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Was GamePass the downfall of Xbox?

Not as stupid as MS for managing to sell less than the Xbox One despite the cheaper model, Game pass, and the 70 billion dollar acquisition of publishers. A 2 trillion-dollar company with all its war chest still gets dominated by the 2 smaller companies in the console market speaks volumes about the stupidity of MS's gaming division.
I'd not worry yourself about Microsoft or Xbox they're not in any financial difficulty. Both Sony and Nintendo have far more financial worries than Microsoft, look at the bigger picture and engage some common sense đź« 
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
I'm not really pointing at anything in particular for the decline in my reply to you but you're claiming that it helped it "sell more units". How are you doing the exact opposite when units have actually seen a decline?

The lack of AAA games and zero exclusives on a console, in its launch window, can in part be blamed on their new strategy. They made everything about lower budget games for the service and not about selling the hardware. I would say they even prolonged releases because they were already getting subscription growth and money.

Considering it's pretty obvious that the game lineup was weak, wouldn't you say xbox sales should be even less? It's gamepass that propped them up, not down. It's just as impossible for you to be sure this wasn't the case vs the opposite.

Thier new strategy was great hardware, ganepass, and great games. The last part fizzled, and now sales and momentum have stalled. The prolonged releases had absolutely zero to do with gamepass, they were actually trying to deliver higher quality games. If they had rushed everything, you would have blamed gamepass for them not caring.
 

yazenov

Gold Member
I'd not worry yourself about Microsoft or Xbox they're not in any financial difficulty. Both Sony and Nintendo have far more financial worries than Microsoft, look at the bigger picture and engage some common sense đź« 

I mean, both Playstation and Nintendo made more money than Xbox has ever dreamed of making. The only thing keeping the Xbox division alive is the parent company's money. So If I were an Xbox employee, I'd be worried about these disappointing sales results. Daddy will bail you out a couple of times before shutting the division down.
 

spons

Member
I mean, both Playstation and Nintendo made more money than Xbox has ever dreamed of making. The only thing keeping the Xbox division alive is the parent company's money. So If I were an Xbox employee, I'd be worried about these disappointing sales results. Daddy will bail you out a couple of times before shutting the division down.
Pulling the plug on Xbox would be nasty in either case. I've probably paid thousands in digital games since the early 360 days. I would argue it's too big to fail at this point. Stadia refunded almost everything, which cost Google $$$. Now take into account Xbox being hundreds of times bigger. The backlash would be immense, so I assume if they kill it, Xbox services themselves will exist for years to come so you can play games (and Microsoft doesn't have to refund).

Either way, I do not think Xbox will be shut down for the sole reason of it being too expensive to kill.
 

kyussman

Member
I'd say Kinect and the lack of forward thinking during previous gens(not building up a strong line up of studios,Halo,Gears,Forza)ultimately led them to the hail mary that was GamePass,but they dropped the ball.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Most of these thoughts come from the point of view that Microsoft's immediate goal is to overtake Nintendo and Sony.

That isn't the case. Their first goal will have been to stop haemorrhaging. The second was to provide a reason to either remain/re-enter or enter the xbox ecosystem.

I can't honestly believe people think a subscription service that has grown to 33 million is the reason for any downfall. And that doesn't even factor in the micro economics that we can't substantiate but those in corporate finance and marketing can.

The only real issue I see Gamepass causing is reduction of day one purchases across the industry. There are always games to play in the library, real good quality 3rd party too.

The production of the XB1 had a longer cycle than the length of time gamepass has been around. Although everyone like to speculate and wave shrouds around we're not really going to have a proper view until 2026/7 imo and that will also include emerging strategies from competitors.
 

bitbydeath

Member
That Developer_Direct show really did a number on some people, huh!
This all started before then, it began with Xbox twitter advocates spilling the beans on what was coming, then Nutella confirmed more details, then finally the discord part which I would still class as a rumour. The developer_direct didn’t confirm anything, AFAIK.
 

Klosshufvud

Member
I'd not worry yourself about Microsoft or Xbox they're not in any financial difficulty. Both Sony and Nintendo have far more financial worries than Microsoft, look at the bigger picture and engage some common sense đź« 
The Xbox section of MS is absolutely in trouble when Nadella himself says they will gun for multiplatform development. Just because MS has a ridiculous underregulated war chest does not mean it's guaranteed to win in every market. Or need I remind you of Zune, Windows Phone, Mixer, Games For Windows and so on? In fact MS is a company plagued with bitter failures precisely due to its pathological desire to infect every single market possible. They are driven by very calculated, cynical strategies of suppressing any potential competition before it takes root.

The fact that MS is still making games does not disprove that Xbox is a sinking ship.
 
I mean, both Playstation and Nintendo made more money than Xbox has ever dreamed of making. The only thing keeping the Xbox division alive is the parent company's money. So If I were an Xbox employee, I'd be worried about these disappointing sales results. Daddy will bail you out a couple of times before shutting the division down.
Over 20yrs established, Phil Spencer promoted, tells you all you need to know. I could care less about these fanboy threads but when you read nonsense like the "downfall of Xbox" it starts to become comical.

If we actually look at the facts instead of concentrating solely on console sales, you see Microsoft having enormous confidence in Xbox and the direction its headed. There's an old saying of putting your money where your mouth is and thats exactly what is happening with Xbox. It's getting more funding now than it ever has, more funding than PS/Nintendo combined and long term investment in its huge first party studio's (far bigger than Nintendo or PS). That's not a brand in decline or one that is counting the pennies, business doesn't work like that.

Microsoft have shown in the past they will shut down divisions if they don't see a long term strategy being successful. Xbox is a powerful brand and has a long term strategy for the evolving gaming industry.
 
The Xbox section of MS is absolutely in trouble when Nadella himself says they will gun for multiplatform development. Just because MS has a ridiculous underregulated war chest does not mean it's guaranteed to win in every market. Or need I remind you of Zune, Windows Phone, Mixer, Games For Windows and so on? In fact MS is a company plagued with bitter failures precisely due to its pathological desire to infect every single market possible. They are driven by very calculated, cynical strategies of suppressing any potential competition before it takes root.

The fact that MS is still making games does not disprove that Xbox is a sinking ship.
None of this applies, Satya was referring to them already being multiplatform with the Activision acquisition, something most of you have completely missed.
 

Klosshufvud

Member
Anyone hoping ms go 3rd party is a fucking moron. Almost as bad as ppl who think GP 'killed' MS. Sony are bad enough already, with less competition the only losers will be us, the customer
Consoles are already as anti-consumer as can be. It can't really get much worse as Xbox is barely posing a threat to Playstation regardless. I'd advice everyone to just build a PC and enjoy proper consumer choice and freedom. Consoles are hell and it's not becoming better any time soon. I just can't understand why anyone capable would willingly keep themselves hostage to consoles in 2024.
 

Desless1

Member
This all started before then, it began with Xbox twitter advocates spilling the beans on what was coming, then Nutella confirmed more details, then finally the discord part which I would still class as a rumour. The developer_direct didn’t confirm anything, AFAIK.
Nutella? Really?

This thread is a direct consequence of direct. Just like all the other doom and gloom threads.

At least they're funny.
 

Robb

Gold Member
I think it is because of Game Pass, they could not deliver big-budget games like these
People say that but I’m not convinced GamePass is the main culprit. All of the Bethesda games we’ve gotten were in development long before the acquisition, so that’s not a GamePass-effect.

I also think it’s safe to say MS poured insane amounts of money on top of Halo Infinite. The budget was not the problem. It was plagued with delays, modes that never released, scrapped assets, an engine that they’re now seemingly moving away from etc. etc. it was an absolute shitshow, but hardly because they got less money due to GamePass.

Forza Horizon 5 doesn’t seem very different from Forza Horizon 4 in terms of content and effort from what I can tell. So no GamePass-effect there either.

The main game where they’ve managed to push some boundaries seems to be Flight Simulator. And while that’s fine it’s not really a franchise that excites most people, at least not me.
 
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yazenov

Gold Member
Over 20yrs established, Phil Spencer promoted, tells you all you need to know. I could care less about these fanboy threads but when you read nonsense like the "downfall of Xbox" it starts to become comical.

If we actually look at the facts instead of concentrating solely on console sales, you see Microsoft having enormous confidence in Xbox and the direction its headed. There's an old saying of putting your money where your mouth is and thats exactly what is happening with Xbox. It's getting more funding now than it ever has, more funding than PS/Nintendo combined and long term investment in its huge first party studio's (far bigger than Nintendo or PS). That's not a brand in decline or one that is counting the pennies, business doesn't work like that.

Microsoft have shown in the past they will shut down divisions if they don't see a long term strategy being successful. Xbox is a powerful brand and has a long term strategy for the evolving gaming industry.

Mat Piscatella, Executive Director & Video Game Industry Analyst at Circana, revealed that the growth of video game subscription spending in the US stalled in April: it was only 2% higher than in the same period last year. 8 Jun 2023

Follow
Subscription growth has flattened, and sub services on console and PC platforms accounts for only 10% of total video game content spending in the US. Jan 17, 2024

MS made the wrong bet on subscription services as its growth has stalled. This is according to Mat Piscatella of Circana.

Look, I'm not suggesting that the Xbox division will shut down, but a change needs to happen since their strategy isn't coming to fruition. They need to adapt to the market situation. Going 3rd party is the best option and you know it.
 
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Killjoy-NL

Gold Member
Xbox One reveal was. It was over the moment Sony said they wouldn’t do that DRM-nonsense.
Everything after that was just MS desperately fighting an already lost fight.

Besides, Mattrick said (after Sony's E3 conference in 2013), that they wouldn’t abandon their original plans for Xbox One, but that it was just too soon.
Fast forward, we see GamePass, which is basically the next phase of their always-online nonsense.
But just as it was rejected then, it is being rejected now.

Et voila, this is the result. Pure incompetence and misreading of the market by MS.
 
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killatopak

Gold Member
It’s just adding to the pile. I personally don’t like subscriptions but I’m forced to do it in some cases for online.
 
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Killjoy-NL

Gold Member
Not as stupid as MS for managing to sell less than the Xbox One despite the cheaper model, Game pass, and the 70 billion dollar acquisition of publishers. A 2 trillion-dollar company with all its war chest still gets dominated by the 2 smaller companies in the console market speaks volumes about the stupidity of MS's gaming division.
MS mistake was releasing 2 SKUs.
It was completely undermined by the PS5 Digital, which was right in between both Series S and X with pricing, but with similar perfomance as Series X.

When I pointed this out at the time, most Gaffers were laughing, but here we are.
 

Jose92

[Membe
This site has become so toxic it's hard to visit anymore.
I just want gaming news not adults acting like children.
How has it become toxic ? It’s an opinion thread you can argue against it ? Or just ignore it. Not everything that you don’t agree with means is toxic.
 

Laptop1991

Member
In a way yes, the quality of the games being made and released on game pass are not good enough, and the revenue GP makes is lower than selling top AAA games would be and i've never agreed with Phil that great games don't sell platforms, they do and will,

And as a PC gamer i won't use it, i like using script extenders, mods, reshade tools and others , and so do a lot of other PC gamers as well, and i can't do that with GP, so it won't be a big success on PC either, and make a lot of money for MS, we prefer Steam and GOG, PC gamepass is Xbox gaming on a PC, not real PC gaming, Microsoft needs to make better games and sell them first for more money then put them on GP.
 

magnumpy

Member
I don't think it makes one lick of difference WRT consoles. well maybe one lick, but certainly not two or more licks.

it's a different story when you consider PCs, where Microsoft is much more of a player.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Nutella? Really?

This thread is a direct consequence of direct. Just like all the other doom and gloom threads.

At least they're funny.
reallyfusco.gif
 
It's not just one thing but I think XGP didn't help in the long run.

A list of things that some have already mentioned:
Too heavily focused on Kinect at end of x360 lifecycle

Lost goodwill from x360 to XB1 DRM 24h check-in announcement.

$500USD for XB1 + Kinect compared to cheaper ps4 with better hardware.

Lack of enticing 1st party games compared to the Sony and Nintendo

Day 1 releases on PC meant no real incentive to buy an xbox if you already had a decent PC.

Having all first party games on GamePass Day 1 means lack of incentive for consumers to purchase software. This strategy could work if you are able to convert enough players to game pass, but at present it has cannibalised their game sales significantly.
 
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Hohenheim

Member
You guys act like Xbox is dead. Am I missing something here? Didn't they just seal the biggest deal in gaming ever with Activision/ Blizzard / King?
Or is all this doom and gloom just because they're not focusing on consoles only?
One thing is certain, no matter how the gaming landscape looks in 5 years, the Xbox brand will be right there in the thick of it.
I don't have a Xbox btw.
I use their service on my PC and i'm very satisfied with what they're offering.
 
Pulling the plug on Xbox would be nasty in either case. I've probably paid thousands in digital games since the early 360 days. I would argue it's too big to fail at this point. Stadia refunded almost everything, which cost Google $$$. Now take into account Xbox being hundreds of times bigger. The backlash would be immense, so I assume if they kill it, Xbox services themselves will exist for years to come so you can play games (and Microsoft doesn't have to refund).

Either way, I do not think Xbox will be shut down for the sole reason of it being too expensive to kill.
LMAO you should ask the Windows Phone owners how they felt when MS abruptly abandoned mobile phones after decades of being in that market

MS will shut anything down when they feel like it. They are like any big company, they'll keep propping something up until they get tired of it and then they'll take it out back with the shotgun and that's the end
 

CeeJay

Member
Microsoft has tried lots of different strategies over the years and just keeps on missing the target. They are either aiming too far ahead before the tech is ready and burning out only for someone else to come along and do the exact same thing years later and be successful (smartphones, tablets, kinect, always online, gamepass probably) or they do the opposite and aim directly at the target and by the time it gets to market the market has already shifted (buying big publishers based on their past glory, buying Nokia, fitness wearable etc.). With Xbox there must have been a time sitting in the board room where they said to themselves "we either raise the stakes or fold". They decided to raise and then ended up going all in but when it comes time to show their hand it was full of sixes and sevens.

Really though it's quite simple. Regardless of anything else, all it needed was some quality games. The previously successful ip they had have got stale and they have had nothing new and fresh to take their place bar one or two good but more niche titles. If they had three new killer IP coming through to replace Gears, Forza and Halo then they would have gained market share. I really don't have any faith that anything they have coming is going to move the dial either.
 
Anyone hoping ms go 3rd party is a fucking moron. Almost as bad as ppl who think GP 'killed' MS. Sony are bad enough already, with less competition the only losers will be us, the customer
They are a nonfactor.
They can barely compete in america. Elsewhere they don't even exist.

The market doesnt need xbox anymore like it did 10-20 years ago.
 
Its unbelievable how much anger some of you have for a subscription service which is optional. It’s like it stoled your lunch money. If everything going so well on Playstation, from where comes things anger?
This. I still don’t get it…
 

Three

Member
Considering it's pretty obvious that the game lineup was weak, wouldn't you say xbox sales should be even less? It's gamepass that propped them up, not down. It's just as impossible for you to be sure this wasn't the case vs the opposite.
because gamepass was the reason that the lineup was weak. They didn't mind not having any games at launch for new hardware because they were too concerned with hours instead of concerned with selling consoles:

They delayed games instead of spending more money ramping up development because they were still seeing gamepass growth at the time and that was beneficial to them. Delays meant revenue was coming from the sub every month while they worked on the game. Instead of spending more money for it to go into the sub quicker.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
We really have to get these stupid ass threads every 3 seconds? Downfall of Xbox? Zero common sense once again 🙄

Xbox guys such as yourself have been predicting Sony's downfall because they won't be able to compete with Microsoft outside of consoles.

Your comments regarding Sony:
Because Xbox has completely reinvented itself over the last 4 years. They are a completely different animal now, Sony are actually losing studios, either closing them down or losing contracts with third parties who worked exclusively with them. All that and the market is shifting, Sony are not shifting with it unfortunately and it could be to their detriment.

I agree, Sony will win this generation no worries, I'm more concerned about their business model after that. If the market stays the same then they're fine but what if it doesn't? Regardless all 3 are doing great and us gamers reap the benefits.
This won't happen, certainly not by 2024. The problem Sony has is that Microsoft has a stranglehold on the industry and they are perfectly positioned with cloud gaming which will in time increase their market share even more. Sony have unfortunately for them been very nieve with where the industry is heading.

Spencer set the ball in motion years ago with Gamepass and has now secured an industry leading first party support for it. Jim Ryan was banking on the industry remaining the same and that has been a massive mistake. PS is still at the top as of now but that reign is coming to an end.


Why do people here think Sony are able to do anything? They can't replicate Xcloud no chance, they do not have the infrastructure or the logistics to do anything on the scale of Xcloud, the nonsense has to stop.


Xbox guys are always predicting Sony's downfall.

The difference is that we're actually seeing Game Pass and Xbox perform below expectations. The entire Xbox division might not fail, but consoles are certainly in question and the Cloud might not take off nearly as well you guys think.
 
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BlackTron

Member
Over 20yrs established, Phil Spencer promoted, tells you all you need to know. I could care less about these fanboy threads but when you read nonsense like the "downfall of Xbox" it starts to become comical.

If we actually look at the facts instead of concentrating solely on console sales, you see Microsoft having enormous confidence in Xbox and the direction its headed. There's an old saying of putting your money where your mouth is and thats exactly what is happening with Xbox. It's getting more funding now than it ever has, more funding than PS/Nintendo combined and long term investment in its huge first party studio's (far bigger than Nintendo or PS). That's not a brand in decline or one that is counting the pennies, business doesn't work like that.

Microsoft have shown in the past they will shut down divisions if they don't see a long term strategy being successful. Xbox is a powerful brand and has a long term strategy for the evolving gaming industry.
Well, if you look at the "facts", it's apparent that simply exuding confidence in your direction isn't an indication that it's going to work. They sure seemed pretty confident everyone would love to eat their shit at the Xbox One reveal. Ever since then their strategies have failed and backfired while they stride in such confidence in them. But we should assume that it will all come together! They meant to not be profitable, meant to release duds, meant to lose market share to PS/N, but they did it all on purpose because Phil had a secret plan for the final step all along that would tie it all together...and we know it will work, because he's confident. Just look at the facts!

The way business actually works: shareholders don't want to see losses without excuses for long and they prefer things like dividends. They're putting a collective gun to Satya's head to cut the crap and turn all these losses and investments back into money already. Because their own platform doesn't have the userbase to do this, in desperation you will see Xbox games on Sony and Nintendo. Not just Activision games either. (edit: They ALREADY do this, just get ready to see more!)

None of this applies, Satya was referring to them already being multiplatform with the Activision acquisition, something most of you have completely missed.
I'd not worry yourself about Microsoft or Xbox they're not in any financial difficulty. Both Sony and Nintendo have far more financial worries than Microsoft, look at the bigger picture and engage some common sense đź« 

Finance is more nuanced than "how much money do u have till u run out" ie managing lunch money. Nintendo has less financial difficulty because they make much, much better margins while spending much, much less money. Nintendo's shareholder's benefit from that efficiency and operating profit. Their CEO can breathe knowing the company's owners are satisfied with the financial performance. Satya is more worried about Xbox's finances because they have failed to make money while shedding it left and right for years. The fact that they communicate "confidence in the direction" doesn't change this reality. But please, bless us with more of your common sense.

I mean, both Playstation and Nintendo made more money than Xbox has ever dreamed of making. The only thing keeping the Xbox division alive is the parent company's money. So If I were an Xbox employee, I'd be worried about these disappointing sales results. Daddy will bail you out a couple of times before shutting the division down.

I can't wait until all the people calling their denial "common sense" hit a brick wall when all of MS's games are multiplat (not just Activision lol) and then use mental gymnastics to explain why they could never EVER EVER have seen it coming!
 
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Killjoy-NL

Gold Member
Why is it, Xbox goes mobile and cloud and pc day one. Start a subscription saying they want to be on many screens as possible. It’s Xbox doom. PlayStation says the same, and it’s not doom?
Because we see Xbox dying and PS5 is starting to reach PS2 levels of success, with momentum increasing.

Apart from Sony not going to the same lengths as MS, who went all in from the start.
 

Little Mac

Gold Member
Xbox's downfall was the Series S and its lack of quality console exclusives imo. I think Gamepass is an excellent concept if it was exclusive just to the console. The Series X is an amazing machine that simply needs more console exclusives that show off its power, whether its 1st party day one, or simply paid 3rd party timed exclusivity.

I left the PS ecosystem during the disastrous launch of the PS3 and been a Green Rat up until the end of 2023. 2023 pretty much broke me as an xbox fan. I'm now back in the PS camp playing PS5 exclusives, and PS5 remakes of old Sony titles I missed out on, and it feels great to be playing software developed specifically for the machine I spent a lot of money on. My two cents at least.
 
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FireFly

Member
because gamepass was the reason that the lineup was weak. They didn't mind not having any games at launch for new hardware because they were too concerned with hours instead of concerned with selling consoles:

They delayed games instead of spending more money ramping up development because they were still seeing gamepass growth at the time and that was beneficial to them. Delays meant revenue was coming from the sub every month while they worked on the game. Instead of spending more money for it to go into the sub quicker.
Which games were pushed back that would have really pushed the needle for console sales? (It's not clear to me that even 2024's lineup will make a big difference)
 

xrnzaaas

Member
It's difficult to say if the state of Microsoft's games would be better without the introduction of Game Pass. They would certainly be under more pressure to deliver high quality exclusives to make people buy an Xbox instead of PlayStation. But would their studios really be able to give us better / more polished / higher budget games? Probably not without some major changes and investments to the core studios (rather than continuing to buy other devs and entire publishers to make GP's offerings better).
 
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iamvin22

Industry Verified
Day one on PC and Gamepass, yes absolutely. Xbox is a console, not PC plus other shite even if the background tasks say Xbox (is it called game bar or something?).

/thread.


This is all you really need to read. Day 1 on PC and day 1 on gamepass was the ultimate kill blow. This guy gets it.

Consoles have to have a reason for owning one. MS took every reason away to purchase a series console.
 
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