• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Starfield is one of the worst written RPGs of all time

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Good writing in an RPG means different things to different people. You might appreciate meaningful choices. You might appreciate deep conversations with realistic characters. You might appreciate an epic adventure full of memorable twists and turns. You might appreciate years spent on developing the worldbuilding for an interesting universe full of diverse characters, races, species, backgrounds, and ideas.

Well, Starfield fails at RPG writing on every level. This doesn’t mean it’s a worthless failure of a game overall. The core mechanics of exploring, shooting, and looting can hold your attention, just as they may have in Bethesda’s previous open world RPGs. But at every turn the writing slaps you in the face.

Let’s start with the companions. Dear god. All of them are Lawful Good wet blankets who criticize you every roughly 15 seconds. Inventory over the minuscule weight limit? “Have you considered NOT picking up everything you can find?” every time you pick up an item. Stealing something, including from villains? “Wow, I didn’t realize I was hanging out with a CRIMINAL” every time you pick up an item. Get into a fight that you could have conceivably avoided via dialogue options? They will sometimes leave your party and brand you irredeemable, even if the only way to avoid the enemies attacking you was through a persuasion check that you failed, leaving you with no choice but to defend yourself. You’ll still be met with the companion leaving your party and refusing to talk to you. Unless every step you take is within their exacting moral expectations you will be reprimanded or dumped.

There are also story beats with bizarre turns. During one of the main faction quests, you are given one of your few pseudo-consequential player choices. Basically, you can choose a risky scientific option that unleashes genetically engineered microbes onto humanity to solve the problem, or a less risky naturalistic option where you breed an animal that will take care of the problem. If you choose the sensible naturalistic option with what is essentially a guaranteed good outcome based on the evidence presented to you, your companions will condemn you as a mouth-breathing moron. If you choose the risky scientific option that explicitly has a chance of wiping out humanity by mutating in unknown ways, your companions will laud you for “Trusting the Science" (actual quote), in what is a bizarre, warped take on recent events political messaging, considering how risky the in-game choice is.

Not only that, but if you have a companion in your party, good luck picking any of the rare Han Solo style dialogue options. In a mission where Andreja is your forced companion, you dock with a ship with the intention of stealing an item from the owner. This a morally gray mission where you’re expected to con the owner, burglarize him, or kill him in order to retrieve the item. When you enter the ship, you’re met with one of the owner’s employees, and he asks you why you’re there. You only have two dialogue options: one, be an imbecile and tell him exactly why you’re there, or two, you can reply facetiously that you heard there was a big party on the ship and you’re here to party. If you say the latter, Andreja, who is literally there to help you steal the item by any means necessary, will respond by Disliking your comment and interjecting flatly that she “has no interest in partying.”

It's a problem endemic to all the characters in Starfield. It was marketed as a Han Solo simulator, but you are constantly badgered and browbeaten by catty, humorless women for anything you do. I won’t dwell too much on the ideological choices made to satisfy the current year climate but suffice to say that roughly 90% of the leaders in Starfield are women. And they are one-dimensional, deeply unlikeable charisma black holes who will talk to you with utter contempt most of the time. Of the remaining 10%, most of the men are presented as incompetent or evil. It’s a galaxy ruled by Karens. And the Karens are also your party members and love interests. I have never experienced a more unlikeable cast of characters in an RPG.

Let’s also consider the dreaded romance options. The first romanceable companion you encounter is Sarah. Sarah is a middle-aged ex-military leader who runs the organization you join. She’s quick to criticize you and expects you to do the conventional and lawful thing at all times. If you romance her, by choosing options like Trusting the Science and by praising her awkwardly at every opportunity in a way that would be creepy and weird to any actual human being, she will eventually begin to trust you and open up. Now, by opening up I mean she will reveal herself to be a giant ball of insecure, wallowing baggage that you are expected to comfort with dialogue options that reduce her to the emotional maturity of a small child. “Wow, you’re so strong, Sarah! Good job staving off that nervous breakdown over nothing, Sarah!” Then, inexplicably, you will end these conversations about her baggage with a “Flirt” option if you want to pursue her romantically. She will rebuff your advances awkwardly and end the conversation every time. Do this on around a dozen separate occasions, with no actual romance or flirtation between you two, only rejections at the end of your impromptu therapy sessions, and she will trust you enough to take you on her loyalty mission, which is literally to confront her emotional baggage. Complete that and she will decide that she can get involved with you romantically. Without any intimate moments, explicitly or implicitly, she will then decide that she has fallen in love with you and want to get married. Handle her baggage for her --> let’s get married. That’s how it works for humans, right? Right?

I’m genuinely horrified by the writing in this game, and I pity the people who conjured up these character interactions. They must live some of the dullest and most dysfunctional lives imaginable.

Starfield displays time and time again, without fail, that it fundamentally lacks understanding of the human condition. You land on worlds with the premise of a dystopian cyberpunk society where hard drugs are legal and everything is available for a price. When you arrive, though, all you’ll find is some tepid fully clothed dancing at a bland nightclub and a few people talking about how cu-raaazy everything is. It’s a game unwilling to explore humanity’s faults and genuine human drama on any level. At the futuristic fashionista clothing stores your only options are literally unisex tarps. Everyone is of varied ethnicity but there is no ethnic culture whatsoever. Women are purely masculine, leaving no one left to be feminine. This is not a demand for T&A by any means. In the real world, men and women don’t wear tarps and talk in monotone at a safe distance, defined purely by their profession. Life is messy and dramatic, desires and egos clash, stars rise and fall, people love and lust and hate and trust and betray. But not in Starfield, a corporate-sanitized ideological bog too afraid to include one iota of humanity in its storytelling.

RPGs are doing so much more elsewhere, from Baldur's Gate 3 to Cyberpunk 2077, but even looking back at Bethesda's own games, this one is a step backwards. The Elder Scrolls games incorporate different ethnic backgrounds and intense religious beliefs, ugly racial prejudice and morally gray deities. Starfield reeks of design by committee resulting in a product too afraid to take any storytelling risks. Nothing can ever be well-written when it is this extraordinarily conformist and risk-averse, particularly when the expectations for political correctness are so narrow in 2023.

You can do better.
 

Zuzu

Member
The poor writing, boring characters and bad pacing of the main quest are major reasons why I’ve quit playing it after about 50hrs. It’s a very dull and uninteresting place to be from a character and story perspective. I have other problems with it but these ones are some of the major ones.

I have been playing through Mass Effect 2 for the first time and so far the gulf in writing quality and characters is huge between the two games.
 
Last edited:

Senua

Gold Member
2yPEq2e.jpg
 
Yeah it makes it feel utterly lifeless and emotionless.

You seemed to hone in on the companions which is fair. I’d say some of the actual stories are well written but the delivery let’s it down.

You also left out that it’s one of the worst acted RPGs. Some actors show up and do their best with this “”script”” others completely phone it in as a goofy stupid sci fi game and don’t even try leading to a completely utterly inept storytelling experience at times
 
Reconsider your life choices.
That was fast. I have not played the game yet so I can't really comment on your opinion. Shame that Starfield was not as good as we all wanted it to be. I just read this on Reddit that try to defend the game, but not on the writing. If true, it could have changed the reception of this game a little.
Ok but how exactly is this Phil Spencer's fault? I've been led to believe everything bad is directly because of him.
My reddit link could be taken that way if you really want to?
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Noticed this already from the demo.

When I finished the demo I was like ”aight yeah so this is gonna be all about the combat and fishing”
 

Duchess

Member
Honest question here:

How are people now feeling about Bethesda's ability to deliver Elder Scrolls 6?

Will it be a radical departure / re-invention, or will it simply be a prettier version of Skyrim? (maybe it will feature flying mounts..?)
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
RPGs are doing so much more elsewhere, from Baldur's Gate 3 to Cyberpunk 2077, but even looking back at Bethesda's own games, this one is a step backwards. The Elder Scrolls games incorporate different ethnic backgrounds and intense religious beliefs, ugly racial prejudice and morally gray deities. Starfield reeks of design by committee resulting in a product too afraid to take any storytelling risks. Nothing can ever be well-written when it is this extraordinarily conformist and risk-averse, particularly when the expectations for political correctness are so narrow in 2023.

You can do better.
Two things:

1. How is this game better than Outer Worlds?
2. Man, Morrowind hits you hard. They managed to put two incredible plot devices in a single game:
- It is never proven if you are the Nerevar reincarnated, even you do not know that
- You never know who is telling the truth: the Tribunal or Dagoth-Ur
 
Starfield’s writing is rather bland but that is true of every Bethesda game I’ve played since Oblivion. It makes the characters rather forgettable in my opinion.

What irks me the most about their games though and what takes me completely out of the experience is the fact that every NPC you pass feels the need to speak to you, which can be annoying if you start a conversation with another and then end up with overlapping dialogue. It’s just so videogame-y and unrealistic. I haven’t checked but maybe there is a mod that turns off the constant NPC chatter to you as you walk near them and just leaves the dialogue between other NPCs that you can eavesdrop in on?
 
Last edited:

Tomeru

Member
I wager the sheer scale of truth and facts displayed here will make for a short lived topic.

Although I really want to see someone try and spin this into nothingness.
 
Last edited:

acm2000

Member
"oh god another Starfield thre... Oh evilore... More threads please!"

I'm loving the game but yeah the writing isn't the best, I tend to ignore the companions for the most part however and anyone who romances Sarah gets what they deserved 😂 fucking mood swing bipolar craziness just like... A real wife... Hmm

In conclusion, Sarah is too realistic.
 

Ammogeddon

Member
I ended up ditching companions because it felt like they were disproportionately disliking my choices. Who wants to hang out with a whinging, judgy twat all the time?

I’m still enjoying it but yeah, it’s a pretty sanitised and safe game, made to be as inoffensive as possible.
 
I assure you I was being facetious and just poking fun at the near constant stream of Phil threads lately 😂
I know, but another poster got banned so I played it safe. The phil threads are funny and at least unlike the Xbox is doomed threads of the last few months they are waranted.
Honest question here:

How are people now feeling about Bethesda's ability to deliver Elder Scrolls 6?

Will it be a radical departure / re-invention, or will it simply be a prettier version of Skyrim? (maybe it will feature flying mounts..?)
Starfield indoors are pretty, so this is a good omen for Elder Scrolls 6. The engine have been modernized, so it can only get better from there. No procedural generation this time, so the exploration will be more in line with Skyrim. End of the generation, or even next gen, so almost certain that all of Xbox tech will be used. I think that it will be a prettier Skyrim, with a twist to be determined.
I wager the shear scale of truth and facts displayed here will make for a short lived topic.

Although I really want to see someone try and spin this into nothingness.
If I had a Chat gtp account I would have tried to see what it could have said to do so, could be fun. But yes hard to talk about it when saying yes great post is almost all we can do. Maybe some Starfield players found good side quests and will share them?
 

chlorate

Member
Two things:

1. How is this game better than Outer Worlds?
2. Man, Morrowind hits you hard. They managed to put two incredible plot devices in a single game:
- It is never proven if you are the Nerevar reincarnated, even you do not know that
- You never know who is telling the truth: the Tribunal or Dagoth-Ur
Of course point 1 is proven, Azura appears before you and tells you that you are, and you can wear the Moon-and-Star ring that allegedly kills anyone that is not Nerevar.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
The poor writing, boring characters and bad pacing of the main quest are major reasons why I’ve quit playing it after about 50hrs. It’s a very dull and uninteresting place to be from a character and story perspective. I have other problems with it but these ones are some of the major ones.

I have been playing through Mass Effect 2 for the first time and so far the gulf in writing quality and characters is huge between the two games.
Mass Effect 2 is in another universe of writing. Great and memorable party members, compelling stakes, many difficult morally gray choices to make with consequential outcomes, great worldbuilding that fleshes out the different factions, worlds, conflicts. If only we still had pre-castration Bioware around.

Two things:

1. How is this game better than Outer Worlds?
2. Man, Morrowind hits you hard. They managed to put two incredible plot devices in a single game:
- It is never proven if you are the Nerevar reincarnated, even you do not know that
- You never know who is telling the truth: the Tribunal or Dagoth-Ur
The Outer Worlds suffers from a lot of the same issues with its ideological slant undermining the storytelling and character writing. Helping an asexual mechanic woman with her personal "romance" problems is not my idea of escapist sci-fi adventure. But the writing is more complex than anything on offer in Starfield, and the game had an emphasis on choice and consequence. Starfield mainly benefits from being much grander in scope, with lots of cities to wander around and major faction questlines bouncing you around the galaxy.

Morrowind remains something special.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
Of course point 1 is proven, Azura appears before you and tells you that you are, and you can wear the Moon-and-Star ring that allegedly kills anyone that is not Nerevar.
Yes, but that is only at the very end. All the way to final confrontation you do not know for sure.
 
It's firmly in "so bad it's good territory".

Not from US so not always do I see political angle in games. But I do feel Bethesda went overboard with this.

When I reached Akila city, everyone was like, Shaw gang members, they are so badass, if you go near them you are done for.

Then during a mission in their territory I heard their leader was a Ms Shaw. I expected her to be like Liberty Buchanan from Wasteland 3. Totally justifies leading Marauders and bandits.

But when I met her, she was like a scrawny teenager who would fall by herself and break a couple of ribs. I laughed out so hard, unbelievable.
 

GooseMan69

Member
Remember Fallout 3 when you could say all kinds of wacky and edgy shit to people? Their games lost their personality starting with Fallout 4. I wanna talk shit but Bethesda have watered their dialogue down to the point where the worst thing you can say to somebody is a sarcastic quip, while still agreeing to whatever bullshit task they give you. It’s like they have boardroom executives standing behind them while they write the dialogue.
 
Last edited:

Fess

Member
I like some of the story-telling but they often stumble on the finish line. Like the 200 year old colony ship with the same internals and computer screens and operative systems and loot and people with the same (boring) looks and clothes like 200 years later. Could’ve been the coolest questline yet, on paper that story was superb. If they made everything look and feel as expected it would’ve been awesome. But they didn’t.

NG+ was a disappointment as well for similar reasons. No spoilers but the setup made me excited and the execution made me start over fresh instead.

I’ve had no interest in romancing, which is a first for a RPG. It’s more exciting to meet my coworkers irl and I work in a factory, can’t believe the boring character designs and complete lack of sex appeal. I could go on a lot about this but fear I’ll get banned if I talk freely since I’m not schooled on any modern audience thinking. I like Andreja’s face though but good to know I don’t have to waste my time evolving things further, she can keep on carry my loot instead.

Still enjoy the gameplay loop like few other games lately, so far it’s top 3 GOTY, warts and all.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member



I know that it is an extended talk, but it gives some great insight at Emil Pagliarulo's writing process and as long as he is the lead writer for BGS games nothing will change about them.

Losing brain cells by the second listening to this talk. Christ, the absolute worst mindset to have for someone in charge of writing in an RPG project.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
It's firmly in "so bad it's good territory".

Not from US so not always do I see political angle in games. But I do feel Bethesda went overboard with this.

When I reached Akila city, everyone was like, Shaw gang members, they are so badass, if you go near them you are done for.

Then during a mission in their territory I heard their leader was a Ms Shaw. I expected her to be like Liberty Buchanan from Wasteland 3. Totally justifies leading Marauders and bandits.

But when I met her, she was like a scrawny teenager who would fall by herself and break a couple of ribs. I laughed out so hard, unbelievable.
I laughed out loud when I met her. Her, the head of a band of murderous outlaws living in the wilderness. Incredible.

I’ve had no interest in romancing, which is a first for a RPG. It’s more exciting to meet my coworkers irl and I work in a factory, can’t believe the boring character designs and complete lack of sex appeal. I could go on a lot about this but fear I’ll get banned if I talk freely since I’m not schooled on any modern audience thinking. I like Andreja’s face though but good to know I don’t have to waste my time evolving things further, she can keep on carry my loot instead.

I don't think you'd get banned, dude!
 
Sounds like a ham solo experience for me. They couldn’t stand the guy. But they also love him. Hell I’m romantic with both of them. Sarah and andreja. I take turns which one I sleep every time. It was andj first, then Sarah, andj got piss. Sweet talked her. Now I’m with both. Now of course I hadn’t marry either one of them. I assume I lose the other if I did. But for now, they both flirt with me and both come to bed with me. Win win there. 🤣
 
Top Bottom