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The Beginner's Guide |OT| The Davey Parable
- Thread starter guybrushfreeman
- Start date
I finished this game an hour ago, and I'm finding it really, really hard to talk about.
I get why some people aren't crazy about it.
I don't really get why people are debating whether or not Coda is a real person. Though I will say that even if you question this, or think that the question of whether or not Coda is real is some sort of trick, there's no chance that you understood what the game was doing (regardless of whether or not it was successful in doing so).
Personally, this may have been one of the most emotionally affecting pieces of media I've consumed in any form over the last few years. I cried so, so hard.
And, yeah, I understand why people might find that strange. I think people are assuming that the game's trying to be clever, or funny, or quirky, when at it's core it's just brutally, devastatingly honest. It's trying to explain something that's pretty much impossible to put into words, and I think it does a damn fine job of it.
I felt like it reached into me and grabbed on to something extremely personal, and then squeezed as hard as it could.
I get why some people aren't crazy about it.
I don't really get why people are debating whether or not Coda is a real person. Though I will say that even if you question this, or think that the question of whether or not Coda is real is some sort of trick, there's no chance that you understood what the game was doing (regardless of whether or not it was successful in doing so).
Personally, this may have been one of the most emotionally affecting pieces of media I've consumed in any form over the last few years. I cried so, so hard.
And, yeah, I understand why people might find that strange. I think people are assuming that the game's trying to be clever, or funny, or quirky, when at it's core it's just brutally, devastatingly honest. It's trying to explain something that's pretty much impossible to put into words, and I think it does a damn fine job of it.
I felt like it reached into me and grabbed on to something extremely personal, and then squeezed as hard as it could.
OniBarubary
Banned
I think something that is astonishing about this is that my first feeling after playing it was negative.
But after watching other people play it, specifically Jacksepticeye, and seeing how it affected them and looking at a playthrough from a distance and not expecting a 2nd Stanley Parable...I think it resonated a lot harder with me.
Jacksepticeye breaking down during Davey's breakdown actually messed me up really bad. It hitting him hit ME hard. It made me listen to Davey's breakdown and just...shook me. The voice acting from him is SUPER real in this game and REALLY good.
I think even despite my negative impressions, I think this game was an experience. And something...you don't get in games a lot.
But after watching other people play it, specifically Jacksepticeye, and seeing how it affected them and looking at a playthrough from a distance and not expecting a 2nd Stanley Parable...I think it resonated a lot harder with me.
Jacksepticeye breaking down during Davey's breakdown actually messed me up really bad. It hitting him hit ME hard. It made me listen to Davey's breakdown and just...shook me. The voice acting from him is SUPER real in this game and REALLY good.
I think even despite my negative impressions, I think this game was an experience. And something...you don't get in games a lot.
I didn't like thing because
I couldn't shake how silly and non-believable it was.
I really DID like how he only uses the word "game" for everything we are seeing. When people take that word literally for everything they play, and then complain using terms like non-game or walking simulator, I get creeped out by the lack of insight. "Games" are the interactive analog to other media like films, books and songs. No matter their content. So, bravo Davey for that.
the "twist" was painfully obvious from the second game, and the premise only becomes more absurd.
Even if you ignore all the technical, physical and social realities of game development and developers which make it implausible, if not impossible for Coda and his games to exist in the context described, you might simply consider the legal ramifications of selling someone else's work for a non-trivial sum.
Even if you ignore all the technical, physical and social realities of game development and developers which make it implausible, if not impossible for Coda and his games to exist in the context described, you might simply consider the legal ramifications of selling someone else's work for a non-trivial sum.
I really DID like how he only uses the word "game" for everything we are seeing. When people take that word literally for everything they play, and then complain using terms like non-game or walking simulator, I get creeped out by the lack of insight. "Games" are the interactive analog to other media like films, books and songs. No matter their content. So, bravo Davey for that.
I'm kind of amazed that everyone is so quick to assume Coda is some construct of Davey - I don't think the story was that implausible, and some parts were fairly detailed, like meeting Coda at a game jam before playing any of the other games, and being sent a bundle of empty room games and playing them all. Maybe some of that can be corroborated.
The only point that really casts some doubt in my mind is that Stanley Parable released a month after Coda's last game, and it's undeniable it shares the artistic feel as all of these.
It just feels too comfortable to assume he's fake, like that absolves Davey of releasing these games and everyone can feel better about playing it. At the point he revealed Coda's request not to share his games, I realized this wasn't something I should be playing, that shouldn't be reviewed - he, if it was fake, is in both personas telling us this isn't something we were supposed to see. It feels to me like it takes some assumptions from "this is a game on Steam" that means that it couldn't possibly be real.
Sure, Davey has given off the vibe that he's insecure, and this may have been an outlet, but then that insecurity lends credibility to the act of releasing these games against the creators will - it just feels too presumptuous to me to assume Coda is fake so I can feel better about having played it.
It's just so ambiguous, so that there's no way to be sure you're interpreting it correctly, that even if I'm wrong about Coda being real, I feel guilty for having played it because it's the only concrete possibility presented, and what he's done is wrong.
The only point that really casts some doubt in my mind is that Stanley Parable released a month after Coda's last game, and it's undeniable it shares the artistic feel as all of these.
It just feels too comfortable to assume he's fake, like that absolves Davey of releasing these games and everyone can feel better about playing it. At the point he revealed Coda's request not to share his games, I realized this wasn't something I should be playing, that shouldn't be reviewed - he, if it was fake, is in both personas telling us this isn't something we were supposed to see. It feels to me like it takes some assumptions from "this is a game on Steam" that means that it couldn't possibly be real.
Sure, Davey has given off the vibe that he's insecure, and this may have been an outlet, but then that insecurity lends credibility to the act of releasing these games against the creators will - it just feels too presumptuous to me to assume Coda is fake so I can feel better about having played it.
It's just so ambiguous, so that there's no way to be sure you're interpreting it correctly, that even if I'm wrong about Coda being real, I feel guilty for having played it because it's the only concrete possibility presented, and what he's done is wrong.
show me your skeleton
Member
so
all in all i found it eerily reminiscent of the house of leaves.
the 'enter' game and the 'exit' game had game/s inbetween right? did they become a tryptich (or bigger) analogous to the reacurring door pizzle?
all in all i found it eerily reminiscent of the house of leaves.
I wanted to make a post when I first finished this but never got around to it. Had written some long thing then just decided not to submit it. Never came back here but have been reading what some other people have written about it and discovered. It's kind of strange.
I was actually thinking the same thing, but I wasn't sure if it was close enough to make a good connection. For some reason it also made me think of the film Adaptation.
On the surface, the game's story is about how you can't really make assumptions and inferences about someone from their art, but the game almost begs you to do the same thing. I've been guilty of the same thing in the past. Sometimes you try to learn something about an artist to gain better understanding of their art, but sometimes you try to learn something about a piece of art to gain better understanding of an artist. The game has made me a bit more aware of how I approach criticism.
all in all i found it eerily reminiscent of the house of leaves.
I was actually thinking the same thing, but I wasn't sure if it was close enough to make a good connection. For some reason it also made me think of the film Adaptation.
Attleborotaco
Member
I'm kind of amazed that everyone is so quick to assume Coda is some construct of Davey - I don't think the story was that implausible, and some parts were fairly detailed, like meeting Coda at a game jam before playing any of the other games, and being sent a bundle of empty room games and playing them all. Maybe some of that can be corroborated.
The only point that really casts some doubt in my mind is that Stanley Parable released a month after Coda's last game, and it's undeniable it shares the artistic feel as all of these.
It just feels too comfortable to assume he's fake, like that absolves Davey of releasing these games and everyone can feel better about playing it. At the point he revealed Coda's request not to share his games, I realized this wasn't something I should be playing, that shouldn't be reviewed - he, if it was fake, is in both personas telling us this isn't something we were supposed to see. It feels to me like it takes some assumptions from "this is a game on Steam" that means that it couldn't possibly be real.
Sure, Davey has given off the vibe that he's insecure, and this may have been an outlet, but then that insecurity lends credibility to the act of releasing these games against the creators will - it just feels too presumptuous to me to assume Coda is fake so I can feel better about having played it.
It's just so ambiguous, so that there's no way to be sure you're interpreting it correctly, that even if I'm wrong about Coda being real, I feel guilty for having played it because it's the only concrete possibility presented, and what he's done is wrong.
Is it not possible that his games served as some sort of inspiration for the stanley parable?
I'm kind of amazed that everyone is so quick to assume Coda is some construct of Davey - I don't think the story was that implausible, and some parts were fairly detailed, like meeting Coda at a game jam before playing any of the other games, and being sent a bundle of empty room games and playing them all. Maybe some of that can be corroborated.
The only point that really casts some doubt in my mind is that Stanley Parable released a month after Coda's last game, and it's undeniable it shares the artistic feel as all of these.
It just feels too comfortable to assume he's fake, like that absolves Davey of releasing these games and everyone can feel better about playing it. At the point he revealed Coda's request not to share his games, I realized this wasn't something I should be playing, that shouldn't be reviewed - he, if it was fake, is in both personas telling us this isn't something we were supposed to see. It feels to me like it takes some assumptions from "this is a game on Steam" that means that it couldn't possibly be real.
Sure, Davey has given off the vibe that he's insecure, and this may have been an outlet, but then that insecurity lends credibility to the act of releasing these games against the creators will - it just feels too presumptuous to me to assume Coda is fake so I can feel better about having played it.
It's just so ambiguous, so that there's no way to be sure you're interpreting it correctly, that even if I'm wrong about Coda being real, I feel guilty for having played it because it's the only concrete possibility presented, and what he's done is wrong.
If Coda were real, don't you think other people would've heard of him before this game came out? He was supposedly at a game jam, so he has to be known by someone right? I truly didn't believe anybody thought he was real until I now.
There's just too many inconsistencies for CODA or any of the situations described by Davey to be real for me.
I think it was a neat little experience (that I watched, I admit). Although I think people pin more meaning on it that what it is. Which is ironic because it's precisely what I think it's about: The influence of outside communities projecting their own meaning on a product/piece of art, and if either it elevates or muddies the original work, as that's kinda what I see presented to me at the end of the game (especially considering the unreliable narration). That and there's a bit of commentary on self reflection as a creator I guess, which has some genuinely moving moments since I'm rather thinking Davey is talking about himself and it's also a reflection of his own persona prior to stanley parable. But I also think it's not the main point of the game. Maybe because I am an artist/dev, the middle part was more provoking to me (before the twist at the end) since I related more. In retrospect though, I feel more manipulated now
It's a neat piece and I am probably missing some subtleties.
However I don't think it's worth the price, or some of the vast praise it got (I think it's even detrimental or missing the point entirely, or being extremely naive...that or I'm being played like a fool. Like Jim Sterling did a huge personal piece about it and I'm not sure if he's serious or if he's going along the practical joke as well to add like some meta narrative to the whole thing)
First off, someone pointed out to me that some of the technology CODA uses back in 2009 for his "walk-backward" games wasn't possible in Source at the time of supposed development.
How also did Davey got a hold of everyone of Coda's game, especially considering he kept them at some point in his recycling bin and that would be emptied regularily. UNless Davey managed to harass CODA enough for every. single. game that he has which seems just...unplausible. And worrying
That and CODA's behaviour seem irrational too with what Davey is describing
The fact that Davey uses the end as an apology letter while still not only putting CODA's game out for everyone but SELLING them. For 10 bucks. That and he still blatantly lies (lamp posts) and fabricates a personality for CODA.
Also crediting 20 different people on the game by the way.
The fact that it just looks so eerily similar to Davey's style in terms of looks and mechanics. Really it's just baffling, too baffling
How also did Davey got a hold of everyone of Coda's game, especially considering he kept them at some point in his recycling bin and that would be emptied regularily. UNless Davey managed to harass CODA enough for every. single. game that he has which seems just...unplausible. And worrying
That and CODA's behaviour seem irrational too with what Davey is describing
The fact that Davey uses the end as an apology letter while still not only putting CODA's game out for everyone but SELLING them. For 10 bucks. That and he still blatantly lies (lamp posts) and fabricates a personality for CODA.
Also crediting 20 different people on the game by the way.
The fact that it just looks so eerily similar to Davey's style in terms of looks and mechanics. Really it's just baffling, too baffling
I think it was a neat little experience (that I watched, I admit). Although I think people pin more meaning on it that what it is. Which is ironic because it's precisely what I think it's about: The influence of outside communities projecting their own meaning on a product/piece of art, and if either it elevates or muddies the original work, as that's kinda what I see presented to me at the end of the game (especially considering the unreliable narration). That and there's a bit of commentary on self reflection as a creator I guess, which has some genuinely moving moments since I'm rather thinking Davey is talking about himself and it's also a reflection of his own persona prior to stanley parable. But I also think it's not the main point of the game. Maybe because I am an artist/dev, the middle part was more provoking to me (before the twist at the end) since I related more. In retrospect though, I feel more manipulated now
It's a neat piece and I am probably missing some subtleties.
However I don't think it's worth the price, or some of the vast praise it got (I think it's even detrimental or missing the point entirely, or being extremely naive...that or I'm being played like a fool. Like Jim Sterling did a huge personal piece about it and I'm not sure if he's serious or if he's going along the practical joke as well to add like some meta narrative to the whole thing)
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Just finished it.
Interesting, but I'm seriously considering asking for a refund.
I don't begrudge this game's existence, nor am I going to question the the authenticity of the story it contains, but I don't feel comfortable in being charged for this. I'd certainly feel more comfortable if the money were going to charity or something.
Unfortunately, my playtime is 4 hours (I was juggling playing this with doing something else, so the time I had the game paused counted). I may not be eligible, but we'll see.
In any case, I'm not going to let this affect my impression of Davey or The Stanley Parable (still one of my favourite games of all time) in any way. I hope to see an actual creation by Davey at some point in the future, and I hope things work out well for him.
Interesting, but I'm seriously considering asking for a refund.
By Davey's own admission, it doesn't exist for me the player. It exists because it's his way of trying to get back in contact with Coda. So what exactly I'm I paying Davey for? Certainly not to be entertained, as that wasn't the intent, regardless of whether it succeeded in that or not. And certainly not to reimburse Davey for the "game"'s creation, as 95% of what's there was created by somebody else, and used without their permission, no less.
I don't begrudge this game's existence, nor am I going to question the the authenticity of the story it contains, but I don't feel comfortable in being charged for this. I'd certainly feel more comfortable if the money were going to charity or something.
Unfortunately, my playtime is 4 hours (I was juggling playing this with doing something else, so the time I had the game paused counted). I may not be eligible, but we'll see.
In any case, I'm not going to let this affect my impression of Davey or The Stanley Parable (still one of my favourite games of all time) in any way. I hope to see an actual creation by Davey at some point in the future, and I hope things work out well for him.
More_Badass
Member
Wait,Just finished it.
Interesting, but I'm seriously considering asking for a refund.By Davey's own admission, it doesn't exist for me the player. It exists because it's his way of trying to get back in contact with Coda. So what exactly I'm I paying Davey for? Certainly not to be entertained, as that wasn't the intent, regardless of whether it succeeded in that or not. And certainly not to reimburse Davey for the "game"'s creation, as 95% of what's there was created by somebody else, and used without their permission, no less.
I don't begrudge this game's existence, nor am I going to question the the authenticity of the story it contains, but I don't feel comfortable in being charged for this. I'd certainly feel more comfortable if the money were going to charity or something.
Unfortunately, my playtime is 4 hours (I was juggling playing this with doing something else, so the time I had the game paused counted). I may not be eligible, but we'll see.
do you really think Coda is a real person and that Davey didn't actually make those sections?
Wow, this goes way beyond meta. And it just keeps going in the youtube comments...
Actually, this video analysis might just be the perfect companion piece to the game.
Shake Appeal
Member
Wait, people think Coda is actually real?
Cripplegate
Member
I just played this, finished it literally an hour ago and came to see if GAF had a discussion thread (conveniently bumped, nice timing).
Reading through the thread, it's amusing to see so many people getting bamboozled by an unreliable narrator.
Granted, I don't know anything about Davey Wreden or his personal life, but the potentially autobiographical elements are interesting to consider as well.
An absolutely singular experience. I quite liked it.
Reading through the thread, it's amusing to see so many people getting bamboozled by an unreliable narrator.
Granted, I don't know anything about Davey Wreden or his personal life, but the potentially autobiographical elements are interesting to consider as well.
An absolutely singular experience. I quite liked it.
Candescence
Member
Wait, people think Coda is actually real?
Well, I don't quite blame them, due to the biographical style of the game, it's not indicated as a pure work of fiction. Though they also wouldn't know certain details such as certain 'games' in this work using functionality that simply wasn't in Source back when they were supposedly made, and the games themselves sometimes being too high quality visually to be the work of just one guy. Not to mention if 'Coda' did exist, you'd think they would have put up a stink about Davey selling his stuff by now.
The idea of this being authentically biographical doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, but it's still an enjoyable work of fiction in the format.
Wait, people think Coda is actually real?
Yeah, some just kind of run with it. I think it is valid in a very thin way. Most logic would dictate that it is pretty unlikely for that to be the case.
Glad this was bumped recently so I wasn't the one who had to do it. Just played it today, and was surprised at how much it affected me. As a creative type, I've found myself experiencing a lot of what Davey describes in the game. The desire for validation, the difficulty of speaking about personal issues to others, all of it really resonated with me. A beautiful game.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Wow, excellent video. Really highlights how the game showed "death of the author" in games.
I finally managed to play it and... it is quite something. I need to collect my thoughts. I... I can't remember any sort of work making me feel like TBG for it's entire duration.
OK, it's intentions are instantly apparent but they don't detract from the game, it's a beautiful creation.
OK, it's intentions are instantly apparent but they don't detract from the game, it's a beautiful creation.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yeah, this is the one good thing I've read or heard about The Beginner's Guide since finishing it (although admittedly I haven't scratched beneath mainstream gaming sites). I appreciate the way he turns it into his own, personal metacommentary about the value of game reviewing, too.Wow, excellent video. Really highlights how the game showed "death of the author" in games.
Shambalakan
Member
The Stanley Parable is one of my favorite games of these years and I watched some gameplay of The Beginner's Guide and liked it. but I have a strange question! does it have any scary moment and jumpscares?! Can I play it relax or should I prepare for something in corridors?!
The Stanley Parable is one of my favorite games of these years and I watched some gameplay of The Beginner's Guide and liked it. but I have a strange question! does it have any scary moment and jumpscares?! Can I play it relax or should I prepare for something in corridors?!
No jump scares that I can recall...
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Nothing at all, it's a very relaxing game for the most part.
It took me until after finishing the game to finally start to understand what the game was going for (and the Errant Signal video is a fantastic analysis), but I still loved the ride.
Theories aside, the format of movie-style commentary over short playable tech demos was really cool. I wish we could see something similar, outlining the creation of a real game. (RE3.5)
Theories aside, the format of movie-style commentary over short playable tech demos was really cool. I wish we could see something similar, outlining the creation of a real game. (RE3.5)