Why next gen won't be next gen really

The_Inquisitor said:
People who say we're not going to see a huge gain from a new set of consoles are crazy. We can't even get a game to run native in 720p right now.
Games like Skyrim would garner a HUGE boost in terms of stability and quality from more system RAM and more powerful hardware.

OP, have you played the PC version of any recent console games? There is a noticeable different in quality.
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Yes, I play allgames on PC except console exclusives.

Vulcano's assistant said:
I believe it is because story driven games (which we can agree are the most popular genre nowadays) don't need much technology besides visual fidelity.

What I would like to see are new experiments with procedural stuff. I'm ready for big procedural cities and deformable terrain in RTS. I want all the physics gizmos of the sand-game in a game that looks like battlefield 3. Just imagine making a tunnel trough a mountain to get to the enemy at 1:1 scale; blowing up a damn and see the water flood a valley in real time, burn a forest, pile sand, melt metal!
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I don't think that story-driven games are the most popular genre, it's the opposite - COD, Minecraft, MMOs, Skyrim are not story driven games, they are all about gameplay.
 
stilgar said:
Yeah, as already said, diminishing returns are a bitch in this department.

But I fully expect crazy things on the motion control/detection/interaction ground. I think we will be all sort of amazed in the years to come. And I don't even like motion control as it is now (except for wii sports-style games).
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I wouldn't be so sure, you know. The question is IF Sony and Microsoft will start selling a motion-sensing controller from the very beginning. Personally, I doubt it a lot. Maybe Microsoft will sell a special Kinect II bundle from families and another pack with the classic controller for the gamer community.

Problem is Nintendo though. I would not bet a penny they'll stick with motion sensing again. But I'm sure they'll not return to a classic controller either. Probably they will try to disrupt the market again with something different, like the tablet we saw. Even here, I'm not so sure the controller we saw last year will be what we'll see at this E3. During an entire year and under the pressure of the almost 3DS bomb, who knows what they've decided.

And since Nintendo is the one who dictates the rhythm of the innovation, Sony and Microsoft maybe have interest to keep things the way it was till now: consoles with classic configuration, but with the possibility to extend their gameplay with accessories in function of the success of certain Nintendo devices. It's smart and safer than going 100% for motion sensing that could be offset rapidly by some other Nintendo's idea.
 
i can't see "next gen" having as much as an impact as from going from snes to playstation 1.. nevermind going from playstation 3 to xbox 720... "blah blah"...

As time goes on.... the advantages in tech are more and more diminished...

In my opinion the true "next gen" starts when developers have unlimited resources and no "hardware" excuse for a game....
 
I don't think we are hitting a visual plateau just yet. It might be the last before last generation where graphics could matter though.

What will definetely happen this gen though is that MONEY will become the new bottleneck for most. It will cost alot more (again, like every gen) to make AAA games and they will be fewer than now. The game's scale will be larger than ever. Basically, your game will look like its budget.
 
This generation was a bit too ambitious and it lead to the downfall of a LOT of studios that were just too small to keep up. I don't think next generation is going to be a huge improvement as far as raw power is concerned. And I'm ok with that, because I still find modern games impressive. :P
 
Evolved1 said:
Don't agree with the OP at all...

Right now the best games, especially on consoles, are shackled by hardware limitations. Devs who deliver compelling experiences do it in spite of these limitations.

This same fucking argument every gen, and every gen we get amazing experiences that wouldn't have been possible without the hardware.

Hardware limitations strangle most of the life out of the art... some devs succeed despite this. Look at the concept art that goes into these games, and how much is lost in translation. It isn't due to lack of creativity. They just don't have the hardware to fully realize their vision. And yet, every gen, we inch closer and closer.
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Well said. Same argument every gen.

Next gen will bring even better experiences than this gen brought. May take a couple years, but it will happen.
 
Freezie KO said:
FPS controls on Wii demolish dual analog.
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Different people, different tastes etc.

But for most no way, also isn't the WiiU controller an admission for Nintendo that this is not the case.


Anyway on topic I can not wait for next gen, I'm expecting hardware and major software/service improvements.

I'm close to rigging my PC to my Tele.
 
I agree that the wii remote didn't end up as a good input device for the majority of the time but Nintendo doesn't deserve the hate for it.

I hope we keep seeing new stuff like that but with serious support to keep things fresh. Not shit thrown to the garbage from day 1 like move and kinect.
 
Developers have these amazing tools today like Unreal Engine 3 and Cry Engine 3 that they can't put to full use because the current consoles have limitations. There's a lot to gain in physics and lighting and that's just the tip of the iceberg. If the Xbox 720 hits this year we'll see a 7 year jump in technology it's going to be impressive either way.
 
I just don't think it's time yet, especially not for Sony. They still have The Last of Us, The Last Guardian, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, Santa Monica game all deep in development. These games probably won't be out until 2013. I think they should really hold off on next gen for at least one more year, let the development costs get cheaper and stuff tons of RAM into the next gen consoles to ensure we get a proper generational leap.
 
Adding to the console's OS features that are standard amongst all games would be nice. This gen brought party chat, custom music, achievements/trophies, so something like youtube integration in every game where you can record snippets and upload straight to your account would be amazing. A full web browser that can be popped up while playing a game would be another nice thing to throw in there. Pointless for me since I have a laptop and phone readily available, but I'm sure there's an audience that would appreciate it.

As for games, I'd be happy if we can get 64 player Battlefield games on consoles. Right now BF3 just feels like a fantastic demo of the PC version.
 
Roto13 said:
This generation was a bit too ambitious and it lead to the downfall of a LOT of studios that were just too small to keep up. I don't think next generation is going to be a huge improvement as far as raw power is concerned. And I'm ok with that, because I still find modern games impressive. :P
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The only interesting thing maybe is that Nintendo's franchise will translate from sd to hd.

Sure, this doesn't mean of course that their games will look better or play better, but I'm somehow curious to see Metroid, Zelda and Mario going high definition.
 
I've been gaming since the NES and I've heard some form of this same argument every friggin generation. Trust me, next gen will come, most of the launch stuff won't seem that much better, but then the bench-mark setting hits will come (i.e. the Oblivion, Gears, Uncharted of this gen) and before you know it going back to 360/PS3 games will start to get harder and harder to do.
 
clemenx said:
I agree that the wii remote didn't end up as a good input device for the majority of the time but Nintendo doesn't deserve the hate for it.

I hope we keep seeing new stuff like that but with serious support to keep things fresh. Not shit thrown to the garbage from day 1 like move and kinect.
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Well said,

IMO.. motion controls AND standard controls...are the future, motion controls don't work for every genre, but when they are implimented with a degree of control to certain genres "eg. fps.., they work better than anything.
 
Cygnus X-1 said:
The only interesting thing maybe is that Nintendo's franchise will translate from sd to hd.

Sure, this doesn't mean of course that their games will look better or play better, but I'm somehow curious to see Metroid, Zelda and Mario going high definition.
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I think any fan of those games has always wanted to see that, admittedly when xbox 360 was announced...
 
Gowans007 said:
Different people, different tastes etc.

But for most no way, also isn't the WiiU controller an admission for Nintendo that this is not the case.
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"Most" were used to dual analog and never gave pointer controls the time of day. An option already existed that most people were moderately comfortable with. Gamers, being the most rigid and obstinate demographic on the planet, maybe tried pointer controls once on Metroid Prime 3 and then gave up.

As for the Wii U controller, it is an admission that they need dual analogs to satiate third party developers. It's also a tacit admission that they want to be Apple, but have no idea why the iPad is popular.

Mihos said:
Die... just... just die now....
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I think in the next gen you should have the option to use dual analog. I'm not saying to remove dual analog. I'm saying that FPS games should offer both. And then remove aim assist.

By the way, there's no reason that a comfortable split controller like the Wiimote and nunchuk couldn't simply add more buttons or even a second stick to accommodate both on the same controller. But even if you want a "classic," you should be able to use it. Just allow both and remove ALL aim assist.
 
clemenx said:
I agree that the wii remote didn't end up as a good input device for the majority of the time but Nintendo doesn't deserve the hate for it.

I hope we keep seeing new stuff like that but with serious support to keep things fresh. Not shit thrown to the garbage from day 1 like move and kinect.
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I cant speak for kinect, but I quite enjoy the move. What I like most is that it's peripheral, an option, and not forced as the primary control method. It works for the games designed around it, and pretty well with games designed to incorporate it as an option. In this way, imo, Sony has succeeded with the device. Maybe not monetarily, I don't know if the thing made any money, but to the extent I don't regret my purchase. And it's been fun to use when I was in the mood. And a fun family thing... but my PS3 is still primarily a traditional "gamepad" machine, and that's perfect.
 
Next gen graphics will definitely be very impressive. And I expect it to be much more than just current PC graphics. I am baffled by that stuff. Battlefield 3 on PC is not my expectations for next gen.

One genre where we'll definitely notice a huge difference is sports games. I think they will finally be able to fully render amazing looking crowds to the point where a game like NBA 2k14 will look photorealistic. Madden might still look like shit because they have no competition, but games like The Show and NBA 2k I expect to look amazing.
 
BurntPork said:
The difference there is that the N64/PS1 had such simple graphics that it limited gameplay. The next gen got rid of most of those limits and allowed a much different experience.

This gen, graphics aren't really limiting much. Next gen will just be this gen with more of everything and little that actually makes it feel different.
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Let's talk again 15 years from now.
 
This is said every generation. The only thing restraining next gen from being "next gen" are budgets. There are plenty of ways the gaming experience can be improved with better hardware.
 
MrVargas said:
I've been gaming since the NES and I've heard some form of this same argument every friggin generation. Trust me, next gen will come, most of the launch stuff won't seem that much better, but then the bench-mark setting hits will come (i.e. the Oblivion, Gears, Uncharted of this gen) and before you know it going back to 360/PS3 games will start to get harder and harder to do.
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Well, at least Gears made cover mechanic into mainstream one - even hardcore PC shooters like RO2 use it now and the lack of it seems to be A DEFINING FEATURE (see Serious Sam, Hard Reset marketing campaigns). So I hope developers will introduce something REALLY new to get me excited.
 
subversus said:
So according to continuous stream of rumours at least two console manufacturers will present their next-gen systems this year. I can't feel any excitement about this because of the following reason:

Next-gen won't bring anything new to the table except graphics (please note that graphics != IQ in this discussion). "But graphics are important!" you would probably say. Not really - they were important unil this gen.

What happened this gen? New tech + motion capture allowed games to look like movies. I know that many of you hate passive storytelling in games but that's not about it. It's about not using your imagination to pretend that this pile of polygons is a badass looking warrior who moves swiftly, like a real human in believable-looking environments because you don't need to (case in point - Batman series, Uncharted series). That was a game changer. I will never forget Pripyat mission in COD4 because it was the first time in my life I saw soldiers in games moving like real people and not like puppets and it was very noticeable.

So we are not quite there - you still can easily note the difference between a movie and a game but the line got blurred and all they can do is to improve it a bit - add more textures, more polygons, make facial animations more realistic but that's it. Gameplay won't change a bit.


I don't see how next gen would allow drastic improvement in AI.
I don't see how next gen would allow improvement in storytelling.
I don't see how next gen would allow doing something completely new like Minecraft for example.


The only improvement I see is:

a)physics
b)graphics and overall quality in open world games - now you will be able to put more animations, textures and other stuff into memory + doing crowds will be much easier.

That is it. I can't see how this could be a reason to buy next-gen system day 1 or even year 1. I can't see how this would drive people to buy these new systems en masse. I think the first two years will be a dead season until Bethesda, Activision and may be some other big studio/publisher put their mega franchises onnew systems but even then I don't see myself rushing to buy a new console because I'm sure won't be done with this gen backlog by that time.

So why are you personally excited about new consoles?
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I don't agree. I just played Witcher 2 and Zelda Skyward sword head to head. TW2 looks like it could be an early next gen game in some parts while SS looks like it's more than ten years old (which it actually kinda is). The immersion in TW2 is amazing. When you run through that forests with it's absoluetly believable flora you really feel like you are IN the forest. Exploring is a lot more fun. The forest in Skyward Sword though...nevermind. I just couldn't connect to the game. Huge part of that was missing immersion and that was part of old ass graphics.

So yeah, I don't agree, I think visuals still can improve and I think as well that it does a lot for the overall experience. After all it's VIDEOgames.
 
subversus said:
Yes, I play allgames on PC except console exclusives.



I don't think that story-driven games are the most popular genre, it's the opposite - COD, Minecraft, MMOs, Skyrim are not story driven games, they are all about gameplay.
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Let me maybe put it this way.

I believe devs are shackled right now between choosing between graphics and gameplay given the "bucket" of how much they can get out of the silicon in current consoles. Gameplay does improve with hardware because it ultimately allows for more things to be rendered in real time, more actions for the AI, ect.

Yes games look great for the most part right now. But looks even a few years back this generation. Throwing out devs "learning the new hardware" there have been DRAMATIC leaps in graphics every year even.

Compare Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 3. The difference is remarkable. Compare UC2 and UC3? Not as huge.


The reason ultimately I think that the argument about graphics is made is because we as the more "hardcore" crowd play our releases relatively close to when they launch. Month to month graphics between releases are relatively comparable to one another. Therefore it is hard to see the difference because effectively the change is incremental for that timespan.

Expand time between releases to a year, and bigger differences are seen. So to sum it up, compare games this generation alone from launch to now a good amount of time apart, and you will see that yes indeed we have plenty of room to still grow in the visual department.
 
Playing Metroid Prime 3 on Wii was really incredible, I found the controls far more enjoyable than dual analog stick setups. That was when I started warming up to motion controls a bit.
 
I know there are going to be alot of people that disagree with me and that's fine.

The Witcher 2 imo is the best looking game currently on console on pc when everthing is enabled. I don't care for the setting or the art style, but the game is godamned technically impressive.
Uncharted is currently the best looking console game, once again, I don't like the art style (or the game for that matter) but it is a visual treat that does wow me compared to the usual COD etc.

Although there is no doubt that TW2 looks better in all regards then Uncharted, the difference in graphics is not nearly as large as we have seen in the past at the end of a generation. For instance, fear on pc vs re4 on gamecube, where the difference was holy shit imho.

I guess what I'm saying is if we can get graphics on par with TW2 from one of the next gen consoles at 1080p with a stable fucking framerate, that will tide me over for the next 5-7 years. Everything else from larger game environments, better ai etc, should fall inline with the straight up increase in computing power.

Oh, and give me a dota clone on any of the 3 systems with either m+kb support or the wii u tablet.
 
When I buy my PS4 I want it to show visuals which I have not yet seen. If it releases in 2013 we will all be dissapointed with our highres PS3 games.
 
Ra1den said:
Playing Metroid Prime 3 on Wii was really incredible, I found the controls far more enjoyable than dual analog stick setups. That was when I started warming up to motion controls a bit.
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It's only gotten better since then. The new CoD games on Wii offer the same presets that MP3 offered, or you can fully customize everything to the pixel for your liking.
 
Orayn said:
Storytelling has never had much to do with hardware in the first place, and is strictly up to the studios. That said, it's not something I really care about.
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Creativity isn't necessarily separate from processing capacity. I'm sure there are aspiring game designers out there whose ideas are limited by the capabilities of these platforms.
 
subversus said:
Well, at least Gears made cover mechanic into mainstream one - even hardcore PC shooters like RO2 use it now and the lack of it seems to be A DEFINING FEATURE (see Serious Sam, Hard Reset marketing campaigns). So I hope developers will introduce something REALLY new to get me excited.
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Personally I don't have a foggiest whats going to happen "next gen" but if "this gen" can only be remembered for the cover mechanic..... the future doesn't look that much bright...

I just want the return of truly rememberable games... games that define a generation... something this "gen" has been sorely lacking..
 
Current gen was a big step ahead of the previous one for the necessary use of next-gen hardware (hdtvs\surround audio systems) for perfect experience enjoyment.
Next won't have the same type of improvement in the overall experience.
 
Will we finally be able to have multiple accounts logged in simultaneously while playing local multiplayer on the ps4? Next Gen!
 
Better graphics alone let me be pumped for the new gen. A new Elder Scrolls with BF3 PC graphics?

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Gowans007 said:
Different people, different tastes etc.
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Agreed. Except in this case pointer controls are a mechanically better control scheme for that genre by design.

But yeah, different strokes. Some people aren't used to it, some people can't wrap their heads around the movement and find it awkward and uncomfortable (which I attribute to a lack of muscle memory more than anything), devs of modern shooting games take a lot of time to design their games around masking the limitations of dual-analog which creates the illusion that the control scheme works better for the genre...and that is fine. That doesn't change the fact that it's an objectively worse control scheme though.

Hell I was a PC gamer exclusively last gen, learned the genre entirely on KB/M, and still love me some Battlefield 1943 on Xbox. Aint nothing wrong with it.
 
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