DeaconKnowledge
Member
Tethered to a stationary device. That is Way too high of a drawback for Skype to be successful on XBOX.
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Why Skype and a TV Tuner Could Be Killer Apps
- Thread starter michaelpachter
- Start date
Interfectum
Member
I don't think you understand what killer app means. If no one is buying Xbox because of Skype (not the 16 year old, not grandma according to you), then it's not a killer app. It's simply a neat feature. Your visions of Skype TV chat becoming the new standard in home communications is just Microsoft marketing doing it's job on you.
brain_stew
Member
Never really thought about the TV tuner in that way. Certainly an interesting propositional but unless ISP's around the world work something out, it seems like a pipe-dream. An awesome IPTV dream.
I wonder how many companies are willing to drop their on boxes in order to support MS and push (possibly) worldwide. As someone from the UK, I would kill for MS to get it working since we always miss out on the more advanced XBL features that the US seem to get.
As for Skype, the more is gets integrated, the better it will be. Killer app? Maybe not but I am sure MS linking it in as the default Voice Comms and video chat feature for the 720 can only be a good thing.
The 360 already offers a full IPTV service from the largest pay TV player in the market (Sky).
baxter2231
Member
Kudos to you for making the thread and providing in-depth reasoning for the predictions.
Thing is this would be aimed more at a casual crowd, they to me seem very unpredictable who knows what they will like. They may not care because of the reasons other people have stated or they may fall head over heals for it. Assuming that is what they are planning.
Having skype is not a far out idea, they bought it why not have it especially when they are pushing the kinect so much. The thing is i cant see it being a reason to buy a system for it, especially as others have stated having so many devices. Why buy grandma the xbox when you can get a cheap tablet? The tablet can be anywhere including the living room. Why would the xbox be easier to use for the grandma then other means?
As far as the tv thing goes nothing you stated would prevent sony or nintendo doing such a thing other then ms having attaining contracts with all the cable companies. No special hardware etc. The point of having the companies expand would be a great incentive for them though. Just cant see it working very well.I'm no techie but it seems to be the internet atm is no where near capable of providing a good enough service to make this thing run smooth. Especially in the US. Plus if they were to do this type of service why force themselves into a corner with a contract with only ms and not go for mobile devices aswell? Unless the contracts just so they cant go to any other console makers thus leaving mobile devices possible?
Thing is this would be aimed more at a casual crowd, they to me seem very unpredictable who knows what they will like. They may not care because of the reasons other people have stated or they may fall head over heals for it. Assuming that is what they are planning.
Having skype is not a far out idea, they bought it why not have it especially when they are pushing the kinect so much. The thing is i cant see it being a reason to buy a system for it, especially as others have stated having so many devices. Why buy grandma the xbox when you can get a cheap tablet? The tablet can be anywhere including the living room. Why would the xbox be easier to use for the grandma then other means?
As far as the tv thing goes nothing you stated would prevent sony or nintendo doing such a thing other then ms having attaining contracts with all the cable companies. No special hardware etc. The point of having the companies expand would be a great incentive for them though. Just cant see it working very well.I'm no techie but it seems to be the internet atm is no where near capable of providing a good enough service to make this thing run smooth. Especially in the US. Plus if they were to do this type of service why force themselves into a corner with a contract with only ms and not go for mobile devices aswell? Unless the contracts just so they cant go to any other console makers thus leaving mobile devices possible?
outsida
Member
I Have a strong feeling that Skype is going to become the communications backbone for the nextbox and the newest iteration of xbox live. As far as it being a killer app it depends on how seamless Microsoft gets the integration of the service to the console. I can see the IPTV service happening because they've already talked about and implemented that on the 360. Though I'm not so sure the casual consumers are ready to flock to the xbox just for a feature like that. Again their interface and implementation would need to be near flawless for it to be a huge success.
Trogdor1123
Member
The biggest deal here is the obviously the subscription and the reduced hardware costs. Have we ever seen some numbers from ms regarding how well the program worked on the 360?
That being said I can easily see Sony doing it with PS4 and PS+ (infact i wish they would as i plan on having both).
That being said I can easily see Sony doing it with PS4 and PS+ (infact i wish they would as i plan on having both).
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Not just ISP's. Content providers would rebel wholesale against something like that.Never really thought about the TV tuner in that way. Certainly an interesting propositional but unless ISP's around the world work something out, it seems like a pipe-dream. An awesome IPTV dream.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I still think the Skype thing is crazy. There's already been plenty of opportunities for video chat to become a big deal in the many devices that already supported, and it never ever has. Why would that change for the next Xbox?
But i certainly agree that TV tuning could be a game changer. If people can get a $200 or less xbox just by buying a subscription to something they were probably going to buy anyway, that would be huge for overall numbers sold.
Those sound like very hard contracts to make work though. Microsoft and ISPs still needs to make a profit. I can't imagine someone like Comcast would let Microsoft keep 100% of the royalties of software sold on the Xbox market place through it's service. Not when such a deal would pretty much kill their own On Demand service that I'm sure Comcast is making money on.
As for the selective internet cap thing, wouldn't that be opening a huge legal can of worms?
But i certainly agree that TV tuning could be a game changer. If people can get a $200 or less xbox just by buying a subscription to something they were probably going to buy anyway, that would be huge for overall numbers sold.
Those sound like very hard contracts to make work though. Microsoft and ISPs still needs to make a profit. I can't imagine someone like Comcast would let Microsoft keep 100% of the royalties of software sold on the Xbox market place through it's service. Not when such a deal would pretty much kill their own On Demand service that I'm sure Comcast is making money on.
As for the selective internet cap thing, wouldn't that be opening a huge legal can of worms?
MikeE21286
Member
Echoing your sentiments with Skype.
The TV side is cool for me because I only have 1 cable box.
The other scenario you described is intriguing.
The TV side is cool for me because I only have 1 cable box.
The other scenario you described is intriguing.
oh god what have i done
TV tuner is ridiculous for a couple reasons:
1) You don't need a TV tuner for IPTV. X360 and PS3 could do IPTV tomorrow if the right app came out. Technically they already do--it's called Netflix. But it's exactly the same process as serving Netflix, just a different API and network infrastructure.
2) An actual cable TV tuner would drastically increase the cost of the device because it would need to be certified, and that is both time-consuming and expensive.
3) The "TiVo tax"--paying both the TV provider (for the signal) and Microsoft (XBL) to use it. How many will just stick with what they have and save the extra monthly charge?
As far as Skype is concerned, all I have to say is: LOL. All that wide-angle lens is going to bring is wide-angle compression artifacts. There's no benefit for the family, and "grandma" will have better luck with an iPad than a game console.
1) You don't need a TV tuner for IPTV. X360 and PS3 could do IPTV tomorrow if the right app came out. Technically they already do--it's called Netflix. But it's exactly the same process as serving Netflix, just a different API and network infrastructure.
2) An actual cable TV tuner would drastically increase the cost of the device because it would need to be certified, and that is both time-consuming and expensive.
3) The "TiVo tax"--paying both the TV provider (for the signal) and Microsoft (XBL) to use it. How many will just stick with what they have and save the extra monthly charge?
As far as Skype is concerned, all I have to say is: LOL. All that wide-angle lens is going to bring is wide-angle compression artifacts. There's no benefit for the family, and "grandma" will have better luck with an iPad than a game console.
I predicted that nextbox would have a tv tuner even before patcher.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46690437&postcount=3874
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46690437&postcount=3874
I personally don't buy skype as a killer feature because its available on other devices.
However I do view the tv tuner as a potential killer feature but I see them doing it differently than you do. I don't think caps are going away so what xbox's iptv service would be is they install mediaroom servers in each of the cable companies datacenter's. Because it's all internal traffic the stream would not count against your bw cap and you could be sure things like latency or capacity would not be an issue.
Then partner with the cable company to sell you an xbox instead of the traditional tv box using the subsidized model they have been using for a while now. The advantage to the cable company is they don't have to buy all that hardware and deal with the maintenance issues. Xbox benefits because they sell far more consoles and if the xbox is your primary tv service as well as gaming machine its always on. That makes the xbox live social network even more powerful if everybody is always online.
However I do view the tv tuner as a potential killer feature but I see them doing it differently than you do. I don't think caps are going away so what xbox's iptv service would be is they install mediaroom servers in each of the cable companies datacenter's. Because it's all internal traffic the stream would not count against your bw cap and you could be sure things like latency or capacity would not be an issue.
Then partner with the cable company to sell you an xbox instead of the traditional tv box using the subsidized model they have been using for a while now. The advantage to the cable company is they don't have to buy all that hardware and deal with the maintenance issues. Xbox benefits because they sell far more consoles and if the xbox is your primary tv service as well as gaming machine its always on. That makes the xbox live social network even more powerful if everybody is always online.
Mihos
Gold Member
The tuner card part sounds slightly interesting, but considering I can't get HD without the cable company's or satellite provider's box and there is no way I will ever get my wife to use it since all it does for her is get in the way of using the features already built into our TV. Why would she want to power on a second box? She can't even keep track of one remote.
Skype is cool and all, but we don't even talk on the phone anymore (text), so adding video to the mix just simply isn't going to happen in our house. Especially where our xbox is located (bedrooms).
Just make good games and I will buy it. All this set top box stuff we already have.
Skype is cool and all, but we don't even talk on the phone anymore (text), so adding video to the mix just simply isn't going to happen in our house. Especially where our xbox is located (bedrooms).
Just make good games and I will buy it. All this set top box stuff we already have.
Thanks for the clarification Michael. Kind of knew what you meant with Skype. Did you ever hear about this attempt here in the UK with IPTV for the 360? http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/bt-vision-through-xbox-360. Didn't come to fruition but was clearly something Microsoft was aiming at even in 2008.
Edit: And a slightly more detailed article showing what was going to be offered. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7178661.stm
XtremeXpider
Member
Have fun talking to yourself and barely acknowledging points or arguments, it's been fun.
Also, for anyone with an older relative, they'll understand that tying communication to one point in a house is a bad idea. Portable communication is a far better idea for older people - be it a cordless phone vs a wired one for voice calls, or a smart device vs a fixed TV for video calls (if that is to become 'a thing').
Sorry to harp on on the grandma thing, but it really made me wonder how much 'analysis' was done here
Sorry to harp on on the grandma thing, but it really made me wonder how much 'analysis' was done here
NemesisPrime
Banned
If it is a killer app.. no it won't.
And the reason Skype might be important is BECAUSE it is available on almost all devices. Your TV will suddenly be connected to just about the whole planet*
* expect PS4 users.
GenericUser
Member
Gaming Consoles need killer games not killer apps. My two cents.
nopenopenope
Member
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Voice of Reason
Banned
That's what you think now. When it's out, you'll use it less than twice.
You could always do this to make it even easier.
Not many years ago and people were saying "We don't need a tablet, we already have a PC that does internet browning and music!"
Times change.
Remember when phones were about talking exclusively
grimshawish
Banned
This is a very good point. Skype TV is a nice thing but relatively niche.
Skype will probably be along with other software to work through Smart Glass or whatever its called.
Durango was suppose to be the next step in this device convergence strategy although sense would suggest MS would change this strategy.
That's true to a certain extent. Video calls were hyped in the late 90s to be the next big thing but it never happened. Not even on smartphones.
However this is a different approach as back in the days. When talking vis-a-vis on the phone, nobody needs video if it is not related to sex. Pachters grandma example may be not the best, but if you are a bunch of people and want to contact someone the concept sounds great.
In theory you could do a conference, but nobody actually does this. If you hang out with friends and you see a friend is online, you could call him by a simple voice command and convince him/her to come over to join the party. You can do this on any PC, but people use different services and there is no widescreen camera.
And then there is also the adult industry ...
We learnt from the wii, that things can take off and reach audiences where "no man has gone before".
Neuromancer
Member
I never said it was a killer app. Literally all I said was PSP1 had it and I used it a few times.
I don't see the TV subscription thing happening that way. It is well known that Sony, Apple, and MS have all been trying to offer such a service but been blocked at every step by the ISPs and Cable Providers. Why are things going to change now? I certainly don't see ISPs allowing other cable providers to stream over their networks.
I do see cable companies offering the next Xbox as a set top box option for their existing or new customers with access to plenty of OnDemand and live TV and an easy Kinect interface ("Xbox record the Lakers game tomorrow").
I do see cable companies offering the next Xbox as a set top box option for their existing or new customers with access to plenty of OnDemand and live TV and an easy Kinect interface ("Xbox record the Lakers game tomorrow").
RedNumberFive
Banned
All of my friends and family already use FaceTime exclusively. I'm not sure why they would switch just for a wide angle view.
Well for one since it's Skype it wouldn't be limited from console-to-console. You could call anything that is skype enabled.
Because then you could see the whole family instead of just one person. This would also be great for businesses. Videoconferencing hardware/software for businesses make a ridiculous amount of money.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
PS3 doesn't have a Facebook or Twitter app
The Vita does aswell as a Skype app. I don't see why it wouldn't
Technically, it will be from console to console, because everyone will be buying xbox's for it
Dr.Palutena
Member
I like that you took the time to elaborate on your predictions, kudos. I think the Skype thing could work but at the same time, tablets have won that battle and I dont see the appeal of living room chat, especially for grandma, anymore than just buying her a tablet, unless this thing is subsidized to be way cheaper than a tablet. The tv tuner idea, is well thought out, but has way to many what ifs for me to think it has a chance of happening, unless microsoft is really gunning for this, and even then it seems unlikely.
Mihos
Gold Member
Welcome to the infinite Apple logic loop.
Video calls were the Holy Grail of communication starting at least from the 1960's with the video phone call in the movie 2001 right up until the point where suddenly most people had phones capable of making video calls. And what do people do with these amazing video-capable handheld supercomputers?
Send telegrams to each other.
And it's because people slowly discovered as silly as it seems, text messaging is highly convenient in many instances, even polite and less invasive than a regular phone call. Sometimes killer apps are something simple that happens to fill in a niche that people weren't even aware existed.
As soon as Apple announce it, the everyone will need it!
Story that one of my colleagues actually told me today. His father was Skyping with him and apparently needed help setting up a newfangled cable box. As the descriptions of parts and plugs went nowhere, he turned on video. Then picked up the laptop to use it as a portable video camera and showed my colleague the back of the TV setup with all the plugs and cables, so he could give some advice what to connect and how.
The image that went through my head when I saw this thread was a man carrying a 50" LCD TV, and shoving it between a wall and another 50" LCD TV.
I see your point (that it's different than what they're currently doing with their video chat apps), but does that make it a "killer app" for the 360?
CoconutTank
Member
Well in Pachter's specific example, he cited video conferencing via Skype as being compelling enough such that a family would buy two Durangos in order to talk between the family and grandma:
If this is the default scenario that we are going to work with, then I don't see how getting 2 Wii Us just for video conferencing is much different than getting 2 Durangos to do the same. In either case, a family is buying two pieces of expensive hardware, the hardware cannot be used practically while outside of the house, and the hardware requires an internet connection. Presumably the Durango will require being plugged in to a TV to be fully realized, while the Wii U won't need a TV.
I agree that the ubiquity of Skype gives more flexibility for Microsoft, so I think your scenario seems more plausible than Pachter's; the family will pick up a Durango and grandma will sign up for a free account of Skype and contact the family using the device(s) available to her. But if Skype's ubiquity with currently available devices is going to be a factor, then I'm not sure why the family needs to pick up a Durango in the first place to make this work.
Also afaik, if the Wii U is off, it will not have any means of letting you know when someone has contacted you for video conferencing. Afaik (I haven't used it myself), when someone contacts you for video conferencing, the home button on your Wii U Gamepad will glow blue to let you know someone is calling you. You can then press the home button to pick up the call. Basically any sign of there being an incoming call is fairly subdued.
Personally, I think video conferencing is not a casual affair; I don't call or start up a video call out of the blue with my friends, usually we start with IMs to figure out who's online and who's ready to go, then start up a Skype meeting for something like DotA2. I would think (though I can be wrong) it's the same thing for contact between family; usually a time and place would be scheduled for any kind of video conferencing between grandma and the rest of the family. As an example, when my cousin and uncle were going to do facetime via smartphones, they would normally IM each other to make sure they had the right time and space for that, rather than one contacting the other with facetime at will.
Edit: Didn't finish when I posted (oops), but the point of my last paragraph is that, I don't really care about the Wii U not being on all the time, since the need to do video conferencing is a very deliberate thing that doesn't need it to be on all the time.
Hopefully they'll have more interesting plans for Europe too, this time.
Even though i understand it's complicated, given all the different countries to keep track of (not to mention all the rest of the world, of course) it's still a lot of attention to matters that most of us will not be able to enjoy.
Even though i understand it's complicated, given all the different countries to keep track of (not to mention all the rest of the world, of course) it's still a lot of attention to matters that most of us will not be able to enjoy.
People buy game consoles to play games so if you are betting on anything other than games to be the killer app you are wrong. Like others have said skype didn't push Vita sales and video conference is not doing much for Wii U.
People can already have a fully on demand TV experience using Amazon Video, Hulu, Netflix, along with whatever on demand service their cable provider or others have. My TV has all those services and skype.
In all michaelpachter didn't mention anything that can't already be done with what people already have.
People can already have a fully on demand TV experience using Amazon Video, Hulu, Netflix, along with whatever on demand service their cable provider or others have. My TV has all those services and skype.
In all michaelpachter didn't mention anything that can't already be done with what people already have.
NoirVisage
Banned
Ah, got ya now.
quickwhips
Member
Skype will probably be used so people can watch you play games like PS4 does or stream video of the person or both. Skype is a awesome powerful tool and I'm sure if vita was allowed to use it like microsoft will that it would have helped it sell more.
...nvm...staying away from this mess.
Wait no I am not.
This is just ...really bad.
And I can envision the E3 presentation now where the use that bullet point right now actually and how well that would go over.
SKype can be fantastic, living room chat can be awesome.
Let's be real, it will be fantastic if there is a richer video chat capability and it is used for something other than flashing your junk during games of UNO on live but as a selling point?
Things like this exist, it is even built into some tvs these days.
Reasonable, but for one problem: My Mum's a grandma, and perfectly content doing all that - video chat with her grandkids all the way in New Zealand - on her laptop. Has been doing it for, what, five years now?
I think you might be underestimating the capabilities of the average grandma. Although, I do have to concede, my Mum *is* awesome.
The wide-angle lens point is valid, and nice, but doesn't strike me as the key element that changes things from "Much the same as we currently have with a nicer UI" to "Killer app".
Mmmm, I interpreted 'tv tuner' as, well, a tv tuner (and therefore the resulting benefits being of the DVR nature). Sending TV through the 'net is indeed awesome - which is why I do it so much with BBC iPlayer, itv Player, Channel 4 On Demand. I'm not quite sure why the Xbox's form of doing it is a killer app when I have all the functionality right here and now... but then, you said it was US-centric, so I dunno if you've got more to say about why what they'd be offering is an improvement on the status quo for the UK. And of course, Microsoft can't legally charge for iPlayer functionality (or rather, the BBC can't offer iPlayer to a company wanting to charge for it), just for good measure.
Remember when games consoles had games as killer apps? If this is what sells games consoles next generation, then fuck next gen.
My gran already went out and pre-ordered the next xbox because she doesn't know how to use skype on ipad.I dont have a gran
I'm sorry for your loss.
tehrik-e-insaaf
Member
I don't understand. You yourself barely admit to knowing the current situation of Skype, not even aware of having used it, who currently owns it, you just learned it's on Vita, and you are giving him a hats off for an "elaborate" explanation - by what standard, length of OP?
Also, was running the "screw the Pachter-haters" commentary necessary? You risk trivializing the efforts of people who are legitimately commenting on his opinions by becoming the opposite of the people who you want to criticize. I mean, whatever works for you is great, but I guess it just seems odd that you are praising him without actually understanding the situation or checking his facts (11.5 billion acquisition was actually 8.5 billion as an example)