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Phil Spencer: The Xbox business will become ‘untenable’ if it remains ‘irrelevant’ on mobile.
- Thread starter Eddie-Griffin
- Start date
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I think I've cracked the code and got the winning formula:Phil Spencer's last interview before this one, said they've reached saturation with their sub service, and that F2P is the future.
- Make F2P games that can only be played on consoles
- Lock those free-to-play games behind a paid subscription service
- Lock that game subscription, with console-exclusive games, on a mobile device.
feynoob
Banned
Consoles are shrinking, because the cost of making games is rising.
This isn't only exclusive to Xbox. Even Sony is facing that problem. It's why they are porting their games to PC and increasing their investments on mobile.
The old traditional console revenue is shrinking fast, as the cost of workers is rising.
he says ‘console’, not xbox. The console market overall.
FFS, ‘Relatively’ is used when you’re making a comparison
How do you not know this?
Series of weird arguments because you’re eagerly trying to cycle back to ‘only xbox is struggling’.
Meanwhile, Xbox revenue has continued to grow for the past 5 years.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
He needs to create hype until the games release early next year.
Microsoft tried mobile many times with Windows Phone and early post death of WP during the transition from Ballmer to Nadella. It just never worked.
I notice some people here act like MS missed an opportunity they should have made earlier, but they were trying earlier it's just they realized it would be easier to buy King and other big mobile developers than to try from scratch.
Even Sony is buying mobile developers and just released a gaming phone.
93xfan
Banned
Didn’t mean to suggest xbox would drop Consoles. It’s more about how I can see greedy companies only focusing on mobile.
For example will we ever see another Rayman game that isn’t a mobile run game?
What does making a mobile OS a decade ago have to do with making mobile games?
jm89
Member
What hype has he generated for games coming out?
Raven77
Member
Because Phil is taking about putting more emphasis on mobile. That means more money put towards it and less towards console games.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Those Windows Phone games were just free or paid casual games for the mobile platform
Full List of Windows Phone Games
Full list of Windows Phone games. Find all the guides and achievement lists for Windows Phone games here.
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Because he is going to own a big mobile publisher. Does not mean he is obligated to remove funds from the console business. Xbox generates more revenue than ActiBliz, and ActiBliz does not need additional funds from other divisions. Instead like the other two console manufacturers, revenue from the mobile division will now help the console division.
bitbydeath
Member
PlayStation records most profitable year in history | ScreenHub Australia - Film & Television Jobs, News, Reviews & Screen Industry Data
PS5 shortages and COVID-19 didn't stop Sony's gaming division from recording its most profitable year in its 27-year history.
www.screenhub.com.au
Nintendo Records Most Profitable Year Yet
Also naming 'Animal Crossing: New Horizons' as its highest-selling game of FY2020.
hypebeast.com
bitbydeath
Member
Nintendo and Sony have been breaking profit records, see above. The issue Xbox is facing is exclusive to them.
akaFullmetal
Member
Well I don't like hear that things like mobile are needed in the future to have growth. Getting a game popular on mobile is like catching lightning in a bottle. Many gaming companies have tried and slunk back to consoles due to how much it costs and if it doesn't catch fire then it burns through money. Remember everyone was on the mobile wagon on 2010 when it started getting big.
I hope this doesn't take anything away from consoles, if it does then screw that, look at their output so far.
I hope this doesn't take anything away from consoles, if it does then screw that, look at their output so far.
bitbydeath
Member
Xbox is the console he looks after and is referring. Xbox is relatively flat whilst the other two are setting record profits.he says ‘console’, not xbox. The console market overall.
FFS, ‘Relatively’ is used when you’re making a comparison
How do you not know this?
Series of weird arguments because you’re eagerly trying to cycle back to ‘only xbox is struggling’.
Meanwhile, Xbox revenue has continued to grow for the past 5 years.
feynoob
Banned
Xbox had that too. $16b with low 1st party output.
The issue is salaries and the resources required to make those games are getting expensive as time goes on.
Look at current graphics. You need alot of resources to afford that much. Same with salaries.
Both Sony and MS are focusing more on PC market, to offset the development cost.
Nintendo on other hand, their games are low graphic cost, but high sale. They rarely drop prices. Which is why they make insane amount of money. Mario kart is still $60.
bitbydeath
Member
You’re referring to revenue, MS purposely avoids speaking about profit, which is what the links for Sony and Nintendo were about that I had provided above.
feynoob
Banned
Sony profit was low, when they made that revenue.
What matters is that Xbox with super low 1st party output, and half of PS numbers managed to bring in that much money.
MS is a big company compared to Sony. So you wont see Xbox segments with profits.
Tomeru
Member
Sure, but why did you say consoles are shrinking, when its obviously not? Unless you meant they are not enough as a source of revenue anymore.
bitbydeath
Member
PlayStation profit Is higher than its ever been. (As per link above).
and MS/Phil is talking revenue but please keep changing the goal posts
in 2021 and its reduced this year and forecasted to be 225M JPY down from 346,089M JPY
bitbydeath
Member
There is no comparison, Sony and Nintendo are on record as breaking profit barriers, MS is not. It’s that simple.
You have change the metrics cause you know that you were wrong so going to move on.
bitbydeath
Member
We don’t know this years yet and in either case it is a far cry from being flat.
feynoob
Banned
bitbydeath
Member
What do you think is better for a business, profit or revenue?
I can wait while you mull it over.
lol, just ignoring their forecasted numbers.
if Sony GN&S gets 250M JPY in profits over the next two quarters; that would be a surprise
I didn't make the comment about xbox being flat and then change metric to one that we don't know about and then start going on some tangent about revenue and profits being better so bye bye.
So Nintendo is the most successful platform holder? now bye.
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bitbydeath
Member
And you’re ignoring that they’re not relatively flat.
bitbydeath
Member
Phil made the comment.
Sony, Nintendo and MS report their revenue. Independent agencies like Statista aggregates all that into reports that everyone can see.
Clearly, when he says console, he referring to the overall console market.
You think when he mentions PC, he’s only talking about the Windows Store?
The OP is about revenue. Not profits. The growth figures or patterns being discussed is focused on revenue.
Pay attention.
bitbydeath
Member
You’re guessing. Revenue has been increasing for MS, it doesn’t fit the statement and if it does then profit would be in an even worse place.
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From a simple Google search
Thats not profit. Obviously.
And yes, revenue has been increasing for MS, as well as the other console makers. But nowhere near the projected growth rate of mobile gaming. Do I have to run you through the meaning of ‘relatively’ once again?
bitbydeath
Member
It’s increased a lot for two of the three, as I had stated. And again, I already broke that quote down for you, you can’t keep saying something hoping it sticks.
For example on the definition you provided, “relatively clean” means mostly clean. It’s not clean compared to “insert other place”, same goes for the statement of “relatively flat”, it’s mostly flat.
The sentence isn’t in conjunction with mobiles, just of itself.
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feynoob
Banned
Because you are dealing with alot of factors.
Current economy makes production console harder, due to shortage of supply. We almost got out of one now.
Mobile and PC market is dominating. Especially with younger crowds, who are growing up with Ipads, and mobile phones.
Cost of mainting 1st party games. Which means focusing on other market, which in turn affects your business.
As of now, most played games are f2p, and live service games. That should tell you more about the current gamers, and their taste.
Ezekiel_
Banned
Yeah, it's really baffling to me too, how mobile games can generate such revenue.
I'd like to see a break down of how that revenue is made.
Is it a small percentage of players who spend incredible amounts? AKA whales
Is it a moderate amount of players, spending small amounts periodically?
Is it through advertisements displayed between levels, etc?
I've never once been even remotely tempted to spend money on a mobile game
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
I said hype UNTIL the games come out next year lol.
Windows had more games than the ones that were only in the windows store, it had remote play and some IOS/Android titles to.
The point is they were TRYING to get into the mobile market before and failed, They weren't just sitting around waiting until it was late and then tried to buy King.
So going to pretend there weren't any games on windows phone?
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Too late Phil, the GOAT mobile game just released a week or so ago:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
So if cloud doesn't take off, Xbox business is untenable.
That's what he's talking about, not creating mobile games.
MS isn't in this because they think they can compete with the likes of Sony / Nintendo and their profits.
They think Xbox and "xCloud as a service" is going to be 10's of billions in profit business because of some pie in the sky idea that cloud streaming will replace native mobile gaming..
Have they also done native mobile games / will continue to do so? Of course.. but the thing Satya has been sold on is the idea that Xbox can cut into Apple's gaming profits, and they think that can be done via cloud.
That's what he's talking about, not creating mobile games.
MS isn't in this because they think they can compete with the likes of Sony / Nintendo and their profits.
They think Xbox and "xCloud as a service" is going to be 10's of billions in profit business because of some pie in the sky idea that cloud streaming will replace native mobile gaming..
Have they also done native mobile games / will continue to do so? Of course.. but the thing Satya has been sold on is the idea that Xbox can cut into Apple's gaming profits, and they think that can be done via cloud.
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feynoob
Banned
They are regular people like you, who has less time for consoles, so they use mobile as substitute.Yeah, it's really baffling to me too, how mobile games can generate such revenue.
I'd like to see a break down of how that revenue is made.
Is it a small percentage of players who spend incredible amounts? AKA whales
Is it a moderate amount of players, spending small amounts periodically?
Is it through advertisements displayed between levels, etc?
I've never once been even remotely tempted to spend money on a mobile game
They really don't pay that much attention to how much they spend.
jm89
Member
Ok. So what hype?
feynoob
Banned
You dont create hype that way.
Yeah, it's really baffling to me too, how mobile games can generate such revenue.
I'd like to see a break down of how that revenue is made.
Is it a small percentage of players who spend incredible amounts? AKA whales
Is it a moderate amount of players, spending small amounts periodically?
Is it through advertisements displayed between levels, etc?
I've never once been even remotely tempted to spend money on a mobile game
All of the above.
Benniewise de Clown
Banned
Same principle goes for gaming.
I can just take a look at my mom or gf, they play maybe 15-20 minutes on their mobile phone and already get bored.
Fact is, movies/series have a far larger target audience.
That's the billions of people MS was aiming for.
What did they reach? 25M and it's already becoming stagnant?
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
That's the point. Netflix subscriptions will have numbers in 100M+ easily. There's no precedence for that in the gaming industry.
PS+ has been the most successful gaming subscription service ever and, despite multiple quarters and revamp attempts and COVID boost, they couldn't breach the 50 million mark -- despite having an essential component that's mandatory for online gameplay.
If PS+ with the largest userbase couldn't do it, I doubt any other service can in the near future.
feynoob
Banned
As I explained to you, MS doesn't enough console userbase.
Xbox one was 55+m users. There is new gen console in the market. Most of new gamepass games are going to be next gen. It makes sense for console subs to slow down.
1 other thing you ignoring is the PC market. That is a growth avenue, which can increase gamepass userbase numbers. Total of those sub could hit up to 60m.
So for now, the growth would be inline with console sales (until those who have gamepass manage to get the system), and pc growth. Minus those who only use xlive gold.
The real growth would be in the form of cloud gaming. Just like how Netflix and Disney plus are on streaming devices, xcloud could be that tool. But we aren't on that step yet. It would take time for cloud to hit.
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