Why next gen won't be next gen really

subversus said:
I don't see how next gen would allow drastic improvement in AI.
I don't see how next gen would allow improvement in storytelling.
I don't see how next gen would allow doing something completely new like Minecraft for example.


The only improvement I see is:

a)physics
b)graphics and overall quality in open world games - now you will be able to put more animations, textures and other stuff into memory + doing crowds will be much easier.

That is it. I can't see how this could be a reason to buy next-gen system day 1 or even year 1. I can't see how this would drive people to buy these new systems en masse. I think the first two years will be a dead season until Bethesda, Activision and may be some other big studio/publisher put their mega franchises onnew systems but even then I don't see myself rushing to buy a new console because I'm sure won't be done with this gen backlog by that time.

So why are you personally excited about new consoles?
Click to expand...


I think you're wrong...however, anyone buying a next gen console within the first 18 months of launch is fucking crazy these days. Considering the 360, PS3, DSi and 3DS launches...yeah...I'm done with buying consoles at launch.

The Wii staved off buyers remorse (initially) just because of the novelty of the motion controls.

Next gen is going to be interesting and it will bring some significant changes but I don't believe it's going to carry the novelty and dramatic change brought about due to motion controls and the integration of XBL and PSN.

It's going to be a typical next-gen.

Better graphics, an initial dip in creativity regarding IP and game mechanics and by about year two or year three, we'll start seeing some really interesting/impressive stuff.
 
I'm hoping first person shooter games abandon the regenerating health system next generation. What I want is more compelling squad AI in single player campaigns. Look at Killzone for example. Instead of taking cover waiting for your health to regenerate, the game should provide commands like "Medic I need a health pack!" But here's the catch. The medic can't bring you health packs around heavy fire, so the player has to intuitively give support fire so the medic has a clear path. Also, if the medic dies during combat the player has to revive him otherwise damage taken will not recover. A reliance on squad AI can freshen the fps experience by taking immersion to a level we have yet to see. Increasing the players immersion is the future of gaming in genres like the fps. Increases in animation will achieve this as well. Recovering health by running over health packs breaks the immersion. The solution is simple. Put the health pack in the players inventory so they grab it, take cover and use a button press to initiate an ejection animation or something along those lines to keep the player immersed in the experience. Incorporating these small details intensifies the action. Not only are you worrying about aggressive enemy AI from advancing on your line but also keeping your squad alive. We are at a point in gaming where the little things will prove to be most important among gimmicky innovations in game play. Of course, what I'm suggesting requires game developers to stop the hand holding. Core game play mechanics should be simple by boiling down the unnecessary gimmicks. FPS should simply control well and offer satisfying gun play; the core game play mechanics of the genre. Blending immersion and solid, simple core game play mechanics is the key to creating amazing games and hopefully we see this combination more often next generation.
 
This has nothing to do with tech, and more with money. It's risky business trying to innovate when you can get by just as well with the same CoD game each year.

As for the Wii, I think Nintendo was in a position where they needed to do something drastic and I still regard it as a miracle that it worked for as long as it did. Still, it did everything but push the medium forward. On surface it may have looked like innovation, but it ended up being nothing more than a gimmick that somehow managed to appeal to a demographic that doesn't usually play games.

As always, the answer is money.
 
TTP said:
I suspect you don't really get what Move (or motion control in general) is all about. It really is the most flexible control interface you can think of these days, extending the range of possible experiences and improving those already possible. I don't understand the hate.
Click to expand...
It's a superfluous addition, just like 3D at least as far as the PS3 is concerned. Any 'improvement' is wholly subjective. I don't have anything against motion controls in theory and maybe I'll change my mind in the future, but even a second of development time dedicated to implementing motion controls is a wasted second. I'm not harping against those with a penchant for motion gaming, just those who believe it should be an inextricable component of next console cycle.
 
ZackieChan said:
OP is having a failure of imagination.
Click to expand...
This x1000. Arguments beginning with "I don' see how..." or "I can't image how..." do not count.

Next-gen won't see a huge increase in visuals, no matter how many people want them. But you're selling developers short if you think they won't make a difference with the new hardware. Come on.
 
Where have I heard this "graphics bla bla bla not important any more bla bla" before?

Ah yes! Before every new generation......and it doesn't become any less stupid.
 
I'm excited about Wii U and that Nintendo are still the only guys with iron balls. Their risks force change and innovation for better or worse, making each gen more interesting to watch unfold.
 
zoukka said:
Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Better Ai should mean making it more unpredictable and dynamic. Learning if you will.
Click to expand...
Why is it always necessarily enemy AI? How about friendly AI? Every FPS makes it a habit to include a squad of derps that do nothing but herp.
 
charsace said:
The AI crying makes no sense. With the different types of path finding and behaviors you can program AI could be made unbeatable right now. But what would be the point?
Click to expand...

Who's crying? Anyway maybe if modern game design (talking about shooters here) less about the player shooting hundreds of stupid, weaker enemies, and more about having less, more evenly matched opponents, better AI could make a big difference.

Also good point about friendly AI, MuseManMike. I was playing battlefield 3 last night and holy hell your squad mates are idiots.
 
ZackieChan said:
OP is having a failure of imagination.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. I do understand why tho. It's not like developers have pushed current gen in a direction that goes beyond prettier graphics, so it's somewhat fair to assume history will repeat itself next gen despite the superior computational power.
 
zoukka said:
Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Better Ai should mean making it more unpredictable and dynamic. Learning if you will.
Click to expand...

If the AI is learning and is given better strategies then it will make the game more difficult. If you took GeOW and made it so the AI learn's a players's patterns during campaign and gave the AI better single and group strats the modes where you face AI would get much harder.
 
AI won't improve next gen. Nobody really cares. COD sells gazillions leading you along.

Graphics is what defines the generational improvement. It is the ONLY DAMN thing that will really matter for PS4 and Xbox 720.
 
Visual aspects aside, the next gen definitely needs one (or more) new defining game genre(s). Next gen won't feel new without new games, playing sequels again and again won't attract me the slightest.
 
Right. Making far more interactive and dynamic worlds is going to suck. Id hate to have increasingly destructable, interactive eviornments. Dynamic game worlds and varied objects, structures ect.

As if brining a new level of interactability, variation and choice to the game world will change anything.

Smh. :/
 
DennisK4 said:
AI won't improve next gen. Nobody really cares. COD sells gazillions leading you along.

Graphics is what defines the generational improvement. It is the ONLY DAMN thing that will really matter for PS4 and Xbox 720.
Click to expand...
You haven't spent enough time on PSN. Believe me. Any improvement could be considered generational for that terrible service.
 
TTP said:
It's not like developers have pushed current gen in a direction that goes beyond prettier graphics, so it's somewhat fair to assume history will repeat itself next gen despite the superior computational power.
Click to expand...
BS. The extra power has opened up many new possibilities. The added nuances to many games make them in a completely different league compared to last generation. Online has significantly improved. We now have achievements, DLC and other stuff that most people think adds to the experience. This entire thread is a testament about how bad people's memories are about gaming's last generation and their complete lack of imagination.

Besides, the OP completely ignores the potential of all next gens probably having a new form of input. That will change things even more.
H_Prestige said:
Not even the Wii U is using pointer controls. It's controller is basically a flattened 360 pad with a screen in the middle.
Click to expand...
It's a flattened 360 pad with camera, sensor bar, accelerometers, gyroscope, and, yes, pointer functionality which was demoed as one of its prominent features. Check your facts.

EDIT: It has a microphone too.
 
charsace said:
If the AI is learning and is given better strategies then it will make the game more difficult. If you took GeOW and made it so the AI learn's a players's patterns during campaign and gave the AI better single and group strats the modes where you face AI would get much harder.
Click to expand...

That is the developers responsibility of course. As in not making the enemies/allies frustrating to play against. It's not that big of a deal. Just make the encounters/NPC routines more interesting with this.

AI won't improve next gen. Nobody really cares. COD sells gazillions leading you along.

Graphics is what defines the generational improvement. It is the ONLY DAMN thing that will really matter for PS4 and Xbox 720.
Click to expand...

Content revolution is inevitable at some point. Dunno if it's next-gen but it will come.
 
AI hasn't improved this gen either...

Cars are still retarded and/or on rails in gran turismo, the bots in ut99 were far far far far (far far far far) better than the dumb as rocks AI in gears,modern warfare and battlefield 3 and the AI in mgs 2 and 3 is still better than pretty much anything this gen.

Storytelling? Well look at what RPGS have degenerated in, pre SE square games and the first kotor still had better stories than any of the recent bioware tripe and any of the SE games.
 
AI is one of the most abysmal fucking things... especially in most shooters. If games continue their trend toward hollywood realism, than devs will have to address it. It's a limiting factor on "immersion" when some AI enemy douche hipfiring an LMG can peg you in the skull with laser accurate aim, despite being 50 yards away, and your squad being an elite special forces group in futuristic camo laying prone in waste high foliage in the dead of fucking night. Or... have you seen the friendly AI in Mass Effect?

Good god, something has to change.
 
SneakyStephan said:
AI hasn't improved this gen either...

Cars are still retarded and/or on rails in gran turismo, the bots in ut99 were far far far far (far far far far) better than the dumb as rocks AI in gears,modern warfare and battlefield 3 and the AI in mgs 2 and 3 is still better than pretty much anything this gen.

Storytelling? Well look at what RPGS have degenerated in, pre SE square games and the first kotor still had better stories than any of the recent bioware tripe and any of the SE games.
Click to expand...

Play killzone and FEAR...i recently finished FEAR 3 and am amazed that how AI react differently
 
BurntPork said:
The difference there is that the N64/PS1 had such simple graphics that it limited gameplay. The next gen got rid of most of those limits and allowed a much different experience.

This gen, graphics aren't really limiting much. Next gen will just be this gen with more of everything and little that actually makes it feel different.
Click to expand...

I would argue that the hardware is painfully limiting this gen. Compare the wasteland of GTA IV time square to the real thing. Massive crowds and actual traffic could significantly afect gameplay in such a game.

times-square.jpg


VS

times-square-1024x768.jpg
 
charsace said:
If the AI is learning and is given better strategies then it will make the game more difficult. If you took GeOW and made it so the AI learn's a players's patterns during campaign and gave the AI better single and group strats the modes where you face AI would get much harder.
Click to expand...
I still don't really know if this is really necessary. I mean the average time between seeing the enemy and killing him is like 10 seconds? That really isn't much time to show some crazy strategies. Also and that's probably the most important factor, the common players just don't care.
 
Kurdel said:
I would argue that the hardware is painfully limiting this gen. Compare the wasteland of GTA IV time square to the real thing. Massive crowds and actual traffic could significantly afect gameplay in such a game.

http://cdn.oyun.pclabs.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/times-square.jpg

VS

[IMG]http://www.wreckamovie.com/system/task_references/0000/1818/times-square-1024x768.jpg[/QUOTE]

Great point here.

The only thing I really want is true 1080p 60fps. It makes such a difference in shooters, which is my go-to genre. But yes, RPG and general sandbox games (hell, even Assassin's Creed) would benefit grossly by hardware improvements.
Click to expand...
 
MuseManMike said:
It's a superfluous addition, just like 3D at least as far as the PS3 is concerned. Any 'improvement' is wholly subjective. I don't have anything against motion controls in theory and maybe I'll change my mind in the future, but even a second of development time dedicated to implementing motion controls is a wasted second. I'm not harping against those with a penchant for motion gaming, just those who believe it should be an inextricable component of next console cycle.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's superfluous. I'm sure you can't prefer a traditional controller over the Move to play, say, a light gun shooter nor consider a waste of development time implementing a proper point and click interface for an RTS game.

I can understand your point from a current gen developer perspective given the Move installed base compared to the DS3 one, but come next gen I can't think of a single negative of having a flexible motion control device such as the Move (or rather its evolution) as a standard control system. It accomodates if not improves the traditional gaming experience all the while allowing for new, fresh ones to be realized.

By the way, just to be sure we are on the same page here, I'm not advocating for games involving waggling and stuff like that. That's not what motion controls is all about. That's just one of its many possible applications.
 
The 3 "don't sees" the OP brings up has more to do w/ mass market appeal than anything else: AI is largely irrelevant for most games appealing to the masses (and if a game design dictated that it did then it probably isn't impossible to incorporate that already). Story will go to the sidelines if it doesn't sell copies. When an effective method is found (see: CoD4) the same mechanics of storytelling will be overused to the point that it becomes cliche within a few years. Sequels sell, so don't be expecting new and original IPs to be popping up so often.

I also don't agree that graphics is the only thing that'll be added. With the Wii it was clear most devs didn't get how to use that new control scheme. Hell, look at it now and they still don't. MS is definitely going to make Kinect a standard device on their new box though, and with that we should see core games integrate a lot of those concepts to certain levels. OoT 3D and apparently Uncharted Vita is showing how well gyro controls can assist aiming schemes, and similar ideas should be transferrable to future consoles. If we can see a transition like that of early DS games to more interesting uses we saw later in its lifecycle then there's plenty of innovation that we haven't seen yet.

And further, the more natural and intuitive control schemes get the more complex games can get because players wont be trying to remember the button press combination to access their inventory, spells, switch weapons, whatever. Used correctly, freedom from being solely confined to physical buttons will considerably widen the field in terms of gameplay possibilities.
 
Generation is just a time frame one uses a reference to help organize things in there life.
Next generation will always be next generation. The same as you will always be the 2 generations away from your grandpa even when you both old people yelling at kids.

Also next gen will not be more powerful than current high end gpu set ups but the industry will learn to use that power differently than before and create a better graphics with the same shit pc users have been using for awhile now.
 
If you're on the fence about this... just take a few moments and look over some of the concept art for modern games.

When I was a kid, I would look at the covers of games in the store, or those I had, and imagine what a game could be. I had to imagine, because the real games were something else. Fun, and my favorite indoor activity... but something else.

Each gen we move closer and closer to the cover. Or to that CGI cutscene that so impressed years ago.

There are some amazing artists in this industry. And they do incredible work translating and transforming their vision into something playable.

But we aren't there yet.

I really have questions about those who feel otherwise. Is it the industry that lacks imagination? Or is it you...
 
DCKing said:
BS. The extra power has opened up many new possibilities. The added nuances to many games make them in a completely different league compared to last generation. Online has significantly improved. We now have achievements, DLC and other stuff that most people think adds to the experience. This entire thread is a testament about how bad people's memories are about gaming's last generation and their complete lack of imagination.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with this (albeit I don't see what online has to do with it). Just saying the biggest jump was in visual fidelity so I can understand why someone can fear next gen will simply add more shine to what we are already playing today without realizing that the extra power will naturally bring those "added nuances" you refer to.
 
Evolved1 said:
If you're on the fence about this... just take a few moments and look over some of the concept art for modern games.

When I was a kid, I would look at the covers of games in the store, or those I had, and imagine what a game could be. I had to imagine, because the real games were something else. Fun, and my favorite indoor activity... but something else.

Each gen we move closer and closer to the cover. Or to that CGI cutscene that so impressed years ago.

There are some amazing artists in this industry. And they do incredible work translating and transforming their vision into something playable.

But we aren't there yet.

I really have questions about those who feel otherwise. Is it the industry that lacks imagination? Or is it you...
Click to expand...


Agreed 100%.

I want games that look like art. Don't care at this point if they are only 3-4 hours long or just a couple of maps in multiplayer

quality> quantity
 
so few games this gen have AI that's AS FUN to fight as the first Halo and the first FEAR. yes, some games hit that benchmark this gen, but better AI doesn't mean 'smarter'. more complex AI doesn't mean more complex and more challenging gameplay.

making perfect AI that knows where the player is at all times and doesn't miss has been pretty easy to achieve for a while. making something FUN to fight is much harder, and that's not touching on how garbage friendly AIs are in just about every game.

you want your AIs to be able to understand the environment they are in, so you don't have to *cheat* so they have to figure out where the player is based on what they can realistically see and hear. good AI should make human mistakes. it should be something you can fool. it should be something you can startle and panic.

you can still merely be running around and shooting as you ever did. the complexity of your abilities remain the same. remember the first time you fought Elites in Halo? it was how they reacted to you that made them awesome to fight against, not how challenging they were or weren't.
 
Better graphics has always been what most consoles have been about for their upgrades. This current gen we did see online and waggle controls come forward, but neither really made one lick of difference in my game buying decisions.

The problem I see with people complaining about "better graphics capabilities means companies need more people to make art". This is only true if those companies decide to take their game into a direction of the best possible graphics ever. Back in the 90s, two companies were known for doing this on PC, while everyone else did their own thing: iD Software and Epic Games. They made their bread and butter by purposely directing their development in those directions.

Companies do not need to do this. It is that simple. Stuff like Minecraft is showing that game play will always be king. Sure, stepping out into Skyrim is pretty awesome if you're playing on anything but a PS3, but the game could have been produced so many different ways. Bethesda has only recently pushed themselves into the realism realm, while in the past (Daggerfall and earlier) they've gone for standard fare engines loaded to the gills of content and bugs.
 
Phonomezer said:
Frankly, I'm looking forward to better performance and image quality.

And Dark Souls II at 1080p/60fps.
Click to expand...

loooooool

EDIT: Honestly, while I'm playing games today it really kind of goes over my head because I'm spoiled, but when I look through the shots posted in the High-Res PC Screenshot thread, if you had showed them to me just five years ago I'd have flipped the fuck out at how amazing games today would look. Perception.
 
AI hasn't been limited by CPU for a while. Also, the most intelligent AI generally isn't the most fun to play against (for example, think of how popular zombie maps are)

Besides, I hear every gen that the next one won't be a huge leap. I think in reality we are far from perfect. For example, next gen will allow for larger, more beautiful levels without loading times. Or a better DD service that could benefit smaller, more innovative developers.
 
I agree that Battlefield 3 at max settings certainly isn't even remotelly "next gen". Same for Witcher 2 or Crysis 2. All the hype about BF3's animation and so forth, and what did we get? Same old chicken-walking animations.

Sadly, i think that is what we'll get for the first couple years of the next gen. This gen with better textures and framerate, AA, bigger number of players at multi and maybe at 1080p.
 
hardware is yesterday. Software is today. modern consoles are stodgy because the industry has squeezed out the creativity because it isn't profitable in the short run. Without a much better avenue for indie games (and adventurous but small games from larger publishers) to be accessible, we're in for a prettier and more homogeneous version of yesterday.

Above all, reduce costs and barriers to entry. I'm not optimistic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DrUckmann is essentially a next-gen Kojima
Analysis  2 3 4 5
236
9K
Balducci30 replied
  • Poll
Switch 2…a true next gen Switch or a Switch Pro?
3 4 5 6 7
334
10K
Soapbox Killer replied
COD leaker: MW4 (2026) skipping last gen, in dev on next-gen Xbox dev kits
2 3 4 5
220
10K
HeisenbergFX4 replied
Rocksteady’s Next Batman Game Being Developed Using Unreal Engine 5. Targeting Cross-Gen Launch With PS5, Series S|X, and Next-Gen Consoles!
News Rumor Hype  2
89
3K
Feel Like I'm On 42 replied
Graphical fidelity I expect next gen
26
2K
ResetEraVetVIP replied
Top Bottom