Support NeoGAF

[Belgorim]

Yowch you must've failed elementary math quite a few times.
383.2/2 = 191.6 !~ 286.3 it would be more like 3/4s of the way there.

what sionyboy said.

 

[D.Lo]

stuff

Didn't mind your point, but this:

The second game was already showing serious fatigue in sales, and to top it off was (by most accounts) underwhelming or poor in quality, which will have a diminishing effect on the next itteration.

92% rating on gamerankings? Even then dragged down a bit by gamerankings bewildering policy of allowing reviews of games years after their release to count (and thus with a much different perspective to your average review, possibly with an agenda).

yup, my thoughts exactly. putting a number like '3' on a smaller series is enough of a death wish already. Add the fact that there was really no reasone to continue the Prime story in sequence (since it wasn't very compelling as a whole) and they could've just named the title "Metroid: Corruption". keep the plot the same, with Dark Samus and all, the Prime fans will know what's going on, but the people who missed number 2 won't be afraid of skipping to Corruption. The game was very forgiving to people new to the series, but they wouldn't realise it form the title.

I thought Nintendo of all people understood this, seeing as half of the reason "New" Super Mario Bros was such a succes is because it was very well named, and the Zeldas have smartly avoided numerals

Totally.

My personal gripes about the game aside (a beautiful, brilliantly designed game going for an 'epic' feel, with such a wishy-washy main story [although the lore and history bits were still good] and anti-climactic ending?), the naming of the 'Prime trilogy+Hunters' was a mistake as soon as they put a 2 in Echoes. Why they weren't just called 'Metroid: Echoes' 'Metroid: Hunters' and 'Metroid: Corruption' I'll never know, as the series seemed to have ditched numbers for main titles already (Super, Fusion, Prime etc).

It's like they were desperate to put numbers in the titles just because everyone else loves their numbered sequels.

 

[No6]

With decent holiday sales and an eventual player's choice release (like the original got) there's no reason why it couldn't. It should have no problems besting MP2 in any case.

What makes you think the million or so new Wii owners who didn't buy MP3 over the last couple months are suddenly going to do so in November? Further, I really don't think a game eventually selling a bit more at bargain pricing makes a strong case for good sales.

Metroid is not a franchise that everyone likes, the first Metroid Prime sold purely on hype alone but like someone else said here, half the people that bought it didn't like it because they didn't understand it. Its a very slow game and even a lot of Metroid lovers didn't like it. That the sales went down is only natural.

That's not what the ninfans in the pre-release threads would have us believe. MP3 was a highly rated game with a control system that apparently "ruins" dual-analog for many people, was "better looking than Bioshock's plastic land", etc, etc, but most importantly, the only "hardcore" game on the system since RE4. What else was there for the Wii gamer audience to buy that month?

First of all, bullshit. The rationality is that people want the Wii because of the games it has. Guitar Hero 3, Zelda, Metroid Prime, Red Steel, Resident Evil, and others have proved that the Wii is not just a system for casuals.

What "others" (and since when did GH become something other than a game that appeals to casuals?)?

 

[vanguardian1]

Metroid is not a franchise that everyone likes, the first Metroid Prime sold purely on hype alone but like someone else said here, half the people that bought it didn't like it because they didn't understand it. Its a very slow game and even a lot of Metroid lovers didn't like it. That the sales went down is only natural.

Sad but true. Every one of my friends who have tried it complain about it, thinking it should play more like a typical shooter.

Metroid Prime is one of my favorite games ever, didn't care for MP2, really enjoyed MP3, but I never enjoyed the Metroid games prior to the Prime series.

 

[mepaco]

What makes you think the million or so new Wii owners who didn't buy MP3 over the last couple months are suddenly going to do so in November? Further, I really don't think a game eventually selling a bit more at bargain pricing makes a strong case for good sales.

They won't, but some will. The first two iterations both made relatively slow crawls up to their eventual number, not big leaps. Why should we expect this one to perform any differently?

That's not what the ninfans in the pre-release threads would have us believe. MP3 was a highly rated game with a control system that apparently "ruins" dual-analog for many people, was "better looking than Bioshock's plastic land", etc, etc, but most importantly, the only "hardcore" game on the system since RE4. What else was there for the Wii gamer audience to buy that month?

Irrelevant. You can't judge the sales of a game by what the fanboys think it should sell. The sales numbers fall in line with historical data. And needless to say, unfortunately the quality of a game is not always reflected in its sales.

 

[Lathentar]

What makes you think the million or so new Wii owners who didn't buy MP3 over the last couple months are suddenly going to do so in November? Further, I really don't think a game eventually selling a bit more at bargain pricing makes a strong case for good sales.

It'll be Christmas and all game are going get a sales bump?

 

[ksamedi]

What makes you think the million or so new Wii owners who didn't buy MP3 over the last couple months are suddenly going to do so in November? Further, I really don't think a game eventually selling a bit more at bargain pricing makes a strong case for good sales.


That's not what the ninfans in the pre-release threads would have us believe. MP3 was a highly rated game with a control system that apparently "ruins" dual-analog for many people, was "better looking than Bioshock's plastic land", etc, etc, but most importantly, the only "hardcore" game on the system since RE4. What else was there for the Wii gamer audience to buy that month?

What "others" (and since when did GH become something other than a game that appeals to casuals?)?

Its doing better than 2, which means it did something right. Nintendo made it more accesible this time around but it still looks like a classic Prime experience (even though it really isn't). The game was never a big seller in the first place.

 

[plagiarize]

(and since when did GH become something other than a game that appeals to casuals?)?

since forever?

the guitar hero series does and has always appealed to casuals and hardcore gamers, just like GTA or Halo 3.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

What "others" (and since when did GH become something other than a game that appeals to casuals?)?

I disagree completely. Fire Emblem is the hardest console game I have played in the past three years and is also one of the best SRPGs ever made. Zack and Wiki has some of the best and most challenging/creative puzzles out of any game released in the past few years. Trauma Center, both the first and the new one out this week sport challenges that rival many other games this year in difficulty.

Understandably, these games don't match the big exclusives on the PS3/360 in hype level so I suppose they can be easy to overlook but in terms of quality and challenge, they are on equal footing with their HD and high budget counterparts and are unique to the Wii. And this is on top of the other big Nintendo made titles for the system. Its obvious that the Wii has a casual skew but there are a significant amount of core titles on the Wii and if your taste happens to trend towards those types of games, the Wii a lot more to offer than what you're implying.

 

[Flakster99]

It sold 2 million copies, the most of any Metroid. They had an opportunity for a fresh start with MP3 and they wasted it on the fans of the first two games. Look at it this way, I've got three friends (I know, anecdotal, lol) whom have bought Wii's that were PS2 owners. They've bought games like CoD3 + MoH:Vanguard, and they don't give a fuck about Metroid because Nintendo have created fuck all awareness for it. It's people like that that make me think Nintendo really missed the ball on this one.

Pretty much the same experience among my friends whom own a Wii. The marketing and awareness wasn't nearly enough, and they purchased other Wii hardcore games, FPS in it's place.

Thinking about it on another level, Nintendo's choice to market MP3 the way they did has inavertly (sp) given 3rd party software a boost.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

since forever?

the guitar hero series does and has always appealed to casuals and hardcore gamers, just like GTA or Halo 3.

Exactly, I think we all agree that to sell in excess of 7 million units there much be a large casual market picking it up.

 

[Deku]

Pretty much the same experience among my friends whom own a Wii. The marketing and awareness wasn't nearly enough, and they purchased other Wii hardcore games, FPS in it's place.

Thinking about it on another level, Nintendo's choice to market MP3 the way they did has invariably given 3rd party software a boost.

Their working premise is that the hardcore gamers will find those types of games. Casuals and the mass market needs to be prodded and carrot be dangled to get them to buy. Of course those two tend to converge with titles like Mario Galaxy.

To be honest, I think TV advertising is really more about making existing consumers feel good about their purchase as it is about creating awareness. It's the things fans notice the most if the weekly 'PS3 is being advertised OMGWTFBBQ ' threads here are any indication, and its value is a bit dubious.

Nintendo managed to sell Zelda TP at a nearly 1:1 ratio last year without advertising it specifially in their TV/theatre campaigns. Things like store placement, being part of the demo loop, being featured in fliers and simple availability at retail play a much larger role. In anycase, as was already noted, moving 400k LTD units sofar for MP3 is pretty good. It'll probably break 500k by the end of the year.

 

[dammitmattt]

First of all, bullshit. The rationality is that people want the Wii because of the games it has. Guitar Hero 3, Zelda, Metroid Prime, Red Steel, Resident Evil, and others have proved that the Wii is not just a system for casuals. I really can't wait for the day when GAF cuts the bullshit and admits that while the Wii has the casual market sewn up, that's not the only market that has interest in it. It is a system that has appeal for everyone, and like the PS2 before it, the hardware sales are reflecting that. This "It's not fair, they're not comparable" stuff is just pushing goal posts for foolish pride.

No, people want the Wii because it's the Wii. They like Wii Sports. Of course there are millions of serious gamers who own Wiis and they are buying the Metroids and Resident Evils, but there are also millions more who are buying the console, Wii Play, and maybe a Mario Party or Guitar Hero here and there.

No one is saying that the system is JUST for casual gamers. There is no need to get defensive. However, ask around at any retailer and they will tell you that most Wiis are being sold to moms and dads (i.e. the "typical" Wii buyer that I earlier referred to) for their kids. Also, these Wiis are oftentimes being put in the living room for the entire family to enjoy. Why in the world would I think it's bad to expand the industry so what is the comment regarding "foolish pride" all about?!?

Also, the Wii is NOT like the PS2 because the PS2 was a standard gaming system with a scary controller. The Wii appeals to a much broader audience and that's why it will likely best even the PS2's incredibly high worldwide sales. You don't get these kinds of sales unless you're mainly in the casual market.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Too optimistic, it would make sense for CoD4 to be more successful in the UK than US relative to Gears.

Why?

Call of Duty 2 and 3 were very popular here, and Gears of War was (until last week) the second-biggest launch for a 360 game in the UK. Out of the 4 million it sold, Gears has 'only' sold about 2.5 mil in the US right?

COD4 has several things going for it, including missing the big launch of MS' big IP (Halo 3) by over 6 weeks, amazing graphics, an insanely popular beta (which Gears never had), a more appealing setting (to the mass market), and a dedicated fanbase. If it has sold at least 900k worldwide a week before black Friday, I've no doubt it's going to be one of the top 2 games in November NPD.

 

[StevieP]

The overwhelming majority of PS2 owners were 'casual gamers' - see sales of Okami.

 

[No6]

They won't, but some will. The first two iterations both made relatively slow crawls up to their eventual number, not big leaps. Why should we expect this one to perform any differently?

Because there was nothing else competing for "core gamer" dollars on the Wii. Wii owners should have been starving for a AAA game. Instead they kept buying Wii Play and Mario Party.

I disagree completely. Fire Emblem is the hardest console game I have played in the past three years and is also one of the best SRPGs ever made. Zack and Wiki has some of the best and most challenging/creative puzzles out of any game released in the past few years. Trauma Center, both the first and the new one out this week sport challenges that rival many other games this year in difficulty.

The issue isn't that there aren't core gamer games (there are, although I think you rate Z&W too highly), but rather that they didn't sell. Yeah, we can point at Okami and say "see, it happens on the PS2 as well", but that's to be expected now and then. What isn't expected is for every single "core gamer" game released during October to bomb, and I strongly suspect the same will happen in November with FE, TC, and RE:UC (although no one should expect FE to do well).

And with GH3 I was saying that it also strongly appeals to casuals. It's a casual/party game that also appeals to the core gamer.

 

[BishopLamont]

MP3 is doing fine, it will not surprise me one bit if it eventually beat the MP1 in the end. It's already doing way better then MP2 and has done similar numbers to MP1 in August, while MP1 launched in November which is a stronger month, all this despite the juggernaut that is Halo 3.

 

[JJConrad]

MP3 is doing fine, it will not surprise me one bit if it eventually beat the MP1 in the end. It's already doing way better then MP2 and has done similar numbers to MP1 in August, while MP1 launched in November which is a stronger month, all this despite the juggernaut that is Halo 3.

Corruption is currently behind Echoes in sales after 3 months. However, it is selling several times faster than Echoes was after 3 months. If Corruption can sell 75k in the months of November and December (combined), it will have had caught back up to Echoes at the 5 month mark .... from there its not even another 250k to surpass Echoes entirely.

I believe that it still has a decent chance of surpassing MP1's LTD. It took Metroid Prime about a year to reach one million and then it was a very slow crawl from then on out. It ultimately willl come down to the strength of Corruptions legs as to whether or not it surpasses the first Prime game. Unfortunately, under the current reporting system, we will never know if it does.

 

[BishopLamont]

Corruption is currently behind Echoes in sales after 3 months. However, it is selling several times faster than Echoes was after 3 months. If Corruption can sell 75k in the months of November and December (combined), it will have had caught back up to Echoes at the 5 month mark .... from there its not even another 250k to surpass Echoes entirely.

I believe that it still has a decent chance of surpassing MP1's LTD. It took Metroid Prime about a year to reach one million and then it was a very slow crawl from then on out. It ultimately willl come down to the strength of Corruptions legs as to whether or not it surpasses the first Prime game. Unfortunately, under the current reporting system, we will never know if it does.

MP2 sold 200k and 270k in November and December respectively. So MP3 has basically did what MP2 did without the holiday boost. It will easily beat MP2 after all its said and done, but yeah it'll be a long crawl to beat MP1. I believe in it though since the Wii is still young and Nintendo franchises have great legs.

 

[ksamedi]

Because there was nothing else competing for "core gamer" dollars on the Wii. Wii owners should have been starving for a AAA game. Instead they kept buying Wii Play and Mario Party.

The issue isn't that there aren't core gamer games (there are, although I think you rate Z&W too highly), but rather that they didn't sell. Yeah, we can point at Okami and say "see, it happens on the PS2 as well", but that's to be expected now and then. What isn't expected is for every single "core gamer" game released during October to bomb, and I strongly suspect the same will happen in November with FE, TC, and RE:UC (although no one should expect FE to do well).

And with GH3 I was saying that it also strongly appeals to casuals. It's a casual/party game that also appeals to the core gamer.

So tell me, which games actually bombed? Prime 3 outperformes Prime 2, Resident Evil is supposedly doing good at retail, FE was never a big game to begin with, TC had some decent sales and this will probably do the same. Tell me, why did Halo do 3.3 million and Bioshock not even a Million? (eventually it may reach it). Yep, the hardcore games just have smaller markets. All the big sellers on 360 are casual pick up and play games.

 

[Shaheed79]

Or it could be that the majority of Wii owners are uninterested in quality non-party games (And please, don't pull the "Red Steel/RRR" argument, it's really weak) unless that game also contains either the word Mario or Zelda.

RE4 says your full of shit.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Because there was nothing else competing for "core gamer" dollars on the Wii. Wii owners should have been starving for a AAA game. Instead they kept buying Wii Play and Mario Party.

So the "hardcore" are supposed to buy every hardcore game regardless of taste? Do I turn in my hardcore badge if by some reason I didn't buy Metroid Prime? And by that same token, do I forfeit my "hardcore gamer" e-peen if I enjoy a game like Wii Sports? These games don't have some birthright because of the market they appeal to, we shouldn't rate them that way.

The issue isn't that there aren't core gamer games (there are, although I think you rate Z&W too highly), but rather that they didn't sell. Yeah, we can point at Okami and say "see, it happens on the PS2 as well", but that's to be expected now and then. What isn't expected is for every single "core gamer" game released during October to bomb, and I strongly suspect the same will happen in November with FE, TC, and RE:UC (although no one should expect FE to do well).

I assure you we won't be seeing Fire Emblem on the top 10 next month. Does that mean it will be a bomb? Assuredly not. RE: UC has a target of 600000 worldwide, so again, if we don't see it in the top 10, that doesn't necessarily see it as a bomb. Even Nintendo, when asked about the sales of Metroid, said that they were very happy with the results. TC didn't come anywhere near the top 10 when it first debuted on the Wii, yet still managed to be Atlus' most successful title to date. We shouldn't measure success merely by what we see on the NPD top 10. If a blockbuster title doesn't make it, we can call it a bomb, but nobody's going to cry about the death of the Wii if TC fails to crack it.

And with GH3 I was saying that it also strongly appeals to casuals. It's a casual/party game that also appeals to the core gamer.

Ah, Guitar Hero was a casual franchise all along, gotcha. What was that you were saying earlier about 'Ninthings' and being contradictory to what the NPD numbers showed?

 

[Deku]

OH MP3 has broken 500k already, I stand corrected.

In anycase I want to say one thing about those who still spend so much time arguing about 3rd party support or the supposed make up of the Wii demographic.

It's really a waste of all your time. The cynics from what I can see aren't cynical because of a rational skepticism but rather because they dislike the Wii or prefer another hardware platform. You can see this in their inability to abandon the same prejudiced pre-fab arguments. The list of caveats as to what their arguments 'exclude' which now includes Guitar Hero 3 is already quite long.

That said, saying Wii software is performing spectacular as a counterpoint is also disinegenous. There is real promise and opportunities for this platform, that is why 3rd parties are quickly redirecting resources. But there hasn't been a real 3rd party break out hit yet outside of Red Steel. Guitar Hero might be the 1st to do that.

 

[BishopLamont]

This whole "third party/hardcore games don't sell on the Wii" should really stop. If RE:4 a high quality hardcore game, even though it being a port can sell, then it shows there's a market for hardcore games. If a quality hardcore game flops, I don't see why the blame should be on Nintendo. Third party shouldn't expect a free pass just because it's on the Wii, if they want to succeed they need to put in the work in all areas. Development time/cost, marketing, and effort. Not every hardcore game on the PS2 in it's early years did spectacular numbers.

 

[Fredescu]

No, people want the Wii because it's the Wii. They like Wii Sports.

Part of me wants to agree with you, but attach rate figures don't really bear this out. Wii owners are buying software, whether it's first party, or launch titles, or shovelware, or party games. There is more going on than just Wii Sports, although nothing is nearly as big.

 

[grandjedi6]

Mario Party? Fine. Raving Rabbits? Ok. Although I think the second wont match the originals sales. Monkey Ball? Flop. Boogie? Flop. EA Playground? Carnival Games? Shit, anymore out there?

Mario Party -- great
Raving Rabbids -- original did great, sequel should do well too
Carnival Games --- great
DDR: Hottest Party --- good

No matter how you look at it party games are doing well on the Wii

 

[Luckyman]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164480

NPD Fallout: Did Ratchet Actually Sell Just Fine?
Tools of Destruction's performing better than last Ratchet.
By Patrick Klepek, 11/19/2007

Starting in August, the PlayStation 3 has started delivering roughly one heavy-hitter first-party title a month. So far, none of those games -- Warhawk, Lair, Heavenly Sword -- have been able to break 100,000 in sales their first month out. Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction carried that burden in the month of October for PS3, but failed to motivate enough consumers in its two weeks on shelves to break the 100,000 barrier. As it stands, Ratchet sold 74,500 copies in October.

"SCEA is very happy with the initial sales numbers of Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction," said a Sony Computer Entertainment America representative to 1UP. "In a crowded market of mature content, Ratchet is a fun, sophisticated alternative that truly showcases the power of the PS3. Ratchet is the perfect gift for PlayStation fans of all ages and we expect sales to continue to remain strong."

That said, Ratchet & Clank hardly "bombed." In fact, the duo's PS3 outing outperformed their last release, the multiplayer focused Ratchet: Deadlocked from October 2005, which sold only 55,300 copies its firth month. Insomniac's platformer pushing the numbers it did ahead of PS3's 40GB price cut actually becomes all the more impressive, given Deadlocked arrived the same month Sony announced PlayStation 2 had shipped more than 100 million consoles worldwide.

First-month performance for the entire Ratchet & Clank series, provided by the NPD Group, is as follows:

# Ratchet & Clank (November 2002) -- 112,000 units
# Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando (November 2003) -- 125,000 units
# Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal (November 2004) -- 207, 500 units
# Ratchet: Deadlocked (October 2005) -- 55,300 units
# Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (October 2007) -- 74,500 units

The Ratchet & Clank series has never been about breaking sales records as it has been about being a consistent seller. And while Tools of Destruction's inability to break out in October is noteworthy, it ultimately says more about the PS3 as a platform. Simply told, if there were more PS3s, more people would've bought Ratchet. Them's the breaks, Clank.

Didn't Heavenly Sword do >100k in it´s first month?

 

[AniHawk]

...So anyway, we currently have a stock of about 40 some-odd DSes (including the new Zelda and Nintendog bundles), which we may be out of come Christmas Eve. We have over 20 360s that will be selling too. We'll receive 21 Wiis in on Friday and be out of stock before closing.

And we have 8 PS3s. Sony is shipping 30. We don't have room for 30. We don't have room for the 20 PSPs that are slowly becoming harder to get rid of. We don't have room for the Singstar PS2 bundles that don't sell. And we're getting thirty PS3s.

I can't imagine what stock other chains are getting if our medium-sized store is getting so damn much. Sony's doing what they did with the PSP in 2005 and what MS did with the 360 in 2006. They're overshipping for the holidays to hit their FY goals and hope holiday demand takes care of the excess stock. Hooboy.

 

[papelnabangka]

...So anyway, we currently have a stock of about 40 some-odd DSes (including the new Zelda and Nintendog bundles), which we may be out of come Christmas Eve. We have over 20 360s that will be selling too. We'll receive 21 Wiis in on Friday and be out of stock before closing.

And we have 8 PS3s. Sony is shipping 30. We don't have room for 30. We don't have room for the 20 PSPs that are slowly becoming harder to get rid of. We don't have room for the Singstar PS2 bundles that don't sell. And we're getting thirty PS3s.

I can't imagine what stock other chains are getting if our medium-sized store is getting so damn much. Sony's doing what they did with the PSP in 2005 and what MS did with the 360 in 2006. They're overshipping for the holidays to hit their FY goals and hope holiday demand takes care of the excess stock. Hooboy.

All Gamestops will get Wiis this Friday or just your store?

 

[AniHawk]

All Gamestops will get Wiis this Friday or just your store?

Pretty sure all of them will. We only are holding 12 for Friday though, and stores open at 7.

 

[papelnabangka]

Time to line up then! Hopefully, the casual and non-gaming stench of the Wii will keep the core gamers away!

 

[GhaleonEB]

Time to line up then! Hopefully, the casual and non-gaming stench of the Wii will keep the core gamers away!

The soccer moms are going to trample you. And they're probably wearing cleats. Working retail on Black Friday one year was terrifying - it was like being stuck in a store with zombies pressed against the glass outside.

Around here, stores are advertising that they're opening at four in the morning for Black Friday sales. <crabby old man voice> When I was a boy, they did Black Friday sales at six in the morning. </crabby old man voice>

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Pretty sure all of them will. We only are holding 12 for Friday though, and stores open at 7.

How does MS' stock situation look? Overstocking like last year, or selling briskly enough to keep the shelves relatively normal looking?

BTW, for anyone doing predictions for next month, Ubisoft just revealed that Assassin's Creed has already sold over a million copies worldwide.

 

[AniHawk]

How does MS' stock situation look? Overstocking like last year, or selling briskly enough to keep the shelves relatively normal looking?

BTW, for anyone doing predictions for next month, Ubisoft just revealed that Assassin's Creed has already sold over a million copies worldwide.

They'll sell. We sold around 5 360s last year and sales were relatively good through the holidays. The big problem was that MS would ship 6 for every 2 we sold, which is how we wound up with so damn many. Basically the ones that are just sitting there are the Halo 360s. NO ONE bought those outside of the initial 8. I'm wondering if we'll ever sell them. We still have two PSOnes for $149.99. The price never dropped because they came with the LCD screen.

 

[AstroLad]

They'll sell. We sold around 5 360s last year and sales were relatively good through the holidays. The big problem was that MS would ship 6 for every 2 we sold, which is how we wound up with so damn many. Basically the ones that are just sitting there are the Halo 360s. NO ONE bought those outside of the initial 8. I'm wondering if we'll ever sell them. We still have two PSOnes for $149.99. The price never dropped because they came with the LCD screen.

That's pretty interesting info, love the corporate gaming of the shipped numbers by both Sony and MS in particular. Thanks AniHawk.

 

[papelnabangka]

The soccer moms are going to trample you. And they're probably wearing cleats. Working retail on Black Friday one year was terrifying - it was like being stuck in a store with zombies pressed against the glass outside.

Around here, stores are advertising that they're opening at four in the morning for Black Friday sales. <crabby old man voice> When I was a boy, they did Black Friday sales at six in the morning. </crabby old man voice>

OH. SHIT. I forgot it's Black Friday. Thank you very much for reminding my oblivious and unsuspecting ass. :|

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Between the color, price, and lack of bundled games, I can't see the Halo 3 boxes moving at all this holiday. What was MS thinking? No scratch that, I know what they were thinking (Let's make some quick cash on brainless Halo drones), but they totally underestimated the intelligence of their target audience.

I saw stacks of the worthless things sitting at my local Best Buy.

 

[Brakara]

BTW, for anyone doing predictions for next month, Ubisoft just revealed that Assassin's Creed has already sold over a million copies worldwide.

Surely that's a million shipped?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Surely that's a million shipped?

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/n...sins-sells-over-1-million-haze-delayed/18608/

"Ubisoft's excellent sales performance during the first half of fiscal 2007-08 has considerably boosted our earnings figures for the period," said CEO Yves Guillemot. "In addition, the early indications for our Christmas games launches have been positive, especially for Assassin's Creed, whose sell-through sales have already topped the record level of 1 million units. These very strong trends further underpin our confidence that we will achieve our objectives for the current year and add further impetus for fiscal 2008-09, which we expect to be a another year of robust growth for the Group."

 

[MagicJackBauer]

just hooked everything up and the red button on the strat isn't working. Doesn't work in the menu and when i use it in a song it shows the red and the yellow being pressed. Fucking bullshit. Dont know what to do.

 

[Brakara]

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/n...sins-sells-over-1-million-haze-delayed/18608/

How do they know the (worldwide) sell-through sales already? Do NPD give out weekly numbers to their subscribers?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

How do they know the (worldwide) sell-through sales already? Do NPD give out weekly numbers to their subscribers?

Wouldn't be hard for them to estimate.

 

[GhaleonEB]

How do they know the (worldwide) sell-through sales already? Do NPD give out weekly numbers to their subscribers?

I think they get their data directly from retail. Same way MS touts the Halo 2/3 day one sales. Not sure how that works, though.

 

[Fuzzy]

They'll sell. We sold around 5 360s last year and sales were relatively good through the holidays. The big problem was that MS would ship 6 for every 2 we sold, which is how we wound up with so damn many. Basically the ones that are just sitting there are the Halo 360s. NO ONE bought those outside of the initial 8. I'm wondering if we'll ever sell them. We still have two PSOnes for $149.99. The price never dropped because they came with the LCD screen.

Sounds to me like bad store management for ordering so many.

 

[sonycowboy]

...So anyway, we currently have a stock of about 40 some-odd DSes (including the new Zelda and Nintendog bundles), which we may be out of come Christmas Eve. We have over 20 360s that will be selling too. We'll receive 21 Wiis in on Friday and be out of stock before closing.

And we have 8 PS3s. Sony is shipping 30. We don't have room for 30. We don't have room for the 20 PSPs that are slowly becoming harder to get rid of. We don't have room for the Singstar PS2 bundles that don't sell. And we're getting thirty PS3s.

I can't imagine what stock other chains are getting if our medium-sized store is getting so damn much. Sony's doing what they did with the PSP in 2005 and what MS did with the 360 in 2006. They're overshipping for the holidays to hit their FY goals and hope holiday demand takes care of the excess stock. Hooboy.

Hint:

It's not Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo's overshipment. It's what retailers order on purchase orders placed months and months ago. Saying it's the manufacturer's is either naive or just plain ignorant. Not a single item hits your stores that the head buyers didn't actually order and have their systems allocate to stores based on your sales levels.

Gamestop's, Target's, Best Buys, etc are ALWAYS overfilled during November / December as they turns are so good during these days, that if they order 30 and only sell 20, it's still better than if they had 10 and sold 6 or 7 when you figure in attachment rates during the holidays for games, accessories, and protection plans.

 

[ksamedi]

Hint:

It's not Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo's overshipment. It's what retailers order on purchase orders placed months and months ago. Saying it's the manufacturer's is either naive or just plain ignorant. Not a single item hits your stores that the head buyers didn't actually order and have their systems allocate to stores based on your sales levels.

Gamestop's, Target's, Best Buys, etc are ALWAYS overfilled during November / December as they turns are so good during these days, that if they order 30 and only sell 20, it's still better than if they had 10 and sold 6 or 7 when you figure in attachment rates during the holidays for games, accessories, and protection plans.

Wasn't Microsoft threathening retailers with Windows products if they didn't take more 360orders?

 

[AniHawk]

Gamestop's, Target's, Best Buys, etc are ALWAYS overfilled during November / December as they turns are so good during these days, that if they order 30 and only sell 20, it's still better than if they had 10 and sold 6 or 7 when you figure in attachment rates during the holidays for games, accessories, and protection plans.

That doesn't make sense. If they had ten and sold six, that means they would have sold six if they had 38 too.

It's not like the PS3 has been a particularly hot seller at this store. Half of the employees actively talk people into a 360 anyway (something I frown against but I'm not there 24/7).

You seem pretty knowledgeable. Could some of this be related to marketing/store placement stuff as well?

 

[sonycowboy]

That doesn't make sense. If they had ten and sold six, that means they would have sold six if they had 38 too.

I was comparing the value of higher sales vs lower sales at different times of the year, not saying that a given system would only sell 6 units during Nov/Dec.

It's not like the PS3 has been a particularly hot seller at this store. Half of the employees actively talk people into a 360 anyway (something I frown against but I'm not there 24/7).

You seem pretty knowledgeable. Could some of this be related to marketing/store placement stuff as well?

PS3 isn't hot at any store. But, during the holidays, the store is friggen packed and retailers sell systems hand over fist, many without the employee telling them which system to buy.

There are all kinds of things manufacturers' (and/or publishers can do) to try and get retailer's to buy more product. Things like co-op advertising dollars, ties to product placement, and bundles (buy 100 PS3's get ten PS3's free, buy 100 PS3's get 100 Ratchet Free, etc) are all ways to get retailer's to buy more than they would straight up.

BTW, you can replace the PS3 with 360 for the purposes of this example. At this point, Nintendo has absolutely no reason to offer these kinds of promotions as the can't keep up with demand anyway, so why give away anything? I suppose if Nintendo wanted to be tough, they could make a large allocation of Wii bundles, where a retailer has to buy a Wii with 3 or 4 Nintendo games (with no price break). And the retailer would do it happily.

 

[grandjedi6]

just hooked everything up and the red button on the strat isn't working. Doesn't work in the menu and when i use it in a song it shows the red and the yellow being pressed. Fucking bullshit. Dont know what to do.

wut?

 

[Version 3.0]

Hint:

It's not Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo's overshipment. It's what retailers order on purchase orders placed months and months ago. Saying it's the manufacturer's is either naive or just plain ignorant. Not a single item hits your stores that the head buyers didn't actually order and have their systems allocate to stores based on your sales levels.

Gamestop's, Target's, Best Buys, etc are ALWAYS overfilled during November / December as they turns are so good during these days, that if they order 30 and only sell 20, it's still better than if they had 10 and sold 6 or 7 when you figure in attachment rates during the holidays for games, accessories, and protection plans.

That's not entirely true. I used to be a buyer (thankfully, I'm now inventory control mgr, buying sucks), and I can tell you that there are many products where it doesn't work that way. It's not just "I want 10".

If a product is hot--and I'll use Beanie Babies as an example of one I ordered directly--the wholesaler can place a lot of restrictions on you. Ty used to tell us what kind of fixture could be used to display the beanies, how many locations it could be sold in and for what price, which beanies we were required to order and how many, etc.

Now, legally they can't do any of that, but they can stop doing business with you if you don't comply. Most vendors are at the mercy of buyers, but if they know they have a popular product, then the situation can be reversed.

In the case of Gamestop, they most certainly are at the mercy of console manufacturers, who take advantage of it. I don't doubt at all that the over-shipping of consoles is not due to a buyer's decision, but is mandated by Sony/MS/Nintendo.