Forza games have received free updates and priced DLC too in recent years so maybe they are seeing if that model will work in the future.
I'm positive that the most popular series on consoles are "new iteration in < 2 years" vs. "new iteration in > 3 years".
Yep no worries sorry I wasn't clear enough the first time around.
No I haven't played Forza 6. Everything you've listed seems pretty minor to me. I don't see why these things couldn't carry over to the idea I proposed. Everything you've listed outside of perhaps the revamped campaign could have been delivered as a title update. But even the campaign could have been released a s a "Forza year two" package or something. It just doesn't make a strong enough argument for repurchase given the short turn around for me and going by the numbers it seems I'm not the only one.
The difference is that it remains a top shelf product for longer. The majority is far more likely to play and continue playing a game that sees iterative updates and tweaks over the course of its life cycle than a game that doesn't. There's also the matter of defeating the existing player base across multiple releases decreasing the total pool of players to draw from. When you account for the potential profits garnered from Microtransactions and paid DLC along with the decreased cost of publishing and printing new retail releases its seems like a no brainer to me. You think it's a coincidence that both Driveclub and GT Sport look to follow a similar model? You think it's a coincidence that all the other racing sim games are offering title updates and paid DLC with a longer game cycle? There is a reason for that. The market that exists for these games cannot sustain the cost of biennial retail releases. The profit just isn't there.
BGamer, you know I love ya man and I mean no disrespect but are you really equating the mainstream FPS market with the Racing Sim market? That's nonsense man. One has enough popularity with the mainstream to sustain frequent releases the other does not. It's as simple as that.
I don't understand why the idea of creating content and updates to help subsidize longer development turn arounds is such an objectionable idea. It's worked remarkably well for Destiny and Driveclub. Seems to me it would work really well with Forza too.
In case it wasn't already clear this is not a "I hate Forza and it should cease to exist" comment it is a "Forza is struggling to remain relevant and/or profitable thanks to vastly depleted market so clearly a new strategy is required" post.
SneakersSO
Member
The fact that Namco (and a few other publishers) have discussed games as being multiplatform, whilst only confirming a PS4 version atm, points more to there being an NX version sometime in the future. Especially from Japanese publishers. I'm just at the point where I have zero expectation that Tekken 7 will appear on Xbox One atm.
Primethius
Banned
When is the PS4 version slated? Or do we not have a date?
SneakersSO
Member
2016 is the only date we have for the PS4 version, thus far.
edit:
I'm wrong - Harada only announced a PS4 version was on the way. Never gave a date. And says it'll be after the Arcade release. So again, 2016 seems to be the earliest window possible. It was announced at PGW at the Sony Presser:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/10/27/tekken-7-coming-to-playstation-4-with-exclusive-content
Interesting to note - unlike other games that were multiplatform that were announced at Sony's presser, Namco didn't come out with a press release afterwards stating the intended release platforms of Tekken 7 (like Kingdom Hearts 3 & FFXV).
Primethius
Banned
Hmmm, no date points to a late 2016 release which indicates an NX version to me.
I still think it'll come to XB1. Though I don't know how the series has typically sold on consoles.
I doubt that. The NX would probably have no where near the install base the Xbox one has by the time Tekken comes out and the audience for Tekken probably aren't buying Nintendo consoles to play it
Disagree about it being minor. I mean, the features I've mentioned are bigger than what many racing games add for sequels. And as I said earlier, the same title update argument can be stated for pretty much any series these days. A game feeling like a minor update (which again, Forza 6 doesn't in my opinion) is different from discussing the possibility of a sequel's features/improvements simply being in an update in my opinion.
Burnout Paradise with all of its updates for example felt like a sequel in comparison to how the game was when it originally launched and this game came out last gen. With updates/patches being even bigger this gen, I'm sure that pretty much every series with regular releases could be turned into games that just got regular updates throughout this gen.
I would not say this as a fact. It depends on how well the game is received as well as how many other options there are of the same genre on the console that game is for. The PS4 not having many racers is definitely helping Driveclub's updates get more attention. A racing game can get updates for the whole gen without a same-gen sequel but I wouldn't care if there are different (more recent) racing games that are far better.
I don't think it's a coincidence at all (never said it was in the first place). My point was that I don't think this model would help Forza in any way since its genre has become niche in the most relevant territory of the Xbox brand (America). I don't think the number of people who would get excited about (say) $20 Forza updates every eight or so months would be much greater than the number of people who get excited about a new iteration of Forza Motorsport every two years.
Your point about online player bases decreasing doesn't make sense to me either (unless I read it wrong). Wouldn't regular paid updates segment the online user base at a more rapid rate vs. new (full game) releases every two years? Wouldn't the people who don't pay for the latest update not have the ability to race against people who do? These updates would have to be free to not have much impact on number of players to play against which pretty much defeats the reason we are having this discussion right (ways for racing series to be more successful this gen)?
No; wasn't doing that at all. I was responding to what you said about "regular predictable releases". You were just talking about the racing genre (and not video games as a whole)? My mistake then.
I'm now a bit confused after what you said in your previous sentence since you brought up Destiny (a shooter) -- and isn't Destiny 2 being planned for a Fall 2016 release anyway?
SneakersSO
Member
If Tekken 7 is theoretically a launch title, then I think it's irrelevant what the initial NX install base is, at least to Namco anyway. Considering Namco & Nintendo have had great relations as of late (Namco helped develop Smash 4, Namco is creating Pokken), I think the only assumption one could make from a publisher stating a title is multiplatform, but not stating what platforms it intends to release the software on is a good sign that its release plans likely include a system that isn't out yet, while also not including a system that is already available.
Primethius
Banned
NX has the potential for other markets, Japan primarily. A launch title on the NX could pull decent numbers me thinks.
ultratruman
Banned
Is it sad that I got excited when I saw this, thinking it was real?
I could see Tekken 7 releasing on NX. It wouldn't make sense to me for it to come out on that and NOT the Xbox One though considering how Tekken Tag 2 did on the Wii U. I hope the NX will do better but it doesn't seem like a smart idea to release the game during the early life of a console that's probably going to be risky for games outside of Nintendo's and not a console that already has a good sized user base (Xbox One).
SneakersSO
Member
It also depends on what their estimated sales projections for an X1 version could be, versus the development costs of said version. Did Tekken 6 or TTT2 even do well on X360? So far, we haven't even gotten confirmation of a PC version, which if it were happening, I would just assume an X1 version to be released at some point, at the very least digitally.
I think the most suspect/daming part about this whole thing is Namco have gone almost 2 months and not even bothered to clarify a potential X1 release, and yet they're pursuing PSVR content with Tekken 7.
I remember the PS3 versions doing better but I don't believe the 360 versions were complete flops either.
Has there been any more recent information about Tekken that came after Paris Game Week?
SneakersSO
Member
Yes, there was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5nxtsmZW2s
Tekken 7: Fated Retribution will be the 'full' arcade release, which going by series tradition, will be the release that console players will get as 'Tekken 7'. The Akuma & version announcement was at a Tekken-centric event, and Harada was there - every opportunity to further announce or further elaborate on console release plans.