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[Three]

Certainly a U-turn from 9 months ago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/video-games/2024/03/06/final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-platform-exclusive/

Read the post you quote again

That's because they need to sell it on PC now. Funny you didn't concentrate on the part that FF sales "did not disappoint" in this new article. Contradictory to what you kept saying over and over throughout 2024:

“In terms of sales expectations, Sony held the PlayStation Partners Awards in Japan, and there was a category (Grand Award) in which they awarded the three best-selling games, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth was one of them alongside Black Myth: Wukong and Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree. So, I think being recognized in this aspect gives me the certainty that we have reached a certain level,”... "While we are confident and happy that we are reaching a certain level of sales..."

So it was a success. You've been trying to say how much of a mistake it was throughout the year and posting your "FF7 coming to xbox" threads. Except for this game this strategy is no different to what was happening before with timed exclusivity, launching on PC late and skipping xbox once again.

 

[LectureMaster]

Translated

 

[Nickolaidas]

I don't think it's a PS issue or an FF issue. I think it's a JRPG issue. JRPGs simply do not sell like they used to. How many copies do Mana games sell? Or Star Ocean ones? Or Octopath Traveller? Or Dragon Quest? Or Persona? Do these sell 10 million copies each while Rebirth struggles to sell 3 million?

I think the anime/Japan craze of the late 90s/early 00s in the West is over. They had a great run, but now they are again a 'little above niche' market once more.

 

[Chukhopops]

I’m curious how it would sell being ported on Switch 2. It might compete with a shitton of other ports including games like Metaphor, P3 Reload, Infinite Wealth etc. This may not be the goldmine SE expects it to be.

And I say that despite really liking Rebirth, the best FF game in a veeeery long time.

 

[mdkirby]

The game was mid as fuck. I’ll never understand why it was so well received. Putting it on xbox I also can’t see will have the desired effect. They’ll gain what? And extra 10% of unit sales? But also not receive the big bag of cash from Sony. Pc day 1, sure, that will likely have a decent impact, but xbox is so irrelevant for third party Japanese game sales. I guess maybe they are thinking more about switch 2.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Figure out what made your old games great first.

Make an awesome game with potential to sell well. Then make it multiplatform.

It will sell good on xbox as well if its a game players are interested in and want to play.

 

[bbeach123]

They meant switch 2 ? Because its probably gonna sell 50k on xbox.
But a sale is a sale I guess.

 

[N30RYU]

This is like the Tomb Raider being timed to Xbox... fool one side and don't pretend that coming back to that platform will grant you old sales.

I wonder if the sales they are gonna get will cover the port expenses... let's them try

More even so... thinking that they have to port the previous two entries if they even wanna have a chance

 

[Fess]

Should’ve thought about this earlier, a late release when the hype is gone won’t do much for sales numbers, unless there is some sort of exciting upgrade which seems unlikely except for the usual gfx/fps boost on PC.

 

[rofif]

if indiana jones can be a success on a dead platform (so they say)...FF on a thriving platform certainly can be too.

but do it, SE. put your games everywhere, even on IPhones.... then you will realize that the issue is the fact that you are not even a shadow of your former self and have been milking dry this IP with subpar products

Indiana Jones got the exact same ccu as forspoken and forspoken also sold better on ps5. It’s not a success.
Gp doesn’t matter.

 

[Three]

Indiana Jones got the exact same ccu as forspoken and forspoken also sold better on ps5. It’s not a success.
Gp doesn’t matter.

Hence why he says "so they say". It's funny watching some claim IJ is some success story while claiming some of the best selling PS games are failures.

 

[Astray]

The big success for Indiana Jones isn't that it's an outsized financial hit (it's selling ok, but it's not a Wukong or Helldivers 2 or even a Spider-Man 2 level of success), it's that it's keeping the IP alive to begin with.

The Indiana Jones game has vastly outperformed the latest film in terms of engagement etc with the brand, that part is an unquestionable fact imo.

So there's plenty of reason why Disney would want to have some more of those games because now they have a way to grow the brand post-Harrison Ford. And when you can target Switch 2 and PS5/6 day 1, the math starts to get a bit safer too.

 

[ArtHands]

Should’ve thought about this earlier, a late release when the hype is gone won’t do much for sales numbers, unless there is some sort of exciting upgrade which seems unlikely except for the usual gfx/fps boost on PC.

As the saying goes it is better to be late than never. But I am sure they have taken into account that this is a late port and have adjusted their expectation accordingly.

The game director of FF7 Rebirth also responded recently to a tweet stating that the game would have sell much better if it wasn’t for the exclusivity.

 

[Three]

The big success for Indiana Jones isn't that it's an outsized financial hit (it's selling ok, but it's not a Wukong or Helldivers 2 or even a Spider-Man 2 level of success), it's that it's keeping the IP alive to begin with.

The Indiana Jones game has vastly outperformed the latest film in terms of engagement etc with the brand, that part is an unquestionable fact imo.

So there's plenty of reason why Disney would want to have some more of those games because now they have a way to grow the brand post-Harrison Ford. And when you can target Switch 2 and PS5/6 day 1, the math starts to get a bit safer too.

I don’t think this engagement is as important for IJ as some think. Dial of Destiny flopped at the box office but didn't it garner 500k+ viewers on Disney+ when it hit in December? If it released on Netflix this number would be even bigger but what does it mean for IJ post Harrison Ford? Especially as these have Harrison Ford in it anyway. It doesn't mean people are willing to spend money on it. They might be interested in giving it a click for something they already pay for and is heavily marketed but how important is that to the IP?

 

[Oberstein]

The most important thing is to face the truth:

Old licenses like Final Fantasy or Tomb Raider no longer sell on a large scale. They were behemoths in our time, but the new generation doesn't give a damn. And the further along we go, the faster it accelerates.

 

[LordOcidax]

A Nintendo console about to save the Final Fantasy VII franchise…

 

[Fabieter]

Switch 2 is going to get everything. Even if it runs like shit, devs need that cash.

Totally I expect 99,9% of all Japanese games to land on switch 2 day one.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Final Fantasy games used to compete against Nintendo AAA games like 3D Mario and Zelda for the best-selling titles from Japan, but now it has regressed so much thanks to the time-exclusive approach that failed to grow the franchise further in the current generation.

Old generation
Mario 64 - 12m
Zelda OOT - 8m
FF7 - 10m

Current generation
Mario Oydssey - 28m
Zelda BOTW - 33m
Zelda TOTK - 21m
FFXVI - 3m
FF7Rebirth - 2.5m

So the problem is that the long exclusivity (FF VII - X) was better than short timed exclusivity (FF XVI and the VII remakes)?

I love people quite exclusivity as this huge problem for S-E more than how they produce, design, and sell their titles nowadays.

 

[Astray]

I don’t think this engagement is as important for IJ as some think. Dial of Destiny flopped at the box office but didn't it garner 500k+ viewers on Disney+ when it hit in December? If it released on Netflix this number would be even bigger but what does it mean for IJ post Harrison Ford? Especially as these have Harrison Ford in it anyway. It doesn't mean people are willing to spend money on it. They might be interested in giving it a click for something they already pay for and is heavily marketed but how important is that to the IP?

500k viewers is completely awful for a service that has 158m subscribers worldwide.

When I say this game is a success, I don't mean in the sense of it bringing in a lot of money, I mean in the sense of the IP getting a lifeline through the game and the engagement it got.

I can see them trying to cast Troy Baker or someone for the role now. The game showed that it's not impossible to do something Indy without Harrison.

 

[Hohenheim]

The age of exclusivity is over. This isn't the PS2 days anymore, Steam is too big to ignore and you might as well make your game for Xbox as well.

Indeed. And of course the new Nintendo console.
These obvious and sane conclusions always gets lots of laughing emojis here, because that's the only way the last standing warriors can "reply" to obvious facts.

 

[Three]

500k viewers is completely awful for a service that has 158m subscribers worldwide.

That was the amount of viewers in 3 days from release at the end of 2023. I'm sure it's much higher now. What was IJ's on gamepass in 3 days?

When I say this game is a success, I don't mean in the sense of it bringing in a lot of money, I mean in the sense of the IP getting a lifeline through the game and the engagement it got.

I can see them trying to cast Troy Baker or someone for the role now. The game showed that it's not impossible to do something Indy without Harrison.

But I don't think the IP has been given much of a lifeline here. GP subscribers will click the latest heavily marketed game release on GP but the IP itself is not the driving factor in this. This could have easily been some other IP that they sunk a lot of money into (say other dying IPs like MIB, Mission Impossible or whatever) put it on a sub and heavily marketed it and still ended up with the same result. Clicks but very little spending on the game/IP. That engagement isn't worth much at all. You spend money and release some no name IP on Netflix and push it through marketing you more often than not get a lot of viewers. Bird Box, The Irishman. those aren't massive IPs now though.

Imagine if for example FF rebirth launched on PS+. Tons of players and engagement I'm sure but what would it have meant for the IP? FF Remake came to PS+ and I'm sure that got a lot of players too but they don't necessarily translate to sales for the IP.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The game showed that it's not impossible to do something Indy without Harrison.

The Indy game where the character looks and sounds like Harrison proves that it is easy/possible to do an Indy movie without Harrison how?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

if indiana jones can be a success on a dead platform (so they say)...FF on a thriving platform certainly can be too.

but do it, SE. put your games everywhere, even on IPhones.... then you will realize that the issue is the fact that you are not even a shadow of your former self and have been milking dry this IP with subpar products

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Translation: That Sony moneyhat dried up so it makes no sense to lose money without the bribe to do so.

 

[Ozriel]

it will never cease to amuse me to see the flood of posters in these threads coming out to lecture Square Enix that ‘exclusivity isn’t the issue’.

Square seems to have made their decision. Perhaps learn to live with it?

 

[ArtHands]

I don't think it's a PS issue or an FF issue. I think it's a JRPG issue. JRPGs simply do not sell like they used to. How many copies do Mana games sell? Or Star Ocean ones? Or Octopath Traveller? Or Dragon Quest? Or Persona? Do these sell 10 million copies each while Rebirth struggles to sell 3 million?

I think the anime/Japan craze of the late 90s/early 00s in the West is over. They had a great run, but now they are again a 'little above niche' market once more.

Not really. Competitors of much lower budgets are doing well if not better. Yakuza see drastic growth after going multi-platforms. Dragon Quest III for Nintendo Switch is still (in 2nd place) on Famitsu’s sales chart with almost 900k sales, while the PS5 version isn’t even in the top 30 place anymore. Atlus’ Metaphor Refantazio is making a strong impression right now. Persona 5 Royal sold over 4m, more than FF7 Rebirth.

No RPGs were in the range of touching the FF series back in the years except probably Dragon Quest.

 

[Ozriel]

Exclusivity hasn’t hurt Mario or Zelda. It’s something else. And it isn’t PS, since games like god of war, and last of us blow past 15 million copies pre PC release.

Always these one sided arguments. I guess in the same vein, it would have been better for the IPs if Space Marine 2, Elden Ring and Black Myth Wukong were console exclusives?

Expand the player base and you sell more. It’s a simple as that. Some franchises are strong or popular enough to sell very well on a single platform. Some aren’t. Quality notwithstanding. You can make exceptions for first party games where the intent is to leverage exclusivity to sell hardware, but it’s often insane to do this as a third party developer.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

It would have probably sold better:

A) had they made these remakes 15 years ago
B) had they actually stuck to the original game's story and not added all the extraneous shit they just can't help themselves injecting

 

[PeteBull]

Switch 2 is going to get everything. Even if it runs like shit, devs need that cash.

As long as it holds relatively stable 30fps, nintendobros gonna be like:

And we even know, roughly how much of a downgrade, graphically, game gonna be since we got ff7remake ps4 vs ps5 comparisions:

 

[Astray]

The Indy game where the character looks and sounds like Harrison proves that it is easy/possible to do an Indy movie without Harrison how?

Because everyone knows that it's not actually Harrison Ford?

I honestly maintain that the Harrison Ford likeness was entirely unnecessary and the camera switches to highlight it are a detriment to the game in every way.

That was the amount of viewers in 3 days from release at the end of 2023. I'm sure it's much higher now. What was IJ's on gamepass in 3 days?

We don't know that number yet, and it's not likely to be very impressive given that MS has been mum on it.

But whatever interest this title is producing in Indy as an IP, it's almost certainly better than the film's numbers. That alone is valuable to Disney because now they can start planning for more Indy stuff (books, films, tv series, games etc), when they thought all was entirely lost when Dial of Destiny flopped.

 

[Three]

We don't know that number yet, and it's not likely to be very impressive given that MS has been mum on it.

So why is this the IP's saviour?

But whatever interest this title is producing in Indy as an IP, it's almost certainly better than the film's numbers. That alone is valuable to Disney because now they can start planning for more Indy stuff (books, films, tv series, games etc), when they thought all was entirely lost when Dial of Destiny flopped.

This I doubt because outside of subscriber clicks the interest isn't really there. I think this helps Disney's gaming ambitions in building more gaming IPs but in terms of showing more interest in the IP than the movies I don't buy. The great flop that was Indiana Jones at the box office still likely garnered just as much worthless engagement on subscriptions. Those are the quickest to die down too since the first time is a costless click through heavy marketing and later it turns into actual interest or not to waste your time on. If there is a post-Harrison Ford success story with this IP I would happily eat crow though.

 

[daxgame]

Aight, got the memo. Gonna buy this directly on switch 2 at this point since with the baby i can only play in bed at night nowadays

 

[Schmendrick]

Big budget products in a highly competitive mature market need the biggest possible audience to be financially viable.

Who'd have thought.....

 

[FreeY$L]

They’ve diluted the brand so much and are only blaming console exclusivity. When you make 2 shit titles back to back (FFXV, FFXVI), with loads of shitty titles in between, ofcourse people will be wary of your best product. Exclusivity has nothing to do with it. Many titles such as Yakuza and Persona were nurtured on playstation, Horizon and GT sell in the tens of millions.

 

[Astray]

So why is this the IP's saviour?

Because whatever you think of their market performance (it's okay imo, nowhere near the best, but not the worst either) it's the only hope they have at the moment. This is all they have to work with.

Keep in mind that hopes can be, and are frequently dashed.

This I doubt because outside of subscriber clicks the interest isn't really there. I think this helps Disney's gaming ambitions in building more gaming IPs but in terms of showing more interest in the IP than the movies I don't buy. The great flop that was Indiana Jones at the box office still likely garnered just as much worthless engagement on subscriptions. Those are the quickest to die down too since the first time is a costless click through heavy marketing and later it turns into actual interest or not to waste your time on. If there is post-Harrison ford success story with this IP I would happily eat crow though.

I think the path to recovery for this one is not very assured and is fraught with risks, but Disney has stacks of stronger IP, so they can take their time with this one.

 

[Fabieter]

Always these one sided arguments. I guess in the same vein, it would have been better for the IPs if Space Marine 2, Elden Ring and Black Myth Wukong were console exclusives?

Expand the player base and you sell more. It’s a simple as that. Some franchises are strong or popular enough to sell very well on a single platform. Some aren’t. Quality notwithstanding. You can make exceptions for first party games where the intent is to leverage exclusivity to sell hardware, but it’s often insane to do this as a third party developer.

Black myth wukong would still sell like 95% of the copies if it was exclusives to pc. For elden ring pc and PlayStation platform's would have sold almost the same ammount of copies. I dont even know what space marine sold tho.

Well one can say it's important to support pc, switch and PlayStation and for some games a mobile version. For most of the releases Xbox is just not relevant at all.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Finally.....they get that they were living in a fantasy.

Time to drop it on steam, Xbox and switch 2 day one.

There's not enough players on any single platform to cover these budgets anymore and you are actively shooting yourself in the foot missing out on day one sales from other platforms.

 

[LordOcidax]

It would have probably sold better:

A) had they made these remakes 15 years ago
B) had they actually stuck to the original game's story and not added all the extraneous shit they just can't help themselves injecting

C) Turn based

 

[Three]

Finally.....they get that they were living in a fantasy.

Time to drop it on steam, Xbox and switch 2 day one.

There's not enough players on any single platform to cover these budgets anymore and you are actively shooting yourself in the foot missing out on day one sales from other platforms.

So Machine Games are living in a fantasy too?

 

[Astray]

Well one can say it's important to support pc, switch and PlayStation and for some games a mobile version. For most of the releases Xbox is just not relevant at all.

Switch has been the huge missing link for Square particularly.

Their output is almost entirely predicated on Japanese appeal (esp after they sold Eidos), and yet they have managed to graphically exclude that platform for their biggest releases, meanwhile PS5 still isn't penetrating there and likely won't be until the handheld comes out.

Either way, their publishing strategy needs a ton of work because it's easily the worst out of any big publisher.

 

[ClanOfNone]

I coasted through the first game on a wave of Midgard nostalgia, I dropped the second game before I hit the halfway point, I won’t be buying the third installment.

Trying to stretch it out to three games was a huge mistake. Reminds me of the Hobbit movies, there just wasn’t enough material there to fill three releases and the stuff they put in to pad it out sucked.

 

[Fabieter]

Switch has been the huge missing link for Square particularly.

Their output is almost entirely predicated on Japanese appeal (esp after they sold Eidos), and yet they have managed to graphically exclude that platform for their biggest releases, meanwhile PS5 still isn't penetrating there and likely won't be until the handheld comes out.

Either way, their publishing strategy needs a ton of work because it's easily the worst out of any big publisher.

Well multiplatform games alone won't cut it. Some of those games need better quality and marketing.

They did a farming jrpg for example for pc and switch and we never heard what it sold. It's not entirely relrated to platform choices though.


Still the most important thing for sqaure enix is make sure everything is possible on switch 2. Everything else is a bonus.

 

[Astray]

Well multiplatform games alone won't cut it. Some of those games need better quality and marketing.

A hit game needs to be a hit to begin with. Palworld excluded both Switch and PS in the beginning and succeeded.

Meanwhile there are countless games that completely flopped despite being available multiplat day 1. Sometimes it's not even quality to blame either.

They did a farming jrpg for example for pc and switch and we never heard what it sold. It's not entirely relrated to platform choices though.

I remember that period, they were idiots and released like 5 JRPGs (including Harvestella) in the space of like 2-3 months.

It was obvious that most of those would fail just from the cross-cannibalization alone (1 audience being asked to buy like 5 titles at full price in 3 months).

Still the most important thing for sqaure enix is make sure everything is possible on switch 2. Everything else is a bonus.

Switch 2 is a boon because they can port more, but 1st and foremost they need to completely review their publishing strategy and pipeline.

So far they're just taking pictures with Xbox execs and calling it progress? Remarkably dumb.

 

[Fabieter]

A hit game needs to be a hit to begin with. Palworld excluded both Switch and PS in the beginning and succeeded.

Meanwhile there are countless games that completely flopped despite being available multiplat day 1. Sometimes it's not even quality to blame either.

Absolutely sometimes it's timing. Sometimes people don't like the game at release but cry years later why it didn't get any sequels (sleeping dogs). Doing the right marketing for your game is also important. With the likes for final fantasy it's also that ff 13 and ff 15 massively damaged the reputation of the franchise. I liked both games but you can't deny that both games did alot of harm. So sequels to that automatically have a harder time selling.

I remember that period, they were idiots and released like 5 JRPGs (including Harvestella) in the space of like 2-3 months.

It was obvious that most of those would fail just from the cross-cannibalization alone (1 audience being asked to buy like 5 titles at full price in 3 months).

Iam a big ass se fan and I did get most of their games eventually but their release schedule was just stupid. Totally agree.

Switch 2 is a boon because they can port more, but 1st and foremost they need to completely review their publishing strategy and pipeline.

So far they're just taking pictures with Xbox execs and calling it progress? Remarkably dumb

There was a rumor that switch 2 is getting via remake so there is hope. It's srsly all they need. I like beauty graphics but iam actually in the boat that they should focus on switch 2 hardware for all of their games and port it to Playstation and pc.

 

[Markio128]

They’ve got to do what’s best for them and I’m not going to enjoy a game less just because it’s on other platforms. I’d rather that then nothing at all.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I’m curious how it would sell being ported on Switch 2. It might compete with a shitton of other ports including games like Metaphor, P3 Reload, Infinite Wealth etc. This may not be the goldmine SE expects it to be.

And I say that despite really liking Rebirth, the best FF game in a veeeery long time.

I think Nintendo needs to encourage third parties to basically take turns with all the ports. There are enough PS4+ games to last Switch 2 an entire generation, but if they all release at once they will cannibalize each other.

Square should focus on releasing one big game each quarter on Switch 2.

 

[Bojji]

switch 2 would explode running these games.

First game is PS4 game, switch 2 is rumored to have raw PS4 power (but much more modern and with Dlss).

Rebirth looks like PS4 game (sometimes PS3), I don't see why it wouldn't run on S2 with some cuts.

 

[Fabieter]

First game is PS4 game, switch 2 is rumored to have raw PS4 power (but much more modern and with Dlss).

Rebirth looks like PS4 game (sometimes PS3), I don't see why it wouldn't run on S2 with some cuts.

There were many Switch 1 ports that many people believed were unlikely or impossible.

So yea I don't see a reason why most Japanese games won't run on s2.

 

[Naked Lunch]

Outside of Nintendo, exclusives are done.
This will be very hard for fanboys on forums like this to accept. Get over it now rather than later.

 

[ArtHands]

Some people will claim FF games are shit now as the reason for why it isn't selling well.

Despite the fact that many people lauded FF7 Rebirth as one of the best PS5 games ever released this year, GOTY nominee etc