What will next gen graphics look like?

What you don't realize is that people say this every single time.

Sure, that's fine. So tell me, what's changing? I'm not saying things haven't gotten better -- ironing out the kinks on this gen will definitely make things look better. Tech demos have shown us what's ahead for the next few years and they look great. Stuff like the UE4 demo show the level of detail and expansiveness possible... But they're still only minor improvements. Samaritan demo, Watchdog demos look great, but for the most part they're using pretty lighting effects, reflections, etc in dark areas to make these stand out.

Seems that through PC or some other outlet we've always had a way to peek into what the next 'console' generation had in store. To say that people say 'it cant get much better than now' is correct, but that's frequently by people who never researched what's coming up. Now we're saying "we saw what's coming, but there must be something shittons better that they're not showing us!" Which I feel is wishful thinking. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
 
Happens every gen, mostly PC gamers say that next gen consoles will look like current gen PC games.. and they are always wrong.

Consoles never hit thermal limits like they're getting to now. They won't be able to scale up to as much of a jump, the question is how much exactly.

Non-technical people can do their little "optimization" and "API" voodoo chants as much as they like, it doesn't change the fact that more transistors at higher clocks cost a lot and suck down a lot of wattage. Consoles operating at 200W simply will not be able to match PCs that draw that much for video chipsets alone.
 
A little while ago I decided to see what my computer would feel like hooked up to a TV. I played Crysis 2 maxed out in DX9 on a Q6600 and an HD6850 in 1080p with a 360 controller, and it felt like I was playing a next gen launch game. If I can get to a point where I can do that in DX11 with the tessellation on, I think that'll at least be satisfactory for 2013-2014 console gaming.
 
All I really want is solid 60. I don't mind graphics how they are now, as some games are pretty amazing looking now as it is.
 
First post couldn't have been so wrong. Witcher 2...gtfo. Maybe the launch titles.

It'll be amazing. Whatever Epic has up their sleeves to show off Unreal will be the spark that sets of that amazing. It'll just get crazier from there.

Witcher 2...lol

All I really want is solid 60. I don't mind graphics how they are now, as some games are pretty amazing looking now as it is.

Bjork, this is what people were saying about last gen with games like Chaos Theory. Once you see the new stuff, you won't believe you ever said this.
 
Honestly I bet console games next gen will look great.. but if I learned anything this gen big budget console games will probably still be hand holdy and have no depth.
 
Haha wow that guy comes off as an unbelievable douche. Today we are going to compare an almost 7 year old console that released in 2005 to a brand new gaming pc. We are going to be comparing Battlefield 3, a game built from the ground up to utilize the latest PC hardware and was ported over to the Xbox 360 which is now ancient tech. Lets see how they compare.

Look at this sign, antenna, tree, pole and barb wire. That shit just utterly destroys my gaming experience.

God damn. I'm all for PC gaming and it having the superior tech, better features, customization options, etc. but this shit is shameful. A multi-plat game that released late 2011 looks better on a 2010-2011 PC then on a console that is build off tech over 6 years old? Really now, who would have guessed?

On the subject of what games will look like, launch titles will be glorified current gen graphics with all the bells and whistles while a couple years in, we will start seeing good shit from the majority of devs where the heavy hitters in graphics like Epic, Square, Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, etc. will start releasing stuff that crushes the shit out of some of the best stuff today. I mean damn, I remember seeing screens of Uncharted 3 running in 1080p with AA and such and that shit was mindblowing. If the next consoles are truly 10x what we have now, then holy shit, these devs will bring a revolution in graphics.

I mean seriously, looking at Uncharted 3 and GoW Ascension, etc. and seeing how good they look for the old as shit hardware the games are running off... Magic will happen again.

Why are you so offended by it? Why can't we compare new PCs to current gen consoles? Why does it need to be a "fair" contest? This isn't about fair...it's about reality. He's showing that the differences in image quality are very noticeable and demonstrable.
 
Bjork, this is what people were saying about last gen with games like Chaos Theory. Once you see the new stuff, you won't believe you ever said this.

Maybe, but I've never been too concerned with realism in visuals or tons of detail. Sometimes it helps, but some games don't need it to tell a story or hook me in. Unless you're saying a bump in visuals will mean more games with actual people and less generic bald guys in generic armor toting generic guns and shooting generic aliens.
 
Maybe, but I've never been too concerned with realism in visuals or tons of detail. Sometimes it helps, but some games don't need it to tell a story or hook me in. Unless you're saying a bump in visuals will mean more games with actual people and less generic bald guys in generic armor toting generic guns and shooting generic aliens.

That will be there but MORE!!!

Don't that get you hype?
 
This post still gets me every time. I can't believe there actually was a point where people's high end expectations for next-gen were The freaking Witcher 2. Thank God we finally have some information on next-gen engines to reassure people of the leap that will happen.
I'd still be pretty impressed if next gen consoles could pull those off at 1080p/60fps/4xAA. I think 720p/30fps/FXAA with more eye candy is the current expectation.
 
Games are going to look great because developers are going to target 720p 30 FPS again to make them look much better. I'm laughing at all the people thinking that there is going to be some kind of standard when 99% of the people playing CoD think its in HD and don't care.
 
Games are going to look great because developers are going to target 720p 30 FPS again to make them look much better. I'm laughing at all the people thinking that there is going to be some kind of standard when 99% of the people playing CoD think its in HD and don't care.
I'm pretty sure that CoD will still be 60fps.
 
I am still not convinced the new consoles will be a huge leap forward on the tech side. Yeah they will used updated GPUs, but I think the days of cutting edge tech in these boxes is history.

I would be willing to bet 80% of the improvements will be on the OS side of things to make the whole streaming media center push easier. It is clear that is Microsoft's main focus, not games.
 
Happens every gen, mostly PC gamers say that next gen consoles will look like current gen PC games.. and they are always wrong.

Yep, you can judge when the next consoles are coming out by the increase of PC only gamers becoming more vocal. We start hearing, *"I prefer PC gaming over consoles, due to their increased graphical proficiency" it just means new consoles are on their way to *keep their comments less severe* for another 5 years.

*Although I'm currently enjoying the increased benefits of PC gaming w/ my new build. And I'm excited to play the Witcher 2*
 
Happens every gen, mostly PC gamers say that next gen consoles will look like current gen PC games.. and they are always wrong.

Please find anyone who said this last generation on this forum


Yep, you can judge when the next consoles are coming out by the increase of PC only gamers becoming more vocal. We start hearing, "PC MASTER RACE!" it just means new consoles are on their way to shut em up for another 5 years.

Enjoy your ban.
 
First post couldn't have been so wrong. Witcher 2...gtfo. Maybe the launch titles.

It'll be amazing. Whatever Epic has up their sleeves to show off Unreal will be the spark that sets of that amazing. It'll just get crazier from there.

Witcher 2...lol



Bjork, this is what people were saying about last gen with games like Chaos Theory. Once you see the new stuff, you won't believe you ever said this.

I'm guessing you haven't actually played Witcher 2 on ultra, and don't say you saw a pic or a youtube video, they don't do the game justice. Considering many devs are struggling to push current consoles to the limit, don't expect many games outside of the really big franchises that sell 5+ mill to look anything remotely close to Samaritan.
 
Please find anyone who said this last generation on this forum
That's usually not too far from the truth at launch. You don't really see the full benefits of the newer hardware until about two years in.

We had this argument here before and there was no consensus on which looked better, 360 launch or PC 2005. So that means they're at least comparable.

fear-20050923050657674.jpg


perfect-dark-zero-20051123110154037.jpg
 
Agni's Philosophy does make some people look pretty silly. While it was running on a GTX 680, which is probably at least twice as powerful as next-gen consoles, it was also using inefficient CG assets and rendering at 1080p.
 
Really? Well apologizes if that was offensive. Generally it's what I see around the end of a consoles life due to them being so old and PC tech being wildly better.

I've actually just upgraded my comp and am enjoying a lot of the PC games I missed in the last couple years. I start preferring PC gaming around this point as well

Probably want to edit that post, pretty sure that meme is bannable
 
That's usually not too far from the truth at launch. You don't really see the full benefits of the newer hardware until about two years in.

We had this argument here before and there was no consensus on which looked better, 360 launch or PC 2005. So that means they're at least comparable.

lol pd0

Come on now

03kameo.jpg


Next gen launch games will look TONS better than anything out on PC at that time probably. Just as Kameo did back in 05.
 
Wikipedia, nice. I'm sure you do.

No such thing as a free lunch refers to a scenario like if someone hands you a sandwich and tells you that it's free, and the idea is that nothing is free.

How exactly is that relevant to this discussion?



The best I can assume is that you're claiming that since people are assuming graphics will be better on consoles that have specs which are equivalent to mid-range PC's that they are expecting a free lunch? First of all, that's not a proper use of the phrase, and secondly it's a severe misinterpretation of the issue.
 
why do people keep expecting 60 frames? 60 frames has never been standard and 30 frames will stay the norm. The hardware doesn't determine 60 frames, it's a design decision. Games will stay 30 frames and as a result they will look fuckin amazing pushing stuff that cant be done at 60 frames.
 
why do people keep expecting 60 frames? 60 frames has never been standard and 30 frames will stay the norm. The hardware doesn't determine 60 frames, it's a design decision. Games will stay 30 frames and as a result they will look fuckin amazing pushing stuff that cant be done at 60 frames.

Yea, consoles will always be stuck around 30 fps (w/ some exceptions) and the PC will only experience such benefits for at least a while. As long as developers have the specs of the console, they'll make their games to utilize all of it and not leave room for double the frames a second. Same for higher resolutions also (at least for a gen or two).
 
I've found that animation, physics and - even though I don't notice it too often - FPS help make a game look better than the graphics themselves.

Star Wars 1313 looks amazing and in screenshots, it looks like current-day CG, but when I see that next to Watch Dogs, I give the edge to the latter. 1313 is more eye-popping and in-your-face than WD, but touches like WD's main character's coat blowing in the wind, steam from the sewer rolling across the ground and believable animation makes it look more amazing to me in motion.

Scripted set-pieces can look amazing (and 1313 certainly does, not knocking it here), but dynamic, unscripted action always looks more amazing to me because, in a way, it's more "real" than scripted action.
 
Sure, that's fine. So tell me, what's changing? I'm not saying things haven't gotten better -- ironing out the kinks on this gen will definitely make things look better. Tech demos have shown us what's ahead for the next few years and they look great. Stuff like the UE4 demo show the level of detail and expansiveness possible... But they're still only minor improvements. Samaritan demo, Watchdog demos look great, but for the most part they're using pretty lighting effects, reflections, etc in dark areas to make these stand out.

Seems that through PC or some other outlet we've always had a way to peek into what the next 'console' generation had in store. To say that people say 'it cant get much better than now' is correct, but that's frequently by people who never researched what's coming up. Now we're saying "we saw what's coming, but there must be something shittons better that they're not showing us!" Which I feel is wishful thinking. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

There hasn't been a single generation where launch titles look just about the same as toward the end of said generation. Not being particularly impressed with the very little footage of what next-gen MIGHT look like is really no grounds for any reasonable conclusion.

On another note, 60FPS hasn't been standard since games have gone 3D. Anyone wishing for 60FPS should just get a PC, that's really the only platform that would give you such a framerate frequently, provided you have the hardware for it.
 
I think you'd be surprised. 30 fps is because atm everyone is pushing a bit 'too far'.
The industry knows that COD is popular for a reason; I wouldn't be surprised at a number of launch titles being 60 fps.

Its too much effort for some developers to run at 60 on current consoles, next gen will hopefully make this easier (especially when I think it will be too expensive for most to optimise their games - 60 fps then becomes the better path to take).


PS: Thanks for those Kameo screens MMaRsu; haven't played my 360 in a long time now; but I might have to check that game out now - looks gorgeous! Wish there was more like that in this gen! Its on a short list!
 
why do people keep expecting 60 frames? 60 frames has never been standard and 30 frames will stay the norm. The hardware doesn't determine 60 frames, it's a design decision. Games will stay 30 frames and as a result they will look fuckin amazing pushing stuff that cant be done at 60 frames.

It'll be 60 frames only if they use the exact same assets and effects at the quality they use now, which they won't.
 
The launch games = 1 or 2 games that look better than anything anyone's ever seen before by a large margin, but with bad art. A bunch of shoddy PC game ports that high end PCs run better. A bunch of Xbox 360, Wii U, and PS3 game ports with barely enhanced visuals.

A year in = 1 or 2 more really amazing looking games that finally get both the visuals and the art right

3 years in = A PC game comes out that really pushes PC hardware at the time and looks better than anything on the consoles

5 years in = A new console game comes out that looks better than that PC game

7 years in = PC games regularly look better than the console games
 
lol pd0

Come on now

03kameo.jpg


Next gen launch games will look TONS better than anything out on PC at that time probably. Just as Kameo did back in 05.

I really hope MS has Rare working on something for the launch of the next gen console.. something other than a new kinect sports. I would love to see them try another Kameo, Viva Pinata or Perfect Dark..

A couple of years I ago my feeling was that next gen would be mostly 1280x1080 games running at 30 fps with a few 1920x1080 games also at 30 fps.

Now that this gen have gone on so long, I guess it is realistic that quite a few games will be 1920x1080 30 fps but we will still see plenty at lower res.

60 fps?

Bitch, please.

For next-gen physics people can take a look at this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475873&highlight=physics



Yeah, see, stuff like that physics demo is what Im really excited for... so good.
 
I think you'd be surprised. 30 fps is because atm everyone is pushing a bit 'too far'.
There will always be 30fps games. Unless 60fps is a priority (sports, racing, CoD), then many developers will still choose to give themselves double the rendering time to make prettier visuals.
 
A couple of years I ago my feeling was that next gen would be mostly 1280x1080 games running at 30 fps with a few 1920x1080 games also at 30 fps.

Now that this gen have gone on so long, I guess it is realistic that quite a few games will be 1920x1080 30 fps but we will still see plenty at lower res.

60 fps?

Bitch, please.

For next-gen physics people can take a look at this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475873&highlight=physics


It's beautiful. Those physics in an open-world game would make crashes and surviving them all the more awesome.
 
How exactly is that relevant to this discussion?

People think that just because you stick parts inside of a proprietary box you get some kind of free performance increase because of "optimization". Generally in the past the delta between consoles at launch vs PCs of the day has been because of the highly customized parts designed specifically for the console boxes and the high level of specialization. Consoles played games and didn't need to devote resources towards anything else.

In addition there was a fairly level playing field in terms of thermals and power draw. PCs weren't sucking down wattage and so consoles could roughly match them in terms of transistor count and design complexity.

All of this is different now.

1. Consoles next gen are going to get parts either directly off the shelf or only lightly customized for their use. The cost of R&D in the semiconductor space has skyrocketed, and the parts made for PC and mobile are good enough that there's no real benefit to coming up with your own silicon from scratch. This sea change actually came during the design process for the current gen, but Nintendo threw a monkey wrench into the works by going with overclocked Gamecube chips and Sony obviously cost themselves a boatload of money by betting badly with Cell and tossing the RSX in at the last minute.

The 360 got a prototype unified shader GPU but you won't be seeing this happen next time. Both MS and Sony are going with AMD-based GPU designs and there's nothing far enough along in production that could conceivably go into for the new consoles. They're getting GCN architecture, the only question is transistor count and clock speed.

2. Consoles aren't as specialized anymore. The current offerings all do a lot more than just play games and everyone in the hardware space is doubling down on this for the future. We're going to get boxes that try to do everything and thus have to devote CPU clocks and RAM space to OS level functionality. This will ultimately reduce the resources available to games.

In addition there won't be as much low-level coding as there has been in the past. Everyone's concentrating on multiplatform releases which means higher levels of coding abstraction and less platform-specific optimization. More middleware also means less programming to the metal. Ballooning budgets will take their toll here too, but I'm just concentrating on the technical aspects here.

3. As I mentioned, thermal draw is possibly the biggest factor. High end PCs have power supplies that can draw over 1000W and GPUs that take up a substantial fraction of that. Consoles will simply not be able to measure up.

It's not my intention to really disparage the consoles here. For the amount of money you'll spend I'm sure both Sony and MS will be providing a better experience than buying a $300-400 PC (for the first year or two anyway), and developers will (stupidly IMO) still be putting out console-only games that you just can't get on PC.

But when you're talking purely in technical terms, I think it's pretty safe to say that Durango and Orbis will definitely not be able to measure up.
 
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