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[SLB1904]

Its still a fact that he's literally complaining right now lol. Not me. That #2 guy.

I mean. I would feel bad as well after the huge reception of the show. Regardless is a franchise he helped to create. But corporates gonna corporate. He sold his rights when he sign the contract.

 

[Tripolygon]

Im assuming Bruce had issues with the initial credits as well. He left the studio.

He was also co-director on Uncharted 4 which came after. He said he left because he was burnt out.

I dont even like ND games so I don't care that much. Just saying I know who this guy is. And I know who Amy is. And I smell shady bullshit.

You don't know any of these people. Also the Article that started all this mess was ........... a "gossip" started by IGN for clicks. The writer of the article denounced it.

 

[Zimmy68]

 

[Punished Miku]

He was also co-director on Uncharted 4 which came after. He said he left because he was burnt out.

You don't know any of these people. Also the Article that started all this mess was ........... a "gossip" started by IGN for clicks. The writer of the article denounced it.

Believe what you want. I do not agree.

 

[Neff]

Straley left of his own accord, no? If so he should stop whining

2 was better anyway

 

[ZehDon]

I mean. I would feel bad as well after the huge reception of the show. Regardless is a franchise he helped to create. But corporates gonna corporate. He sold his rights when he sign the contract.

Not really. It's why games have credits that roll when the game is done - this isn't Atari back in the day, there are obligations in place for these kinds of things. Straley can rightfully demand to be credited for his works long after he's left the studio - and derivative works are also covered by these obligations. The key issue is whether or not Straley should be named in the credits on HBO's "The Last of Us". Now, if HBO had simply put "based on the video game by Naughty Dog" and left it at that, I actually wouldn't have much to say. Them's the brakes of working on a group project, your name doesn't always end up in neon. But, Druckmann wanted his writing credit separated from the credit given to the rest of the studio - which is also separate to his writing credit on the show, his producer credit on the show, and his directing credit on the show. And that opens up pandora's box. HBO is now directly saying one of two things: either Druckmann's writing efforts on the game were singular and individual - without input from another - or, they're only adapting Druckmann's contributions and ignoring everything he didn't write. And, based on the well documented history of the game and its development, we know that both of those scenarios 100% false. Straley had enormous input into the story for "The Last of Us", as I've outlined above. There is no "The Last of Us" without Bruce Straley. So, if Druckmann wants his name in neon, Straley get's his name in neon too, because Druckmann didn't do it alone. Welcome to the world of obligated crediting. As I said in my previous post, "history is written by the victors", and Druckmann runs Naughty Dog now.

 

[bitbydeath]

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Now, I'm no Naughty Dog apologist, but a man who is described in fourteen paragraphs as being "invested in a collaborative environment," and whom "doesn't want his name everywhere," is pretty quick to hop on the notice me senpai train about his name missing.

"I don't want my name out there.........for anything that pulls under 4 million viewers,"

But also, Druckman being Druckman. Very obviously playing the career advancement game and plowing over anyone with the audacity to stand in his path, and being very bad at pretending that's not his grand scheme.

Regardless, if Straley is mad enough, he can FORE! Druckman in the head with that six ton reddit post in an act of poetic justice.

 

[Varteras]

Nope. He was one of THE creators. Look up the interviews on TLOU and see how they were both given a team by ND to go off and do their own thing after Uncharted 2. But initially it was just them two coming up with various different ideas.

He was A creator. Not THE. He doesn't own it. He walked away from it. He doesn't get perpetual credit for something that he didn't come up with on his own, worked on one project for, and hasn't touched in a long while. He's not Lucas with Star Wars, Martin with Game of Thrones, or Tolkein with Lord of the Rings.

Now, I'm no Naughty Dog apologist, but a man who is described in fourteen paragraphs as being "invested in a collaborative environment," and whom "doesn't want his name everywhere," is pretty quick to hop on the notice me senpai train about his name missing.

"I don't want my name out there.........for anything that pulls under 4 million viewers,"

But also, Druckman being Druckman. Very obviously playing the career advancement game and plowing over anyone with the audacity to stand in his path, and being very bad at pretending that's not his grand scheme.

Regardless, if Straley is mad enough, he can FORE! Druckman in the head with that six ton reddit post in an act of poetic justice.

I wonder how upset he would be to not see his name in there if the show was getting bad reviews.

 

[Topher]

The sole writer credit for the game is credited to Neil in the game.

Nobody gets credited as creator because there are hundreds of people who created the game. Neil gets to be credited because he is the sole writer and his work is what is being adapted on the pages of the show and he is a co-writer for some episodes. He is also a producer on the show as well as a director on the show.

The entire Naughty Dog Studio gets credited as the original creators of the IP

That actually clarifies a lot. I tried to find the writing credits in the game but was expecting it to be a lot higher up than it was.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

People like Bruce and and David Jaffe are salty.

They aren't getting those ducketts and they are mad about it.

 

[ZehDon]

He was A creator. Not THE. He doesn't own it. He walked away from it. He doesn't get perpetual credit for something that he didn't come up with on his own, worked on one project for, and hasn't touched in a long while...

Lol, actually he does. Bruce Straley was one of the two creators of "The Last of Us". Until the IP enters public domain, Straley gets credited on everything "TLOU" as one of the creators. There's a reason "The Batman" lists "based on characters created by..." eighty years later.

 

[Varteras]

Lol, actually he does. Bruce Straley was one of the two creators of "The Last of Us". Until the IP enters public domain, Straley gets credited on everything "TLOU" as one of the creators. There's a reason "The Batman" lists "based on characters created by..." eighty years later.

Well apparently not because he wasn't credited for it.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

He was A creator. Not THE. He doesn't own it. He walked away from it. He doesn't get perpetual credit for something that he didn't come up with on his own, worked on one project for, and hasn't touched in a long while. He's not Lucas with Star Wars, Martin with Game of Thrones, or Tolkein with Lord of the Rings.


I wonder how upset he would be to not see his name in there if the show was getting bad reviews.

Exactly. Whether this shit affected him in a super profound way or not, your front facing side should never show cracks in a public forum of discussion, be that GAF, Twitter, the deli. I love the guy's contributions, and respect him immensely, but the whole thing comes across like a jaded ex lover spat. You don't look well adjusted, like you've moved on, and worst of all, clinging to past work indicates a longing for it, as if what you're doing isn't a point of pride, but a point of necessity, second best option. Be proud of your castle, even if it's made of shit. People will notice this, even if they can't put words to the observation.

 

[Topher]

Lol, actually he does. Bruce Straley was one of the two creators of "The Last of Us". Until the IP enters public domain, Straley gets credited on everything "TLOU" as one of the creators. There's a reason "The Batman" lists "based on characters created by..." eighty years later.

The thing is that I didn't catch at first is that no one person is being credited as the "creator". Tripolygon 's post made me realize that. Druckmann is correctly being credited as the writer of TLOU and that is all. Also, since this is a TV show, they only have a minute and a half or so for credits whereas movies can go on forever. But I agree with you that if anyone is credited with creating TLOU then it should be both Druckmann and Straley.

 

[Iced Arcade]

I don’t remember Amy Hennig crying about not being credited in the Uncharted movie that made $400 million

not siding with bruce BUT she didn't need to cry

Uncharted 4 credits include a heartfelt moment of thanks to Amy Hennig

Despite rumors surrounding the creative director’s departure from Naughty Dog, Hennig receives special treatment in the series’ send-off

www.polygon.com

 

[Varteras]

Exactly. Whether this shit affected him in a super profound way or not, your front facing side should never show cracks in a public forum of discussion, be that GAF, Twitter, the deli. I love the guy's contributions, and respect him immensely, but the whole thing comes across like a jaded ex lover spat. You don't look well adjusted, like you've moved on, and worst of all, clinging to past work indicates a longing for it, as if what you're doing isn't a point of pride, but a point of necessity, second best option. Be proud of your castle, even if it's made of shit. People will notice this, even if they can't put words to the observation.

And even more, the man needs to show some receipts for what he claims is his contribution. Even if it was Straley and Druckmann to start going half and half on ideas, how many, in the end, were Straley's that were used? And when other people got involved, how many more of his ideas were thrown out or so heavily altered you could barely call it his anymore? There is apparently a claim that one character was his. If that is true, credit the man with that. Credit given where it is due. But if none of his original ideas were used and he ultimately just contributed to the story where he went, "Wait! What if instead of one Clicker in this scene... there were TWO!" then no. The man doesn't get shit. No one was credited as the creator of TLOU and with Druckmann being a writer. So as of right now his claim is a bit dubious. We have no concrete information that confirms he really came up with anything substantial that stuck in the final product. Again, if he really did create something unique for the story, then he has an argument. But if pretty much none of it really ended up being his and he just focused on gameplay while the writer(s) came up with all the unique things, then he needs to move on like he did years ago.

 

[damidu]

dude had to ask for a writing credit at first game, if he had any meaningful contribution to the story. that ship sailed 10 years ago.
his gameplay contributions don’t mean anything for a tv show.

probably bit salty that his departure didn’t had any effect to the franchise

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

not siding with bruce BUT she didn't need to cry

Uncharted 4 credits include a heartfelt moment of thanks to Amy Hennig

Despite rumors surrounding the creative director’s departure from Naughty Dog, Hennig receives special treatment in the series’ send-off

www.polygon.com

They never said she was the co-creator of Uncharted

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Speaking of the Uncharted Movie
That reminds me when one of the original Director/Writers for the Uncharted Movie with Ryan Reynolds called Druckmann a jerkoff and hitchhiker

Oh damn, had to look this up as I hadn't heard about it.

Ex-Uncharted writer calls “The Last Of Us Part 2” director a "jerkoff"

An ex-writer for the troubled Uncharted movie has called The Last Of Us Part 2’s director Neil Druckmann a “jerkoff” and “hitchhiker”. The Last Of...

www.hitc.com

 

[ZehDon]

Well apparently not because he wasn't credited for it.

Actually, it is - hence Straley's comments. Of course, it's up to an individual to chase their credits if they're not given - if Straley wants to pursue it, he has grounds to do so, but it's up to him if its worth the legal fees.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Druckmann is a hack. Hasn’t made a good game by himself. He should go to Hollywood and make TV series.

 

[kyliethicc]

Bruce Straley, the game director for The Last of Us, has revealed his concern about a lack of credit for his work on the game’s world that was adapted for the HBO show. In an interview, he says that there’s an “argument for unionization [for] someone who was part of the co-creation of that world.” Straley is not included in the credits for The Last of Us HBO show, with the official writing credits going to Neil Druckmann and Craig Mazin.

Straley and Druckmann’s relationship is still “strained”​

In an in-depth piece by the Los Angeles Times, Straley suggests that unions in the video game industry might help in giving creators the credit they deserve:


Per the LA Times, both HBO and Sony have declined to comment on his statement.

While Straley is only credited as the game director for The Last of Us, the article points out that he is “one of its key world builders” and that Druckmann gives credit to Straley for fleshing out the character for Bill (who actor Nick Offerman will play in the show). Straley also joined Druckmann to accept the award for Best Narrative at GDC 2014, so it looks like the story for the original game would not be possible without Straley’s work.

While accreditation and compensation are two separate issues, his statement continues what the piece calls a “strained” relationship between Straley and Druckmann. Straley surprisingly left Naughty Dog in 2017 in part due to burnout and, after a nearly five-year hiatus, has started a new studio called Wildflower Interactive. In September 2022, he responded to a user suggesting that Druckmann changed the credits for The Last of Us Part 1 due to his hubris.

The post The Last of Us Game Director Calls for Unionization After HBO Credits Snub appeared first on PlayStation LifeStyle.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/last-us-game-director-calls-202405469.html


For those unfamiliar with the role Straley had in creating this world, its characters and the story, this summary goes super in-depth (including notions of developers citing his departure from the studio as a reason for their own departure)

Spoiler

Worth to note that, with the exception of this one tweet:

Straley never participated in any way to the drama and polemics surrounding Part II. The contrary is true, in fact.

Spoiler

wow this is seriously misleading and inaccurate


1 - Straley doesn't call for unionization, he says maybe

“Maybe we need unions in the video game industry to be able to protect creators.”


2 - the article does not say Straley's relationship with Druckmann is strained. It says his relationship with Sony is.

"Straley’s relationship with Sony and Naughty Dog has since become strained."


3 - its part of a much more positive and retrospective interview he did with the LA Times with quotes from him and Neil Druckmann and others about The Last of Us and how it was made.

How ‘The Last of Us’ changed gaming, strained relationships and spawned an empire

We trace the history of Naughty Dog's pop culture phenomenon, from the video game's 2013 debut to its adaptation as an HBO series 10 years later.

www.latimes.com

 

[Amiga]

Straley: ..I handle gameplay and, moment-to-moment, what's happening in the game.

Precisely what went wrong with part 2.

The mood of the world and tension was what made the 1st game great. By story alone Telltale's Walking Dead is much better.

 

[kyliethicc]

i didn't knew that.

i remember Bruce being the counterweight to Drunkman's lunacy in TLoU.

Yep, I remebered correctly,



The funny thing is that Bruce is no longer following Neil on Twitter.

the funny thing is now Bruce Straley says he thinks they should have made The Last of Us darker

Still, Straley remains a believer in the relevance of “The Last of Us.” If anything, recent history has him thinking the game could have been even darker.

“We weren’t real enough about the level of anxiety and tension that all of the characters would have had in that world,” Straley says. “If you go back to those early days of the pandemic — we’re not even talking about infected breaking through your front window and chewing your face off; this is just the news that there’s the possibility that you could get horribly ill, possibly die from this virus — there’s so much trauma from living through that, that I think the world of ‘The Last of Us’ would have had way more broken characters. I think people hold it together pretty well for the world that we put them in, compared to what I know about living through a pandemic.”

Precisely what went wrong with part 2.

The mood of the world and tension was what made the 1st game great. By story alone Telltale's Walking Dead is much better.

Part 2's gameplay is so much better than Part 1 its not even funny

 

[damidu]

Actually, it is - hence Straley's comments. Of course, it's up to an individual to chase their credits if they're not given - if Straley wants to pursue it, he has grounds to do so, but it's up to him if its worth the legal fees.

tales from your ass, i assume

 

[Topher]

tales from your ass, i assume

 

[damidu]

right, i follow along with the fiction of
“hbo is legally obligated to credit bruce individually but decided to not do. because reasons”

 

[Topher]

right, i follow along with the fiction of
“hbo is legally obligated to credit bruce individually but decided to not do. because reasons”

That would be a much better argument than "tales from your ass", don't you think?

 

[ZehDon]

right, i follow along with the fiction of
“hbo is legally obligated to credit bruce individually but decided to not do. because reasons”

... you're aware that credit disputes happen literally all of the time in entertainment, right? Typically, for screen credits, this is handled by the various guilds. Straley's comment about Unions is because there is no Union or Guild for him to take this kind of grievence to. Credit disputes are rarely mallice on the part of studios, funnily enough. They usually come about because creative Party A mis-represented their efforts to financier/publisher Party C, leaving creative Party B out. So, Party C simply credits Party A, entirely not realising they cut out Party B until Party B tells them so. In this case, HBO put Druckmann's writing credit separate to Naughty Dog's credit because they were requested to do so. They did not put Straley's credit in because no one requested it be added. Given that Druckmann runs Naughty Dog, and is now solely credited for "The Last of Us" as a result, Druckmann is Party A, Straley is Party B, and HBO is Party C. Frankly, I doubt HBO has the first fucking clue who did what for the game, they just put the credits in like Druckmann/Naughty Dog told them to.

 

[TGO]

Oh damn, had to look this up as I hadn't heard about it.

Ex-Uncharted writer calls “The Last Of Us Part 2” director a "jerkoff"

An ex-writer for the troubled Uncharted movie has called The Last Of Us Part 2’s director Neil Druckmann a “jerkoff” and “hitchhiker”. The Last Of...

www.hitc.com

Around the 20min mark

Part 2's gameplay is so much better than Part 1 its not even funny

As it should be, it was created by the same team that did the gameplay, clearly they would improve upon it.
But I'm replaying TLOUPT1 now which I haven't played since the Remaster and I'm totally engrossed into it, it's funny you leave something for so long some parts feels new but familiar.
But TLOUPT2?
For all it's gameplay enhancements, it felt like a chore to get through.
By chapter 3 I was looking on GAF more then actually progressing through the game.
Just multiple 20 minutes of Ellie & Abby just standing there while I browsed GAF.
And in those type of games that really shouldn't happen.
I'm planning to give it another go when I finish TLOUPT1.
But it literally felt like most modern sequels to great older films (minus TOP GUN Maverick )

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yeah no shit. Which is why he argues for a union. Now you've caught up to post #1 in this thread. That's literally what he is saying. He created enough of it that he is feeling robbed.

Argues for a union when Sony, when the corportation took all the huge risks in terms of money?

The guy was basically in a dream job, had the talent and resources of hundreds of people, to create state of the art gaming productions. And he got paid for it. End of story.

What does a union solve? They will just go after talent that's not in a union. Bruce isn't THAT special of a snowflake. The hundreds of millions at risk that make ND games possible are.

 

[Jennings]

I have an idea. If you want to be credited for a TV series, try working on a TV series.

 

[Punished Miku]

Bruce isn't THAT special of a snowflake. The hundreds of millions at risk that make ND games possible are.

This is literally the exact opposite argument you guys make when talking about MS and their money. As far as a union pros and cons, that's a fight for developers to take on if they want. Film did it. Writers did it. Not my fight. You can lecture Bruce if you want on Twitter for having to audacity to feel slighted.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This is literally the exact opposite argument you guys make when talking about MS and their money. As far as a union pros and cons, that's a fight for developers to take on if they want. Film did it. Writers did it. Not my fight. You can lecture Bruce if you want on Twitter for having to audacity to feel slighted.

Not sure what you mean by "you guys" but Microsoft's problem ISN'T that they don't have talented people, it's just that their leadership all the way up to the top is terrible. It's management's job to get the best out of their teams/talent.

I don't give a shit about lecturing to him on twitter, nor do I feel slighted by any of his opinons. No idea why you think that I do.

 

[Warablo]

Lot of bad blood around Neil.

In order to rise in the ranks like he did, you gotta get dirty.

 

[McCarth]

Lot of bad blood around Neil.

More like a lot of people who wish they had the success that he has seen, and aren’t taking it well. They probably should’ve been better then.

 

[kiphalfton]

Amy and Bruce left and Druckmann rises.
Don't know why we pretend to ignore what really happened just because it's ND.

Imagine being Bruce, and having to deal with Druckmann. I can only imagine Druckmann being a pretentious upstart worm gunning for his seat.

Well, Amy was pushed out by Bruce and Druckmann no matter how much they try to deny it.

Bruce left on his own accord but who knows what kind of mind games neil was playing with him lmao. Their relationship is strained according to Bruce so there was definitely bad blood between the two.

Neil's been playing 4D chess all this time. He was a lowly programmer in 2007. In 15 years he's the Co-President of Naughty Dog. Absolutely insane meteoric rise this.

Probably the biggest ass kisser in the industry.

 

[LaughingStock]

The only thing I know is that the first game is good and the second one is not.

 

[cash_longfellow]

 

[DeepEnigma]

It says based on the game made by Naughty Dog. The game wasn't created by 2 people.

Yep.

 

[saintjules]

I was thinking I heard something similar before.

https://www.dualshockers.com/god-of-war-ragnarok-composer-left-out-credits/

 

[Amiga]

Part 2's gameplay is so much better than Part 1 its not even funny

How is this a response to my point: "The mood of the world and tension was what made the 1st game great".

 

[DeepEnigma]

Here are the differences in relevant credits between Uncharted and The Last of Us.

Difference is, Neil is a writer on the show as well as the game.

The game credits are identical between both.

Nobody from ND was a writer on the Uncharted movie.

 

[EruditeHobo]

HBO probably doesn't even know who Bruce is. The point is he feels wronged by having zero acknowledgment or payment after literally being the 2nd most important guy on the game. Im done arguing with you guys. This is not some anonymous source lol. Its the number 2 guy on the game lol.

This is not that complicated, I'm happy to lay it out for you -- Neil Druckmann wrote The Last of Us. He literally has that credit. That's why that credit appeared in the HBO show, because Neil Druckmann WORKS on the HBO show and that credit is specific information to the audience. It tells the people that don't know that THIS guy who is co-runner and EP on this series... he ALSO wrote the original video game. That's what it means, and that's all it means. It tells people "this isn't just based on a video game, it's not just some property we acquired... but one of the original guys who has THE writing credit on the video game, he's here working on this show, too!"

In other words, there's no legal or artistic reason to credit Staley for TLOU, the show. Period.

This is pretty simple stuff, but I guess people just really aggressively don't know how these things work.

 

[Punished Miku]

This is not that complicated, I'm happy to lay it out for you -- Neil Druckmann wrote The Last of Us. He literally has that credit. That's why that credit appeared in the HBO show, because Neil Druckmann WORKS on the HBO show and that credit is specific information to the audience. It tells the people that don't know that THIS guy who is co-runner and EP on this series... he ALSO wrote the original video game. That's what it means, and that's all it means. It tells people "this isn't just based on a video game, it's not just some property we acquired... but one of the original guys who has THE writing credit on the video game, he's here working on this show, too!"

In other words, there's no legal or artistic reason to credit Staley for TLOU, the show. Period.

This is pretty simple stuff, but I guess people just really aggressively don't know how these things work.

Lay it out for Bruce. Apparently you are the expert.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Lay it out for Bruce. Apparently you are the expert.

I just did, for the both of you, since it's clear you both don't really know what you're talking about.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is not that complicated, I'm happy to lay it out for you -- Neil Druckmann wrote The Last of Us. He literally has that credit. That's why that credit appeared in the HBO show, because Neil Druckmann WORKS on the HBO show and that credit is specific information to the audience. It tells the people that don't know that THIS guy who is co-runner and EP on this series... he ALSO wrote the original video game. That's what it means, and that's all it means. It tells people "this isn't just based on a video game, it's not just some property we acquired... but one of the original guys who has THE writing credit on the video game, he's here working on this show, too!"

In other words, there's no legal or artistic reason to credit Staley for TLOU, the show. Period.

This is pretty simple stuff, but I guess people just really aggressively don't know how these things work.

Exactly this. Rumor has it episode 2 this weekend was directed by Neil as well.

Does Bruce want director credit for that one too?

 

[bender]

Does Bruce want director credit for that one too?

Let me channel my inner Bruce.

Sorry, wrong Bruce. Let's try again:

 

[Slothbeing1209]

Wtf why would him want credit on the show lmao. Salty?

He completed his job in tlou, was compensated AND recognized, and thats it.

I'll be damned if my ex came to me for money after the relationship ended .