Dirk Benedict
Member
He would have been my pick
Shuhei Yoshida Says Japan Studio Closed Due to PlayStation Not Wanting AA Titles
- Thread starter LavitzSlambert
- Start date
- News
It's silly to be talking about retail store promos when talking about indie games like REPO, Vampire Survivors, Miside, Crow Country, etc. We're not talking about games that got a physical release. He's talking about small indie games that "nobody has ever heard of" being able to make it big.
Last edited:
xrnzaaas
Member
Sony abandoning smaller releases is really a shame. Not everyone is interested in AAA(A) games, you can't release more than 1-2 per year and they could also feature some smaller games in PS+ Extra/Premium to have more day1 releases.
Plus they have a really cool lineup of IP's they could bring back or continue. Housemarque's portfolio alone would be enough, like releasing the sequels of Resogun or Dead Nation.
Plus they have a really cool lineup of IP's they could bring back or continue. Housemarque's portfolio alone would be enough, like releasing the sequels of Resogun or Dead Nation.
Last edited:
Grizzled Ghost
Member
Scrolling through Japan Studios release history is wild.
They published 16 games a year in 97 and 98. 30 in 1999!
Today it feels like we only get a handful of first party games a generation lol.
They published 16 games a year in 97 and 98. 30 in 1999!
Today it feels like we only get a handful of first party games a generation lol.
PixelatedBeast
Member
A lot of things have changed in 10 years and Microsoft buying ABK has forced Sony to grow their business model and start looking to build their own GAAS. They cant sit back and keep relying on 3rd party devs for multiplayer revenue like they did before when theres the threat of a big tech companies like Microsoft, Apple, Facebook or Amazon flexing their financial muscle. Not only that, but if the future of gaming evolves into what digital platform or store has the best content to subscribe to, then they would rather prepare for that as a possibility than not be prepared at all.
There is still plenty of AAA games being released on the PS5, as well as better VR games than what the PSVR1 had. Ive had WAY more games to enjoy now than what I had on the PS4 around this time.
The arguement of whether some PS5 games are exclusive or not means nothing to me. Im not going back to 30fps, so even if the games I do enjoy can be played on a PS4 is a moot point. I can save gas with car that has a 4 cylinder engine, but I dont enjoy driving cars that takes 8 seconds to reach 60mph.
Last edited:
that's irrelevant to the discussion. We're talking about OUTPUT. It doesn't matter which platforms is released for, the fact of the matter is PlayStation studios produced those games in that time frame.
Last edited:
Fabieter
Member
By April 25, 2018, PS4 had released Sony exclusives such as Killzone: Shadow Fall, Knack, Infamous Second Son, Gravity Rush Remastered, The Order: 1886, Bloodborne, Until Dawn, Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End, The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Everybody’s Golf, Gran Turismo Sport, Shadow of the Colossus (Remake), and God of War (2018). There were also some smaller titles like resogun, aliennation, helldivers 1 and matterfall.
Sick lineup and almost all of them exclusive to ps4. No pc release no crossgen. It had quality and quantity. I dont know maybe it's just my preference tho. Ps3 had a stupid architecture if you add their lineup from 2013 on top for that than that timefrime is even better. If Sony already had x86 with ps3 all those 2013 ps3 would have been crossgen. So its not even a contest.
Last edited:
This year PS Studios is releasing Ghost of Yotei and Death Standing 2, so those should make up for those 2018 games you're so eager to include in there, just because releases don't usually fall on the same months in a calendar year...You're also including a fair bunch of games that although exclusives were not from Playstation Studios like all those from Housemarque you listed, you also included Bloodborne, again not a PS Studio game and you know that very well. PlayStation 5 has also had many 3rd party/2nd party collaborations, and games that to this day are still console exclusive to PS5, I didn't count any of those because that's irrelevant to the discussion here. Yeah, it always comes down to preference, but facts are facts, and Sony Studios have had just as strong output this generation as they had last gen.
Last edited:
Fabieter
Member
Bro you mentioned helldivers 2 and demons souls as well. Let's do it further show us all those collaborations which are fully owned by Sony.
There are two key differences between these generations. First, cross-gen wasn’t really a thing back then. Games that are cross-gen now would have been last-gen exclusives in the past. God of War 2 was released exclusively on PS2 well after the PS3 launched. Gran Turismo 6 came out on PS3 after the PS4 was already available.
Second, what really makes the PS5 generation feel worse is how many games have been cancelled. Their lack of a clear strategy—especially around live service games—has made this generation feel directionless and disappointing.
and yet the output of PS Studios (the matter at hand in this conversation) has been pretty much the same as last gen launch-aligned. I don't care about what you feel worse, sucks for you.
Last edited:
Physiognomonics
Member
No kidding. They want third person story narrative and cinematic AAA shooters for their SP and GAAS for their MP.
Unknown?
Member
That's only good Japan studio game since PS2.
Last edited:
Fabieter
Member
So we don't like puppeteer and gravity rush anymore?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It's a stupid and unsustainable long-term bet. If you have a massive flop, it can tank the entire publisher. It's a way better option to have a good spread of the big & small, especially when it comes to having a consistent release cadence of exclusives, a requirement for platform holders IMO.
If SIE don't want the "stigma" (can't believe anyone would view it like that) of AA games on their premier label...just make a spinoff label! They've done this for film and music, why can't they for gaming? A smaller label for AA releases while the premier one handles the AAA blockbusters. That shouldn't be so hard to do.
I don't think Astro Bot is a AAA game by the metrics of budget, people involved, or time of development. To me it's a very high-quality & polished AA game that has the impression of AAA production values, but that's down to the talents of Team Asobi and SIE.
The game was developed in 3 years, much less than a typical modern AAA, and with a relatively small team size. It also has a much lower budget than something like Horizon Forbidden West, TLOU2 or especially Spiderman 3, even if it's higher-budget than most AA and especially indie titles. That's my impression on Astro Bot, anyhow.
Space Marine 2? Well I don't know the development history on that one, so maybe it more cleanly falls into the AAA territory when it comes to aspects of budget, manpower, dev time etc.
There are many reasons why a game that's good may bomb in sales. Sometimes, it's on the publisher's end; maybe they did very little or poor marketing for the game, or released it ini a bad time frame where it got easily overshadowed by other releases. SIE have made that mistake quite a few times in the past, even more recently with, say, HFW releasing just a couple weeks before Elden Ring. So it's not impossible to imagine they made a similar mistake with games like Gravity Rush 2.
Like, did GR2 even have an anime crossover? That should've been an obvious tie-in, and I'm looking it up now there was a super-short 2-episode promotional thing but they were only like 10 minutes each. So, it never got a full length series, even as half a season? That's wild to me considering the first game was only on Vita so the IP wouldn't have had much exposure to begin with prior to the sequel.
Probably because Puppeteer is too weird of a game, and Knack 1 and 2 both got awful reviews with an odd looking mascot.
When people want AA games, they want something more like these in terms of production values or gameplay. Not AAA 7 years to make budget busters, but not indie-ish low budget stuff. I quickly did a google search.
10 AA Games With AAA Appeal
Would you believe it if I told you there are 10 AA games with AAA appeal?www.dualshockers.com
How is Puppetteer too weird in a world where there are games you can play as a drug dealer or guy in a pot using a pickaxe to climb a mountain? Puppeteer was a victim of bad timing and not being enough of a game for a system that needed bigger exclusives to help it rebound against competition of the time.
It also released just months before the PS4's launch, so it ran into the same issues as GT6: too late for PS3, too soon so overshadowed by PS4.
Last edited:
Physiognomonics
Member
This. Don't forget the others failures soon to happen. Most of their big AAA games will flop (or half-flop), including from their biggest studios. Besides some people still buy PS5 to play those cheap AA games and invest into PS ecosystem. This is why people bought PS4s and invested into their digital library after PS3 great exclusive AAs games (and a few non-woke AAA games like GoW3 and TLOU). This is why people are buying Switches right now and why they are going to buy Switches 2 in droves.
EDIT: Yeah about a game like Puppeteer, a game that seemingly made not profit. But it actually did as it encouraged people to buy PS4 thinking we would get more of those interesting and unique AA Games. Same could be said about The last Guardian, Ico, Resogun or Driveclub. Driveclub sold a lot of PS4s back then just because of how fun the game was and how great it looked on those GIFs. Those accountants just don't know how gaming industry works. It's about trust, confidence, nostalgia into a brand. Remember that the last thing Jim Ryan did before leaving Sony Europe was to fire Driveclub studio! I do remember it quite well.
Last edited:
I still don't understand why they didn't make a PS4 version of Puppeteer, it would have certainly helped it and strengthen the PS4 launch lineup a bit as well. Puppeteer is still locked to the PS3 to this day, that's disgraceful.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Well, it's true. There's lots of Steam games that sold a ton (big or small indie games) with hardly any marketing except YT videos.
How many games like Vampire Survivors (which console e-stores have their share of random cheap indie games too) make it big? Hardly any. But somehow these kinds of games can explode on PC.
yurinka
Member
No, that supposed $400M budget was a lie. Concord was greenlighted by Yoshida btw.
Probably because only 4 people bought it for PS3, me being one of them. So they think its sales potential in PS4/PS5 is so small that a wouldn't be profitable to port it.
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This is actually a very smart move since they don't want to manage any studios making AA projects, better to just farm it out to a third party publisher and take a small IP ownership cut and let that third party create and distribute the game.
OuterLimits
Member
Sony first party was amazing in the PS1 through PS3 years. A huge variety of AA and AAA across many genres. Granted, I do enjoy some of their big budget AAA offerings now at times, but I do miss the Sony from late 90s until 2015 or so.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It's not hard to do because most companies out in there in any industry have their share of lower end brands, mid tier, and high end product lines. The more mainstream the company is, the more tiers they have to try covering all the bases.
But as you said, maybe game studios are afraid of the stigma thing where gamers will know Bargain Studio X comes from Company Y, so every gamer avoids games from Bargain X?
I dont a feeling Lexus buyers care the bottom brand is Toyota, or Porchse buyers care about lower tiers Audi and VW. Does a guy buying an $80,000 Lexus care that some people buy a $25,000 Corolla? Doubt it. But in gaming, maybe gamers care? Who knows.
I think a lot of it has to do with ego and simply if you got big bucks, you go big. If indie guys or small studios can make boomer shooters or Undertale or Terraria etc... I'm sure a big company can make them too with their shit loads of people and latest PC tools. But if they do, it looks bad.... a big techie gaming company should not be making 16-bit retro looking games or a fun run and gun Quake II kind kind of games for $19.99. And even $50 AA games are too low brow for them.
Last edited:
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
That's something I'll never forgive Playstation, Jim Ryan, and that jerk Hermen Hulst for.
Kaiserstark
Member
Why did Sony keep Team Asobi and make it bigger then ?
Astro Bot is still pretty close to AA. The reality is that if the rest of Japan Studio had managed to release games approaching Astro Bot's quality, the studio would still exist.
It's a bit easy to say it's only because Sony didn't want AA anymore, but the reality is that, apart from Team Asobi's games, the rest was mediocre; even Gravity Rush 2 was a disappointing sequel.
It's also too easy to say it's Sony's fault when Yoshida was managing PlayStation Studios. One might legitimately wonder if, with him, Team Asobi would have been able to grow from a team of a dozen people to over 60.
Japan Studio was a mess for years, and he clearly hasn't managed to change that.
The closure of Japan Studio is also largely his fault. He's the one who greenlit Knack and its sequel, so it's hard to believe the studio couldn't have a better pitch for a game than Knack.
Astro Bot is still pretty close to AA. The reality is that if the rest of Japan Studio had managed to release games approaching Astro Bot's quality, the studio would still exist.
It's a bit easy to say it's only because Sony didn't want AA anymore, but the reality is that, apart from Team Asobi's games, the rest was mediocre; even Gravity Rush 2 was a disappointing sequel.
It's also too easy to say it's Sony's fault when Yoshida was managing PlayStation Studios. One might legitimately wonder if, with him, Team Asobi would have been able to grow from a team of a dozen people to over 60.
Japan Studio was a mess for years, and he clearly hasn't managed to change that.
The closure of Japan Studio is also largely his fault. He's the one who greenlit Knack and its sequel, so it's hard to believe the studio couldn't have a better pitch for a game than Knack.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
I would gladly trade Team Asobi for the return of Japan Studio.Also Sony:
Yeah. But still, PS4 launched like a month after it released, it should've been planned for the PS4 launch and it clearly wasn't.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
I guess back then it was a sign of the times to come. The PS4 was already dominant and hitting homeruns left and right, but it still had its duds, some on the AAA side like The Order and Driveclub (sales-wise, the game was fine), but then the non-mainstream games like Gravity Rush 2 and The Last Guardian failed to entice enough people to secure a place for Japan Studio in the mix. I guess those two were painful failures (again, only sales-wise), and then Demon's remake was the final nail in the coffin.
Last edited:
nial
Member
What would it change compared to the very late Japan Studio era? You wouldn't be getting Gravity Rush either way, as Toyama left SIE in August 2020.
I had WKC International edition. Solid game, good times
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Super lame.
Aenima
Member
Yup. I think was since the PS4 that they told they wanted to focus on AAA games, so the closure of Japan Studio and some other AA dev studios was not surprizing, They still salvaged alot of ppl from Japan Studio since they formed Asobi Studio that is an AA studio. Ang guess what? They AA game won GOTY, but these games for better or worse, just dont pump the numbers Sony wants with they AAA games targeted to a more broad audience.
Its great that they leting other publishers revive some of they old IPs, big win for everyone.
SardineBreath
Neo Member
All of these big studios need to be making AA games on the side to prove that they're not getting complacent and full of themselves. Especially Naughty Dog.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
And it's still MIA from BC via PS3 cloud streaming on PS5, too :/
That's because PC has means of better enabling mechanisms that feed into rampant WOM and viral spread of information. You've got full Discord via desktop app, you've got Twitter/X, you've got full Youtube access, TikTok, Reddit, Facebook/Meta, and easy means to run multiple applications (game, web browser, capture program etc.) at once or simple tabbing/switching between them, plus KB&M which is just naturally better for multitasking & productivity.
Now compare that to console where you don't have multiple apps running in the same was as on PC (or not nearly to same degree, for obvious reasons), some missing major apps (i.e Reddit, TikTok), much clunkier web browsers compared to PC variants, and not nearly as streamlined or integrated KB&M support for multitasking purposes (among other things), and it's easy to see why that type of grassroots viral popularity doesn't happen on consoles the way it does on PC.
Every once in a blue moon it might happen, like when PS+ got Fall Guys that one time, but otherwise it's very rare. Add to that, a lot of those same PC features I just mentioned exist one way or another on mobile, a lot of times with ways of seamlessly linking data, social lists etc (because the social media platforms, for example, usually have mobile versions w/ sync in addition to the PC versions)...and literally everyone has a smartphone. So linking via smartphone & PC or just even relying on platform-agnostic (usually PC & mobile, sometimes also including console but console may have extra hoops to jump through) social media services is just so easy to do.
The weird part is, most gamers don't give a shit if a "prestige" publisher makes less-prestige games every now and then, nor should they. A good game is a good game, and with some of these GAAS solidifying themselves as platforms, I think that's going to make it even harder for traditional AAA in the future.
Since many AAA games now keep striving for huge open worlds and top-of-the-line graphics, plus Hollywood talent, not to mention more expensive licenses, that's going to continue leading to budget creep. Some technologies involving AI will help cut back on a few of the costs, but maybe not enough for certain AAA. At some point the costs to develop don't make sense for the returns (sales & revenue). Also, I think many of the players sinking time into the (small range of very huge) GAAS would rather smaller, shorter games break up their sessions of those GAAS titles.
So all the more reason, it wouldn't make sense for SIE to shut out handling more AA production themselves.
This isn't necessarily true. PS4's big AAA bangers didn't start coming until 2016 if you go by Uncharted 4; Bloodborne is a big deal now, but it wasn't seen as on the level of a TLOU, GT, or Elden Ring when it released. Heck the Souls games didn't start getting big in popularity until like a year or so after Dark Soul 3 released IIRC.
In the early PS4 years SIE were leaning heavily on indies and some AA, so them getting PS4 versions of Puppeteer would've made sense...but it never happened. Yet Tearaway, another more niche platformer, did get a PS4 version. I still think GR2 just launched at a bad time and not with the best marketing for an IP that was super niche to most PS console owners. Meanwhile TLG was a victim of deflated hype; that game was supposed to come out for PS3 remember, and it got delayed basically that whole 7th generation. It was never going to live up to expectations with that level of delay, even if it was a decent game in the end.
Demon's Souls Remake....AFAIK that was a joint JS/Bluepoint deal and it did well for literally a PS5 launch title. If SIE think it was disappointing, then maybe their sales outlook is as stupid as Square-Enix's. But in terms of critical reception it was received very well; that shouldn't have been a reason to close Japan Studio IMO, if it was a reason, but SIE have had a good share of short-sighted decisions this gen so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a motivating factor.
PlayStaytion
Member
I don't care what haters says, I remember the ps3 being circle jerked way more and nothing really bad happened to the system.
Last edited:
TheAmazingSpiderMan
Member
We need Knack back!
Pasta la Vista
Member
Man I wish they would remaster Tokyo Jungle
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
More AA scope is needed. I think of the last guardian and shadow of the colossus and see it clearly that these kinds of games are sorely needed.
Glad Ueda is working on a new title to come steal some GOTY awards from these AAAA unreal engine 5 7 year long development hell trans woke retards.
Glad Ueda is working on a new title to come steal some GOTY awards from these AAAA unreal engine 5 7 year long development hell trans woke retards.
Yes, it is very smart to release a new game in a franchise that was among PS first-party most popular games in Japan on PS1, PS2, PSP and PS3 on Nintendo consoles, that sure gives a reassuring message.
Oh well I suppose if you can't beat them, join them.
By the way PlayStation has directly published Lego Horizon on Switch thus I wouldn't be so sure SIE "don't want to manage any studios making AA projects".
Last edited:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Just going by what Shu is saying, he would probably have *the* most insider knowledge.
and Horizon is Hulst's baby, won't be surprised if he was somehow directly responsible for more Horizon being green-lit.
