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Why the PlayStation 5 still using Bluray will make most of its revealed specs useless and void, and why they should ditch it for alternatives.

Poor analogy with VHS. One physical media replaced by a better one.

You can still buy vinyl, CDs, DVDs, and BR, and that is not going away anytime soon.

The markets and economy will crash before they would ever go away.

Yes, the replacement is called a flash drive. It's 10x smaller, made of less material, can hold more information, said information is faster to access, it can be written to, it can be read with a much cheaper device, and it will soon cost even less than a disc to manufacture.

And yes, you can still buy NEW VHS tapes. Guess what, they never went away. They are still manufactured. They niche tho.

Wake me up when the quality is close and U can still own my games / movies ;). Why do you see so eager for us to stop buying disc content ;)?

You don't own anything. It's all under licence. I 'own' ~500 movies on one of my hard drives, simply because I don't like film cases and discs taking up room on my shelves and had to put them in boxes. It's called me moving on with the times. You niche bro.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yes, the replacement is called a flash drive. It's 10x smaller, made of less material, can hold more information, said information is faster to access, it can be written to, it can be read with a much cheaper device, and it will soon cost even less than a disc to manufacture.

And yes, you can still buy NEW VHS tapes. Guess what, they never went away. They are still manufactured. They niche tho.

I’ll believe it being cheaper when I see it. There is far more of a silicon shortage going on in this world then there is disc production.
 
The amount of plastic and silicon used in discs and flash drives is 0.00001% of what is used elsewhere. There will never be a shortage of either for data storage applications.
 
Switch cartridges are not writable and there's a reason for that. Please educate yourself before demanding ridiculous things.
 
If they exclude an optical drive, they can then lower the percentage cut on each game sale and still come out ahead. Imagine if your console is ~20% less to manufacture out of the gate.

Are you suggesting Sony and Microsoft will lower their cut on game sales, meaning less profits, to help publishers offset the added costs of using sd cards?

...

giphy.gif
 
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The suggestion came from the other guys' argument that Sony gives a shit about publishers/devs having to pay for flash storage-psss they don't. They know if their platform sells cough switch cough devs and publishers will pay premium to get their games on said platform. It was a hypothetical solution to a non-problem posed as a problem by optical media clutching soccer moms.

It is clear we are conflicted on the issue of optical media vs flash memory. It is thus pertinent to challenge all of you to a duel to the death in the pit of despair.
 
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CJY

Banned
Optical media is dead as the dodo in relative terms. It grows more dead with every passing month. Time to let go chaps. I know, it took years to wean people off the VHS too, but it happened.
I have yet to watch planet earth 2 cos I’m waiting for a UHD drive. NEtflix 4K just doesn’t cut it for me.
 

CJY

Banned
I see a derivation of NFC with download happening as a key before flash memory as a standard storage medium for games to be honest.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
I have yet to watch planet earth 2 cos I’m waiting for a UHD drive. NEtflix 4K just doesn’t cut it for me.

Smart choice. The Planet Earth 2 UHDs are my go-to demo discs whenever I show someone my setup. It's jaw-dropping.
 
So since you are bumping some of your old but recent threads, I thought this would be a fun one to come back to.

Here's my favorite part of the OP:

ANOTHER BIG REASON why Bluray needs to be kicked from the PS5, is because people ARE DYING. Bluray has been dangerous for years, but because money has pushed it artificially to the frontlines for years, it's been causing damage to peoples bodies, making them blind, giving them cancer and other illness related diseases, produced radiations, and other big problems:

https://www.gearbest.com/blog/how-to/the-harm-and-source-of-blu-ray-3224


Most people are ill-informed so don't realize the many things they use daily causing massive permanent harm to the. But the millions of people sick or deceased due to the dangers of Bluray as shown above is something that corporations should be forced to answer for. Especially Sony and Microsoft which have been pedaling the format into the electronic consumer gaming industry.

The damage is irreversible.

;)

I just remembered I made a response thread to this as well, lol "illness related diseases":

 

Gargus

Banned
Of course they will go blu ray. Why wouldn't they?

It costs less since it's a well used technology format. Using something new requires a greater expense from everything to needing new production equipment to create and write the media, to higher media cost since it isn't as readily available. That cost gets passed to the consumer.

It's just storage media. It isn't like that has anything to actually do with the games themselves. Ps5 can simply write more to the drive, or as they said developers can option in to give the player the ability for the game to only install from the disc sp or mp. Kind of like that one call of duty where you could install either sp or mp or both. Dev's can also do micro pre loading off the disc as you play. There are a lot of tricks.

Everything you said about 4k is completely irrelevant to this argument. That applies to movies and the physical movie format is slowly dwindling in favor of streaming. It has nothing to do with gaming, and you can still buy the games digitally also. Blu ray is simply a container for the game itself. So you saying 4k is dying means absolutely nothing here.

I'm sure the ps6 or whatever will have a new format to it and this generation the worst we will see is some games with 2 discs. 1 probably a install and 1 a play disc.

But yes bd is 25 and 50 GB discs. But they can also employ bdxl which can hold up to 300gb of data.

You're doomsday scenario of the ps5 being limited simply by media is completely just an alarmists point of view.

People cried about CD format also towards the end of its life but in the end it was fine till it was replaced with a worthy successor. Same thing with cartridges before that. Then they did it again towards the end of the DVD format with same results and everything was fine. Then you had format innovators that failed because they rushed an inferior format like the gdrom and HD dvd.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
So since you are bumping some of your old but recent threads, I thought this would be a fun one to come back to.

Here's my favorite part of the OP:



;)

I just remembered I made a response thread to this as well, lol "illness related diseases":

There was absolutely no reason to resurrect this trash of a thread.
tenor2.gif
 
So since you are bumping some of your old but recent threads, I thought this would be a fun one to come back to.

Here's my favorite part of the OP:



;)

I just remembered I made a response thread to this as well, lol "illness related diseases":


No one had ever proven the link in the OP wrong, which proved the adverse health risks from credible researchers. So thanks for resurrecting this thread without proving it wrong yet again.
 

ANIMAL1975

Member
What the heck is that contraption in Wills hand wuaaa...
Hei what the heck is that contraption in Wills haaa...
Fuck dude what the heck is that contraption inaaa...
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
It’s using the high capacity blu disks isn’t it, the 100gb ones?

Anything less is suicide and anything more is insane.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
I heard 3 people died because the bluray laser melted their eyes and fried their brains and 1 sweet grandma was decapitated by a bluray disc projected by a malfunctioning ps4.
I'm kinda scared of buying a next gen console. :messenger_fearful:
 

molasar

Banned
I heard 3 people died because the bluray laser melted their eyes and fried their brains and 1 sweet grandma was decapitated by a bluray disc projected by a malfunctioning ps4.
I'm kinda scared of buying a next gen console. :messenger_fearful:
Only if they used a phased plasma rifle technology in the 40-watt range.

85C74AF4DEB3740504F75E5C0830FA5846DDB7A2
 
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It baffles me how people think that 10 Mbps video can compare with 40-50 Mbps one :/...
Bitrate? What's what?!

The 4K bullet point is all that matters!

I heard 3 people died because the bluray laser melted their eyes and fried their brains and 1 sweet grandma was decapitated by a bluray disc projected by a malfunctioning ps4.
I'm kinda scared of buying a next gen console. :messenger_fearful:
Is that why they don't release transparent home consoles anymore?
 

Dipsed

Member
It has been revealed in the same interview as the "PS5 Specs" that the PS5 will continue to use bluray. Not only does that show innovation in the physical space is dead, but will actually be a detriment to the specs "cerny" was touting. I was expecting at least using the niche improved and digital supported digital disc format bu they have decided for costs sake to keep a drive that's going to cause massive issues for the PS5.

Here are the primary issues with this terrible move:

1. Bluray is already dead, Sony can't save it, and 4K Bluray won't suddenly get an uptick in 1-2 years when 4K is standard. They aren't going to get any profits from their physical movie division from this, and many of their old partners from 2006-8 have jumped ship.

2. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the PS5 and say loads will take one second if you are still using Bluray. When you install from Bluray you're also running the Bluray data and codecs on the machine, which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that format is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM. Even if you were to add a bit of laser disc read, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside Digital games.

3. With #2 being true it begs the question for why they don't either go with the new Advanced Digital discs or just scrap discs altogether and go all digital for the PS5? It doesn't make sense to hype an SSD drive if the SSD drive doesn't do anything. Actually having games load in a second would be a great sales pitch and would be considerably more profitable. It would also result in your console being cheaper to produce.

4. Blurays death is clearly at hand with even big boys like Samsung running for the hills. There isn't a major financial pool to pull from for it in 2019. Which means that since 2018, it's been becoming more and more expensive gradually to produce Bluray media. Since there's no competition and not many people throwing money into the pool, the price of BR is now going up or staying the same. Inevitably Bluray will become more of a rarity and the losses will outpace the profits by a considerable margin.

5. Even if we remove #4 and talk about Bluray TODAY, it's still too expensive and not at a mass market price. As regular Bluray is just starting to hit that, 4K Bluray has come and made old BluRay irrelevant. So we once again have an expensive format. Bluray has never and will never hit the DVD price point and never will until its dead and sold in bargin bins.

6. There's no consumer incentive anymore. Digital giveaways with Bluray discs have failed to get people interested. A desperate strategy used to salvage the format, and now there's nothing left but the current "marginal" quality advantage of a physical disc. It's 2019, we have digital tech that beats regular Blu-ray and now have some that support HDR, Vision, and other features. Things are moving much faster than before, and that marginal advantage will be gone in 1-2 years. A side-effect of 4k Bluray being just an upressed regular Bluray with no problems addressed. Lack of innovation.

7. Microsoft is pushing its competitors format more than Sony, who's been working with the rest of the BR club to try and save the failing format. The Xbox One S and the X are the only console Trojan Horsing the Blu-Ray format, and Sony's refusal to add it to the Slim and both variations of the Pro was Sony's chance to try and spread 4K Bluray world wide. Instead Sony acted like fools, and ignored pushing their own format. That was likely the last chance to get it to work. Having two companies have 4K Bluray across nearly 200 million consumers. Now 4K Bluray will be niche format on the PS5 (assuming that they even use it) for physical gamers. Which as I mentioned above, screw up the PS5.

8. The New Advanced Digital Disc Format Sony is ignoring in favor of Bluray would allow Sony to have high quality quick reads that can immediately download in real-time while playing instead of requiring DRM installs. It's like we are stuck in 2006 because of Sony's lack of moving into the future. If Sony wants to have 1 second load times on a Bluray disc, they'll have to, as I said above, use part of the disc reader along with the installed game to speed it up. Issue with that is such tactics increases latency causing not only input lag but framerate lag as well.

9. Most Games are rendered with Digital sponsored tools that "downgrade" when formatting them to Bluray. It's the same with Movies, the tools are too advanced to update the Bluray tools to keep up, so they have to downgrade certain graphical features and image quality to get things on a Bluray. The only reason why Bluray contains an advantage is because of streaming, which is close to passing 4K Bluray. But when looking at Digital uncompressed to disc uncompressed, there's no competition. This means that non-streaming digital downloads on the PS5 will LOOK BETTER than Discs. Making keeping Bluray pointless.

The conclusion is simple, there's still time, either make an all digital device, or trade Bluray for the Advanced Digital Disc, which has a faster transfer rate, can load in seconds, can download in real-time, and can be sued as temporary memory or Vram storage in real-time. While also supporting higher resolutions and features since it's meant to be future proof and modular.

Cerny touting some of the features the PS5 will have is pointless if it can't actually be done. We aren't in 2006 anymore, it's time to realize the format from its inception failed, a lot of people have lost money, and even more people are losing money NOW and even leaving YOU behind because they can't take the red anymore. You can't save Bluray so give up. You came out of a bad time and made Sony a relevant name again in many areas, however Bluray and Phones are literally costing you billions of dollars because you keep chasing after an imaginary pot of gold that will never happen. Abandon Bluray now(and phones) and actually provide a console your fans will care about instead of talking about graphical features that will be hampered by Bluray or SSD drives that won't do anything for Bluray games at all and only for digital.

Edit:

ANOTHER BIG REASON why Bluray needs to be kicked from the PS5, is because people ARE DYING. Bluray has been dangerous for years, but because money has pushed it artificially to the frontlines for years, it's been causing damage to peoples bodies, making them blind, giving them cancer and other illness related diseases, produced radiations, and other big problems:

https://www.gearbest.com/blog/how-to/the-harm-and-source-of-blu-ray-3224


Most people are ill-informed so don't realize the many things they use daily causing massive permanent harm to the. But the millions of people sick or deceased due to the dangers of Bluray as shown above is something that corporations should be forced to answer for. Especially Sony and Microsoft which have been pedaling the format into the electronic consumer gaming industry.

The damage is irreversible.
Man this clown that’s probably here on behave of Microsoft or stadia spreading misinformation should just stop it. Dude so you are supposed to know better than a multi billion dollar company that has top engineers Working on the console.

I don’t care how much misinformation you spread we are not going all digital. Now now and hopefully not ever. Most consumers want options and that’s the bottom line.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Man this clown that’s probably here on behave of Microsoft or stadia spreading misinformation should just stop it. Dude so you are supposed to know better than a multi billion dollar company that has top engineers Working on the console.

I don’t care how much misinformation you spread we are not going all digital. Now now and hopefully not ever. Most consumers want options and that’s the bottom line.
No, he has no agenda. It's just Freedom Gate being Freedom Gate, there is even a gif made for his threads (i don't have the link, but it must be somewhere in this thread too).
 
1. Bluray is already dead, Sony can't save it, and 4K Bluray won't suddenly get an uptick in 1-2 years when 4K is standard. They aren't going to get any profits from their physical movie division from this, and many of their old partners from 2006-8 have jumped ship.

4. Blurays death is clearly at hand

So is blu ray dead, dying, or it it dying from death? It can't be both dead and dying at once.


2. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the PS5 and say loads will take one second if you are still using Bluray. When you install from Bluray you're also running the Bluray data and codecs on the machine, which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that format is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM. Even if you were to add a bit of laser disc read, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside Digital games.

I need someone to translate this for me because I don't even have the slightest clue what this says. Apparently the SSD will be slower because the DRM puts pressure on the laser? What?
 
Apparently the SSD will be slower because the DRM puts pressure on the laser? What?

Why is this so difficult for people to get?

Sony wants to use an SSD for fast loading, if you download a digital game it will load fast. Simple.

But if you install a Blu Ray game into the SSD, it's not the same as downloading a game that was already published on an online store digital-ready. The code and codecs that were used to place the game data on the Blu Ray disc will still be in the game data when you install to the SSD. So you won't see much advantage to the SSD because that data makes the SSD work harder so it isn't as fast.
 
Why is this so difficult for people to get?

Sony wants to use an SSD for fast loading, if you download a digital game it will load fast. Simple.

But if you install a Blu Ray game into the SSD, it's not the same as downloading a game that was already published on an online store digital-ready. The code and codecs that were used to place the game data on the Blu Ray disc will still be in the game data when you install to the SSD. So you won't see much advantage to the SSD because that data makes the SSD work harder so it isn't as fast.
Are you basically saying that Cerny is wrong/lying about the SSD benefits?
 
But if you install a Blu Ray game into the SSD, it's not the same as downloading a game that was already published on an online store digital-ready. The code and codecs that were used to place the game data on the Blu Ray disc will still be in the game data when you install to the SSD. So you won't see much advantage to the SSD because that data makes the SSD work harder so it isn't as fast.

I'm sorry.

I hope you are able to get the help you need as soon as possible for your condition. I'll pray for you.
 
No, he just got confused that installing from a digital store and installing from a physical disc aren't the same thing.

He's right that store downloads will see benefits, but not those who install games from the disc.
Wait, what?!

The PS5 architect is confused about how the system he designed works? And apparently you know better than him?

Cerny promised benefits for both disc-based and digital games. Just like with the PS4 and the HDD baseline.
 

Nydus

Member
No, he just got confused that installing from a digital store and installing from a physical disc aren't the same thing.

He's right that store downloads will see benefits, but not those who install games from the disc.
Then how do you explain that games I installed from Blu-ray on my PS4 load faster when I use a ssd?
 

ultrazilla

Gold Member
The *REAL* issue here is how fast these SSD drives will fill up with the huge amounts of data these games come in at. Isn't Modern Warfare close to or over
100 gig? A one terabyte SSD drive on the PS5 and Scarlett will fill up amazingly fast since the game will be loaded from disc into the SSD memory.

I just installed Red Dead Redemption 2 Ultimate Edition PC to my 512gb SSD drive and it's taking up 110 gigs!
Gonna be funny when everyone is packing extra internal or external SSD drives on their systems just to have decent storage!
 
Yes, the replacement is called a flash drive. It's 10x smaller, made of less material, can hold more information, said information is faster to access, it can be written to, it can be read with a much cheaper device, and it will soon cost even less than a disc to manufacture.
USB drives don't have very good read/write speeds in real world scenarios, especially in random access (somehow slower than disk based medias), and a 128 drive is still much more expensive than what I expect the a BL disk, just look at the high price of Switch games, even if they are sometimes much smaller than their PS4/xbox/PC counterparts.

The PS4 drive has a 27MB/s reading speed, we can guess that the PS5's drive will be 2 ot 3 times faster.

Anyway, disk based media has been cheaper to produce so far and all it only affects is the installation time, so why make such a fuss about it is beyond me.
 
The *REAL* issue here is how fast these SSD drives will fill up with the huge amounts of data these games come in at. Isn't Modern Warfare close to or over
100 gig? A one terabyte SSD drive on the PS5 and Scarlett will fill up amazingly fast since the game will be loaded from disc into the SSD memory.

I just installed Red Dead Redemption 2 Ultimate Edition PC to my 512gb SSD drive and it's taking up 110 gigs!
Gonna be funny when everyone is packing extra internal or external SSD drives on their systems just to have decent storage!

Surely the Xbox Scarlet and PS5 will launch with 3-5 TB drives. 1 TB has been standard for current-gen consoles since 2016, there's no way they will launch with 1TB in 2020. Especially since the launch games are supposed to show off the consoles graphical prowess and will likely take up close to 200 GBs alone or more with added content.
 
Paging D dark10x

Maybe you should provide the receipts? A video comparison would be nice.


From the OP

2. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the PS5 and say loads will take one second if you are still using Bluray. When you install from Bluray you're also running the Bluray data and codecs on the machine, which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that format is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM. Even if you were to add a bit of laser disc read, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside Digital games.

3. With #2 being true it begs the question for why they don't either go with the new Advanced Digital discs or just scrap discs altogether and go all digital for the PS5? It doesn't make sense to hype an SSD drive if the SSD drive doesn't do anything. Actually having games load in a second would be a great sales pitch and would be considerably more profitable. It would also result in your console being cheaper to produce.

You can test this out yourself. Install an SSD to your PS4 and download a digital version of a game you have on disc. Play it, then swap to the disc version, install it, and play it.

Common sense.
 

Wonko_C

Member
Per stated in the OP, it's been known that blu-ray ia harmful to your eyes, especially at night before going to sleep. It's why I switched to yello-ray and what a difference has it made. I can fall asleep much faster since yello-ray helps maintain my melatonin levels higher.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Why is this so difficult for people to get?

Sony wants to use an SSD for fast loading, if you download a digital game it will load fast. Simple.

But if you install a Blu Ray game into the SSD, it's not the same as downloading a game that was already published on an online store digital-ready. The code and codecs that were used to place the game data on the Blu Ray disc will still be in the game data when you install to the SSD. So you won't see much advantage to the SSD because that data makes the SSD work harder so it isn't as fast.
975.png
 
SSD = Slow State Drive.

The Bluray adds too much ram to the bus so the SSD can't load from the servers. This results in a feedback loop that allows the DRM to bottleneck how many tereflops can trace back to the CPU without splitting the polygons.

That's why it's impossible to see faster speeds on the SSD when installed from a disc. The codecs are too complicated to run without losing integers that calculate the ray tracing format from the SVGA chip. So you need to install CGA to increase the polygon count and Vram cache.

Am I doing it right?
 
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