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[Fabieter]

Both forespoken and FF16 cost a lot to make and didn’t return on either. Throw in the marvel game / strangers of paradise failures and a declining FF14 for good measure.

But they did have a lot of small games that did well. So I don’t think it’s that dire. It’s just lower than before.

 Sqaure said they want more aaa games so expect less of those smaller games. People think those games are cheap but they aint and people also dont buy them en masses.

Shrinking mobile and mmo revenue is to blame but its to be expected with the mmo part at least. If xbox players are so big on sqaure like they claim than its easy money to buy stocks now and sell them off when the next xiv expansion coming.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I'm not sure of that at all. Everyone has been telling me they're sure of that since that reveal on PS3 but I haven't seen any of evidence of that except FFVII fans in a bubble overhyping themselves. Typically a direct story sequel will sell less than the first game, and then a third will sell less than the 2nd because you have to play the first game to play the others. FFVII did alright, but nothing like what the decade of people saying it is the way to save FF after FFXIII implied. FFXIII sold a lot more than that actually.

I agree. I expect FF7R P2 to sell less simply because FF7R was overhyped as the full blown FF7 remake with everything. In the end even FF7R did not sell amazingly well (we know now that SE was unhappy with legs of FF7R game).

Now we have the second part of the game, meaning that newcomers need the first part to gain deeper understanding of the story (meaning that their primary target are the people who bought the original), then we have the general decline of FF IP (post FF16 for example) and we don't have PS4 userbase any. Plus FF7R was also a time exclusive for EGS on PC.

I've said for a while that sticking your best development team on remakes for a decade is going to go down as one of the worst decisions they've ever made.

I think the problem is that remakes are not coming out fast enough. Like compare the cadence of RE2, RE3, RE4. Add to that RE Village and RE7 being successful. That type of cadence is necessary for FF - and none of those games were platform exclusive.

To recover, SE will have to release FF7R P1 and P2 on the next Switch 2 at least. And PC Day 1.

 

[Unknown?]

I'm not sure of that at all. Everyone has been telling me they're sure of that since that reveal on PS3 but I haven't seen any of evidence of that except FFVII fans in a bubble overhyping themselves. Typically a direct story sequel will sell less than the first game, and then a third will sell less than the 2nd because you have to play the first game to play the others. FFVII did alright, but nothing like what the decade of people saying it is the way to save FF after FFXIII implied. FFXIII sold a lot more than that actually.

I've said for a while that sticking your best development team on remakes for a decade is going to go down as one of the worst decisions they've ever made. We could have FFXVII right now with exciting new characters and a new world, but instead we get more Cloud and looking backwards.

XIII-2 and Lightning returns tanked though and won't sell near as much as Remake or Rebirth.

 

[Auto_aim1]

The brand value is gone tbh. I think it's better if they become a part of Sony.

 

[Three]

Looking forward to regulators forcing Sony to keep all SE games multiplatform going forward as a purchase condition

Good luck trying to convince regulators that MS/xbox rely on any SE game for even 0.1% of their revenue. Not that I condone that consolidation but that's not happening.

 

[Fabieter]

I agree. I expect FF7R P2 to sell less simply because FF7R was overhyped as the full blown FF7 remake with everything. In the end even FF7R did not sell amazingly well (we know now that SE was unhappy with legs of FF7R game).

Now we have the second part of the game, meaning that newcomers need the first part to gain deeper understanding of the story (meaning that their primary target are the people who bought the original), then we have the general decline of FF IP (post FF16 for example) and we don't have PS4 userbase any. Plus FF7R was also a time exclusive for EGS on PC.


I think the problem is that remakes are not coming out fast enough. Like compare the cadence of RE2, RE3, RE4. Add to that RE Village and RE7 being successful. That type of cadence is necessary for FF - and none of those games were platform exclusive.

To recover, SE will have to release FF7R P1 and P2 on the next Switch 2 at least. And PC Day 1.

Resident evil games are scripted 7 hour games on average. That's not possible with big rpgs nowadays.

To recover sqaure will scrap most of its smaller games and call it a day and financially it will be the right decision.

 

[Larivel]

-22% MMO and -18% mobile revenue is their biggest problem, idk why there is no mention of that in the article.

 

[BennyBlanco]

The brand value is gone tbh. I think it's better if they become a part of Sony.

That would be a dumb move for Sony. Even if they bought them for pennies on the dollar. They are a big company with a lot of employees and they’re bleeding money. Sony picking and choosing games to moneyhat is way safer even if they don’t all pan out.

 

[Mister Wolf]

They foolishly took Sony's money.

 

[Chukhopops]

-22% MMO and -18% mobile revenue is their biggest problem, idk why there is no mention of that in the article.

Yeah I don’t think this is about FFXVI, it may actually be one of the only well-performing games in their portfolio right now.

I really disliked it before release, now that I play it it’s kinda better than I expected but it has many, many issues.

If they want to keep making action games they should give the next mainline game to the Stranger of Paradise guys.

 

[Unknown?]

They foolishly took Sony's money.

Read two posts above you for the real reason.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

That's the aftermath of those 7 Forspoken and 33 FF16 copies they could have sold on Xbox.

Yup... all twelve of em.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

gAMerS dOn’T LiKE turN bAsED!

Don’t look at Divinity original sin 2 or Baldur’s Gate 3 scores / success.

Casual gamers have poisoned SE’s mind. They tried to reach mass appeal like a call of duty.

there’s a huge difference between Divinity/BG3 style combat and “good guys stand on one side, bad guys stand on the other side, and you take turns hitting each other” Final Fantasy turn based combat.

If they wanted to try BG3 style for FF XVII I’d be all for it. But that is nothing like the kind of turn based battle system the old school purists are yearning for.

 

[Fabieter]

That would be a dumb move for Sony. Even if they bought them for pennies on the dollar. They are a big company with a lot of employees and they’re bleeding money. Sony picking and choosing games to moneyhat is way safer even if they don’t all pan out.

Other parts of sony also have an interest in sqaure. They have a great synergy and image ms buying sqaure. Sony need so secure ips if they want to stay in the game.

 

[Ainem Enamas]

One massive company in the fate.

 

[Three]

I'm not sure of that at all. Everyone has been telling me they're sure of that since that reveal on PS3 but I haven't seen any of evidence of that except FFVII fans in a bubble overhyping themselves. Typically a direct story sequel will sell less than the first game, and then a third will sell less than the 2nd because you have to play the first game to play the others. FFVII did alright, but nothing like what the decade of people saying it is the way to save FF after FFXIII implied. FFXIII sold a lot more than that actually.

You said this in another thread but it doesn't work like this as I said in that thread. FFVII Remake was released on PS+ so it can be played by many more people than its sales. HFW outsold HZD possibly for the same reason.

 

[Davevil]

Maybe next time don't make FF 15 and 16 two smash button's shit

 

[Fabieter]

You said this in another thread but it doesn't work like this as I said in that thread. FFVII Remake was released on PS+ so it can be played by many more people than its sales. HFW outsold HZD possibly for the same reason.

Witcher 3 probably sold 5 times as much as witcher 2 tho.

 

[Punished Miku]

Yup... all twelve of em.

If you want to actually be serious for a sec, Xbox seems to have been at about 20% of sales on FFXIII and FFXV. No one is claiming they are matching PS sales, but +20% is not nothing. And it also increases word of mouth and overall marketing footprint. Same can be said for PC sales which probably will be less than PS sales also, but still help on sales and marketing / word of mouth.

Lots of other companies are multiplatform, like Capcom and From Software. But SQEX can do whatever they want. It's clearly working out well for them.

 

[Hudo]

Time to bring back Sakaguchi and let him repair that mess of a company.

I bet that one of the first things he'd do is to get Matsuno back and make him a director for real.

 

[Physiognomonics]

They need to stop doing those shallow action games. I thought with FF15 they had some great stuff and a great engine. They should have used FF15 as a basis, improve it from players critics and use that for an epic FF16 adventure. And please stop spending all the budget on those useless cutscenes. Cutscenes never improved sales of a games.

Also maybe trying to take inspiration from others like Nintendo or From Software games? Final fantasy should be an adventure, not a movie.

 

[cireza]

Final Fantasy Am Cry not being what fans expected from a mainline Final Fantasy game, what a surprise.

Time to take a look back and understand the key elements of Final Fantasy and why people enjoy the games.

 

[adamsapple]

Following the disappointing performance of [.....] and Forspoken, the debut game from Square Enix’s Luminous Productions studio, which launched to “lacklustre” sales, according to the company.

So let me get this straight .. it's still leaving lasting tremors even after killing its developer.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm a huge Square Enix fan who no longer buys Square Enix products.

They've fallen behind technically and creatively.

They should be out there buying Sabotage Studio for pennies on the dollar.

You see the difference between them and Larian who only has 450 employees.

With FF16 they alienated and continued to alienate fans of turn based RPGs, you know what Final Fantasy is known for... looking to appeal to a larger western audience competing more with games like The Witcher and God of War. That's not you Square Enix.

Then you have them commit resources to lazy remakes/remasters, when full blown remakes would bring people out in droves.

Raise your hand if you bought the lazy Chrono Cross remaster? I know I didn't. They need a massive overhaul of management, influx in talent, and shift in focus/vision.

FF7R performed pretty well, but it was a technical disaster and you could tell how lazy they were across the board with cheap side missions out of an ubisoft game. Go find these kids or go find these rats. It was completely uninspired.

They've got a similar problem with Microsoft in terms of massive tech debt, which is why they scrapped Luminous engine.

Sony would be better off buying FromSoftware than Square Enix at this point.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Being bought by Sony would be a surefire way to see their smaller games - ie, currently their best - go the way of the dodo very quickly.
And they seem to have come themselves to the conclusion that focusing on AAA only is the way to go, so they don’t need to be salvaged by Sony. They’ll just keep squandering money on big cinematic projects that will never meet sales expectations. Meanwhile very good games like Octopath Traveler will go extinct.

 

[marjo]

I see it took 5 posts for this thread to descend to the inevitable console warring. You guys are slipping.

 

[Unknown?]

If you want to actually be serious for a sec, Xbox seems to have been at about 20% of sales on FFXIII and FFXV. No one is claiming they are matching PS sales, but +20% is not nothing. And it also increases word of mouth and overall marketing footprint. Same can be said for PC sales which probably will be less than PS sales also, but still help on sales and marketing / word of mouth.

Lots of other companies are multiplatform, like Capcom and From Software. But SQEX can do whatever they want. It's clearly working out well for them.

As already pointed out, this has nothing to do with FF.

 

[Auto_aim1]

That would be a dumb move for Sony. Even if they bought them for pennies on the dollar. They are a big company with a lot of employees and they’re bleeding money. Sony picking and choosing games to moneyhat is way safer even if they don’t all pan out.

I think they need a studio who can pump out RPGs to counter Bethesda. Quality will go up too with tech support from other Sony studios. SE has a crazy amount of IPs and I think under Sony they will sell really well.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Resident evil games are scripted 7 hour games on average. That's not possible with big rpgs nowadays.

Then SE shouldn't gone after FF7R partial releases and just released a single big game at once, while developing something else.

They had the winning formula with FF15 - they just needed a polished, complete, open world multiplatform release of the next FF and they would be fine. But they went after FF7R P1, P2, P3 + FF16...

 

[Punished Miku]

Being bought by Sony would be a surefire way to see their smaller games - ie, currently their best - go the way of the dodo very quickly.
And they seem to have come themselves to the conclusion that focusing on AAA only is the way to go, so they don’t need to be salvaged by Sony. They’ll just keep squandering money on big cinematic projects that will never meet sales expectations. Meanwhile very good games like Octopath Traveler will go extinct.

Pretty much. They put out a ton of great games that I got, but a lot of people skipped. Stranger in Paradise, Triangle Strategy, Octopath Traveler 2, Star Ocean, Live A Live, Dungeon Encounters, and on and on.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Looking forward to regulators forcing Sony to keep all SE games multiplatform going forward as a purchase condition

You realize that for regulators to force that, MS would have to prove that the revenue of Square games is very important for them?

... and we all know that such statement would be a big fat lie.

 

[Fabieter]

They need to stop doing those shallow action games. I thought with FF15 they had some great stuff and a great engine. They should have used FF15 as a basis, improve it from players critics and use that for an epic FF16 adventure. And please stop spending all the budget on those useless cutscenes. Cutscenes never improved sales of a games.

Also maybe trying to take inspiration from others like Nintendo or From Software games? Final fantasy should be an adventure, not a movie.

I bought and played every single final fantasy game including 11 and 14. A ff game without story focus will be my first skip ever. People have no idea what final fantasy is about.

 

[Hudo]

As long as Horii keeps DQ multiplatform like he heavily hinted at after DQ11, they can buy Square for all I care ( even it it's a bad fit since they're already bleeding money and making them platform exclusive is cutting their revenue stream even further)

 

[Exede]

I liked FF 16, i dont get the bad comments about it

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Final Fantasy Am Cry not being what fans expected from a mainline Final Fantasy game, what a surprise.

Time to take a look back and understand the key elements of Final Fantasy and why people enjoy the games.

It's not even that hard. Someone whispered in their ear that turn based was no longer viable, while they ignored games like Baldur's Gate, Persona, and Pokemon...

They still make turn based games and they’re way better than their AAA flops

60 dollars for games like this are pretty rich... It seems like Square Enix doesn't have any awareness to them.

Time to bring back Sakaguchi and let him repair that mess of a company.

I bet that one of the first things he'd do is to get Matsuno back and make him a director for real.

I don't know that bringing back people who have also become lackluster is the answer. But the company drove a lot of talent out and never really created a sufficient talent pipeline. I think the company is just lost at this point.

Final Fantasy Am Cry not being what fans expected from a mainline Final Fantasy game, what a surprise.

Time to take a look back and understand the key elements of Final Fantasy and why people enjoy the games.

It's not even that hard. Someone whispered in their ear that turn based was no longer viable, while they ignored games like Baldur's Gate, Persona, and Pokemon...

 

[swaffles23]

How is an 87 on metacritic "mixed reviews"?

 

[Hudo]

People have no idea what final fantasy is about.

To be fair, Square Enix doesn't seem to have no idea either, judging by FF15 and FF16.

 

[Fabieter]

Pretty much. They put out a ton of great games that I got, but a lot of people skipped. Stranger in Paradise, Triangle Strategy, Octopath Traveler 2, Star Ocean, Live A Live, Dungeon Encounters, and on and on.

This is the crux. Games like ot2, triangle strat or live a live is actually what people want from them and we had devs telling us that those pixel art is insanly expensive but people never put their money where their mouth is.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I hope Nintendo buys Square just to piss you people off.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The most overrated published.

 

[adamsapple]

They still make turn based games and they’re way better than their AAA flops

These are two great games, but as others have echoed above, they should have launched at lower price. $60 is too much.

Look at Sea of Stars, for example. Launched at $34.99 and has received great success despite also being on two sub services.

 

[Punished Miku]

This is the crux. Games like ot2, triangle strat or live a live is actually what people want from them and we had devs telling us that those pixel art is insanly expensive but people never put their money where their mouth is.

Exactly. I love these games, but I'm not claiming that a pixel art turn based FF will save the company. People don't buy it.

 

[Hudo]

I don't know that bringing back people who have also become lackluster is the answer. But the company drove a lot of talent out and never really created a sufficient talent pipeline. I think the company is just lost at this point.

Are you suggesting that Matsuno sucks? Him and Itou worked on the best games the company has put out.

 

[Tams]

A new Sleeping Dogs and a new Mini Ninjas please.

 

[Punished Miku]

These are two great games, but as others have echoed above, they should have launched at lower price. $60 is too much.

Look at Sea of Stars, for example. Launched at $34.99 and has received great success despite also being on two sub services.

That studio has 22 people in it. 250k copies wouldn't be a great success for SQEX or pay for the staff that made it.

 

[Hudo]

I hope Nintendo buys Square just to piss you people off.

I think they would only try to make a deal with Armor Project for Dragon Quest.

 

[Horseganador]

Another fake invented by Bloomberg's Mochizuki.

 

[Fabieter]

To be fair, Square Enix doesn't seem to have no idea either, judging by FF15 and FF16.

The ff father itself said he likes xvi and its what final fantasy is about. Its funny that "fans" know it better than the guy who was responsible for the first 10 games.

 

[AJUMP23]

Finally some one told square that they are not living up to their expectations.

 

[Fabieter]

A new Sleeping Dogs and a new Mini Ninjas please.

Sleeping dogs is another game people didn't buy and that lost sqaure enix also alot of money.