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[Star Power]

Um... he hired Patti Solis-Doyle as his VP Chief of Staff?!?!? Huh?!? Does that mean he's picking HillDawg?

 

[LizardKing]

i didn't say obama was centrist. I just meant more to the center than feingold. And really they are pretty damn similar. Two peas in a pod really.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Obama campaign hires longtime Dem strategist to "recraft" Michelle Obama's image

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/former-clinton-campaign-manager-joins-obama-team/

NYT: June 16, 2008
Former Clinton Campaign Manager Joins Obama Team
By Adam Nagourney

....The Obama campaign also is strengthening the team working for Michelle Obama.

Later today, the campaign is set to announce the hiring of Stephenie Cutter, a longtime Democratic strategist who worked as Senator John Kerry’s communications director in 2004. Ms. Cutter is scheduled to begin soon, with the first task of re-crafting the image of Mrs. Obama, who has come under intense criticism by Republicans and even some Democratic rivals. She also will lead a war room to fight attacks against Mrs. Obama.

 

[Cheebs]

i didn't say obama was centrist. I just meant more to the center than feingold. And really they are pretty damn similar. Two peas in a pod really.

And thats the problem. You don't win elections that way. Feingold would do nothing to help him win, his demographics and voting record would hurt Obama in an election.

Outside of Cheney VP's have almost no power, they are just a tool in a campaign to help get elected. You dont go out of your way to pick someone who'd be radioactive to your electoral chances cause he is like you.

 

[scorcho]

cheebs: obama won't pick a woman because of MOMENTUM, right?

 

[mrmyth]

Um... he hired Patti Solis-Doyle as his VP Chief of Staff?!?!? Huh?!? Does that mean he's picking HillDawg?

NO NO NO NO NO /Shia

Besides Mark Penn had Hill's ear and Bill's support. He ran that campaign. Solis-Doyle sat in her office and tried to watch soaps all day in between bouts of miserable crying at her destroyed career.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Two key reasons. Black/female is too much change to take a risk on, clinton fans who are slowly warming up will be in outrage over it. I have seen many democratic operatives say Selebius is a huge no because of the tense relationship with clinton voters.

We'll just have to disagree, then. I'm of the sentiment that by the time Sebelius is announced, wounds will have healed and that the great (super?) majority of Clinton supporters have a brain and realize that Obama and Clinton agree 95% of the time.

As for Black/Female, I figure they weren't going to vote Barack in the first place.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Check the homepage. (Yep, that's the ACTUAL page below).

 

[scorcho]

Check the homepage. (Yep, that's the ACTUAL page below).

:lol. wow.

i'm personally looking forward to the non-citizens for Obama ad.

 

[Keylime]

"Pastry loving midget feminists for McCain"

 

[Karma Kramer]

Sebelius would be a bold and possibly excellent choice for Obama, but it is risky, and might backfire on the Democrats.

I definitely think Obama is going to pick someone else, but it is still so early in the vetting process, that its pointless to speculate now.

 

[LizardKing]

And thats the problem. You don't win elections that way. Feingold would do nothing to help him win, his demographics and voting record would hurt Obama in an election.

Outside of Cheney VP's have almost no power, they are just a tool in a campaign to help get elected. You dont go out of your way to pick someone who'd be radioactive to your electoral chances cause he is like you.

I guess i'm thinking of it more like having two important people in the campaign with the same message campaigning across the country in order to reach more people with that message. I think the message of obama's campaign is so strong that it can win all by itself and would do better if intensified. Polls show that everyone else hurts obama besides edwards. Maybe this is because these other candidates represent a dilution of obamas messasge, or values that people don't feel as strongly about as obama's own values which has enabled him to enrapture much of the country like wildfire.

 

[Hitokage]

McCain/Aqua Pill Graphic '08!

 

[Star Power]

Check the homepage. (Yep, that's the ACTUAL page below).

They are trying too hard.

 

[Cheebs]

I guess i'm thinking of it more like having two important people in the campaign with the same message campaigning across the country in order to reach more people with that message. I think the message of obama's campaign is so strong that it can win all by itself and would do better if intensified. Polls show that everyone else hurts obama besides edwards. Maybe this is because these other candidates represent a dilution of obamas messasge, or values that people don't feel as strongly about as obama's own values which has enabled him to enrapture much of the country like wildfire.

Or because this early out polling on VP is pure name recognition. No one has a clue who any of those other names are outside of political junkies.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I guess i'm thinking of it more like having two important people in the campaign with the same message campaigning across the country in order to reach more people with that message. I think the message of obama's campaign is so strong that it can win all by itself and would do better if intensified. Polls show that everyone else hurts obama besides edwards. Maybe this is because these other candidates represent a dilution of obamas messasge, or values that people don't feel as strongly about as obama's own values which has enabled him to enrapture much of the country like wildfire.

I disagree, if anything Obama needs a candidate that brings stability to the ticket, someone who will speak to the older generation voters.

Or because this early out polling on VP is pure name recognition. No one has a clue who any of those other names are outside of political junkies.

Yep, good point.

 

[Cheebs]

I disagree, if anything Obama needs a candidate that brings stability to the ticket, someone who will speak to the older generation voters.

I agree 100%. People are thinking about what *they* want, not what those who currently dont like Obama need to be wooed.

 

[LizardKing]

so the best way to bring about change is to find someone who is more of the same? we want change just not too much eh?

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

I say screw what Hillary supporters might think. If Obama feels Sebellius is the best choice he should go with her and not think twice about it.

It's annoying seeing a so obviously qualified candidate be kept out of receiving such an enormous honor simply because she's a female and her receiving the VP nod might piss off female supporters of another female candidate. What Country do we live in? The females in this Country don't all bow to Hillary Clinton.

Has it really come to this where people should be afraid to do things that may or may not anger Hillary Clinton or her supporters? This isn't North Korea. Hillary Clinton isn't the "dear leader" of the United States.

If supporters get pissed off because Obama picks another female candidate, it won't be because they are in such strong support for women's rights that they can't support the decision. It will be because they are extremely bitter Hillary Clinton supporters who are more infatuated with Hillary herself than they are proud to see a woman make it as far as she has managed to do.

Hillary says she made 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, when was there a piece of legislation passed that stated Hillary Clinton is the only female allowed to shatter that ceiling? All the talk about how much she has done to empower females and help to open doors that were previously closed shouldn't just be a PR talking point that is only a sincere thought when it involves her being the female that eventually goes on to make history. Hillary supporters better get use to the fact that Hillary isn't the only capable female in this Country.

As I read more about Sebellius, I feel fairly confident that she would be a fantastic President. If she's announced as Obama's VP then we wont need to worry about how popular Hillary is. Sebellius will instantly climb that ladder and become a far bigger force in the Democratic Party than she already is.

 

[Cheebs]

so the best way to bring about change is to find someone who is more of the same? we want change just not too much eh?

Obama IS change.

I say screw what Hillary supporters might think. If Obama feels Sebellius is the best choice he should go with her and not think twice about it.

It's annoying seeing a so obviously qualified candidate be kept out of receiving such an enormous honor simply because she's a female and her receiving the VP nod might piss off female supporters of another female candidate. What Country do we live in? The females in this Country don't all bow to Hillary Clinton.

Has it really come to this where people should be afraid to do things that may or may not anger Hillary Clinton or her supporters? This isn't North Korea. Hillary Clinton isn't the "dear leader" of the United States.

If supporters get pissed off because Obama picks another female candidate, it won't be because they are in such strong support for women's rights that they can't support the decision. It will be because they are extremely bitter Hillary Clinton supporters who are more infatuated with Hillary herself than they are proud to see a woman make it as far as she has managed to do.

Hillary says she made 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, when was there a piece of legislation passed that stated Hillary Clinton is the only female allowed to shatter that ceiling? All the talk about how much she has done to empower females and help to open doors that were previously closed shouldn't just be a PR talking point that is only a sincere thought when it involves her being the female that eventually goes on to make history. Hillary supporters better get use to the fact that Hillary isn't the only capable female in this Country.

As I read more about Sebellius, I feel fairly confident that she would be a fantastic President. If she's announced as Obama's VP then we wont need to worry about how popular Hillary is. Sebellius will instantly climb that ladder and become a far bigger force in the Democratic Party than she already is.

I agree, 100%. But she wont be VP. It'd be nice, but a lot of things would be nice.

 

[scorcho]

not if he continues to surrounds himself with Washington establishment figures, or at least concede that the change meme is just hyperbole.

 

[Cheebs]

not if he continues to surrounds himself with Washington establishment figures, or at least concede that the change meme is just hyperbole.

There are plenty of potential candidates who aren't Washington establishment that aren't females you know.

Selebius ironically is actually more establishment than webb, kaine...etc. She comes from a family of politicians.

 

[bob_arctor]

so the best way to bring about change is to find someone who is more of the same? we want change just not too much eh?

It's a tough act to balance, isn't it?

 

[LizardKing]

yes but then you want someone else for vp who doesn't represent that for "stability"? You can't have change and stability. Someone isn't going to vote for obama if they don't like his change platform, even if the vp is George Bush. So why pander to that with your vp choice? Choose your senate chairman who sees eye to eye with you and your policies imo. Obama made up 20% in some states during the primaries all by himself. Campaigning with his change message is strong enough to let him win. And two guys with the same message would be even stronger.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I agree 100%. People are thinking about what *they* want, not what those who currently dont like Obama need to be wooed.

Yep, having two Obama's on the ticket, although cements his whole "change" theme, isn't really beneficial in terms of getting elected.

The Vice President's position in the White House (aside from Cheney) is also so insignificant compared to the Presidents, that its not like by having a status quo candidate on the ticket, is going to alter or diminish Obama's effectiveness in the White House to bring change.

Obama simply needs someone who is a governor and who has either a strong economic background or foreign policy background. But the candidate also needs to capture older voters... which Sebelius wouldn't do imo.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So McCain is going to speak before oil executives and deliver the message that we need to let them drill more.

From NBC/NJ’s Adam Aigner-Treworgy and NBC's Abby Livingston
The message of the McCain campaign for the day is on energy, as today McCain announced that in his speech before oil executives in Texas tomorrow he would call for lifting the federal moratorium on oil and natural gas exploration, leaving the decision on whether to explore for oil up to the states.

McCain has a mixed record on supporting off-shore drilling in the senate, but this decision seems to be a bit of a capitulation to the oil companies who are in favor of searching for new sources of oil. McCain is against drilling in ANWR.

“Tomorrow I’ll call for lifting the federal moratorium for states that choose to permit exploration,” McCain said. “I think that this and perhaps providing additional incentives for states to permit exploration off their coasts would be very helpful in the short term in resolving our energy crisis.”

John McCain: Speaking truth to power.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/16/1146574.aspx

 

[Cheebs]

yes but then you want someone else for vp who doesn't represent that for "stability"? You can't have change and stability. Someone isn't going to vote for obama if they don't like his change platform, even if the vp is George Bush. So why pander to that with your vp choice? Choose your senate chairman who sees eye to eye with you and your policies imo. Obama made up 20% in some states during the primaries all by himself. Campaigning with his change message is strong enough to let him win. And two guys with the same message would be even stronger.

Feingold is FAAAAR too liberal to win anything outside of Wisconsin. He is toxic.

A change vp is a possibility like you said, but Feingold is far too liberal for America at large sadly.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Yeah Gore! Let's do this! Another big announcement for Obama in Michigan!

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Yep, having two Obama's on the ticket, although cements his whole "change" theme, isn't really beneficial in terms of getting elected.

The Vice President's position in the White House (aside from Cheney) is also so insignificant compared to the Presidents, that its not like by having a status quo candidate on the ticket, is going to alter or diminish Obama's effectiveness in the White House to bring change.

Obama simply needs someone who is a governor and who has either a strong economic background or foreign policy background. But the candidate also needs to capture older voters... which Sebelius wouldn't do imo.

I look at Sebelius experince.

Picking a VP base sorely on state strategy didn't work the last two election.

 

[Cheebs]

I suspect this vp discussions in PoliGAF aren't going to budge till he picks one. Everyone is sticking to their preferred candidate (pick selebius! pick feingold! pick richardson! pick biden!) and I don't think there will be anyone agreeing with anyone else till he finally announces. :lol

 

[Karma Kramer]

yes but then you want someone else for vp who doesn't represent that for "stability"? You can't have change and stability. Someone isn't going to vote for obama if they don't like his change platform, even if the vp is George Bush. So why pander to that with your vp choice? Choose your senate chairman who sees eye to eye with you and your policies imo. Obama made up 20% in some states during the primaries all by himself. Campaigning with his change message is strong enough to let him win. And two guys with the same message would be even stronger.

First of all, I hate to break it to you, but Obama isn't really a change candidate unless you just look at things at the surface. His policies are very similar to Hillary Clinton's.

People here need to realize that although poetically its nice to imagine that Obama is really this dramatically different candidate when it comes down to the issues... he actually isn't. So by even having a Clinton on the ticket, it is not going to really have any effect on preventing Obama from getting what he wants to get done in Washington when he becomes president.

 

[LizardKing]

probably not. who would you like to see?

 

[Cheebs]

I look at Sebelius experince.

Picking a VP base sorely on state strategy didn't work the last two election.

If he picks Kathy it wont be out of experience. She has been gov. only 1 year longer than he has been senator.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I look at Sebelius experince.

Picking a VP base sorely on state strategy didn't work the last two election.

Picking Sebelius as VP would be seen as a strategic move by the mainstream media and nothing else. It would be seen as a way for Obama to win the women vote.

Bad idea.

 

[Keylime]

If he picks Kathy it wont be out of experience. She has been gov. only 1 year longer than he has been senator.

But she has experience being a milf/gilf as long as Obama's been alive.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

If he picks Kathy it wont be out of experience. She has been gov. only 1 year longer than he has been senator.

She has a political career that spans over 22 years.

 

[LizardKing]

First of all, I hate to break it to you, but Obama isn't really a change candidate unless you just look at things at the surface. His policies are very similar to Hillary Clinton's.

People here need to realize that although poetically its nice to imagine that Obama is really this dramatically different candidate when it comes down to the issues... he actually isn't. So by even having a Clinton on the ticket, it is not going to really have any effect on preventing Obama from getting what he wants to get done in Washington when he becomes president.

i'm not really talking about issues, but i'm talking more about policy and politics with the way government is run. i know his issues are the same.

 

[Karma Kramer]

i'm not really talking about issues, but i'm talking more about policy and way government is run. i know his policy is the same.

What?

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Picking Sebelius as VP would be seen as a strategic move by the mainstream media and nothing else. It would be seen as a way for Obama to win the women vote.

So you're basing your assumption on the mainstream media and not whats best for the country.

 

[Cheebs]

She has a political career that spans over 22 years.

So does Obama! Her prior experience is a state senate, like Obama. Of which the media overlooks when calculating "experience". Experience to the public tends mean governer, senator, or military experience. It's a stupid requirement for experience but it's sadly how it is shown in the media. Kathy would be picked to re-inforce the change message, not to boost the resume. She appeals to a different part of the potential VP slot than say Joe Biden would.

 

[Tamanon]

So does Obama! Experience to the public tends mean governer, senator, or military experience. It's a stupid requirement for experience but it's sadly how it is shown in the media. Kathy would be picked to re-inforce the change message, not to boost the resume. She appeals to a different part of the potential VP slot than say Joe Biden would.

Yeah, then explain how the public and media bought Clinton's experience argument

 

[LizardKing]

What?

edited

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

So does Obama! Experience to the public tends mean governer, senator, or military experience. It's a stupid requirement for experience but it's sadly how it is shown in the media. Kathy would be picked to re-inforce the change message, not to boost the resume. She appeals to a different part of the potential VP slot than say Joe Biden would.

She has executive experience which neither nominee has.

 

[Karma Kramer]

So you're basing your assumption on the mainstream media and not whats best for the country.

I am being realistic. You are being greedy and unrealistic in my opinion, by not looking at the situation as it would be... but as how you would want it to be.

 

[Cheebs]

Yeah, then explain how the public and media bought Clinton's experience argument

in the white house, governer, senator, or military then.

Its a stupid requirement but the media made this stupid rule. Serving in the army trumps the state senate in AMERICAZ

 

[SouthernDragon]

We know the issues aren't all that different. It's the approach, and it's a rising tide, the notion that it's not only what we do but how we do it that matters.

 

[masud]

Check the homepage. (Yep, that's the ACTUAL page below).

I've seen allot of 'shops in my day...

 

[Karma Kramer]

Yeah, then explain how the public and media bought Clinton's experience argument

Cause she has been in the public eye for about 20 years almost as someone in Washington.

 

[scorcho]

If he picks Kathy it wont be out of experience. She has been gov. only 1 year longer than he has been senator.

so she is both a Washington insider and inexperienced?

oh, Cheebs.

 

[Cheebs]

I've seem allot of 'shops in my day...

I doubt its a shop