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[Bojji]

games like FF16 and Jedi Survivor should’ve just been 30 fps. 60 fps with sub 720p internal res is a joke.

After they removed RT in performance mode Jedi survivor is not that bad, internal res is higher and frame rate is better. Forcing RT is not a great idea on these consoles and I'm really interested how GTA 6 with RT lighting will perform, so far all GTA games performed like dog shit on their target platforms.

 

[Halo is Back]

Yeah, not a big deal to me either. 30 fps won't keep me from buying a game I'm interested in.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

games like FF16 and Jedi Survivor should’ve just been 30 fps. 60 fps with sub 720p internal res is a joke.

Speak for yourself. Up-scaling doesn't brother me, and I'd rather have the higher framerate.
Its an option for retro framerates for people who enjoy that.

 

[Bernardougf]

Welp... easy pass for me ... not playing 30 fps games anymore ... maybe if they do a Pro version later .. if not... fuck it

 

[CrustyBritches]

games like FF16 and Jedi Survivor should’ve just been 30 fps. 60 fps with sub 720p internal res is a joke.

I played through FFXVI completely in performance. Although I did switch from the 65” tv to my 32” gaming monitor and max out the sharpness. The quality mode had severe ghosting from motion blur pre-patch and the combat felt leagues better in performance mode. I’d say pre-patch the performance mode looked better in play due to the ghosting in quality.

 

[Insane Metal]

Not to single you guys out but these kinds of threads just show how unbelievable (and irrational) the gaming audience is. ONE game is mentioned as a rumor (unconfirmed) to be limited to 30fps and everyone is having a fit and calling the consoles weak. You guys spend all of last gen for more than 10 years wishing and hoping to get to a place where 60fps is more common and closer to the norm. So in the 3 years since the release of PS5 and Xbox Series, you do realize that >95% of ALL games released natively on these machines run at 60fps or higher! We've never had anywhere near that % in the past 30 years of console generations (3D era beginning with PS1). Want to think about the most graphically intensive games to come out this gen so far and tell me how many of them actually are limited to 30fps?

Cyberpunk 2077 ? 60 check!
Alan Wake 2? 60 check!
Avatar FOP? 60 check!
Jedi Survivor? 60 check!
Dead Space Remake? 60 check!
Callisto Protocol? 60 check!
Metro Enhanced (RT Only)? 60 check!
Witcher 3 Next Gen (RT)? 60 check!
Immortals of Aviem (UE5)? 60 check!
GOW R, Horizon Fobidden West, Spider Man 2, Rachet & Clank Rift Apart, Demons Souls, TLOU PT1 & 2, and virtually all Sony 1st parties releases so far? 60 Check!
RE3/4 Remake, Forspoken, FFVII Remake, FFXVI, Lords of the Fallen, Hogwarts Legacy, every Assassin's Creed release on current gen, Forza Horizon 5, A Plague's Tale Requiem, Hitman 3, Dying Light 2, Elden Ring, Diablo IV.......DO I NEED TO GO ON? 60 Check!

OK in fact, let's do it this way. Someone quickly name me 10 games this ENTIRE generation of consoles that are limited to 30fps max? Just 10 out of the >600 native current gen titles of titles that have released so far. Go ahead I'll wait.......actually I'll give you a headstart:

1. Gotham Knights
2. Starfield
3. Industria
4. The Quarry
5. Microsoft Flight Sim (XSS/XSX)
6. Redfall? (Nope fixed with 60fps patch)
7. A Plague's Tale Requiem? (Nope fixed with 60fps patch)
8. Matrix Awakens Demo? (Nope not a full game release)

And yet all I see on these forums are people bitching and complaining about performance and weak consoles. If it has 60fps then it's complaining about the concessions made and how low the resolution is now. We have games with real-time ray tracing and 60fps in a $500 box when just 1 year before they launched, folks would have laughed in your face if you said that we'd see any ray traced games in a console so soon. Oh but now let's complain that the ray count is too low. We have >100 games pushing 120fps modes, we have VRR support with native 4K fidelity modes pushing 40-60fps. We have AAA games with <5s load times and super clean IQ with superior upscaling/reconstruction (see me if you remember how games looked on the PS2 and PS3). But then let's complain about how we shouldn't need upscaling to deliver this performance because my $1500+ PC doesn't need it for the same settings.

Seriously, gamers are just impossible to please and it's pretty embarrassing to be honest

Just to be clear, I don't give a fuck if the game runs at 30fps, it's just a fact. These CPUs are old now and more demanding games probably won't run at high frame rates, that is all.

 

[JayK47]

I am sure it plays fine, but GAF gotta GAF.

 

[Švejk]

I have the same setup but I am going with 60fps

One of my reasons, PS5 will most likely have the highest install base. Whoring my pawn out should benefit to higher intake of rift crystals.

 

[playsaves3]

They're going to cut corners with the Pro as well. The only way to avoid this is by speccing out your gaming hardware to your exact preference.

If your referring to spec leaks I don’t believe them

 

[Mister Wolf]

If your referring to spec leaks I don’t believe them

I'm implying PC. That way you can target whatever performance you want.

 

[playsaves3]

Just to be clear, I don't give a fuck if the game runs at 30fps, it's just a fact. These CPUs are old now and more demanding games probably won't run at high frame rates, that is all.

Exactly I warned everyone zen 2 wasn’t good enough in YouTube communities and I was laughed at

 

[playsaves3]

I'm implying PC. That way you can target whatever performance you want.

I get the vibe this won’t run well on pc

 

[Mister Wolf]

I get the vibe this won’t run well on pc

Depends on your hardware. Which was the point I'm stressing. I'm suspicious that they are running using RTGI on the console versions and that's the main culprit why it's 30fps. The PC crowd will just turn that shit off or lower other settings if they insist on having 60fps.

Dragon's Dogma 2 will be "enhanced with RTX" - Nvidia confirms - OC3D

Dragon's Dogma 2 will be launching on PC with RTX support. DLSS 3, ray traced reflections, and ray traced lighting will be supported day-1.

overclock3d.net

"Nvidia has confirmed that Dragon’s Dogma 2 will be “enhanced with RTX” revealing that the game will support ray traced reflections and ray traced lighting on PC"

 

[Neilg]

lol at everyone saying 'but it doesn't look that demanding'

It's a game where you can have a firestorm and tornado spell hit at once, while you dynamically climb up an animated physics based creature with tons of destruction and shit flying around. it ain't 30fps because of the quiet moments.

There's no way all the people bailing on a purchase over this would have cared about the game anyway. Genuinely one of the most unique and interesting combat systems ever designed, taxing hardware to the max in how complex it is, and the deal breaker is that they didn't dumb down the combat and physics enough for you to get a higher fps.
I've said it before, but I'm so glad people whining about what dd2 is missing don't have a say in how it's turning out.

 

[Ywap]

See this is why the PS5 Pro is needed. There's enough 30 fps haters out there.

I haven't been been following the latest rumors but weren't the cpu upgrade for the Pro just supposed to a minor speed bump?

 

[Shake Your Rump]

I am sure it plays fine, but GAF gotta GAF.

Word. I played 120 hours of Monster Hunter World at 30fps on my PS4 Pro with no issue. I suspect much of this chatter is from people looking for any reason to not play a game. Maybe the same people who don’t buy Prince of Persia, which run at 120fps on PS5, because it looks like a PS3 game.

 

[Simpkin92]

It’s a pass for me. I already didn’t like some of the mentioned game mechanics and now this is the last straw. 30fps is the main reason I never played Starfield enough to even be disappointed with it. I tried; I hate it. 30fps = no buy

 

[Madonis]

I'm hoping they'll optimize it over time with patches for both consoles and PC.

 

[Tqaulity]

Just to be clear, I don't give a fuck if the game runs at 30fps, it's just a fact. These CPUs are old now and more demanding games probably won't run at high frame rates, that is all.

Exactly I warned everyone zen 2 wasn’t good enough in YouTube communities and I was laughed at

But see herein lies my point. Everyone talking about the consoles being "weak" or "underpowered" are comparing it to what? Typically to the start of the art of what is commercially available on PC right (with completely different price, power, size, and performance targets BTW). So someone says, here we have 7950XD Zen 4 CPUs now and those old consoles with Zen2 CPUs is "outdated" and weak. But that's the wrong way to look at it. The proper perspective to keep here is to compare it on the software that is available and written for the hardware and see if the system can hit it's intended targets. People in the PC world just love focusing on individual components and judging their power (this is how market operates afterall). But a gaming system is just that...a system with many components coming together to deliver a certain level gaming experience. A Zen2 in a PS5 or XSX isn't the same as a Zen2 with the same core count in a PC environment. That's obvious...but the consoles have the luxury of being designed to hit a certain target and balance all of the components to achieve that.

The fact of the matter is I just pointed out how there aren't even 10/600 games for these consoles that are limited to 30fps. That says everything about how sufficient the CPUs are in those boxes. Why, because clearly the games available today aren't pushing the CPU much beyond that. Having a 16+ Core Zen 4 CPU is largely wasteful on today's games (no wonder most games today would rarely see such a CPU go beyond 10-20% utilization). This is especially true in a console where the target is 60fps and not 300+ fps like some PC gamers like to do. Since >95% of games have achieved that target thus far, it's silly to say that the CPU is "weak" for what it is and what it is intended to do. Of course we'll get heavier games that push those Zen2 CPUs to their limits in the future (hello GTAVI) but we've never seen a console generation deliver such consistent performance across this many titles 3 years into their life.

Case in point, it didn't take any more than the launch of the PS4 to see how "weak" it's CPU was given the software it was running (even compared to the state of the art, the PS4 CPU was weaker than the Cell in the PS3 in many ways). Remember the "unlocked" frame rate on 1st party title Killzone shadowfall which hovered around 30fps most of the time? Or how BF4 had to be reduced to 900p and still couldn't maintain 60fps? What about how erratic that frame graph was in COD: Ghosts at launch with its 60fps target? Or how even cross gen titles like AC IV was limited to 30fps just like the previous gen versions. Then there were the countless games where developers publicly said they were shooting for 60fps target....but couldn't hit it in the end: Uncharted 4, Driveclub, Infamous Second Son, Watch Dogs, etc.

So what exactly is the Zen 2 CPU in these consoles not good enough for? The 5 or so games locked to 30fps? All the advanced physics, AI, and simulation that have to be dumbed down for the console versions of titles that run so well on PC? Or is to keep up with all of those titles that have stuttering and frame spikes on PC despite having 16+ cores running at 4Ghz or more on newer architectures than the consoles? Or maybe it's to make up for all of those gimped console titles with lower online player counts, fewer NPCs, lower world density, reduced AI, and longer load times.

 

[KiteGr]

PC it is then...

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hopefully the pc version is decent. Better to pick it up there Gaf if it's a good pc build.

 

[rofif]

All you guys are quick to give up disc ownership and playing the game on a console just for 30fps.
This is really unhealthy outlook.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

All you guys are quick to give up disc ownership and playing the game on a console just for 30fps.
This is really unhealthy outlook.

Nope

 

[Heart_Attack]

The $70 price tag is more of a problem to me. Fuck that.

 

[lh032]

games like FF16 and Jedi Survivor should’ve just been 30 fps. 60 fps with sub 720p internal res is a joke.

Subpar 60fps still better than subpar 30fps (let's be real ,game is not going to cap at 30fps)


More option is better than none

I always always opt for subpar 60fps and subpar resolution , over subpar 30 fps with higher resolution

 

[Seyken]

lol at everyone saying 'but it doesn't look that demanding'

It's a game where you can have a firestorm and tornado spell hit at once, while you dynamically climb up an animated physics based creature with tons of destruction and shit flying around. it ain't 30fps because of the quiet moments.

There's no way all the people bailing on a purchase over this would have cared about the game anyway. Genuinely one of the most unique and interesting combat systems ever designed, taxing hardware to the max in how complex it is, and the deal breaker is that they didn't dumb down the combat and physics enough for you to get a higher fps.
I've said it before, but I'm so glad people whining about what dd2 is missing don't have a say in how it's turning out.

Same as the original. Which debuted as a Playstation THREE game. Of course the new one wants to do more, but that's to be expected of a game releasing 2 generations afterwards. Hell, Zelda TOTK came out last year and blew everyone's mind with all the physics based stuff and on a goddamn Switch, which is much weaker than your average cellphone.

Nowadays, people (me included) are used to having the option of playing their games at 60 fps. So when designing their games, developers should account for that and create visuals that can hold the desired frame rate. That was supposed to be console's advantage, everyone has the same box, so developers can optimize or hold back where needed. I don't care if the game has to sacrifice some visual candy, getting to 60 fps is MUCH more important than that in an action game.

 

[Bojji]

60 fps was never about hardware power but developers choices, I don't think anyone really thinks that these consoles are weak. BUT if game has forced RT you can already see that developers have made some wrong choices here, consoles are weak for Ray tracing and with this thing I can see why game couldn't run above 30. But why not give players choice to turn this shit off?

 

[stickkidsam]

As long as it’s stable I don’t care.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Devs that targets only 30fps can go fuck themselves, that's my message to them.

AT LEAST give us 40fps or GTFO.

30fps would be okay in a game like the last of us. But in an action RPG? 60fps or GTFO.

 

[yanhash]

 

[GymWolf]

The more I read about Dragon's Dogma 2, the less I like, lots of design decisions that have been discovered recently that aren't great imo. A shame really, the combat and character creation look good, I would have played it if the director wasn't so dead set on bringing back poor design mechanics from the first game which were already outdated at the time, 12 years ago, mechanics which cost it alot of review points at the time.

Guess maybe I will play it on PC where mods will likely drop to fix those mechanics.

In a post elden ring world i think reviewers are gonna pretend to like these "hardcore" mechanics a lot and the game is gonna score much, much higher.

Pretty sure that the big hype around the game is caused by elden ring and partially totk, not because that many people actually liked the first one (that was fun but very rough around the edges)

This is another hardcore, open world action rpgs with no hand holdind, journalist and many people are gonna pretend to like a lot of things just to be on the right side of the narrative\history, mark my words, i can feel this in the air already.

And this comes from a dude who preordered the game (on pc of course)

 

[yamaci17]

Exactly I warned everyone zen 2 wasn’t good enough in YouTube communities and I was laughed at

of course, it was a big jump over how pathetic jaguar cores were

but in hindsight, zen 2 was pathetic too. people actually laughed at the idea of pairing anything above 3060 with a zen 2 cpu. yet you will find console folks here that will rage when anyone pairs anything above a 3080 with a zen 3 or zen 4 cpu and claim the tests with those gpus should be done on pathetic 2017-worthy performance CPUs lol

zen 2 is an architecture that literally traded blows with intel architectures from 2017. you could find cases (rarely though) where a 4/8 7700k outperforming a ryzen 3600 and not to mention that ryzen 3600 runs at 4+ ghz and has 32 mb l3 cache. console is much worse, at 3.6 ghz and with 8 mb cache and of course more limited bandwidth, the bandwidth that zen architecture is so reliant on.

zen 2 still traded belows with the likes of 8700k consistently. it is just how it is. the reason zen 3 was a big upgrade over zen 2 was primarily because zen 2 was so bad that anything worthwhile over it would be a massive improvement no matter what.

 

[Naked Lunch]

Major bummer.
Dogma's whole selling point is that its an RPG with Devil May Cry combat - and no 60fps just kills that.

Now I cant remember but Im pretty sure the first one wasnt 60fps either - but thats where the hope for the next gen version comes in.
Oh well.

 

[Bojji]

Major bummer.
Dogma's whole selling point is that its an RPG with Devil May Cry combat - and no 60fps just kills that.

Now I cant remember but Im pretty sure the first one wasnt 60fps either - but thats where the hope for the next gen version comes in.
Oh well.

First game was ~20 FPS on PS3:



Locked 30 on PS4, only PC version offered more than that.

 

[Fbh]

games like FF16 and Jedi Survivor should’ve just been 30 fps. 60 fps with sub 720p internal res is a joke.

Personally I disagree.
IMO both games should have scaled back their visuals to the point they are able to run at 60fps and decent resolution.
Haven't played Jedi Survivor but from what I've seen it got a nice boost in image quality and performance by just disabling RT in performance mode (without loosing much visually).

FFXVI had an underwhelming presentation IMO, specially considering performance mode drops down to 720p. Neither visually nor mechanically does it do anything to justify running that poorly.
The cutscenes, some boss encounters and some specific locations look good but 90% of the time it's just an average looking game with boring empty levels that just have small groups of enemies in static locations, no cool physics or interactivity, no dynamic encounters, no cities (just small towns with few NPC's), small and boring dungeons consisting of battle arenas interconnected by corridors, etc.

 

[GymWolf]

First game was ~20 FPS on PS3:



Locked 30 on PS4, only PC version offered more than that.

And the combat was nothing like devil may cry.

 

[Naked Lunch]

And the combat was nothing like devil may cry.

Whatever bro.
The one class literally had the same move set as Dante, stingers and all.
The director of Dogma was a director of some of the DMCs.

The combat of Dogma far more action oriented than any other rpg, Souls included.
Thats the main selling point. Finally an RPG with some actual combat gameplay beyond the basic, plain jane - Skyrims, Zeldas, Witchers of the world.

 

[Clear]

Thats the main selling point. Finally an RPG with some actual combat gameplay beyond the basic, plain jane - Skyrims, Zeldas, Witchers of the world.

And it has that, but its still not DMC-style. Its actually closest to something like Shadow Of The Colossus, just with a much expanded class-system for versatile playstyles and full AI party mechanics which are actually useful. Its basically an offline-focussed MMORPG.

 

[Naked Lunch]

And it has that, but its still not DMC-style. Its actually closest to something like Shadow Of The Colossus, just with a much expanded class-system for versatile playstyles and full AI party mechanics which are actually useful. Its basically an offline-focussed MMORPG.

Well sure - its not a 1 to 1 copy, no.
But I still say its the closest any RPG ever came to DMC style. Like I said - the one class literally has the same moveset as Dante.

My beef with the original Dogma is that it was just too easy. Doing all those fancy moves was kind of pointless in the end. I hope the challenge is buffed.

 

[saintjules]

Is it the devs decision from the beginning or is it because the consoles are simply not capable?

I remember when DF said with FFXVI the observation was that the team in the late stages of development only then tried to implement performance mode. But the vision was 30fps from the very beginning.

 

[GymWolf]

N

Well sure - its not a 1 to 1 copy, no.
But I still say its the closest any RPG ever came to DMC style. Like I said - the one class literally has the same moveset as Dante.

My beef with the original Dogma is that it was just too easy. Doing all those fancy moves was kind of pointless in the end. I hope the challenge is buffed.

Darksiders 2 was way more similar to dmc than dogma.
About dogma 1 challenge level, i'm 30 hours in on hard more and except for the absurd damage output or dying because i have to babysit my pawns , the game is pretty easy and the enemies are pretty stupid and basic, the big ones are very slow.

They really need an overhaul in the sequel.

 

[Famipan]

It's probably because game logic/animations is tied to 30fps.
Or is there any 60fps mod to Dragon's Dogma which successfully adds it without getting bugs?

 

[Neilg]

Is it the devs decision from the beginning or is it because the consoles are simply not capable?

I firmly believe if these consoles had double the CPU power, they'd simply add twice as many physics and particle effects and still cap it at 30. It's about pushing the console as hard as possible.

Also LOL at DMC combat. So many people here clearly never played the first. It's not a fast paced game. The combat has a lot going on but it's not remotely fast or twitchy.

 

[rodrigolfp]

It's probably because game logic/animations is tied to 30fps.
Or is there any 60fps mod to Dragon's Dogma which successfully adds it without getting bugs?

Nope.
The PC versions are unlocked to the sky and beyond...

 

[Naked Lunch]

N

Darksiders 2 was way more similar to dmc than dogma.
About dogma 1 challenge level, i'm 30 hours in on hard more and except for the absurd damage output or dying because i have to babysit my pawns , the game is pretty easy and the enemies are pretty stupid and basic, the big ones are very slow.

They really need an overhaul in the sequel.

Ill have to give Darksiders 2 a look. I know nothing about it. Thanks.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Is it the devs decision from the beginning or is it because the consoles are simply not capable?

I bet it's both.

 

[saintjules]

I bet it's both.

I was wondering if it was both indeed.

Seems mid-gen refreshes might be more warranted than most want it to be.

 

[SeriousCrayon]

Try playing 30fps on OLED then. It will change your opinion. Complete garbage.

I disagree..I have a 77C1 and have no issues with 30 FPS games on it.

 

[Fbh]

Is it the devs decision from the beginning or is it because the consoles are simply not capable?

I remember when DF said with FFXVI the observation was that the team in the late stages of development only then tried to implement performance mode. But the vision was 30fps from the very beginning.

It's both I guess.
Consoles will always have limited power. In a market with $1500 GPUs and $600 CPUs it's unlikely you'll ever get $500 consoles that can handle everything you can imagine with no compromises.
But at the same it's up to devs to decide how to use the power that is available and what aspect of the game is more important to them.

For me personally, the thing is that with stagnant game design and diminishing returns in terms of visuals, I've yet to play a 30fps game this gen that feels like it gained anything valuable by giving up performance.
As I mentioned in a post above, IMO FFXVI looks quite average most of the time and the design of the world is very boring and dated. Whatever it gained by focusing on making it a 30fps experience was absolutely not worth it . Jedi Survivor is a similar example, they decided Ray Tracing was more important than performance which definitely wasn't worth it (at least in the performance mode), specially now that we have seen how similar it looks with no RT while running significantly better.

 

[blue velvet]

Imo, the minimum fps for games on modern consoles should be 40fps. From my experience on PC, it still perfectly playable and responsive with First Person and Third person games. 30 frames just feel like a slideshow, can't believe this has been the customary since PS3/360 era.