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[Pancake Mix]

About the political bent this article has been given in this thread....if you want to change something, don't start by spitting in people's faces.

Not saying everyone is, but some of us could stand to be a bit less callous.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

I don't necessarily disagree. But the mistake many in the cities are making is its a problem of what's happening to OTHER people. It's just rural people right? Cities are safe.

But in reality the beast of automation is coming quickly and cities won't be safe from it either. If we are smart we look at rural economies as ground zero right now and learn as much as we can with how to help huge amounts of displaced people losing jobs. Because a whole hell of a lot more on the way over the next few decades.

I don't necessarily agree that automation will cause wide-scale economic destruction. Automation did cause displacement in Rural America in this case, but the fact that the country as a whole in a state of full employment is a testament to the fact that where jobs were destroyed, they were created elsewhere. (I do agree wealth inequality is a huge issue, but I don't think we should be going around solving that in indirect ways like subsidizing rural living).

Rural America provides the food and energy cities need to sustain themselves. The people who work to provide these necessities are hardly engaging in inefficient living. Hell, our electrical grid needs to be completely remade to mitigate the negative effects of climate change. That effort would be 100 percent all about efficiency and it needs to be done as soon as possible.

There will always be food and energy, save some catastrophe. I'm not saying rural areas will go away completely, they'll just be smaller in population. We're mostly talking about post-industrial towns though, rather than farmers, aren't we?

 

[crackhead_bob]

I believe this as a person living in rural Ohio. In the last 3 1/2 years I've had two people I was close to and two acquaintances commit suicide. I also recently heard about a person that I worked with years ago committing suicide followed by the suicide of that person's father.

I need to get out of here.

For anyone seriously looking to uproot themselves and to move to a more prosperous area, what's usually a good baseline amount of money should you have to your name before you decide to make that move? I've always wondered if it's a matter of not having the money, or having the money, but not certain if there should be more money to be on the safe side. To me, $30 grand sounds like a good base to cover your move to your new destination, finding an apartment, and having a small nest egg left over while you're starting your new job. And yet, I can't help but feel that it wouldn't be enough.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Born and raised in rural Georgia, grandson of tobacco sharecropers. I think i turned out alright. Don't vote against myself interests.

Respect.

I just don't know if others will.



If I try to think more deeply about it; maybe my own world view of people is to pessimistic. How much control do people have to go against their programming? I guess that's the crux of many of these discussions.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

For anyone seriously looking to uproot themselves and to move to a more prosperous area, what's usually a good baseline amount of money should you have to your name before you decide to make that move? I've always wondered if it's a matter of not having the money, or having the money, but not certain if there should be more money to be on the safe side. To me, $30 grand sounds like a good base to cover your move to your new destination, finding an apartment, and having a small nest egg left over while you're starting your new job. And yet, I can't help but feel that it wouldn't be enough.

That their is a big problem. Their no bloody way for us to save up 30 grand to do something like that. For example my family makes around 13-14 K and all things considered we are not too bad off but building up savings is nearly impossible for many people when their definition of dinner is a singular sandwich like the case with my family.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I mean I don't know the exact makeup of the congresses in the 1980s but wouldn't this also include the existence of liberal Republicans of the time then as a sort of counterweight here? Are you going to act like there was no ideological shift among Democrats then even outside of the south? I mean taking even a quick look at Wikipedia shows that the Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 passed the House 272-91, more Republicans voted against it than did Democrats.

I mean Jimmy Carter started to repeal Glass-Steagal in 1980!

edit: lol I use the phrase "I mean" with an exclamation at the end way too much, I should try and diversify my language some here.

Up until 1994, it was the "Conservative Coalition" that had substantial influence on policy that was being introduced, so saying things like "Reagan and Bush 41 didn't have a GOP House!" isn't useful. They had a conservative House - that's what matters. It is why looking solely at things like party ID for much of the 20th century is not useful. (And there weren't nearly as many liberal Republicans as conservative Democrats, ever.) It's just not as simple as "more Democrats than Republicans did X."

That being said, I want to help people living in rural areas, but we can only do as much as they allow us to do (given their disproportionate representation in the federal government).

 

[Lucky Seven]

WTF at some of the posts ITT

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Up until 1994, it was the "Conservative Coalition" that had substantial influence on policy that was being introduced, so saying things like "Reagan and Bush 41 didn't have a GOP House!" isn't useful. They had a conservative House - that's what matters. It is why looking solely at things like party ID for much of the 20th century is not useful. (And there weren't nearly as many liberal Republicans as conservative Democrats, ever.) It's just not as simple as "more Democrats than Republicans did X."

That being said, I want to help people living in rural areas, but we can only do as much as they allow us to do (given their disproportionate representation in the federal government).

My greater point is that just saying "well if you voted Democratic you'd be better off" is only partially true, no one made Carter or Clinton sign off on repealing Glass-Steagall, they just did it because they were ideologically different from the Democrats who'd come before them. In some ways, much much better (afaik there's very few elected Democrats who would support segregation) but in some ways much worse. This is why talking about the ways Democrats actually have failed these areas is important! Of course Republicans suck, but "sometimes we suck less" is not a particularly compelling message, and even if we don't win over all of these people we can help the margins. The narrative that these people only abandoned the Democrats isn't completely true, Democrats have often pursued policies that hurt these people.

Even looking at some of the other deregulatory stuff a lot of the conservative Democrats are actually likely to oppose them. The Telecommunications Act of '96 was passed 84-16 and aside from a couple of the usual lefties (Feingold and Wellstone) the opposition comes from the rural conservative Democrats like Dorgan, Pryor, Bumpers (AR), and so on. Plus Lieberman, which seems out of character for him.

 

[UraMallas]

For anyone seriously looking to uproot themselves and to move to a more prosperous area, what's usually a good baseline amount of money should you have to your name before you decide to make that move? I've always wondered if it's a matter of not having the money, or having the money, but not certain if there should be more money to be on the safe side. To me, $30 grand sounds like a good base to cover your move to your new destination, finding an apartment, and having a small nest egg left over while you're starting your new job. And yet, I can't help but feel that it wouldn't be enough.

Maybe just for some perspective, you're asking a lot at $30k. I would imagine it would be slightly easier for a single person to save that much up but if you have a family, and are hypothetically on government subsidies, that's a really tough ask. I'm talking about uneducated families with two incomes; one maybe a minimum wage service level job at Walmart and one a server making less than minimum wage plus tips, that's a typical scenario where I originally come from, maybe 2 extra mouths to feed. These people's big trip of the year is to go to the amusement park in the 'big city' of Des Moines and also get all the school clothes shopping done the same day so they don't have to spend the money on gas for a second trip to a city 50 miles away because it's outside their budget (or, more commonly their car won't make it.) Not sure how that group can save up $30k and not have more immediate things to spend it on then moving to said big city, where the minimum wage is the same and they're not skilled enough to have a better job lined up.

 

[Socivol]

Losing jobs, getting addicted to drugs, and taking your life with the gun you bought to defend yourself from nefarious brown people who never came. Sheesh.

This made me laugh and it shouldn't have. These rural people are often the same ones that tout personal responsibility and the like so it's interesting they would be taking their lives versus living them with personal responsibility. The opioid epidemic is bad but I have a hard time sympathizing because people only care because it is effecting white people at extremely high rates. If this was something that was mostly hurting black and brown people there would be no sympathy and would probably be criminalized much more than it currently is. Just look at Jeff Sessions and his war against weed versus what he is saying about opioids.

 

[Kthulhu]

These are communities which were built around a way of life (mining, agri, low-skill manufacturing) which no longer exists and an economic model which is unsustainable. The reality is that Trump is not going change that, and looking at his budget proposal, stands to make the situation much worse. So what happens when they realize that?

That's the kicker. They'll never realize they are the cause of their own problems.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

These people are also poorly educated. Many lack the intelligence needed to read between the lines and vote correctly for themselves.

For those people the left need to start engaging in discussion instead of shouting at them or posting commentary on social media about how stupid or blind these people are.

The left ain't gonna change collectively much either as people love to feel superior to others without actually doing anything. It's up to each and everyone one of us to work hard at looking at things with a fair and balanced view and then applying that by educating and listening to others.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I'm going to say this as someone who almost contributed to this statistic multiple times: if you actually think that these people deserve to die just based on where they live, go fuck yourself. Like, actually just fuck off. I'm not defending racists, or sexists, or any bigots. Fuck them. I'm a trans person living in the middle of fucking Arkansas for Christ's sake, I know what bigotry looks like. That doesn't change the fact that I have an ounce of empathy for these people who have been denied proper education, sold lies over and over again, are increasingly likely to become addicted to opiates, and actually DO live in a part of the country that is going through hell economically, "economic anxiety" jokes aside. I'm not going to sit here and tell you to like them, or even understand them. Not their views, and sure as shit not why they vote against their own interests time and time again.

But they do not deserve to die.

I'm a Democrat because I believe in a better life for all. That includes the rural Americans who some of you so vehemently hate. And again, I get it. I feel the same way sometimes. But I've also been at that ledge, living in a place that doesn't accept me. I understand that feeling. I empathize with it so goddamn much. Regardless of your political beliefs, you deserve life. I'd like to think that's a more common thing to think that it seems.

This.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Democrats don't win small towns because they don't hate minorities. If these small towns hated elitists so much, they wouldn't have supported this guy:

I still haven't gotten solid answer on whether or not the Trumps have a wind machine in their living room or they just starched the shit out of Melania's dress.

And poor Barron, I've never seen such a FML look on someone surrounded by that much wealth.

I'm going to say this as someone who almost contributed to this statistic multiple times: if you actually think that these people deserve to die just based on where they live, go fuck yourself. Like, actually just fuck off. I'm not defending racists, or sexists, or any bigots. Fuck them. I'm a trans person living in the middle of fucking Arkansas for Christ's sake, I know what bigotry looks like. That doesn't change the fact that I have an ounce of empathy for these people who have been denied proper education, sold lies over and over again, are increasingly likely to become addicted to opiates, and actually DO live in a part of the country that is going through hell economically, "economic anxiety" jokes aside. I'm not going to sit here and tell you to like them, or even understand them. Not their views, and sure as shit not why they vote against their own interests time and time again.

But they do not deserve to die.

I'm a Democrat because I believe in a better life for all. That includes the rural Americans who some of you so vehemently hate. And again, I get it. I feel the same way sometimes. But I've also been at that ledge, living in a place that doesn't accept me. I understand that feeling. I empathize with it so goddamn much. Regardless of your political beliefs, you deserve life. I'd like to think that's a more common thing to think that it seems.

Empathy is the what's been lacking in this nation for decades. I just wrote this in another thread a few days ago but I'm someone that grew up in what was a pretty good lower middle class neighborhood in Brooklyn (Bushwick) and watched it literally transform overnight due to the crack epidemic in the early 80s. I understand exactly what the rust belt states are experiencing right now but part of me really believed that the silver lining to all this suffering would be that people living in those parts of the country who have very limited interaction with minorities would understand how forces can interrupt your life and derail your opportunities and change you into something that you never wanted to be. Maybe they would understand that they actually have a lot in common with people of color and could see how bad circumstances could lead you to drugs and crime. But somehow it seems like this suffering has instead had the opposite effect and made a lot of these people more hateful and judgmental rather than introspective. I really don't understand it. I don't hate them and don't want them to die but I certainly wish that their mentality would die out.

 

[akira28]

And poor Barron, I've never seen such a FML look on someone surrounded by that much wealth.

cheap rich is the worst kind of rich. No one is allowed to enjoy themselves except daddy.

 

[Holiday]

This thread is appalling.

 

[UraMallas]

Here's a timely anecdote from my Facebook timeline. A friend that I went to highschool with just received word that someone he served with in Iraq just killed himself. Not the first time I've seen news like that and won't be the last. I'm sure what he went through in war wasn't helpful in this case, either.

 

[Socivol]

I still haven't gotten solid answer on whether or not the Trumps have a wind machine in their living room or they just starched the shit out of Melania's dress.

And poor Barron, I've never seen such a FML look on someone surrounded by that much wealth.

Empathy is the what's been lacking in this nation for decades. I just wrote this in another thread a few days ago but I'm someone that grew up in what was a pretty good lower middle class neighborhood in Brooklyn (Bushwick) and watched it literally transform overnight due to the crack epidemic in the early 80s. I understand exactly what the rust belt states are experiencing right now but part of me really believed that the silver lining to all this suffering would be that people living in those parts of the country who have very limited interaction with minorities would understand how forces can interrupt your life and derail your opportunities and change you into something that you never wanted to be. Maybe they would understand that they actually have a lot in common with people of color and could see how bad circumstances could lead you to drugs and crime. But somehow it seems like this suffering has instead had the opposite effect and made a lot of these people more hateful and judgmental rather than introspective. I really don't understand it. I don't hate them and don't want them to die but I certainly wish that their mentality would die out.

You don't have to be introspective when you're white just look at the media and how all of these stories of "understanding" these rural white voters. As if poor urban and rural people of color have not been experiencing these same issues for even longer. White people get sympathy and black and brown people get blamed for their situations. Why would you be introspective when everyone is telling the world to listen to you and your hurt while ignoring that of others that have it even worse off?

 

[UraMallas]

You don't have to be introspective when you're white just look at the media and how all of these stories of "understanding" these rural white voters. As if poor urban and rural people of color have not been experiencing these same issues for even longer. White people get sympathy and black and brown people get blamed for their situations. Why would you be introspective when everyone is telling the world to listen to you and your hurt while ignoring that of others that have it even worse off?

I agree that minorities have it worse due to systemic racism and white privilege. I'm not denying those things exist and are real and tragic. I find it sad that our society continually suppresses minorities and acts like it's their own fault - if only they would just take the responsibility of economic mobility upon themselves. It's bullshit and I'm ashamed of it.

 

[MGrant]

Yeah I'm sure people outside of cities don't value community.

Please do explain how you came up with this insane theory.

I didn't say they don't value community. I said it's not healthy to live in isolation. Look up the studies on depression and suicide; this is everywhere. US, UK, Japan, Sweden, Australia, Finland, Taiwan, I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones I found quickly by googling. Living in isolated rural communities is bad for you. It doesn't have to be this way: we could work on alleviating the years of neglect and isolation they've had to live through. I mean no disrespect to the people who feed, clothe, and shelter us with their labor.

 

[Socivol]

I agree that minorities have it worse due to systemic racism and white privilege. I'm not denying those things exist and are real and tragic. I find it sad that our society continually suppresses minorities and acts like it's their own fault - if only they would just take the responsibility of economic mobility upon themselves. It's bullshit and I'm ashamed of it.

I agree but I think that white rural voters aren't introspective for that reason. Americans are to be sympathetic to their plight instead of using their own rhetoric against them. Because of this they don't see themselves as the problem or identify with minorities in the same situations because Americans view those minorities as being the CAUSE of their problems.

 

[Xe4]

Yeah, rural America has always had problems, ever since the wealth started moving into cities. Funny enough, the cities in the 60's-now have similar problems with the wealthy citizens moving into suburbs, though with the tech boom, that trend seems to be reversing.

A big part of suicides increasing has not only to do with Opioid usage, but also with firearm use increasing, since suicide tracks remarkably with firearm possession.

It's a problem, and it's a shame those same rural voters who vote republican get fucked by them. Ever since Regan cut mental health services, they've been pretty adamant about not giving a shit about rural white Americans. Unfortunately, lack of education, effort by democrats (why try for a district if you're not going to win it, and democrats are shit at long term strategy), racism, and tradition have kept these same people voting for their own services to be cut. It wouldn't be a problem if the economy was doing fine, but it's not. Coal is dying, and never going to come back. Manufacturing has moved either to states like Texas and California, or overseas (or is automated), and all of the best and brightest move to the cities. All in all it leads to a shitty situation made worse by those in it, and those manipulating them of course.

 

[Foffy]

This made me laugh and it shouldn't have. These rural people are often the same ones that tout personal responsibility and the like so it's interesting they would be taking their lives versus living them with personal responsibility. The opioid epidemic is bad but I have a hard time sympathizing because people only care because it is effecting white people at extremely high rates. If this was something that was mostly hurting black and brown people there would be no sympathy and would probably be criminalized much more than it currently is. Just look at Jeff Sessions and his war against weed versus what he is saying about opioids.

They've normalized neoliberal ideology of isolationism, which is a huge problem. I'd say it's the problem here.

How is it a problem? Simple: neoliberalism puts all good of society on market Capitalism, and any failings on the individual. Mix that with those who believe in dualistic theologies like Christianity, and thus you get the concept of free will, thus normalizing the systemic failings as isolated acts. It becomes a situation where culture isn't seen as a problem, but that "I fucked up," and in that, all social games or justifying misery are given. Is this not how we justify the displaced and dejected? We look for ways to see them as outliers, not emergent actions from prior social, systemic causes.

Consider how this is the same culture that can call Communism dogshit yet walk by homeless people right in front of signs talking about such regimes not caring for others. The normalizing of dangerous ideas is a tremendous problem, and many who mock rural America likely don't realize they're victim to dogmatic thought.

 

[UraMallas]

I agree but I think that white rural voters aren't introspective for that reason. Americans are to be sympathetic to their plight instead of using their own rhetoric against them. Because of this they don't see themselves as the problem or identify with minorities in the same situations because Americans view those minorities as being the CAUSE of their problems.

I agree but I also say that that's a fault in humanity. Would you say it's a fault in white people inherently or a fault in humanity inherently? If it's the second, you would logically want to extend your empathy (and hand) to them regardless. If you believe it's the first thing then this will have to go in a different direction entirely.

 

[GamerSoul]

Rural areas, inner cities...this country man. It's depressing to think these areas are not getting enough help. But then again there's no convenient solution. People need a reason to live, to get up in the morning, to have self worth. Hell, I'm sure people with various options still struggle at times with that, imo.

 

[Foffy]

Rural areas, inner cities...this country man. It's depressing to think these areas are not getting enough help. But then again there's no convenient solution. People need a reason to live, to get up in the morning, to have self worth. Hell, I'm sure people with various options still struggle at times with that, imo.

Not to let my Zen discipline infect my entire point, but when one's self-worth is based on doing, much like happiness via attainments, this can quickly be destructive to people.

We've long overlooked the fact that being really is enough. We think being means nothing and everything is on doing, and thus the game of attachments and aversions within modern life occur. Who really wins here when the masses of humanity are collectively losing both the planet and their very lives to this game?

If your self-worth depends upon doing, you're racing against a clock that only accelerates the more and harder you try.

 

[Socivol]

I agree but I also say that that's a fault in humanity. Would you say it's a fault in white people inherently or a fault in humanity inherently? If it's the second, you would logically want to extend your empathy (and hand) to them regardless. If you believe it's the first thing then this will have to go in a different direction entirely.

It's the 1st to me for sure. I'm not white so I don't get to live in the that fantasy world. I also think only other white people are the ones sympathetic and empathetic towards them to begin with. It's difficult to sympathize and empathize with them when I know their shitty choices make it even harder on minorities that are already facing worse struggles.

 

[Lyn]

I think there is a lot more to this issue that people are overlooking.

There is a stark divide between rural and urban populations. Most seem to only notice the obvious such as access to jobs, education (and thus vote differently), and opportunity. What seems to be overlooked though is that both regions have very differing world views as well. They are rarely the same when it comes to what people value, and it is what rural people tend to value that is falling apart.

Smaller communities tend to value community, faith, and hard work. Community and faith are continuing to wither away though in many regions, and good jobs are increasingly harder to find. It is easy to say get up and move to the city then, but aside from the economic issues associated with that, many people don't want to move to the city because it is seen as cold, callous, and uncaring. Small towns generally consist of a community feel, knowing who each other are and letting kids run free in the street knowing people are watching out for each other. Everyone comes out for community events, fairs, or church gatherings.

As things fall apart economically though, so does the community. The lack of mental health resources are no doubt one cause of these suicides, but so is the feeling of being alone in a community that once cared for each other. When you used to rely on others for moral support, it is difficult to adjust to feeling alone. People are having to commute further, are retreating to their devices more, getting hopped up on drugs, etc. Nobody has time for each other when they struggle to make their own ends meet or have already hit hard times. Thus more people feel alone and are at a higher risk of drug use and suicide.

As someone from a small rural town, if you truly care about this subject and are willing to put aside your own bias, I really suggest reading up on some of Chris Arnade's articles. He went from Wall Street to writing articles about rural America for The Guardian. Having grown up in a rural town myself, he hits the nail on the head quite often and essentially describes so many people I have known in my life.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...-to-say-america-is-already-great-rings-hollow
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/chris-arnade
https://medium.com/@Chris_arnade/latest

 

[Mistake]

When you're faced with car repairs, medical or student debt, and even lawyer fees, things seem especially desperate too. I'm not surprised by any of it. At least it's easy to buy a gun though!

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Always sad to hear about suicides, regardless of demographic or political affiliation. I wish more people had access to treatment and/or healthier lifestyles.

 

[UraMallas]

It's the 1st to me for sure. I'm not white so I don't get to live in the that fantasy world. I also think only other white people are the ones sympathetic and empathetic towards them to begin with. It's difficult to sympathize and empathize with them when I know their shitty choices make it even harder on minorities that are already facing worse struggles.

You realize you're racist. Right? You believe there is an inherent flaw in a singular group of people based on the color of their skin.

 

[EatinOlives]

Real talk, rural America has serious problems in terms of infrastructure, access to quality healthcare, shot-to-hell job market, and extremely insular communities where bad experiences bounce off people like sound in a small tile room.

Unfortunately republicans are not interested in fixing their problems. They want to keep rural regions underfunded, poor, and uneducated so they can keep washing their brains. It's really sad.

 

[ibyea]

I think there is a lot more to this issue that people are overlooking.

There is a stark divide between rural and urban populations. Most seem to only notice the obvious such as access to jobs, education (and thus vote differently), and opportunity. What seems to be overlooked though is that both regions have very differing world views as well. They are rarely the same when it comes to what people value, and it is what rural people tend to value that is falling apart.

Smaller communities tend to value community, faith, and hard work. Community and faith are continuing to wither away though in many regions, and good jobs are increasingly harder to find. It is easy to say get up and move to the city then, but aside from the economic issues associated with that, many people don't want to move to the city because it is seen as cold, callous, and uncaring. Small towns generally consist of a community feel, knowing who each other are and letting kids run free in the street knowing people are watching out for each other. Everyone comes out for community events, fairs, or church gatherings.

As things fall apart economically though, so does the community. The lack of mental health resources are no doubt one cause of these suicides, but so is the feeling of being alone in a community that once cared for each other. When you used to rely on others for moral support, it is difficult to adjust to feeling alone. People are having to commute further, are retreating to their devices more, getting hopped up on drugs, etc. Nobody has time for each other when they struggle to make their own ends meet or have already hit hard times. Thus more people feel alone and are at a higher risk of drug use and suicide.

As someone from a small rural town, if you truly care about this subject and are willing to put aside your own bias, I really suggest reading up on some of Chris Arnade's articles. He went from Wall Street to writing articles about rural America for The Guardian. Having grown up in a rural town myself, he hits the nail on the head quite often and essentially describes so many people I have known in my life.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...-to-say-america-is-already-great-rings-hollow
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/chris-arnade
https://medium.com/@Chris_arnade/latest

I do think they have problems and many posters here are indeed lashing out in a terrible manner.

At the same times though, when I read this, and read people say crap like ”These people on welfare, they're living better than what I am. I am working two jobs. I like what Trump is doing with the auto factories. We need jobs here, in the United States.", and it just makes me angry and bitter all over again, and it makes me want to lash out just like them.

So I understand the feeling. But I don't think it's good to just say the first callous thing that comes through our mind even if the anger is in some ways justified. Sometimes I think it's important to just step back, contemplate a bit, and hold back on unnecessary cruelties.

 

[UraMallas]

It's hard to do the right thing sometimes. Not in a poster quote type of way - this thread gives a real life example of it. Like, this is an actual hard thing to do. I'm an atheist but it's some New Testament Jesus type parable shit in the flesh.

 

[NeoGold123]

For anyone seriously looking to uproot themselves and to move to a more prosperous area, what's usually a good baseline amount of money should you have to your name before you decide to make that move? I've always wondered if it's a matter of not having the money, or having the money, but not certain if there should be more money to be on the safe side. To me, $30 grand sounds like a good base to cover your move to your new destination, finding an apartment, and having a small nest egg left over while you're starting your new job. And yet, I can't help but feel that it wouldn't be enough.

Wow. I don't know what kind of income you get, but personally $30 grand would probably take me at least 5 years to save at my current income. My old roommate moved to Maine from Texas on ~$3000 and even that was more than enough. He saved every little bit he could for the better part of a year, but had a job and place to live set up before he left, which would be what most people do. Your estimation just seems to me to be completely ridiculous.

And, with your estimation, if one were to use 10,000 total for the move (which is a pretty large sum for a move), and think that remaining 20,000 is a "small nest egg", you really probably don't understand what it's like to live in these rural areas.

 

[MGrant]

Wow. I don't know what kind of income you get, but personally $30 grand would probably take me at least 5 years to save at my current income. My old roommate moved to Maine from Texas on ~$3000 and even that was more than enough. He saved every little bit he could for the better part of a year, but had a job and place to live set up before he left, which would be what most people do. Your estimation just seems to me to be completely ridiculous.

Yeah, I was in bad financial shape years back, but still moved to the other side of the world with about 2000 liquid. Get a job, get first month's rent, get food money, and you're good. Never had to borrow against my retirement account or get any loans.

Not to say that it's the least risky decision, but it's doable with a year or less of saving.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Any country that has prosperous cities are probably facing the same thing. In Russia's case, there are some similar aspects, but for different reasons. The fall of the Soviet Union has done a number to the people which is one of the reasons and some of their problems has been a large issue for years.

I think it depends on the density. The UK has plenty of prosperous cities but there size of the country means that there aren't many rural areas from which you cannot communte to a big city. This means people with good jobs can stay there even if they don't work in the local area.

 

[jerry113]

For anyone seriously looking to uproot themselves and to move to a more prosperous area, what's usually a good baseline amount of money should you have to your name before you decide to make that move? I've always wondered if it's a matter of not having the money, or having the money, but not certain if there should be more money to be on the safe side. To me, $30 grand sounds like a good base to cover your move to your new destination, finding an apartment, and having a small nest egg left over while you're starting your new job. And yet, I can't help but feel that it wouldn't be enough.

The key is having a job ready for you at the other end before you even get there. And that's the biggest hurdle to overcome.

If you're coming from a place of lesser prospects then you're less likely to have the marketable skills for you to acquire a higher skilled job in the first place in a bigger city.

It helps to have some connections on the other end. If you don't, then there's going to be risk involved.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I live in a rural area, and it sucks. In all honesty I had thought about suicide about three years ago. It didn't help that I lost my job of 12 years right after that. Now I do have a better job that pays slightly better, but me and my GF want to move to the South Bend/South West Michigan area to be closer to her folks and because it fucking sucks here. At least I'm managing OK work-wise, but she hasn't been able to find fulltime work in eight months. Where I live the only decent paying jobs are back breaking warehouse jobs. I've got a decent customer service job thankfully. Everything else is fucking fast food and minimum wage shit despite the fact cost of living keeps going up and up. Once Automation hits big time, rural America is going to look like a 3rd world country/post-apocalyptic wasteland. I did vote for Hillary though. I'm vigorously anti-Trump and anti- Gop

 

[McLovin]

It's so crazy they think of Oxycodone like it's ok to take take but consider weed to be a hardcore drug. Ones basically opium, only covers up pain temporarily, and is highly addictive, the other is natural, has actual medical benefits, and isn't addictive.

 

[crackhead_bob]

Do you think that there are Trump voters who made that poison pill decision to elect him, knowing the ramifications of their vote, that he is a racist -- or at the very least, ran his campaign to appeal to racist impulses -- and in doing so felt like they shot their own dog? Was this a Lando Calrissian type of bind they were in, or was it a simply a matter of lacking empathy and decency? I mean, what a moral quandry to be an evangelical christian and to have to fall in line with this creep. I don't believe for a second that they didn't know of Trump's predilections when he was campaigning, much like I don't believe for a second that they subscribe without question the theory that man and dinosaur walked the earth side by side.

I go back and forth with rural voters. Are they all that dense to buy into a carnival huckster's sleight of hand routine? It's similar to how I feel about people who attend these mega churches in the deep south. I often feel a conflicted mix of pity and contempt for these people, given how their lack of critical thinking not only screws themselves over, but everyone else as well.

 

[theignoramus]

I live in a rural area and they aren't far off the mark.

"Sundown towns"

 

[crackhead_bob]

Wow. I don't know what kind of income you get, but personally $30 grand would probably take me at least 5 years to save at my current income.

My old roommate moved to Maine from Texas on ~$3000 and even that was more than enough. He saved every little bit he could for the better part of a year, but had a job and place to live set up before he left, which would be what most people do. Your estimation just seems to me to be completely ridiculous.

And, with your estimation, if one were to use 10,000 total for the move (which is a pretty large sum for a move), and think that remaining 20,000 is a "small nest egg", you really probably don't understand what it's like to live in these rural areas.

I wasn't trying to dispense solid advice. I live in western New York and was positing a hypothetical question. I personally don't know how much money is enough to make that giant leap needed. Personally. I could have ninety grand saved up and it wouldn't feel enough because I don't have any personal experience to draw from.

 

[EGM1966]

It's genuinely sad but the people inhabiting these areas need to realize they've put themselves into a Catch 22 where their core political beliefs (in terms of the majority in the region) and behavior is literally trapping them into more of the same.

Believing someone like Trump who's more than happy to turn up and say whatever they want to hear is the worst option for them and they're accountable for following the easy path vs challenging their own views and realizing they need to reassess their beliefs and what will benefit them.

Feels like they just can't break out of the cycle though.

 

[kess]

It's genuinely sad but the people inhabiting these areas need to realize they've put themselves into a Catch 22 where their core political beliefs (in terms of the majority in the region) and behavior is literally trapping them into more of the same.

Believing someone like Trump who's more than happy to turn up and say whatever they want to hear is the worst option for them and they're accountable for following the easy path vs challenging their own views and realizing they need to reassess their beliefs and what will benefit them.

Feels like they just can't break out of the cycle though.

Well, given a choice between being Great Again, and being told that your way of life is inefficient and anachronistic, it's not hard to see how that choice was made. There was an awful lot of rationalization during the campaign about his policies, and vast amounts of his platform were being ignored for that nugget of hope and a promise of action. That's why the Carrier story was so distracting. Eco didn't invent the "cult of action for action's sake" out of nothing.

Right now the spell is half broken and his more soft supporters are either waking up to his true intent, or doubling down on the feedback loop provided by Fox News and increasingly, Breitbart and Infowars.

 

[ClosingADoor]

It's genuinely sad but the people inhabiting these areas need to realize they've put themselves into a Catch 22 where their core political beliefs (in terms of the majority in the region) and behavior is literally trapping them into more of the same.

Believing someone like Trump who's more than happy to turn up and say whatever they want to hear is the worst option for them and they're accountable for following the easy path vs challenging their own views and realizing they need to reassess their beliefs and what will benefit them.

Feels like they just can't break out of the cycle though.

One side says "you suck, go move somewhere else" and the other says "we are going to fix your town." Which side do you pick?

You're right they can't break out of the cycle on their own. That is why Democrats need to reach out and help them fix it. It's not how it should be, it's not easy, it is not how we all want it to be, but it is the only way to give people new opportunities and in turn prevent another Trump situation.

 

[crackhead_bob]

Well, given a choice between being Great Again, and being told that your way of life is inefficient and anachronistic, it's not hard to see how that choice was made. There was an awful lot of rationalization during the campaign about his policies, and vast amounts of his platform were being ignored for that nugget of hope and a promise of action. That's why the Carrier story was so distracting. Eco didn't invent the "cult of action for action's sake" out of nothing.

Right now the spell is half broken and his more soft supporters are either waking up to his true intent, or doubling down on the feedback loop provided by Fox News and increasingly, Breitbart and Infowars.

Can they even genuflect? Who the fuck wants to admit to voting in a fascist at face value -- and that's exactly how his campaign was predicated on, beginning with his assertion that all Mexicans were rapists? I understand the notion of reconciling of those who err on reckless impulse, but for me, there's always the temptation to shove their noses in this shit they've wrought upon each and every one of us. It's not like Donald Trump's chicanery was under the radar this whole time.

You're right they can't break out of the cycle on their own. That is why Democrats need to reach out and help them fix it. It's not how it should be, it's not easy, it is not how we all want it to be, but it is the only way to give people new opportunities and in turn prevent another Trump situation.

And how do you do that to people who constantly strap on lead boots and jump off bridges. These people time and time vote against their best interests over the most short sighted of reasons. Abortion alone overrides their own sense of critical thinking on a whole host of issues that effect them directly. I personally am tired of gay marriage and abortion being the decisive issue that determines the future of our economy and environment. This is the bullshit we are constantly faced with. I apologize to those on the LGBT community, as well as women, but that's how I feel. I feel like I and many others are constantly being dicked over by these issues that have nothing to do with me in the greater scheme of things. And the kicker is, at least for these inbred dominionist fuck-knuckles who constantly vote like this in order to stick it to whomever they have a grievance with, none of this improves their lives in the slightest.

 

[NeoGold123]

I wasn't trying to dispense solid advice. I live in western New York and was positing a hypothetical question. I personally don't know how much money is enough to make that giant leap needed. Personally. I could have ninety grand saved up and it wouldn't feel enough because I don't have any personal experience to draw from.

For sure I wasn't aiming to single you out or anything, I tried to phrase my language in such a way that it wouldn't. But I think what you said definitely holds merit in that many people simply don't know how it is to live paycheck to paycheck on a near poverty line income, which is the case for a great many people that live in rural areas. It certainly casts a great shade on the future when those in these rural begins to consider their opportunities available to them, realizing that the rest of their life is going to be a struggle and decides they would rather just end it than essentially living just to exist.

 

[Monocle]

A lot of these people are trapped in a hell of their own making. Or their families' and communities' making. They should thank their parents for voting against their interests. Not that you can necessarily blame people who find themselves in the middle of a transgenerational cycle of poverty and ignorance.

 

[teruterubozu]

Man, this thread. It's like people want to build a wall around urban areas so rural communities can shrivel up and die. No better than Trump, really.