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[Jackson50]

But the daily tracking does start to matter more at this point in time, historically speaking. Everyone knows this


I'm not fucking bipolar.

They matter more relative to polls in January, sure. But there's scant difference in predictiveness between polls conducted in April, May, or June. The predictive power of polls does not reach a usefully predictive threshold until at least July. Moreover, the daily tracking poll has been fluctuating within a narrow band for months. The movement is likely attributable to randomness. There's no cause for "wheee" unless you consider meaningless fluctuations exhilarating.

Just a reminder that John Bolton is Romney's chief foreign policy adviser and probable frontrunner for Secretary of State if he's elected.

(So the foreign policy choice in this election is apparently between "flying death robots and kill lists" or "space nukes and invade the shit out of Iran".)

Yeah. I dig the criticism of Obama's foreign policy. I criticize his policies frequently. But the differences are stark. A flawed, yet moderately successful foreign policy or the distillation of the most pernicious policies of Bush. It's the primary reason I'm voting for Obama. I refuse to countenance the current Republicans directing our foreign policy.

But he'd totally stand up to the GOP establishment if president, and govern as a moderate.

Yeah. I don't understand that notion. Presidents largely endeavor to pass their party's agenda-ineffably insightful, I know. And I doubt Romney would prove the exception.

 

[Wilsongt]

Wow. Romney is the literal personification of the cat-sticking-to-bread-with-jam-spinning .gif.

 

[RustyNails]

Obama gettin' heckled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e24wuNLhcq8

I'm glad he told him to basically stfu but I wish he'd get more angry at these twats. This election could be do or die for this administration so I really hope if things get dire Obama just comes out swinging. It would be a welcome change of pace.

"What about Americans unemployed while you're trying to import foreigners?"

~

"Brown people will take our non-existent jerbs!"

 

[PhoenixDark]

"What about Americans unemployed while you're trying to import foreigners?"

~

"Brown people will take our non-existent jerbs!"

That just might work, given the economy. I'm really looking forward to polls on today's news

 

[RustyNails]

That just might work, given the economy. I'm really looking forward to polls on today's news

It doesn't, and never has in the past. They took our jobs has been the rallying cry of closeted racists and bigots for 2 decades. Remember, lazy people blame others. The ones who are gonna bitch about this weren't going to vote for Obama in the first place.

 

[kehs]

That heckler looked so salty when they showed him, haha.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Yeah. I dig the criticism of Obama's foreign policy. I criticize his policies frequently. But the differences are stark. A flawed, yet moderately successful foreign policy or the distillation of the most pernicious policies of Bush. It's the primary reason I'm voting for Obama. I refuse to countenance the current Republicans directing our foreign policy.

I should probably point out that I prefer the known negatives of drone strikes to the known negatives of Bolton's (and by extension the past two generations of Republicans') sabre-rattling and feeble attempts at hearkening back to the worst parts of America's grand strategy in the 1980s... it's just more fun to refer to Obama's foreign policy like he's a Bond villain.

 

[markatisu]

"What about Americans unemployed while you're trying to import foreigners?"

~

"Brown people will take our non-existent jerbs!"

Seriously they took our jobs, buh buh buh Obama is so bad there are no jobs

So which is it, though I know in GOP and Racist lands its somehow both

 

[GaimeGuy]

Any white voters upset about this weren't going to vote for Obama anyway.

Pretty shocking that the DREAM act passed the house and far all intents and purposes passed the Senate, but got blocked by the GOP.

Our system of government is fucked.

Stop calling this shit the DREAM act. It's not. It's a half-assed version of it.

 

[PantherLotus]

What economic news? Here's this sweet new immigration policy that will make Romney look like a complete chump no matter what he does. Go left, flip flop. Go right, flip flop. Agree, President wins. Disagree, President wins. Romney is either lying and losing or lying and losing.

And there's the cost of flip flopping constantly. Eventually nobody believes you on either side, and all you have to show for it is...

fuck, he'll still be a billionaire.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Stop calling this shit the DREAM act. It's not. It's a half-assed version of it.

I think he is talking about the actual DREAM act that had more than 50 votes in the Senate, but was blocked by the filibuster.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I think he is talking about the actual DREAM act that had more than 50 votes in the Senate, but was blocked by the filibuster.

Oh.

Well yeah. That's the story of the last 2 sessions of congress.

Harry Reid is shit.

 

[Amir0x]

I swear with the asshole interrupting Obama during his speech... these people are motherfucking disrespectful as shit. How embarrassing.

 

[RoninChaos]

Funny: I like Michael Steele a lot and think he had a number of chances to differentiate the two positions. He was unable to because there are none, which was Matthews' point.

And Matthews was right. But they basically asked him questions and didnt let him answer. At one point Matthews disregarded him like you would a child.

... Holy shit I can't believe I'm sticking up for Michael Steele.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I swear with the asshole interrupting Obama during his speech... these people are motherfucking disrespectful as shit. How embarrassing.

Considering their Presidential candidate endorses such behavior, is it a surprise?

 

[PantherLotus]

And Matthews was right. But they basically asked him questions and didnt let him answer. At one point Matthews disregarded him like you would a child.

... Holy shit I can't believe I'm sticking up for Michael Steele.

You're reading this totally wrong, or seeing something that isn't there. Steele didn't have an answer. There is no policy difference between Bush and Romney, and Matthews did him a favor by not letting him die out there. They're very clearly friends.

 

[Amir0x]

Considering their Presidential candidate endorses such behavior, is it a surprise?

I mean used to be a time when people just called presidents nazi's behind their back. This calling presidents a liar during their state of the union, interrupting his speeches, calling him anti-American, "the other", maybe a muslim, maybe born in kenya... it's all really embarrassing for our democracy. I know free speech is what it is, but retarded speech just makes me sad

 

[Oblivion]

And Matthews was right. But they basically asked him questions and didnt let him answer. At one point Matthews disregarded him like you would a child.

What are you talking about? Steele got a decent amount of chances to respond, it's just that he wasted every single one of them by refusing to answer the question.

 

[Measley]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

The DREAM Act, along with a repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", was incorporated into the National Defense Authorization Act for the Fiscal Year 2011. On September 21, 2010, the Senate filibuster of the bill was maintained in a 56–43 vote; it would have taken 60 votes to stop the filibuster and continue the progress of the bill. The following day, Durbin introduced the bill once again along with Richard Lugar. Only two senators co-sponsored the bill and it was defeated again. Less than a month later, on November 16, President Barack Obama and top Democrats pledged to introduce the Dream Act into the House by November 29. The House of Representatives passed the DREAM Act on December 8, 2010, but the bill failed to reach the 60-vote threshold necessary to end debate on the Senate floor (55-41 -- Motion to invoke cloture on the motion to concur in the House amendment to the Senate amendment No. 3 to H.R. 5281).

That shit is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Diablos]

Romney's going to have Palin on the ticket? He's going to suspend his campaign over something to sit on the sidelines in meetings about it?

Heh, exactly. This is not 2008. In 2008 people were fed up with Bush after eight years, the economy sucked and the GOP was the party to blame (and rightfully so). McCain ran the worst campaign, like, ever. Even worse than Bob Dole. If Romney comes out of his convention with an 11 point jump in the polls it'll be much harder for Obama to close the gap on that. Much harder.

It was stacked for him in 2008. It will be interesting to see this election play itself out. There will definitely be some meltdowns on either side, I presume.

Was it though? There were some close calls (pastor, convention psychological drama) but honestly once he got past the primary, looking back, he had a fairly easy ride to the White House. This year is going to be chaos. We've got Obama being more of a... President and not a rock star as you said previously, and all of that star power really going to the wayside. Big problem. We've got an economy that isn't as recovering as fast as Americans want it to (derp, I know). Another big problem. We've got Citizens United changing the way elections are financed forever, and in a way that favors conservatives far more than it does libreals. HUGE problem. And then we of course have Europe trolling the US, which is really not anything Obama needs right now given everything else stacked up against him. It's much easier to be running for President when the economy and everything else is this bad. But not only does Romney have that, he's got at least $1.1 billion on his side now, and it's mid-June. This election is going to be close and decided by only a couple states.

oh holy shit, LOLO:

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-a-sketches-on-immigration.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

Romney comes out for the DREAM act just weeks after calling it a handout and thinking "self-deportation" would be the best solution.

Republicans: you all do realize you've done this to yourselves, right?

Good. Obama needs all the help he can get. Romney's quote alone will probably alienate a lot of stupid white people and they will not trust him. At least, I hope so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act



That shit is utterly ridiculous.

55-41 and no chance, still. It's really depressing yet irritating stuff that makes you feel sick upon reading.

The next 20 to 30 years in the US of A are going to be really fucked up.

 

[PhoenixDark]

One thing of note: this is like the third or fourth big policy change or announcement Obama has made that completely changed the election narrative. All of them (birth control, gay marriage, etc) took focus away from the economy and put it on the executive branch. How long can Obama keep doing this? The next major news will likely concern the SC health care decision, and then the jobs report which will likely be bad. That could be two huge blows in a row. And Greece's election is this Sunday, which will impact the Eurozone issue

Being president means you can move the narrative when you want, but we will soon enter a phase where outside events start dictating the election outcome

 

[AlteredBeast]

One thing of note: this is like the third or fourth big policy change or announcement Obama has made that completely changed the election narrative. All of them (birth control, gay marriage, etc) took focus away from the economy and put it on the executive branch. How long can Obama keep doing this? The next major news will likely concern the SC health care decision, and then the jobs report which will likely be bad. That could be two huge blows in a row. And Greece's election is this Sunday, which will impact the Eurozone issue

Being president means you can move the narrative when you want, but we will soon enter a phase where outside events start dictating the election outcome

Gotta keep finding those votes where you can. I am not sure what they are worried about, to be honest (outside of GOP PAC fundraising), he is pretty much a lock to win the election.

 

[kehs]

Unemployment numbers should be up closer to election.

I mean, they did just legalize about 11 millions jobs.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Unemployment numbers should be up closer to election.

I mean, they did just legalize about 11 millions jobs.

Sure to make all those people who actually can vote who are unemployed really happy

 

[kehs]

Sure to make all those people who actually can vote who are unemployed really happy

They're probably happy with socialist Obama anyways, what with their government handouts and all.

 

[Chumly]

One thing of note: this is like the third or fourth big policy change or announcement Obama has made that completely changed the election narrative. All of them (birth control, gay marriage, etc) took focus away from the economy and put it on the executive branch. How long can Obama keep doing this? The next major news will likely concern the SC health care decision, and then the jobs report which will likely be bad. That could be two huge blows in a row. And Greece's election is this Sunday, which will impact the Eurozone issue

Being president means you can move the narrative when you want, but we will soon enter a phase where outside events start dictating the election outcome

He doesn't have much else to do since congress does nothing......

 

[AlteredBeast]

They're probably happy with socialist Obama anyways, what with their government handouts and all.

True dat, true dat, until they hit week 100, of course.

 

[PhoenixDark]

He doesn't have much else to do since congress does nothing......

Agreed, I'm not knocking him for doing things. Past presidents in similar binds often resorted to foreign trips (Nixon especially), whereas Obama is actually getting things accomplished. I just wonder how long he can keep changing the subject.

I'd imagine The upcoming job report will reveal less than 100k jobs again

 

[Diablos]

Gotta keep finding those votes where you can. I am not sure what they are worried about, to be honest (outside of GOP PAC fundraising), he is pretty much a lock to win the election.

Gahhh

Don't say that. Why do people think he has this in the bag? 2012 is going to make 2008 look like a cakewalk.

I don't like using the word "lock" for close elections. In 2004 someone told me Ohio was a "lock" for Kerry on election night and, well, yeah...

The media is giving Romney a free pass. Meh.

 

[AlteredBeast]

The media is giving Romney a free pass. Meh.

I honestly don't think that they are... Not entirely, at least.

 

[Chichikov]

Agreed, I'm not knocking him for doing things. Past presidents in similar binds often resorted to foreign trips (Nixon especially), whereas Obama is actually getting things accomplished. I just wonder how long he can keep changing the subject.

I'd imagine The upcoming job report will reveal less than 100k jobs again

Nixon's foreign trips achieved more than Obama's, well, everything.
This is not a knock against Obama, but a reflection of the Nixon's achievements -

1. ending the Vietnam war in probably the best possible way (after the US tried for over a decade to get the fuck out of there).
2. signing the first nuclear arms limitation treaty.
3. opening relationship with China.
4. facilitating the Geneva conference of 73 and the Agreement on Disengagement between Israel and Egypt, which were the precursor to the peace treaty (Ford kinda screwed it up and delayed the actual peace treaty for a few years).

p.s.
It should be noted that Nixon, like pretty much all American presidents since WW2*, had a horrible, immoral and downright criminal policy in Latin America.

* I can't think of anything bad the Carter administration did down there, but that's about it.

 

[Diablos]

Greece is having elections this weekend, btw.

Hold on to your butts. :|

 

[tranciful]

I honestly don't think that they are... Not entirely, at least.

I don't understand how someone can lie and mislead so much and not be laughed out of the public sphere. Everything he says should be met with skepticism yet the media more often than not just takes his word for it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Nixon's foreign trips achieved more than Obama's, well, everything.
This is not a knock against Obama, but a reflection of the Nixon's achievements -

1. ending the Vietnam war in probably the best possible way (after the US tried for over a decade to get the fuck out of there).
2. signing the first nuclear arms limitation treaty.
3. opening relationship with China.
4. facilitating the Geneva conference of 73 and the Agreement on Disengagement between Israel and Egypt, which were the precursor to the peace treaty (Ford kinda screwed it up and delayed the actual peace treaty for a few years).

p.s.
It should be noted that Nixon, like pretty much all American presidents since WW2*, had a horrible, immoral and downright criminal policy in Latin America.

* I can't think of anything bad the Carter administration did down there, but that's about it.

I'm referring to the foreign trips Nixon made during Watergate, which were more for show than anything substantial, including a second trip to Russia that didn't achieve anything.

I find Nixon to be the most fascinating US president, and generally like him in many ways, so I'm not knocking him here. Just pointing out the general idea of when a president can't get anything done, he often decides to "look presidential" by going overseas

 

[AlteredBeast]

I don't understand how someone can lie and mislead so much and not be laughed out of the public sphere. Everything he says should be met with skepticism yet the media more often than not just takes his word for it.

Can you point to me a breadth of articles where the writer does not at least point out where he has flip-flopped, mislead with statistics or otherwise been arrogant or out of touch?

You are being misled by the Fox News and Talk Radios of the world, and not the fact that NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN are very even-handed in their coverage, not to say anything about the average liberal-leaning blog or newspaper around the country.

At the same time, the only thing that so-called "laughing someone out of the public sphere" would accomplish is to lose a very heavy portion of your viewership or readership. Outright slamming a candidate over and over won't accomplish as much as a little education here and there.

 

[Chichikov]

I find Nixon to be the most fascinating US president, and generally like him in many ways, so I'm not knocking him here. Just pointing out the general idea of when a president can't get anything done, he often decides to "look presidential" by going overseas

I think it's perfectly fair to hate on Nixon, he was a hyper-partisan borderline sociopath who nearly destroyed our democracy.
In many ways, he's the father of today's radicalization and putting winning above all else.

But he was pretty great on foreign policy.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think it's perfectly fair to hate on Nixon, he was a hyper-partisan borderline sociopath who nearly destroyed our democracy.
In many ways, he's the father of today's radicalization and putting winning above all else.

But he was pretty great on foreign policy.

Well, if you totally ignore Vietnam. I'd say he was a good foreign policy president

He wasn't bad on a lot of domestic policy either.

 

[Chichikov]

Well, if you totally ignore Vietnam. I'd say he was a good foreign policy president

He wasn't bad on a lot of domestic policy either.

More like if you totally ignore Chile.

And I think still in the grand scheme of things, Vietnam is a positive for Nixon.
Yeah, invading Cambodia was a horrible (and criminal) decision, but Nixon was left with a terrible no win situation there.
He didn't came up with a perfect solution, but he came up with a solution, something that Eisenhower, Kennedy and LBJ weren't able to do (and at least in the case of Eisenhower and LBJ, not from lack of trying).

 

[Oblivion]

Btw, how in the hell did I miss this:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-june-7-2012-edward-conard

It's an interview with one of Romney's economic advisers, the same douchebag that suggested that wealth inequality can be a good thing. It's the longest interview I've ever seen Stewart do, and I literally had not seen a single story on it. I only found this bitch in passing in TDS thread.

Everyone should see it, but I recommend lots of aspirin and alcohol.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Rubio Bails On GOP-Friendly DREAM Act After Obama Move

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) appears less likely to introduce his more GOP-friendly version of the DREAM Act following President Obama’s move on immigration Friday. Elise Foley confirms:

The [Rubio] aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the senator is re-evaluating a path forward after the president announced Friday that some young undocumented immigrants will no longer be deported if they meet certain requirements, which largely align with the Dream Act. Rubio had planned to introduce a bill that would grant temporary legal status to many of the same undocumented immigrants, and, like the Obama administration, would give only temporary relief from deportation without a special pathway to citizenship.

CBS first reported on Friday that Rubio was reconsidering his plan for the legislation. The Rubio aide confirmed to HuffPost that the senator may not introduce his bill because he believes the politics are now more difficult.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/rubio-bails-on-gop-friendly-dream-act-after

Whoops. And if Obama wins re-election and wants to tackle immigration in a sensible Bush/Kennedy manner, Rubio will be first in line to hold up the stop sign.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

HCR ruling expected in next two weeks...this month started badly for Obama and will end on a worse note.

 

[PhoenixDark]

HCR ruling expected in next two weeks...this month started badly for Obama and will end on a worse note.

I honestly expect this month to be the turning point and move things from a toss up to a clear Romney lead. HCR overturned+June jobs report+Europe=President Romney unless he fucks it up

 

[Diablos]

I honestly expect this month to be the turning point and move things from a toss up to a clear Romney lead. HCR overturned+June jobs report+Europe=President Romney unless he fucks it up

Yeah this is like the worst month ever for Obama. Seriously.

HCR thrown out/scaled back/whatever = demoralized Democrats, happy Republicans/Independents, Romney goes to bed with a grin on his face
June Jobs Report = demoralized Americans, angst directed (wrongly) exclusively at the WH, Romney goes to bed with a grin on his face
Eurozone crashing = Same as jobs report, and it pisses off Wall Street too, Romney goes to bed with a grin on his face

All of this stuff helps Republicans and hurts Obama. It's like a trifecta that scares the shit out of Democrats and gives the GOP all the confidence in the world. Obama has probably had the worst luck of any President I can think of.

I'm pissed

 

[The Librarian]

Btw, how in the hell did I miss this:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-june-7-2012-edward-conard

It's an interview with one of Romney's economic advisers, the same douchebag that suggested that wealth inequality can be a good thing. It's the longest interview I've ever seen Stewart do, and I literally had not seen a single story on it. I only found this bitch in passing in TDS thread.

Everyone should see it, but I recommend lots of aspirin and alcohol.

"Right, so who's bearing the risk?

"The guy who puts up the 20% down payment."

"That's my point!"

*Stewart facepalms*

and

"I don't disagree with that."

"Your whole book disagrees with that!"

 

[markatisu]

The media is giving Romney a free pass. Meh.

Yeah its called they need a narrative to carry them to November, why people keep worrying or are confused by the media is astounding to me. That is their job or else they have nothing to talk about

They have every interest in the world as claiming the election is close and Romney is gaining, it brings in viewers and increases ad revenue when ratings go up

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Yeah its called they need a narrative to carry them to November, why people keep worrying or are confused by the media is astounding to me. That is their job or else they have nothing to talk about

They have every interest in the world as claiming the election is close and Romney is gaining, it brings in viewers and increases ad revenue when ratings go up

Only that Romney is gaining. The media narrative helps Romney gain, so to say we should just forget about it doesn't work.

 

[markatisu]

Only that Romney is gaining. The media narrative helps Romney gain, so to say we should just forget about it doesn't work.

He was going to gain anyway, once he become the nominee he was going to gain. But some of you guys are too obsessed that the media is going to chose the election and its nothing more than what they always do and always will do to garner ratings.

In other news I had a good laugh today, Iowa is sending Ron Paul delegates to the national convention instead of Romney ones. They wanted Santorum and today decided to back Paul.

So yeah Iowa is not going to Romney, not in anyway,shape or form if he can't even get his own side to defend him.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Man, it's going to rule if Obamacare gets upheld.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Man, it's going to rule if Obamacare gets upheld.

The meltdown would be easily be up there with the Facebook after election meltdown from conservatives

 

[PantherLotus]

Man, it's going to rule if Obamacare gets upheld.

That's what makes it so unlikely.


good god can you imagine? I still stand by that there's a reasonable argument that either decision energizes the other base.