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[LizardKing]

We know the issues aren't all that different. It's the approach, and it's a rising tide, the notion that it's not only what we do but how we do it that matters.

yeah that

 

[Cheebs]

so she is both a Washington insider and inexperienced?

oh, Cheebs.

I said she was establishment due to her father. The person in question was not talking about experience at all his request for non-establishment VP. Experience =/= establishment.

Patrick Kennedy has weak experience but he is a establishment politician still.

Look at George W. Bush. He was a establishment candidate in 2000 thanks to his dad but he picked Cheney due to the perception he didnt have enough experience.


And to even take it further I never called her establishment! I said she was only more so than Kaine/Webb due to her father.

You are trying to hard to find a contradiction where none exists.

 

[NetMapel]

Um... he hired Patti Solis-Doyle as his VP Chief of Staff?!?!? Huh?!? Does that mean he's picking HillDawg?

Hey, real classy name calling. Please stop talking now.

 

[LizardKing]

Major Areas of Interest : Senator Feingold's strongest legislative passions are reserved for fiscal ethics in government, elimination of deficit spending, education, civil rights, protecting American jobs and affordable healthcare for all Americans.
The Concord Coalition, a nonpartisan group for fiscal responsibility, has awarded him its highest rating each year since 1997 for his deficit reduction work. Taxpayers for Common Sense has repeatedly honored the Senator for his efforts to cut wasteful spending.

this is what i'm talking about

 

[Karma Kramer]

We know the issues aren't all that different. It's the approach, and it's a rising tide, the notion that it's not only what we do but how we do it that matters.

This is a good point, but I believe Obama as President will be enough to have influence in Washington. He doesn't need a "change" sidekick. He can deliver the message fine by himself. He really needs experience, because that will both help him in the White House with governing and it will win him votes.

I really think a lot of you guys are looking at this situation unrealistically. You are simply looking at the surface, of how awesome it would be so have Obama and Sebelius standing side by side campaigning... and you aren't looking at the bigger picture of whats important for the country as a whole in my opinion.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I am being realistic. You are being greedy and unrealistic in my opinion, by not looking at the situation as it would be... but as how you would want it to be.

I'm looking at what best for the country. I could careless what media thinks.. We all know they have their picks as well. Obama will not pick base on the media.

 

[Cheebs]

this is what i'm talking about with change

I understand Selebius talk, a lot in the media like to talk about her chances. But Feingold? He hasnt even been discussed ONCE. You are better off citing reasons why Batman should be VP.

I'm looking at what best for the country. I could careless what media thinks.. We all know they have their picks as well. Obama will not pick base on the media.

Whats best for the country is to get Obama elected. To do that he needs votes. Whoever the VP is that gets even a single extra vote than another should be picked IMO.

Be it Biden, Selebius, Clinton, or Hitler.

 

[LizardKing]

This is a good point, but I believe Obama as President will be enough to have influence in Washington. He doesn't need a "change" sidekick. He can deliver the message fine by himself. He really needs experience, because that will both help him in the White House with governing and it will win him votes.

and feingold has been a us senator since '92. and i know he hasn't been discussed by the media and probably doesn't have much of a shot. it's just who i want

 

[scorcho]

I said she was establishment due to her father. The person in question was not talking about experience at all his request for non-establishment VP. Experience =/= establishment.

Patrick Kennedy has weak experience but he is a establishment politician still.

Look at George W. Bush. He was a establishment candidate in 2000 thanks to his dad but he picked Cheney due to the perception he didnt have enough experience.

you're actually comparing the Sebelius name to Bush? really?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Hey, real classy name calling. Please stop talking now.

It's actually a nickname from a South Park episode, not 'name calling'

 

[scorcho]

Whats best for the country is to get Obama elected. To do that he needs votes. Whoever the VP is that gets even a single extra vote than another should be picked IMO.

Be it Biden, Selebius, Clinton, or Hitler.

i should point my friend to this post to illustrate how being an Obama Fellow is not an accomplishment.

then i'll tell him not to fuck up Virginia.

 

[Cheebs]

you're actually comparing the Sebelius name to Bush? really?

Ugh. READ. I was using Bush as an example only to showcase experience is not the same thing as establishment.

And the very next line showed I never called her establishment. I said she was only in comparison to Webb or Kaine.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Whats best for the country is to get Obama elected. To do that he needs votes. Whoever the VP is that gets even a single extra vote than another should be picked IMO.

Be it Biden, Selebius, Clinton, or Hitler.

Exactly.

We want Obama to win, and Sebelius wouldn't help him that much in my opinion.

Edit: Obviously, anyone who is as morally fucked up as Hitler, wouldn't be beneficial though lol.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I say screw what Hillary supporters might think. If Obama feels Sebellius is the best choice he should go with her and not think twice about it.

It's annoying seeing a so obviously qualified candidate be kept out of receiving such an enormous honor simply because she's a female and her receiving the VP nod might piss off female supporters of another female candidate. What Country do we live in? The females in this Country don't all bow to Hillary Clinton.

Has it really come to this where people should be afraid to do things that may or may not anger Hillary Clinton or her supporters? This isn't North Korea. Hillary Clinton isn't the "dear leader" of the United States.

If supporters get pissed off because Obama picks another female candidate, it won't be because they are in such strong support for women's rights that they can't support the decision. It will be because they are extremely bitter Hillary Clinton supporters who are more infatuated with Hillary herself than they are proud to see a woman make it as far as she has managed to do.

Hillary says she made 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, when was there a piece of legislation passed that stated Hillary Clinton is the only female allowed to shatter that ceiling? All the talk about how much she has done to empower females and help to open doors that were previously closed shouldn't just be a PR talking point that is only a sincere thought when it involves her being the female that eventually goes on to make history. Hillary supporters better get use to the fact that Hillary isn't the only capable female in this Country.

As I read more about Sebellius, I feel fairly confident that she would be a fantastic President. If she's announced as Obama's VP then we wont need to worry about how popular Hillary is. Sebellius will instantly climb that ladder and become a far bigger force in the Democratic Party than she already is.

The idea that Clinton supporters would be viciously "jealous" over "another woman" is such a stereotype.

I find it offensive

 

[Cheebs]

i should point my friend to this post to illustrate how being an Obama Fellow is not an accomplishment.

then i'll tell him not to fuck up Virginia.

I simply want Obama to win. At any cost. He can do anything short of breaking the law to win, and I'd support. I have no moral high ground in this election.

 

[Amir0x]

Soooo, what's new on the plate today? Any interesting news?

 

[Karma Kramer]

I can't believe I am agreeing with Cheebs so much. :lol

 

[Tamanon]

Soooo, what's new on the plate today? Any interesting news?

Gore to endorse Obama and appear with him tonight.

 

[Cheebs]

Soooo, what's new on the plate today? Any interesting news?

Gore endorses tonight in Detroit

Patt Solis Doyle working on Obama's VP team

No one at PoliGAF can agree on who should be vp.


Everyone was united behind Obama in the primary and now EVERYONE has their own different idea on who should be VP and are adamant:lol about it.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Soooo, what's new on the plate today? Any interesting news?

Al gore is gonna endorse Obama today in Detroit.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

John Kerry hints on Wanting to be Secretary of State

A source close to Massachusetts' John Kerry, who asked for anonymity when discussing the senator's political aspirations, says the Foreign Relations Committee's third-ranking Democrat (and 2004 presidential runner-up) is keen to be the nation's top diplomat.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/141512

 

[scorcho]

I simply want Obama to win. At any cost. He can do anything short of breaking the law to win, and I'd support. I have no moral high ground in this election.

finally, something we can agree on!

 

[Cheebs]

finally, something we can agree on!

It's all about winning. Losing with honor gets you nada.

 

[Amir0x]

my vote for VP is still Ed Rendell or Richardson.

Rendell pretty directly said "no way", however. "I learned long ago I'm no good at playing second fiddle." At least he is honest.

 

[Door2Dawn]

nvm

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

It's all about winning. Losing with honor gets you nada.

Losing with pandering gets you nada.

Obama should pick someone he can work with. No state pandering or picking a VP base on Republicans attacks that he's weak on FP etc.

 

[scorcho]

It's all about winning. Losing with honor gets you nada.

okay junior Rove.

 

[Cheebs]

Rendell will never stick to the message. He says the first thing on his mind. It's part of his charm though. I'll miss hearing his rants during the PA primary.

okay junior Rove.

Karl Rove was a political genius. He ran the 2000 and 2004 campaigns brilliantly.

While I am a Obama kool-aid drinker I am more in the James Carville camp of campaign strategy.

I just want Obama to win. I've met the man and currently work for him in a swing state. Anything possible to gain 1 extra vote is worth it.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I just want Obama to win. I've met the man and currently work for him in a swing state. Anything possible to gain 1 extra vote is worth it.

I don't want Obama to rely on State strategy for his VP choice. This did not help the democrats the last two elections and will not now.

Everyone knows in the long run VP choices means nothing. So he should choose a person who is closest to his ideals.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

my vote for VP is still Ed Rendell or Richardson.

Rendell pretty directly said "no way", however. "I learned long ago I'm no good at playing second fiddle." At least he is honest.

Rendell might be a suicidal pick after his supposed endorsement of a foreign bid on the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

The biggest attack the GOP seems to have on Obama is that they are trying to make him appear to be an unsafe choice for America.

With the news of a mystery bidder trying to take control of a strategically important Railroad here in the USA, especially in regards to our military, things such as this are becoming more of a big deal. I don't think Obama wants to back himself into such a corner.

By Adam L. Cataldo

May 19 (Bloomberg) -- Pennsylvania officials said a $12.8 billion bid from Citigroup Inc. and Abertis Infraestructuras SA won an auction to lease the state's only toll road in what would be the biggest agreement of its kind in the U.S.

New York-based Citigroup, the biggest U.S. bank by assets, and Barcelona-based Abertis, which operates toll roads in Europe and Latin America, topped two other offers. The next-highest bid was $12.1 billion by New York's Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Transurban Group, Australia's second-largest toll-road operator.

Pennsylvania Governor Edward Rendell wants to lease the 537- mile (864-kilometer) Turnpike for 75 years if the U.S. government rejects the state's application to put tolls on Interstate 80. Money from a turnpike lease would help the state close a $1.7 billion gap in transportation funding.

``This bid will allow us to increase spending on roads, bridges and transit above what is in the current plan, Act 44, which includes plans to tolls I-80,'' Rendell said at a press conference in Harrisburg. ``This is a very good deal.''

Rendell first proposed leasing the Turnpike last year and dropped his plan amid opposition from the Legislature. To fund transportation spending, he signed into law Act 44, which allowed the state to establish tolls on the 311-mile I-80. Those tolls are opposed by elected officials including U.S. Representatives John E. Peterson and Phil English, both Republicans.

Turnpike Plan

That opposition led Rendell to revive his Turnpike lease plan less than a month after signing the bill. Pennsylvania won't lease the Turnpike if putting tolls on I-80 is approved, Rendell has said.

If a transaction does take place, the Turnpike will be controlled by a newly created company, Pennsylvania Transportation Partners, said Roy Kienitz, Rendell's deputy chief of staff. Abertis said in a statement it will have a 50 percent stake in the company, Citigroup will own 41.7 percent, and Criteria CaixaCorp SA, an investment company based in Madrid, will have the remaining 8.3 percent.

Citigroup rose 19 cents today to $23.31 at 1:37 p.m. on the New York Stock Exchange. Trading in Madrid on Abertis stock was suspended by regulators just prior to today's announcement, after rising 20 cents to 21.08 euros. Trading will resume tomorrow, according to the exchange's regulator.

A bid of $8.1 billion was submitted by Sydney-based Macquarie Infrastructure Group and Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte SA, based in Madrid. Since their offer wasn't within 10 percent of the highest bid, the companies were prevented from making a best and final offer at the end of last week, Rendell said.

Deal Terms

The driver of a passenger vehicle pays $22.75 to travel 358 miles on the Turnpike from Pennsylvania's border with Ohio to the New Jersey state line. That trip will increase under the terms of the agreement set by the state to at least $36.40 in 10 years.

Terms of the lease agreement would allow the operator of the Turnpike to raise tolls by 25 percent Jan. 1. Tolls then increase 2.5 percent annually or match the rise in the consumer price index if it is higher. The state needs legislative approval before it can sign a final agreement.

Rendell is a Democrat and his party controls the House of Representatives. Republicans control the Senate.

Legislative approval for leasing the Turnpike won't come quickly, said G. Terry Madonna, a political science professor at Franklin & Marshall College in Lancaster, who tracks state politics and government.

``I would be stunned, stunned if they got this done by June 30,'' Madonna said in an interview prior to today's announcement. The state needs to pass a budget by then for the start of the 2009 fiscal year on July 1. The Legislature is considering a health-care plan to provide coverage for all state residents and energy measures proposed by Rendell.

To contact the reporter on this story: Adam L. Cataldo in New York at [email protected].

 

[Cheebs]

I don't want Obama to rely on State strategy for his VP choice. This did not help the democrats the last two elections and will not now.

Everyone knows in the long run VP choices means nothing. So he should choose a person who is closest to his ideals.

I agree state strategy fails. But image strategy worked. It worked with Cheney when people claimed W. was too in-experienced. It helped Kennedy in 1960 to have a elder statesman when he was the fresh catholic kid...etc.

I think Obama needs his own LBJ.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Sebelius' track record as governor (which is executive experience) would counter the "inexperience" claim.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I agree state strategy fails. But image strategy worked. It worked with Cheney when people claimed W. was too in-experienced. It helped Kennedy in 1960 to have a elder statesman when he was the fresh catholic kid...etc.

I think Obama needs his own LBJ.

The thing about Sebelius is when people hear about her they love her. All is needed is a media bliss telling her story.

 

[Cheebs]

Sebelius' track record as governor (which is executive experience) would counter the "inexperience" claim.

Yes but it isn't lengthy. It's only 1 year longer than Obama was in the senate. She has never held state wide office till 2003. Experience is like Biden's 42199452958 years in the senate or Webb's lengthy armed service record...etc.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Sebelius' track record as governor (which is executive experience) would counter the "inexperience" claim.

Don't be so naive... the mainstream media is going to see her and see it nothing as a way for Obama to court the women vote.

If I could pick the dream ticket, it would probably be both of them sure... but you got to make sacrifices to win.

 

[scorcho]

i love discussing politics in the abstract devoid of policy.

 

[Cheebs]

i love discussing politics in the abstract devoid of policy.

there is nothing to discuss till the convention but VP choices which no one can agree on.

 

[Tamanon]

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/6/16/124515/466

QUESTION: The European Union has set mandatory targets on renewable energy. Is that something you would consider in a McCain administration? [...]

MCCAIN: Sure. I believe in the cap-and-trade system, as you know. I would not at this time make those -- impose a mandatory cap at this time. But I do believe that we have to establish targets for reductions of greenhouse gas emissions over time, and I think those can be met.

This isn't the first time McCain has misunderstood his own policy on cap-and-trade. In the Republican debate in Florida in January, he also denied that his cap-and-trade program included a mandatory cap on carbon.

He also appeared confused about the definition of cap-and-trade in an interview with Greenwire

It's not quote mandatory caps. It's cap-and-trade, OK. It's not mandatory caps to start with. It's cap-and-trade. That's very different. OK, because that's a gradual reduction in greenhouse-gas emissions. So please portray it as cap-and-trade. That's the way I call it

Um....does McCain not know his own economic policies?

 

[SouthernDragon]

I would argue that the Obama campaign can hammer out the list of achievements she's achieved. Obama's campaign has proven effective at getting a message out, I'd trust them to do right by Sebelius.

What scandals would Sebelius have, anyways? The other guys have easily exploitable weaknesses, and Obama would have to waste time fending that off. Someone like Sebelius would really save him many headaches.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

McCain gets upset when Reporters about the "rape joke supporter"

Three days after rescheduling a fundraiser that had been planned at the home of a supporter who joked about rape, Republican presidential candidate John McCain continues to face questions about why he is keeping the $300,000 raised by Texas oilman Clayton Williams.

At a press conference in Arlington, Virginia, CNN’s Dana Bash asked McCain why his staff had even scheduled a fundraiser with Williams, who in 1990 joked that rape was like bad weather: “As long as it’s inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it.”

The question visibly agitated McCain. He furrowed his brow, fidgeted with his notes, blinked rapidly, scowled, squinted, scoffed and grimaced as Bash was completing her question.

Finally he said, “my people were not aware of a statement he made 16 or 18 years ago. I’ve forgotten how many years ago it was.”

McCain defended the decision to keep the money Williams raised, after Democrats hit him on the decision earlier in the day.

“The people that contributed are supporters of mine, not supporters of his, so when we found out that this was planned there, we said, ‘No, we’ll reschedule it, and do it some place else,’ and I understand that he’s not attending,” McCain said. “I don’t, that’s pretty much the sum of it all.”

A couple of more toughies, and you'd better duck.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Rape joke? wut wut?

 

[Mandark]

Whats best for the country is to get Obama elected. To do that he needs votes. Whoever the VP is that gets even a single extra vote than another should be picked IMO.

Be it Biden, Selebius, Clinton, or Hitler.

God forbid something should happen to Obama if he were to become president, but it's a possibility.

In the event that a President Obama did die or become incapacitated, I would prefer -- nay, strongly prefer -- not to be ruled by a president Hitler.

 

[StoOgE]

He cant pick another Senator, its a really bad move.

He needs to pick a Governor or someone with experience in a cabinet position.

My fav is Richardson followed by Selibius, but I think Clark makes alot of sense too.

I like Webb alot, but I think he brings too much baggage (much like Clinton).

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

:lol It's a meme now. The fist-bump is a mandatory greeting with Obama.

Can I get a wonder twins activate background on this?

 

[Cheebs]

God forbid something should happen to Obama if he were to become president, but it's a possibility.

In the event that a President Obama did die or become incapacitated, I would prefer -- nay, strongly prefer -- not to be ruled by a president Hitler.

He'd have the democrat congress keeping his antisemitism in check.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Rape joke? wut wut?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5838255.html

McCain campaign officials changed plans after being contacted by reporters calling attention to Williams' comment 18 years ago seeming to liken bad weather to rape.

"As long as it's inevitable," Williams was reported as saying, "you might as well lie back and enjoy it."

 

[Farmboy]

my vote for VP is still Ed Rendell or Richardson.

Rendell pretty directly said "no way", however. "I learned long ago I'm no good at playing second fiddle." At least he is honest.

Just to prove Cheebs' point: I think Rendell is terrible. But can we at least all agree that Kaine and Biden would be good picks? I don't think I've heard anyone blast them yet.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Just to prove Cheebs' point: I think Rendell is terrible. But can we at least all agree that Kaine and Biden would be good picks? I don't think I've heard anyone blast them yet.

Biden would be good... but I would really like to see a governor and not a senator. But I love Biden. He is awesome.

 

[Cheebs]

I just turned on Hardball and its a roundtable about Russert. I am begining to think they are dragging this on, Russert would want them to be talking about the Solis Doyle and Gore news I think.

 

[Tamanon]

Just make it Edwards and call it a day

Cheebs: Matthews only did a short bit on his hero on Friday, this is his way of grieving, I'm sure it'll be the last real bit on Russert today.