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[kevboard]

Ok, we need to end this debate. Had anybody actually tried this on the PSX? How did it feel compared to Halo?

it's not great.

it has deadzone settings which is kinda insane for the time it released... CoD didn't have deadzone settings until like Black Ops 3 or something (correct me if I'm wrong), but that's about where the real positives end.

it doesn't play badly, but it also doesn't feel smooth. Turok 3 and 007 The World is not Enough on N64 feel better to play for example.

it's about on par with Quake 1 on N64. maybe slightly worse than Quake in some respects, but better in others. Quake has a massive deadzone and somewhat annoying input lag, which is bad... but it has a better reaction curve and no acceleration whatsoever, wich is good.
so they are trading blows I'd say.

but that issue wasn't tied to the controlscheme, most shooters at the time felt somewhat clunky to play on a controller because there was still lots of experimenting with aim acceleration, auto centering, auto aim, how zooming in should work etc.

Alien also had a very narrow field of view, which makes it feels disorienting at times

 

[Midway-AGNC-]

N64 was THE system for the FPS genre in the 32/64-bits generation and a major reason for why the genre became so popular in the console grounds, formely mostly restricted to the PC ecosystem and some fumbled console attempts in previous systems and even in the PSX/Saturn early years. Everything else afterwards was following what stuff like GoldenEye 007 and Turok started, including Halo and everything else coming for either Sony and Microsoft systems.

 

[Mephisto40]

The first game I played with twin stick analogue controls was Quake 2 on the PS1, I can't remember any other console FPS games having it before then

I think that may have been the first FPS game that used the Dualshock controller

 

[Wolzard]

I consider Halo because if you look at the controller layout in the game, it's the same to this day:

Shoot with the trigger, click on the analog stick to crouch, B melee, Y change weapons, A jump, zoom by clicking on the right analog stick, etc.

 

[DragonNCM]

Quake 3 Arena for Dreamcast was a pure control horror......moving with face buttons & aim with left analog stick.....

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Alien Resurrection - PS1 (2000)

 

[coffinbirth]

For those curious about dual-controller N64 games, here's a list of games that are supported without patching, taken from Reddit.

Robotron 64 - Offered a dual joystick control setup with one joystick used for movement and the other for shooting direction.

GoldenEye 007 - Featured a "2.2" control style where players could use two controllers. One for movement and another for aiming.

Perfect Dark - As a spiritual successor to GoldenEye, it also had a dual-controller scheme for separate aiming and movement.

Sin and Punishment - Allowed players to use two controllers for complex shooting and movement mechanics.

Killer Instinct Gold - While not a traditional dual joystick setup, it allowed players to use two controllers for specific configurations.

Star Wars: Episode I - Racer - Featured a "dual control" mode. Each joystick on separate controllers would control one of the podracer's engines, emulating the movie's podracing controls.

Turok 2: Seeds of Evil and Turok 3: Shadow of Oblivion - Players could use dual joysticks for a modern FPS control scheme, using one joystick for movement and the other for aiming.

Jet Force Gemini - Offered a "Floyd control" mode, where a second player could use a controller to guide a robot companion named Floyd.

Mischief Makers - Players could use two controllers to enhance grip-and-throw mechanics, although it wasn't a typical dual-joystick setup.

South Park - Had the "Goodtimes" control scheme, allowing two controllers for improved first-person shooter controls.

BattleTanx and BattleTanx: Global Assault - Allowed for a dual-controller setup, with each joystick controlling the tank's movement and turret direction independently.

Aero Fighters Assault - Players could use two controllers for a unique flight control experience.

Forsaken 64 - Offered a dual-controller option where one joystick controlled movement and the other handled aiming.

Armorines: Project S.W.A.R.M. - Another shooter by Acclaim (like Turok) that permitted a dual-controller setup for a modern FPS feel.

 

[kevboard]

Alien Resurrection - PS1 (2000)

3 years late

 

[Hashassin]

Such bullshit

The controller was just fine

Yeah, I guess. The absolute minimal standard of fine.

 

[rm082e]

I played Turok a little, and Goldeneye a lot back in the day. I know I played some other shooters on the PS1 and/or N64, but don't remember the details.

I can say for me personally, they all felt janky to one degree or another. FPS on console didn't "click" and feel "great" until Halo: CE. That was the game where I picked it up for just a few minutes at a buddie's house and my jaw fell open because it was so smooth and sharp. I left his apartment, drove straight home to pull some money out of my stash and hit Target before they closed to buy an Xbox and Halo. Other games might have had twin stick controls, but Halo became the textbook example until COD came along and put their spin on it with aim down sights.

 

[RoadHazard]

I don't think I was ever aware that this was a thing back then, I just rolled with the default controls. But I do remember playing Robotron 64 with two controllers, worked very well, just like any modern twin stick shooter.

 

[genesisblock]

it's not great.

it has deadzone settings which is kinda insane for the time it released... CoD didn't have deadzone settings until like Black Ops 3 or something (correct me if I'm wrong), but that's about where the real positives end.

it doesn't play badly, but it also doesn't feel smooth. Turok 3 and 007 The World is not Enough on N64 feel better to play for example.

it's about on par with Quake 1 on N64. maybe slightly worse than Quake in some respects, but better in others. Quake has a massive deadzone and somewhat annoying input lag, which is bad... but it has a better reaction curve and no acceleration whatsoever, wich is good.
so they are trading blows I'd say.

but that issue wasn't tied to the controlscheme, most shooters at the time felt somewhat clunky to play on a controller because there was still lots of experimenting with aim acceleration, auto centering, auto aim, how zooming in should work etc.

Alien also had a very narrow field of view, which makes it feels disorienting at times

Ok, this puts more context to the review. The only good FPS I've played on the PSX was Medaln of Honor and that was with the D-pad aiming. But the stop and shoot made a lot more sense given how Alien compares with the "modern" control scheme. Goes to show that game mechanics really do tie to experience and technology. Thanks for the insight.

 

[nkarafo]

I can say for me personally, they all felt janky to one degree or another. FPS on console didn't "click" and feel "great" until Halo: CE.

Yes but did you actually played Goldeneye using 1.2 solitare? Did you play both games using the left side grip?

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

always liked using the c-buttons to strafe. just felt good.

also turok1's movement feel is a looong lost art.
just walking around feels like it has so much momentum and life.
today's game's 1st person movement feels so rigid and basic by comparison.

plus the n64 controller is one of the greatest of all time.
first console to have an analog stick by default, showing that this is truly a console centered around 3d-movement.
really gave the console some character, and felt like some NASA-grade stuff back in 1996.
also first controller to have a button on the back (and only one that feels like a trigger w/ pistol grip... though dreamcast's weird back/shoulder triggers come a little close).
and still some of the best rumble of any controller ever.

 

[Deerock71]

I'm glad someone else knows this. The dual analog setup worked TOO GOOD in Goldeneye, and broke the game a bit. It was still a blast.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

First time I used a controller was in Halo CE. I kept falling down the ravine.

Took me a few hours to finally get it.

 

[genesisblock]

Funny thing is that I completely missed this game despite being an Alien fan and being knee-deep in my first real job with money coming in at the time. I was buying a ton of games and I never even knew about this until I started seeing this review "meme".

I've always wanted to go back and try it on OG hardware because there are a ton of factors that could've made an early version of dual sticks feel horrible and result in that reviewer's take. We've had 2+ decades of fine tuning so I wonder how this one plays now.

I’m more curious to try it on emulator but I’m too damn lazy to attempt it

 

[kevboard]

I’m more curious to try it on emulator but I’m too damn lazy to attempt it

PS1 emulation is so easy now. just get Duckststion and play it. you can even sign up at retroachievements.org and log in inside of Duckststion to get achievements

there are 2 modes for retroachievements, the normal mode allows you to use save states, but in hardcore mode you have to play it as intended.

 

[genesisblock]

PS1 emulation is so easy now. just get Duckststion and play it. you can even sign up at retroachievements.org and log in inside of Duckststion to get achievements

there are 2 modes for retroachievements, the normal mode allows you to use save states, but in hardcore mode you have to play it as intended.

I already have retroarch so it just a matter of getting the ROM but is Duckstation the only way to get the achievements?

 

[kevboard]

I already have retroarch so it just a matter of getting the ROM but is Duckstation the only way to get the achievements?

no, Retaroarch also has Retroachievement support for a lot of cores. most SNES cores support it too for example,

here's the list:

RetroAchievements - Libretro Docs

This is the official RetroArch documentation for users and developers. Information from sources outside of this website may be dated or incorrect.

docs.libretro.com

you can log in to retroachievements in the Retroarch settings

 

[nkarafo]

If you have RetroArch and Mupen, you can try the Goldeneye/Perfect Dark native dual analog controls, using a single XBOX controller.

First you need to create a game cfg/override file in the config folder, and put these commands:

input_player1_joypad_index = "0"
input_player2_joypad_index = "0"

This will merge two emulated N64 controllers into a single one.

Then you have to go to the Quick menu/Controls and configure both player 1 and 2 controls as if it's a single controller. For instance, the left analog is configured in the player 1 menu and the right analog in player 2. Aiming should be the trigger button in player 1 and shooting should be the trigger in player 2. A+B are also in player 2.

Lastly go to the in-game control options and select the "2.2 Galore" scheme and make sure the "look up/down" section has the "upright" option selected.

Now you can play the original Goldeneye with proper, native, modern dual analog controls using a single controller.

 

[kevboard]

If you have RetroArch and Mupen, you can try the Goldeneye/Perfect Dark native dual analog controls, using a single XBOX controller.

First you need to create a game cfg/override file in the config folder, and put these commands:


This will merge two emulated N64 controllers into a single one.

Then you have to go to the Quick menu/Controls and configure both player 1 and 2 controls as if it's a single controller. For instance, the left analog is configured in the player 1 menu and the right analog in player 2. Aiming should be the trigger button in player 1 and shooting should be the trigger in player 2. A+B are also in player 2.

Lastly go to the in-game control options and select the "2.2 Galore" scheme and make sure the "look up/down" section has the "upright" option selected.

Now you can play the original Goldeneye with proper, native, modern dual analog controls using a single controller.

I just always map the Dpad to the left stick and the stick to the right stick, and use 1.2 might not be as good due to digital movement, but good enough for me

 

[fart town usa]

and Star Wars Episode I: Racer

I did love Turoks' scheme tho, C-buttons for movement, analog stick for looking around

Yea, Turok played great with that control scheme.

 

[nkarafo]

I just always map the Dpad to the left stick and the stick to the right stick, and use 1.2 might not be as good due to digital movement, but good enough for me

Yeah. That's how i used to play for years and it plays great. But it doesn't cost anything to do the dual analog option in GE/PD specifically, other than using that one extra config file so why not.

 

[Madserb2023]

No doubt GoldenEye was the first, though in a very impractical way. Red Faction was actually the first FPS game I played where you used the modern control method on a single controller. It came out several months before Halo and due to its popularity, I think that while it was not the first FPS to use this method, up until that point, it was arguably the best implementation and for many their first experience using dual sticks.

 

[kevboard]

No doubt GoldenEye was the first, though in a very impractical way. Red Faction was actually the first FPS game I played where you used the modern control method on a single controller. It came out several months before Halo and due to its popularity, I think that while it was not the first FPS to use this method, up until that point, it was arguably the best implementation and for many their first experience using dual sticks.

it's not impractical if you are ok with using the Dpad instead of a left stick.

also on PS1 there were several games that had similar controls. Mega Man Legends 2 for example.

 

[Kuramu]

Using the 2 N64 controller dual analog stick setup for FPS was no different from using the 2 Switch controllers for FPS now

 

[rofif]

Modern modern controls were introduced in half life 1.
The first game to use wasd + mouse look by default.
Unreal did not do that. Turok neither.

 

[nkarafo]

Modern modern controls were introduced in half life 1.
The first game to use wasd + mouse look by default.
Unreal did not do that. Turok neither.

Turok introduced this scheme in the console space, which is the premise of the topic. Console games.