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[Schnauzer]

This honestly looks like the first GPU cycle in a long time I avoid. I will more then likely stick with my $1,300 launch 4090 and remain happy.

 

[FingerBang]

I just watched the video. He clearly explains that NVIDIA has done this before where they are planning higher prices pre-release, then when they see the reaction from the public they change their mind at the last minute or even just after launch. He gave examples of where that's happened in the past. Makes sense that this could be the case again this time. Jensen has consistently pushed the pricing past the point of reasonable and only backed off when gamers are very negative.

The price listed for the 5090 has been expected by just about everybody. The 4090 was crazy expensive, yet it still seemed to sell more than most of us thought it would. The price for the 5080 is what seems so out of whack. They had a tough time selling the 4080 at $1200 and had to drop it down to $1k. I don't see them getting many takers at $1,500, even if the performance is better than we expect at half the specs of the 5090. The target audience for the 5080 will be 3000 series owners who skipped the 4000 series. I don't think many 3080/3080 Ti owners are going to be in for that price. Especially not with 16GB of RAM.

People have a hate boner for the guy. He did the same for the 4080 Super and then confirmed the price at $999. He was spot on, has legit sources, and has been absolutely right most of the time.

He will confirm the price when it's closer to release. He knows what Nvidia partners know at the moment. I think Nvidia expects these leaks so that they can look good by releasing the product at $1999.

I'm curious to see how they will justify that price hike over the 4090.

 

[rm082e]

People have a hate boner for the guy. He did the same for the 4080 Super and then confirmed the price at $999. He was spot on, has legit sources, and has been absolutely right most of the time.

He will confirm the price when it's closer to release. He knows what Nvidia partners know at the moment. I think Nvidia expects these leaks so that they can look good by releasing the product at $1999.

Sounds right to me.

I'm curious to see how they will justify that price hike over the 4090.

Ridiculous marketing spin with the unspoken undertone: "We have no competition at this performance tier, so pay up or get left behind."

 

[shamoomoo]

Did you read the post I was replying to? It's about upgrading a PC vs getting a Pro. If you have a PC that you can upgrade at the moment, most PC gamers would go for a more powerful GPU like a 4070S/4070 Ti instead of buying a Pro. The appeal of the Pro dies because those GPUs are faster than a PS5 Pro's GPU and that upgraded PC would generally perform better. So why would a PC gamer opt to pay $700 for a weaker machine?

The Pro would make a lot more sense for someone considering PC gaming. It's either build a new machine for $900-1000 that matches the Pro or get a Pro for $700. For someone upgrading, it doesn't even make sense because it's effectively a downgrade.

I'm simply saying,if the PS5 Pro APU was a discreet component in the PC space minus the storage system, controls/mouse or any other part,you are comparing one component to basically 75% of a functioning computer if the Pro was that.


Let's say for an arguments sake that the Pro's APU also got a CPU upgrade and still cost $750,the biggest expense would be the GPU. IDK the price of the base PS5,but if the base price of the PS5 is $500,the upgrade would only be $250 for the GPU alone if components could be swapped out.

 

[Gaiff]

I'm simply saying,if the PS5 Pro APU was a discreet component in the PC space minus the storage system, controls/mouse or any other part,you are comparing one component to basically 75% of a functioning computer if the Pro was that.

Yes, because we are comparing an existing PC you can upgrade vs a buying a PS5 Pro, duh.

Let's say for an arguments sake that the Pro's APU also got a CPU upgrade and still cost $750,the biggest expense would be the GPU. IDK the price of the base PS5,but if the base price of the PS5 is $500,the upgrade would only be $250 for the GPU alone if components could be swapped out.

Well, it didn't get a CPU upgrade. The question is, what is more advantageous to a PC gamer who already owns a PC, buying a PS5 Pro or upgrading their GPU for $700? A $700 GPU will smoke the Pro. If I could just keep my PS5 and swap out the GPU for the Pro's GPU for $200, then that'd be a different story.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

My performance predictions
5090 - 100%
5080 - 76%
4090 74%
5070 - 58%
4080 - 56%
4070 - 36%
5060TI - 36%

That’s cute. The 5080 won’t be getting 74%. You clearly haven’t looked at specs. It has pretty much half the specs.

The only way that might happen is if the 5090 is super CPU bottlenecks.

 

[RavenSan]

I've got a 3070 right now, and figured I'd upgrade to the 50 series, but seeing some of these guesses at pricing, it's just insane. Hopefully everyone is wrong, haha.

 

[Elios83]

5090 will cost 2000+$ and the 5070 will be gimped with great design decisions like 12GB of memory.
We already know how nVidia acts on the market.

 

[BennyBlanco]

i ask you this, PC bros who already have modern rigs: what is around the corner that will be graphically demanding that you want to play?

I am very curious what game they will use to market this. They used Witcher 3 a few times, and CP2077 a few times. What game will they make love to this time? Wukong? Alan Wake 2?

 

[Hohenheim]

i ask you this, PC bros who already have modern rigs: what is around the corner that will be graphically demanding that you want to play?

I am very curious what game they will use to market this. They used Witcher 3 a few times, and CP2077 a few times. What game will they make love to this time? Wukong? Alan Wake 2?

Maybe Gears 6?

 

[StereoVsn]

i ask you this, PC bros who already have modern rigs: what is around the corner that will be graphically demanding that you want to play?

I am very curious what game they will use to market this. They used Witcher 3 a few times, and CP2077 a few times. What game will they make love to this time? Wukong? Alan Wake 2?

Good question. I just want to see some of the recent titles at over 100+ FPS at 4K and DLSS Quality.

But there isn’t necessarily any particular showcase title I can think of.

Ooh, Outlaws and AC Shadows!

 

[Mister Wolf]

i ask you this, PC bros who already have modern rigs: what is around the corner that will be graphically demanding that you want to play?

I am very curious what game they will use to market this. They used Witcher 3 a few times, and CP2077 a few times. What game will they make love to this time? Wukong? Alan Wake 2?

Indiana Jones is going to have Full Pathtracing like Wukong and Cyberpunk. I think Avowed will be a lot better looking with Hardware Lumen which is presume they are going to make available based on the Nvidia Trailer.



Raytraced lighting even Hardware Lumen is a performance hog. People are finding that out with Silent Hill 2 on PC.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Indiana Jones is going to have Full Pathtracing like Wukong and Cyberpunk. I think Avowed will be a lot better looking with Hardware Lumen which is presume they are going to make available based on the Nvidia Trailer.



Raytraced lighting even Hardware Lumen is a performance hog. People are finding that out with Silent Hill 2 on PC.

Maybe it’s just me. Cyberpunk hype was so crazy I was ready to hand over whatever sweet Jensen.

 

[FingerBang]

Ridiculous marketing spin with the unspoken undertone: "We have no competition at this performance tier, so pay up or get left behind."

The problem is that regardless of how impressive the 5090 is compared to the 4090, the rest of the lineup will lag in performance. The 5080, in its initial configuration, is apparently going to beat the 4090 by a little margin (and I don't believe that will be true in all cases, looking at the specs), but the generational improvement of all the other cards will probably be in what, 15-20%? Games won't be able to push forward much, apart from ray tracing/path tracing, if the cards people actually buy won't be able to run those games.

So, apart from the "GIVE MOAR PERFORMANCE," what will we gain from a monstrous 5090 when the 4090 is already destroying everything at 4K/120hz, and you can easily lower the resolution to 1440p to keep destroying everything? I don't know. The jump from the 3080 to the 4090 made a ton of sense to me, and I did not regret it. DLSS3 did not affect my decision. I'm genuinely curious to see what the spin will be on this generation's lack of performance.

 

[Danny22]

Is this thread worthy? Guessing the next locked in feature?

Nvidia CEO had this to say about upcoming DLSS 'in the future, we'll even generate textures and objects, and the objects can be of lower quality and we can (upscale to) make them look better.'

 

[sendit]

No, Sony actually positioned the Pro horribly. If someone merely wants to upgrade their PC, they will generally upgrade their GPU because even a modest CPU runs games well these days. If you have a PC and ~$700 to spare, you take the $700 GPU (4070S-4070 Ti) over the Pro 100% of the time.

The Pro might convince people who were considering building a PC to stick to console but even then, the 4070 is $550 and a whole system built around it should cost $900-1000. The value proposition of the Pro doesn’t look that appealing even in that situation.

I think it’s clear as day that Sony realizes that PC and consoles are separate markets and that they won’t convince most PC users to move to consoles, so price isn’t a huge factor for those customers. They might as well make bank off the back of hardcore console enthusiasts with a $700 machine.

Agreed. That's probably why such a niche product is selling well.

With that said, why would you buy a 4070 to have an equivalent experience as a PS5 Pro? That isn't what PC gaming is about.

 

[Thebonehead]

i ask you this, PC bros who already have modern rigs: what is around the corner that will be graphically demanding that you want to play?

I am very curious what game they will use to market this. They used Witcher 3 a few times, and CP2077 a few times. What game will they make love to this time? Wukong? Alan Wake 2?

FS2024 and VR my man.

With my 4099 I have to adjust the settings to get suitable smooth frames which require reprojection already with dlss and fresher generation.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If someone merely wants to upgrade their PC

Yah they are called dedicated PC gamers, not someone “on the fence about building a brand new gaming PC from scratch or just getting a Pro” of which there is a wide range of potential audiences that aren’t nearly as dedicated as this crowd believes.

The PC gamer bro that is PC or bust (regardless of how powerful their rig is) - aka PC fanboys, aren’t the target competing audience

PS5 Pro is obviously niche, but it’s far more mainstream than these enthusiast level PC GPUs costing thousands of dollars are, which is the only segment of the market that can provide some level of semi significant increase over what the PRO offers for gaming

So no, the Pro isn’t weakly positioned. Its positioned exactly where its intended

 

[Tarnpanzer]

i ask you this, PC bros who already have modern rigs: what is around the corner that will be graphically demanding that you want to play?

Just in general to have higher framerates in already very demanding games:

UE5-games in general, CP2077, AW2, Control(with Raytracing Mod)

I will update day one from my 4090 to the 5090.

 

[ArtHands]

Hopefully PS6 Pro will be on par with at least the 5070

 

[Gaiff]

So no, the Pro isn’t weakly positioned. Its positioned exactly where its intended

Context matters? I was replying to a poster that said the Pro was well positioned to reach PC gamers.

but I think Sony has smartly positioned the PS5 Pro as a value buy for people considering upgrading their PCs,

It isn’t. Too weak to entice the hardcore crowd and too expensive to entice the budget conscious.

He said the Pro is a good option for those looking to upgrade. It’s actually an awful option.

Maybe read property next time?

Agreed. That's probably why such a niche product is selling well.

Based on what?

With that said, why would you buy a 4070 to have an equivalent experience as a PS5 Pro? That isn't what PC gaming is about.

You wouldn’t. I was answering the claim that the Pro is smartly positioned for PC gamers looking to upgrade their PCs.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Context matters? I was replying to a poster that said the Pro was well positioned to reach PC gamers. It isn’t. Too weak to entice the hardcore crowd and too expensive to entice the budget conscious.

He said the Pro is a good option for those looking to upgrade. It’s actually an awful option.

Maybe read property next time?

I did read. His point was that most PC gamers do not have a monster rig, and that those with much more modest configs (a large percent of their user base) may be enticed to get a Pro rather than needing to considerably upgrade many components (if not a whole new rebuild) for their PC

This goes for the base PS5 too though, if their hardware is old enough

It’s possible but it’s still only a few million potentially for the PS5 pro specifically, which is still significant relative to the number of gamers with extremely high end machines

 

[Gaiff]

I did read. His point was that most PC gamers do not have a monster rig, and that those with much more modest configs (a large percent of their user base) may be enticed to get a Pro rather than needing to considerably upgrade many components (if not a whole new rebuild) for their PC

Then how did you come to the conclusion that a $700 console is "smartly positioned" to those people when a mere GPU upgrade would be $550? You don’t need a top-class CPU or blazing fast memory for mid-range gaming.

This goes for the base PS5 too though, if their hardware is old enough

It’s possible but it’s still only a few million potentially for the PS5 pro specifically, which is still significant relative to the number of gamers with extremely high end machines

It’s intended for hardcore console gamers who want the best experience. If it were even slightly intended for PC gamers, the price would have been much more attractive. So you’re correct that it’s priced where it’s intended (how could it not be?), and that place is not to entice PC gamers.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Then how did you come to the conclusion that a $700 console is "smartly positioned" to those people when a mere GPU upgrade would be $550? You don’t need a top-class CPU or blazing fast memory for mid-range gaming.

It’s intended for hardcore console gamers who want the best experience. If it were even slightly intended for PC gamers, the price would have been much more attractive. So you’re correct that it’s price where it’s intended (how could it not be?), and that place is not to entice PC gamers.

$700 pro is a lot more attractive pricing wise than something most would want to spend more then double on if buying themselves with discrete components

I am not talking about a mere GPU upgrade and I don’t believe the OP you are replying to was either

 

[Gaiff]

$700 pro is a lot more attractive pricing wise than something most would want to spend more then double on if buying themselves with discrete components

They don’t need to spend anywhere near double. The RTX 4070 is $550. The rest of the PC won’t cost you $850 when you already got the most expensive part covered. Is a $700 console more attractive to a PC gamer than an equivalent $900-1000 PC? Hell no.

I am not talking about a mere GPU upgrade and I don’t believe the OP you are replying to was either

but I think Sony has smartly positioned the PS5 Pro as a value buy for people considering upgrading their PCs,

What do you think "upgrading their PCs” entails? That they have a rig to from the year 2017 with the entire computer out of date, which just means building a new one? Or that they merely have parts that are holding it back and thus need to "upgrade it"? I even said that the Pro would work better for those considering building a new rig, which the post I replied to did not specify. It talked explicitly about upgrading an existing one. The Pro is an awful alternative for those people.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They don’t need to spend anywhere near double. The RTX 4070 is $550. The rest of the PC won’t cost you $850 when you already got the most expensive part covered. Is a $700 console more attractive to a PC gamer than an equivalent $900-1000 PC? Hell no.

but I think Sony has smartly positioned the PS5 Pro as a value buy for people considering upgrading their PCs,

What do you think "upgrading their PCs” entails? That they have a rig to from the year 2017 with the entire computer out of date, which just means building a new one? Or that they merely have parts that are holding it back and thus need to "upgrade it"? I even said that the Pro would work better for those considering building a new rig, which the post I replied to did not specify. It talked explicitly about upgrading an existing one. The Pro is an awful alternative for those people.

Yes, I do consider upgrading their PC to include complete rebuilds. Not literally upgrading just a single component

And nobody is going to pay $900 for a PC rebuild that skimps on every single component and doesn’t consider the cost of assembly time, it just limits what they can do in the future which would necessitate quicker complete rebuilds

 

[Zathalus]

Most PC gamers looking to upgrade their PC don't even consider the PS5 Pro an option. Why would they? It's not a PC.

 

[Gaiff]

Yes, I do consider upgrading their PC to include complete rebuilds. Not literally upgrading just a single component

Then you’re adding variables to the question that are not there. If you’re changing the entire rig, you’re not upgrading your PC…you’re building a new one.

And nobody is going to pay $900 for a PC rebuild that skimps on every single component and doesn’t consider the cost of assembly time, it just limits what they can do in the future which would necessitate quicker complete rebuilds

A $900 won’t skimp on every component at all. It will get you a quality computer. The 5700X3D right now, which is a very good CPU, is a mere $188. There's also a good RTX 4070 selling for $530. You still have $180-280 for the other components. You won't land anywhere near $1400 unless you go for high-end pieces, but why would you get a beastly motherboard or crazy fast memory for a mid-tier machine? You'll buy quality mid-range parts.

As I said, the Pro is not an attractive option for PC gamers. It's far too pricey and not powerful enough. It's meant for enthusiast console gamers.

Most PC gamers looking to upgrade their PC don't even consider the PS5 Pro an option. Why would they? It's not a PC.

Especially not at such a high price point.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

As I said, the Pro is not an attractive option for PC gamers. It's far too pricey and not powerful enough. It's meant for enthusiast console gamers.

Maybe not for dedicated PC gamers (just like PC is not an attractive option for dedicated console gamers) but for incidental PC gamers (game on an older weak PC because they owned one for work or school and it introduced them to gaming)? I can see it being an attractive option

 

[Gaiff]

Maybe not for dedicated PC gamers, but for incidental PC gamers (game on an older weak PC because they owned one for work or school and it introduced them to gaming)? I can see that

Those would have cheapass laptops which cannot be upgraded most of the time. I said this would make more sense for them, but by and large, the Pro is not moving the needle for the majority. If it were $500 or even $600 with a disc drive? This would be an insane deal and nothing could come even remotely close for a similar price.

I got one because I’m among those hardcore console gamers (and PC gamers), but I’m the minority.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If it were $500 or even $600 with a disc drive? This would be an insane deal and nothing could come even remotely close for a similar price.

Not really, you’re making out a $100 difference in price to be a game changer when it’s really not, when we are talking about the gap in PC components being much larger

You wouldn’t see some mass exodus and adoption from the PC side if it were priced there either

I’m not fundamentally disagreeing with you that it’s not going to move the needle, but I do think there exists some market on the PC side that’s not an enthusiast that would consider the Pro more attractive than getting a new PC

 

[Gaiff]

Not really, you’re making out a $100 difference in price to be a game changer when it’s really not, when we are talking about the gap in PC components being much larger

I said with a disc drive. That’s closer to a $180-280 difference. I’d argue that yes, this is a game changer.

You wouldn’t see some mass exodus and adoption from the PC side if it were priced there either

I don’t think so either. You’d likely just get more console gamers upgrading. PC and consoles tend to be separate markets with a bit of overlap. However, they’re not entirely separate and an expensive console is a barrier for those wanting a cheap and decently powerful machine.

I’m not fundamentally disagreeing with you that it’s not going to move the needle, but I do think there exists some market on the PC side that’s not an enthusiast that would consider the Pro more attractive than getting a new PC

There exists a bit of everything. I think this crowd is fairly insignificant and would just get a regular $450 PS5 instead.

 

[SolidQ]

 

[MrJangles]

I have a 7900xt earmarked for purchase next month. Is there any point holding out for a 5070 (80/90 are way out of my price range). A quick google suggests it'll be around €700-750 (the 7900xt will cost me around the same price) and may only have 12gb of vram. I don't give a shit about ray tracing btw and I'll be gaming at 1440p.

 

[SolidQ]

Is there any point holding out for a 5070

5070 won't be much faster, than 7900XT. 5070 will compete with 8700XT

 

[hinch7]

I have a 7900xt earmarked for purchase next month. Is there any point holding out for a 5070 (80/90 are way out of my price range). A quick google suggests it'll be around €700-750 (the 7900xt will cost me around the same price) and may only have 12gb of vram. I don't give a shit about ray tracing btw and I'll be gaming at 1440p.

100% wait. Lots of new releases next year. Plus with FSR 4 and DLSS coming we have no idea what to expect or if older generation cards work or in some limited capacity.

 

[Gaiff]

5070 won't be much faster, than 7900XT. 5070 will compete with 8700XT

Are you going to ignore RT and DLSS?

 

[analog_future]

I have a 7900xt earmarked for purchase next month. Is there any point holding out for a 5070 (80/90 are way out of my price range). A quick google suggests it'll be around €700-750 (the 7900xt will cost me around the same price) and may only have 12gb of vram. I don't give a shit about ray tracing btw and I'll be gaming at 1440p.

DLSS is far superior to FSR and I'd imagine DLSS is going to be even further improved with 5000 series cards.


I think it makes sense to at least wait to see what these new cards bring to the table, and then make an educated decision at that point. AMDs next gen cards are imminent as well so next month is legitimately probably the worst time in the cycle to be buying an AMD 7000 series card or Nvidia 4000 series card.

 

[SolidQ]

Are you going to ignore RT and DLSS?

for some people not selling point, and you forgot FSR4

about RT read this - I don't give a shit about ray tracing btw and I'll be gaming at 1440p (c)

 

[twilo99]

Hopefully the mobile chips are not far behind, need something before the end of the tax year, for "work"

What are the rumors around those? Should we expect something interesting for the handheld market or just laptops

 

[twilo99]

The 5060 should be tied with a PS5 PRO in performance. You can be sure that Nvidia will try to push a graphics card with similar performance to the PS5 PRO for the same price as the entire console.


Nvidia tried to push the 4090 by delivering "twice the performance" of the PS5 in the spider remaster, with the card alone costing 3x the price of the PS5.

I don't think Nvidia care about what Sony are doing with PlayStation.

 

[clarky]

What are the rumors around those? Should we expect something interesting for the handheld market or just laptops

Just talking laptops. They come a few months after the full fat cards. Bad value but i get a tax break "for work"

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I still say that the 5090 is going to be the only one worth buying. Assuming you are willing to pay. Maybe the 5080 but that's it.

Just talking laptops. They come a few months after the full fat cards. Bad value but i get a tax break "for work"

I'd expect them to be announced at CES. When you can buy one is of course TBD.

 

[Gaiff]

for some people not selling point, and you forgot FSR4

Are those people in the room with us? Also, can you show me how FSR4 stacks up to DLSS?

about RT read this - I don't give a shit about ray tracing btw and I'll be gaming at 1440p (c)

This is 2024. Damn near every AAA game ships with RT and its prevalence will continue growing in the coming years. You don't want to be stuck with a card that's a piece of shit at ray tracing. The 5070 will wipe the floor with the 7900 XT in RT.

 

[clarky]

I still say that the 5090 is going to be the only one worth buying. Assuming you are willing to pay. Maybe the 5080 but that's it.



I'd expect them to be announced at CES. When you can buy one is of course TBD.

Yeah thats how it normally goes, but the desktop cards are usually out by now.

I'm on a 4090 so no great rush, by April would be nice though

 

[Fahdis]

I'm not buying shit. Free 5080 Upgrade in 3 months after on GeForce Now.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Yeah thats how it normally goes, but the desktop cards are usually out by now.

Correct but I think they might have gotten a little sidetracked with the Blackwell Server issues.

 

[Sanepar]

It was obvious rtx 5080 would be faster than 4090 just dumb people believe otherwise. Probably 10% faster.

 

[Det]

I don't think Nvidia care about what Sony are doing with PlayStation.

Just sponsored a video from Digital Foundry to show how Spiderman Remaster is bad at 60fps on the PS5 and how good it is at 120fps on the RTX 4090

 

[TheRedRiders]

This is 2024. Damn near every AAA game ships with RT and its prevalence will continue growing in the coming years. You don't want to be stuck with a card that's a piece of shit at ray tracing. The 5070 will wipe the floor with the 7900 XT in RT.

Varies by implementation I guess, some argue that RT is meaningless until all games become fully path traced and we're years away from that.

Up until now most implementations have been mediocre in my opinion. I remember we had staunch RTX worshippers during the 20 series era even though those cards were dog shit at RT and game implementations itself were atrocious. Will we be looking back at his period the same way in a few years time?