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[Sandfox]

You expect Nintendo to suddenly produce some better than PS4 box in 2016 and find another golden goose that lays the innovative "hey come back 80 million extended audience people after 8 years of you leaving!" egg again?

The harsher lesson is going to be the nextNintendo Handheld being quasiHD if not 720p, taking near to the same money to dev games on to WiiU where they actually can make money on software, or even higher development costs on a system third parties will avoid like the plague at launch and also may only ever hit a 10 million unit ceiling after a really quite clear and present "Nintendo home consoles brah, they're noooooooooooooo good" mindset.

At most, the age of exclusive to home console platform Nintendo software is going to be over.



Wow thats... wow. Is WiiU going to sell 200k now to stick as CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the Dreamcast line?

I said I think they're to "try" to ether make a powerful console or something innovative and its not like I said they were going to magically be on top when they released their next console.

The 3DS successor I can see doing decent in terms of support depending on what console budgets are like at the time and the mindset of Japanese studios at the time.

 

[metalslimer]

I honestly think that with a multitouch and capacitive touch screen the folks they were going after would have been less surprised (disappointed or baffled) by the initial impression.

(It wouldn't have saved them - and I doubt they could have made the finances work but it might have been more attractive to the mobile/iPad segment)

Without a functional app store and less clunky design it wouldn't have made a difference.I still can't believe they thought people would actually see a resistive low res controller as something they had to get

 

[Aaron Strife]

8. Skylanders: Swap Force (Wii, 360, PS3, Wii U, 3DS)

Does anyone else think abandoning the Wii as early as Nintendo did was a stupid idea?

 

[jmdajr]

Does anyone else think abandoning the Wii as early as Nintendo did was a stupid idea?

The install base is fucking huge. Yeah seems odd to me.

 

[PdotMichael]

Why would you think I'm joking?


http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata...-to-get-involved-with-price-warsmoney-giving/

Second-class CEO.

Neither he delievers a strong first party lineup nor third party exclusive games. Would love to know why he thought people would buy the WiiU.

edit: It's strange that he has way less problems with making third party exclusive deals with Japanese third parties. Not sure what his problem with American or European developers is.

 

[metalslimer]

Does anyone else think abandoning the Wii as early as Nintendo did was a stupid idea?

The funny thing is, Nintendo could have stuck with the Wii for like 6 more years and they probably would have sold more units and made more money from it then they ever will with Wii U.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

It depends. On the one hand, you can claim that people got sick of music games because there were so many RB and GHs in such a short time. Or, maybe they were going to get sick of the genre either way, in which case it makes perfect sense to try to extract as much money as you can in a short time.

I used to think Activision was stupid to have driven GH into the ground, but it hindsight I'm not sure that's what did it. I think it was probably just a fad.

I think you're correct, I seem to recall a quote from Kotick or somebody saying exactly that - whatever it is will go out of fashion sooner or later, so milk it while you can. Doing 5 straight years then moving on to the next annualized thing makes more sense than just doing 5 in 10 years and patting yourself on the back for your long lasting franchise to these companies.

 

[Doodis]

I haven't owned a Nintendo system since my original NES back in the day, but the current state of affairs makes me sad.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Not seen it done this month, so I made it myself going off the 55k figure.

Wow. That really does put into perspective. Even with 400,000 consoles sold this month (absurd) and 700,000 in December (even more so), it would still be tracking behind the gamecube

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Nintendo just needs to pull a Nintendo with their next and have it be something completely out of left field, but something that makes sense at the same time to surprise people and create it's own demand. Did the og Wii sell all those consoles just from the "Wii would like to play" commercials? It was more about see it = want it. Wii U is see it=don't know why they would want it.

 

[theprodigy]

you know a console's dead when its nearly getting doubled by the fucking Dreamcast in monthly sales

 

[Kid Ying]

I dont usually follow those threads, just read a little, but i think sonic games usually have legs on the west, right? Being so close to the holidays and on two systems, one of those with already proven public for the franchise, why declare the franchise dead and all that? Isnt a little premature?

 

[GregLombardi]

Nintendo just needs to pull a Nintendo with their next and have it be something completely out of left field, but something that makes sense at the same time to surprise people and create it's own demand. Did the og Wii sell all those consoles just from the "Wii would like to play" commercials? It was more about see it = want it. Wii U is see it=don't know why they would want it.

The original Wii is an astronomical anomaly in the console world, in the videogame industry, in the electronics market, in all consumer markets, and quite possibly in all of human product history. This can't be emphasized enough -- it was one of the rarest convergences of a perfect storm I've ever seen in business, and it was a disrupting device that upended multiple industries at once.

Do not compare Wii U to Wii. Wii was groundbreaking and revolutionary packaging of many different technologies. Wii U is like someone repackaged a toaster but never gave you any toast to make in it.

 

[RurouniZel]

Second-class CEO.

Neither he delievers a strong first party lineup nor third party exclusive games. Would love to know why he thought people would buy the WiiU.

edit: It's strange that he has way less problems with making third party exclusive deals with Japanese third parties. Not sure what his problem with American or European developers is.

Because many people bought a Wii JUST for Wii Sports. They decided that Nintendo Land would sell the Wii U all by itself, just like Wii Sports.

... when you look at the amount of content they've created during it's first year with this assumption, everything falls into place.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I dont usually follow those threads, just read a little, but i think sonic games usually have legs on the west, right? Being so close to the holidays and on two systems, one of those with already proven public for the franchise, why declare the franchise dead and all that? Isnt a little premature?

30k shared between a successful platform and a dying one. How many copies do you think the WiiU sold really of that split, and will continue to go on selling. Maybe Sonic can eek out a portable only existence from now on (the DIMPS ones. THE DIMPS ONES FOR GODS SAKE), but for such a series to lose all legitimacy as a home console outing is pretty shameful news for Sega.

Probably going to post a topic on it at some point to put sales over the recent years into perspective. Sega shitcanning Bayonetta 2 in favour of "focussing" on Sonic is already fucking hilarious enough.

 

[Sandfox]

The original Wii is an astronomical anomaly in the console world, in the videogame industry, in the electronics market, in all consumer markets, and quite possibly in all of human product history. This can't be emphasized enough -- it was one of the rarest convergences of a perfect storm I've ever seen in business, and it was a disrupting device that upended multiple industries at once.

Do not compare Wii U to Wii. Wii was groundbreaking and revolutionary packaging of many different technologies. Wii U is like someone repackaged a toaster but never gave you any toast to make in it.

The Wii was just a really good idea that was marketed really well. Its not like it was the second coming of the game industry or something lol

 

[Takao]

Did we find out how the Batman PSV/3DS game sold?

 

[GregLombardi]

The Wii was just a really good idea that was marketed really well. Its not like it was the second coming of the game industry or something lol

Actually, if you look at the statistics and the changes that occurred after its introduction, it very much was the second coming of the gaming industry, and one could even argue other industries. But that battle is for another time.

 

[Zinthar]

If the holiday sales are atrocious (as I'm sadly staring to believe will be the case) Nintendo May have to:

1. Drop the Gamepad to an accessory
2. Rebrand as Wii 2 (but still the same machine.
3. Drop price to $200
4. Wii Sports Club pre-installed

That would be a drastic move, but probably the only thing with any chance of saving the platform at this point. But unfortunately Nintendo should have done this at least 2 months ago so that the talk for the holiday shopping season is how they have a $200 console with a few decent games.

If they wait until January to see that sales are still poor, it may be too late to save the system.

 

[Anth0ny]

The original Wii is an astronomical anomaly in the console world, in the videogame industry, in the electronics market, in all consumer markets, and quite possibly in all of human product history. This can't be emphasized enough -- it was one of the rarest convergences of a perfect storm I've ever seen in business, and it was a disrupting device that upended multiple industries at once.

Do not compare Wii U to Wii. Wii was groundbreaking and revolutionary packaging of many different technologies. Wii U is like someone repackaged a toaster but never gave you any toast to make in it.

Sales for Nintendo consoles have been steadily declining since the NES. Of course, the Wii is the anomaly. Take it out of the equation, and you get the Wii U, which is the logical successor to the Gamecube when it comes to sales.

Wii U will sell around 15 million units when it's all said and done. Crazy.

 

[goldenpp72]

Why are people proclaiming the wii line is dead based on one of the worst selling games from that line on the original wii? I'm not saying the audience will be there but wii sports and fit were the heavy hitters there, not wii party and music.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Wii U = 15 million sold would have those investors calling for Iwata's head. Going from 100 million down to that is going to be painful but necessary. Nintendo needs to not take their next console for granted and make sure to release it with a plan of attack instead of just faith that it will sell.

 

[Refreshment.01]

@Drop the Gamepad folks: Think the costs of the device are been over stimated. Dropping the pad will let them reduce the price maybe in 50. More than that will probably make them sacrifice even more of the margin (whatever is it right now).

And for what exactly? Even with this cuarrent user base 3rd party content is not selling at decent levels. So increasing the user base with even less margin wouldnt do this console any good.

I've been proposing the following strategy even before launch. Develope an enviroment and tools that allow most 3DS games to be easily transitioned to Wii U. Games on Wii U would be rendered at higher resolutions with better frame rates. Give multi console owners (3DS/Wii U) a price incentive to own the same game on both consoles. Start by experimenting with your internally developed 3DS games.

At least this is worth a shot before geting rid of the gamepad which is the f*cking point of the system. After all, if they went with the stupid resistive screen, that save for drawing hasnt been exploited of its advantages in a meaningful way, might as well use it with the most important reason for its existance, 3DS compatibility.

 

[NeonZ]

Nintendo just needs to pull a Nintendo with their next and have it be something completely out of left field, but something that makes sense at the same time to surprise people and create it's own demand. Did the og Wii sell all those consoles just from the "Wii would like to play" commercials? It was more about see it = want it. Wii U is see it=don't know why they would want it.

It's easy to say that, but the Wii U was an attempt at doing that again. An ill conceived attempt that completely failed, but still an attempt. It could easily fail again. Even during the Wii years, they ran into similar problems with some products, like Wii Music.

 

[Kid Ying]

30k shared between a successful platform and a dying one. How many copies do you think the WiiU sold really of that split, and will continue to go on selling. Maybe Sonic can eek out a portable only existence from now on (the DIMPS ones. THE DIMPS ONES FOR GODS SAKE), but for such a series to lose all legitimacy as a home console outing is pretty shameful news for Sega.

Probably going to post a topic on it at some point to put sales over the recent years into perspective. Sega shitcanning Bayonetta 2 in favour of "focussing" on Sonic is already fucking hilarious enough.

Well, Sonic never did that well out of the gate, right? Even the sonic racing game, which people says did best on the wiiu, wasnt a huge sucess on its first week and generations only did 20k on the 3ds. No reason to get all alarmed now. xAnd its not like they had much option. Sonic sold really bad on anything else not nintendo for a long time.

And about wiiu sales, i dont know. Maybe on christmas parents will buy sonic for their kids, if they have a wiiu, of course, which is not looking likely, still, it might end up selling well. If titles like lego and pikmin did it, sonic might do the same.

Now, something i had to say is that if the title ends up being a failure, it will not be because of quality or reviews. lol

 

[kinggroin]

@Drop the Gamepad folks: Think the costs of the device are been over stimated. Dropping the pad will let them reduce the price maybe in 50. More than that will probably make them sacrifice even more of the margin (whatever is it right now).

And for what exactly? Even with this cuarrent user base 3rd party content is not selling at decent levels. So increasing the user base with even less margin wouldnt do this console any good.

I've been proposing the following strategy even before launch. Develope an enviroment and tools that allow most 3DS games to be easily transitioned to Wii U. Games on Wii U would be rendered at higher resolutions with better frame rates. Give multi console owners (3DS/Wii U) a price incentive to own the same game on both consoles. Start by experimenting with your internally developed 3DS games.

At least this is worth a shot before geting rid of the gamepad which is the f*cking point of the system. After all, if they went with the stupid resistive screen, that save for drawing hasnt been exploited of its advantages in a meaningful way, might as well use it with the most important reason for its existance, 3DS compatibility.

....


Good idea man

 

[Raziel]

Just updated for you guys =) compare with DC and GC

[/URL][/IMG]

Edit: Oh error, that was suppose to mention the WiiU price drop

So, 150k for Nov, 400k for Dec?

 

[liger05]

Why are people proclaiming the wii line is dead based on one of the worst selling games from that line on the original wii? I'm not saying the audience will be there but wii sports and fit were the heavy hitters there, not wii party and music.

Because if you look at the likes of Nintendogs, Professor Layton, Brain Training you see a pattern where those kind of titles have seen that kind of audience shrink dramatically.

 

[Keyouta]

The 3DS is eating partially into the Wii U's sales. For Smash Bros, it's great to have on the 3DS since it has the higher install base (though the low resolution screen sucks), but I think that might cut into the Wii U's sale potential as the game won't be exclusive. Good reason to not buy a Wii U if I have a 3DS and only want Smash Bros.

 

[Shahed]

Why are people proclaiming the wii line is dead based on one of the worst selling games from that line on the original wii? I'm not saying the audience will be there but wii sports and fit were the heavy hitters there, not wii party and music.

Because they're still not doing as well as they did in the past. And while not exactly the same, Brain Training and it's failure on a much more healthy 3DS hints at the same problem

 

[crinale]

Thats not true.
They dont want to be held hostage by the big publishers.

In that logic third parties don't want to be held hostage by Nintendo either.

 

[Freezie KO]

The 3DS is eating partially into the Wii U's sales. For Smash Bros, it's great to have on the 3DS since it has the higher install base (though the low resolution screen sucks), but I think that might cut into the Wii U's sale potential as the game won't be exclusive. Good reason to not buy a Wii U if I have a 3DS and only want Smash Bros.

Mario 3D Land -> Mario 3D World
Mario Kart 7 -> Mario Kart 8
DKC Returns 3D -> DKC Tropical Freeze
NSMB2 -> NSMBU
Smash 4 -> Smash 4

It's a problem.

 

[Tookay]

What's interesting about the faddish nature of some of those genres is how the publishers themselves did it. For example, plastic instrument games were released so quickly that a collapse was inevitable. So what does Ubisoft do with Just Dance?

[list of Just Dance games]

So, Ubisoft, think you should give Just Dance a break?

Ubisoft probably believes that this isn't a sustainable brand, so they're going to squeeze as much out of it as they can before it's dead.

In all fairness, Nintendo probably should have done the same with Wii Sports. They guarded the brand too much (thinking it could be a lasting IP, like Mario or Zelda) when they could have been releasing annual sequels. Now the opportunity has passed and the franchise is dead.

 

[Shiggy]

Why are people proclaiming the wii line is dead based on one of the worst selling games from that line on the original wii? I'm not saying the audience will be there but wii sports and fit were the heavy hitters there, not wii party and music.

Have you seen the sales of Brain Training for 3DS? After the lacklustre sales in Japan and NA, it was even cancelled in Europe.

Wii Party sold more than 8 million units. Anyone thinking that Wii Fit U or a download-only Wii Sports Club will help a lot must have lived under a rock for the past 2-3 years. Those two titles don't even bring anything new to the table, which was key to the success of the games on Wii. The price of the system is also way too high - 150€ would be much more appropriate for what is offered software- and feature-wise.

 

[Shion]

Does anyone else think abandoning the Wii as early as Nintendo did was a stupid idea?

1. The days when the casual audience was willing to pay for casual software at premium prices ended when Apple, Google and Facebook became the dominant platforms for their gaming needs. That audience found a better home at non-gaming devices and has an ocean of F2P / $0.99 time wasters available to play. A longer lifecycle for the Wii wouldn't be sustainable in the new landscape.

2. Nintendo had to support their new handheld (which suffered from a software drought and was struggling post-launch).

 

[Asd202]

Just updated for you guys =) compare with DC and GC

[/URL][/IMG]

Edit: Oh error, that was suppose to mention the WiiU price drop

Wow just wow Wii U is terrible. After Wii what a failure it is lol, it's even bigger ball drop than PS3 from PS2...

 

[speculawyer]

Wow . . . . so the Dreamcast finally did return. With a display in its controller and everything like the original.

 

[RurouniZel]

I've been proposing the following strategy even before launch. Develope an enviroment and tools that allow most 3DS games to be easily transitioned to Wii U.

If this would lead to Kid Icarus: Uprising being ported to Wii U... you have my sword.

 

[Zinthar]

I've been proposing the following strategy even before launch. Develope an enviroment and tools that allow most 3DS games to be easily transitioned to Wii U.

I don't think that's really a viable option -- the architectures are quite different and the power gap is immense. Games made for the low-res 3DS are going to be massively ugly when blown up to 50" HDTV's.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Wow . . . . so the Dreamcast finally did return. With a display in its controller and everything like the original.

The Dreamcast had better games by this time in it's life though.

 

[Nekofrog]

I've been proposing the following strategy even before launch. Develope an enviroment and tools that allow most 3DS games to be easily transitioned to Wii U. Games on Wii U would be rendered at higher resolutions with better frame rates. Give multi console owners (3DS/Wii U) a price incentive to own the same game on both consoles. Start by experimenting with your internally developed 3DS games.

I'm don't care what "price incentive" they use, I'd never pay for the same game twice on a handheld and then a console. Let me buy it once and play it on either system; I already paid for the hardware.

But that would require an actual customer friendly digital account system, something which Nintendo shows no real interest in.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Does anyone else think abandoning the Wii as early as Nintendo did was a stupid idea?

It was an important mistake for many reasons, chief among them when they had the intention for the succesor to be branded with the same name. How it made sense to them name it after a console that was dead for almost 2 years?

And let's not speak of NOA sitting on a stock pile of quality Japan software and not doing a competent job localising it. People had to beg them to bring some titles here.

If this would lead to Kid Icarus: Uprising being ported to Wii U... you have my sword.

It would lead to any important 3DS game being brought to the Wii U. Wii U is perfect for this since it shares the exact same interface as the handheld and the 3DS took a step back from using the touch screen as the main interactor to focus more on the 3D capable one. So most game could work on the Wii U's separated screens.

I made a thread explaining some of the ways they could handle this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544908&highlight=

I don't think that's really a viable option -- the architectures are quite different and the power gap is immense. Games made for the low-res 3DS are going to be massively ugly when blown up to 50" HDTV's.

The architectures been different is not a problem. You have people making competent emulators of Nintendo systems for Intel or ARM architectures. Nintendo in full grasp of their systems internal will have no problems creating and enviroment that facilitates the transition of 3DS projects for Wii U. They should have been working on this since before launch.

The power gap been inmense and the interface the same is great in this case. Basically the Wii U will be rendering this relative simple games in 720P or 1080P resolutions with enhanced effects or higher frame rates. This would be encouraging even to a person that owns the 3DS games to experience it with better image quality.

I'm don't care what "price incentive" they use, I'd never pay for the same game twice on a handheld and then a console. Let me buy it once and play it on either system; I already paid for the hardware.

But that would require an actual customer friendly digital account system, something which Nintendo shows no real interest in.

1.- They already making people pay extra anyway. This is material for other disscussion.

2.-No revision of account system. For example, register your 3DS game. Recieve a code to download said game on the Wii U with a discount. Let's say you bought Kid Icarus on 3DS, register your game and download it on Wii U for say 10 dollars. But the game runs on 1080P at 60 FPS. The enhancement might worth the extra price in some people's eyes. And the Wii U only owner has the chance to play a fantastic game for the same price as the 3DS game.

Is a lot better than not taking advantage of the resistive screen they were dead set to include in the device, now is the best justification for it existance so take advantage of it.

 

[ascii42]

Wow . . . . so the Dreamcast finally did return. With a display in its controller and everything like the original.

An iPod Nano in a VMU? That's definitely interesting.

 

[Mory Dunz]

I don't think there's any way Smash 3DS comes out on or near the Wii U date.

I mean, it has to come out months later so the Wii U can get some sales. That seems like the smartest option to me.

Smash 3DS will sell like crazy, regardless of when Smash U comes out.

 

[dragonknight337]

They played Heavy Rain?

Ha, that mess (and the back half of Fahrenheit/IP) was definitely enough for me to just gamefly it, couldn't risk $60 on another mediocre game. Now Beyond is much better but still, I am sure 3 years to think over Heavy Rain affected some people buying full price.

Rune Factory 4 update please?

Really curious about it too. I hope it did well, definitely the best RF to date (can't believe 3 has been dethroned), and XSEED did an awesome job on the translation.

 

[Yanikun]

Because if you look at the likes of Nintendogs, Professor Layton, Brain Training you see a pattern where those kind of titles have seen that kind of audience shrink dramatically.

Because those games can all be done on a mobile device for under $5. A deeper, more unique type of casual game can still do gangbusters (Animal Crossing).

I really think it's lazy to say the casual audience is gone. It's not gone, Nintendo just needs to step their game way up to differentiate their casual games from mobile-type casual games.

So, I look forward to Nintendo not giving up on the Wii U, but instead attempting to come up with new clever concepts.

 

[speculawyer]

The Dreamcast had better games by this time in it's life though.

Ice cold.

But true. Dem 2K Sports!

 

[shinra-bansho]

The Wii U line and the Dreamcast line in that graph are so eerily similar.

What does this mean?

Why April-October?

It means that in its first April to October the Vita outsold the Wii U's first April-October. The Vita was released in late February.

If you want to dance/karaoke/do yoga/have a party/beat drums, your mobile device can't do it properly.

The problem is you assume that people will continue to desire the same thing to entertain them.

Try releasing a plastic peripheral music game now.

 

[Slayven]

The Wii U line and the Dreamcast line in that graph are so eerily similar.
It means that in its first April to October the Vita outsold the Wii U's first April-October. The Vita was released in late February.The problem is you assume that people will continue to desire the same thing to entertain them.

Try releasing a plastic peripheral music game now.

I swear at one point it felt like a new Guitar Hero was being released every week.

 

[opticalmace]

I don't know how typical a gamer I am, but my feelings:

I own a PS3 and 360 and will probably buy a PS4 next year. I am interested in some of the Wii U games (3D World, Mario Kart etc) but couldn't care less about the gamepad. The price of entry is too high for me, particularly when my money can go towards a system that's guaranteed to get lots of support in the future. However, if they dropped the gamepad and got the system under (e.g.) $200 I would probably buy one to complement my other console.

IMO, the people who are arguing that they should drop the gamepad are on the money.